So, what would you do?

[PapaG39]

It's May 1940 & I am in my type IID boat off the SE tip of England (Lowestoft) and there is a convoy I have been advised of. actually there is one after another.

They are generally 13 merchants escorted by 4-6 DD's & a couple of Armed Trawlers.
The weather is stinko and visibility is less then 3-400 meters.
The water is only 20-25meters deep so to be detected is to be dead...

I have tried to break into the pack, but there are just to many dd's & I can't see a thing. I have tried laying in wait for a head-on popup & shoot situation, but they (100%) turn just prior to my location. they are at 7-8 kts so I can't catch them underwater & with two DD's hanging back I can't catch them on top either...
I think this is just another GWX can't do scenarios.
Any ideas how to do this. I have tried moving my wait location several times, but no matter where I lay in wait they turn just before they get to me...only the DD's come to me...

[Capt. Shark Bait]

well, since you know they make a turn, try setting a course to a point after the turn and then intercept, unless you're already in a position that would preclude trying this:-?

[PapaG39]

yeah, I did that exact thing by moving my location. It is like they are triggered to turn just prior to where ever I am.
If I am inside they turn outside...If I am outside they turn inside.
Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this type of thing.

[andylegate]

No.........

I normally miscalculate where the convoy is going to be and end up chasing them! :nope:

I've used the tutorial on setting up intercept courses, but mine never seem to come out right. Of course normally it's heavy seas and my speed never remains constant, nor the convoy. Might be what's happening with me.

I do know the convoys preform "S" type menuvers, in a slow lazy way even when you're not detected. That could be what you're seeing. They'll all jog to port for a little bit (or starboard) and then jog in the opposite dirction. Always seems to give them a diagnal course. And messes up any long shots I'd like to take.

[U49]

I would guess it's bad luck. Since now, I have not seen such a behavior.
But asked for some idea's what to do

a) Enough fuel ? Enough nerves? Trail the convoy?
b) Attack position from front angle? Go for it on surface, fast-attack-boat style?
c) They want it the hard way? Kill the escorts! Not very stylish but gives you some satisfaction.

[KeptinCranky]

Been in this situation, just the other side of the strait...

a) NO not in a type II, same convoy same escorts, the weather can only clear up and either the escorts or a plane will spot you, you can't outrun them, not even an armed trawler, or dive properly to evade, ergo you're dead

b) Possibly, it's what I did, if you get lucky and the visibilty is real bad you might evade the escorts on the surface, but if they spot you, you're dead, like me :dead:

c) Doable, 1000 tons or so per DD, you might take out 2 or 3 that's decent tonnage in a type II, but be sure to kill your target or it will kill you.

All in all, not a good situation, radioing in the convoy won't help either in 1939, no friendlies close enough to help out.

If you do want to go for option A) try to be at least 3km out and submerged when the weather clears so you can go for long-range shots, that might work.

My choice would be to radio them in to BDU, consider your job done and wait for a lone fat merchant to take to the cleaners, in that area you won't have long to wait :D

[PapaG39]

Yeah KC...That's kinda what I came up with. I had just sunk a C3 prior to all this happening, and that was stricly luck on my part. he materilized 300m directly in front of me before I even saw him. I was all ready so I just shot two torps with a 1.5 degree spread & after a half hour he finely sank. Ha ha..even though I had been tracking & positioning myself for over an hour, when it did happen, it was a real shock to see this massive ship completely fill my whole periscope..on low power too..

I tried going directly at two different convoys & they all turned just 6 or 700 m in front of me & I never saw a thing. then I tried sitting on the bottom until they were all around me & go up & try & see something, but they turned again about 1000m prior to going over me...did that three different times in different locations.

Screw it...I'm going to stay with my tried & true sop... sit & wait for the loner. About 75% are neutrals, but that's the way it goes...However, If it's French...I sinkem anyway & take the renown hit...

[Venatore]

I think this is just another GWX can't do scenarios.
I'm sorry that you feel this way. After reading many books, I would say that this scenario would have happen many times in WW2.

Think out side the square. Think like a U-boat commander. Note the direction/speed/formation/protection/spacing that this convoy is displaying. Note it in your commander’s log; use this location as a possible engagement area to setup future attacks.

Think about the positives/negatives if you do attack, you have noted a negative already (shallow water), but don't forget you have bad weather on your side as a positive; this will make the destroyers crew very dangerous and difficult to try to engage you.

To stalk the convoy, you don't need to see them; you just need to hear them. Is stalking a option for your U-boat/crew, take into account fuel, morale and take note the convoy without knowing maybe dragging you into a more dangerous situation (the English Channel) etc.

For me I would never lay the blame on the GWX Expansion mod, I would lay the blame on English Navy for having learnt the lessons about convoy protection in the "Happy Days". England naval command are putting 1st grade officers at the helms not novices.

Don't get frustrated commander, your men are watching your every move, they are looking to you for leadership.

You asked me what I would do, I would stalk (via Hydrophones).

[KeptinCranky]

Concerning convoys turning everytime, this isn't so strange, they make a check whether they turn after a given distance (50km or so I've found), and this is generally almost the same distance you need to get back into position after you've missed them the first time because they turned....

best bet is to either engage earlier or wait out the turn at some distance ahead so you still have time to respond if they do turn

you could also engage a ship just before or after it turns, DDs will be busy herding their sheep so it's a good time to get into the convoy undetected the trouble is you may get rammed by an unsuspecting merchant, if however you manage to hit one, the convoy disintegrates completely because they all start zigzagging while turning, this is fun to watch at least once:D

one other problem with turning convoys is that some of the merchies go to ridiculous speeds to get back into position, I once had a C3 barrel along at 50 meters right in front of my boat doing 20 knots because of this. If that thing had hit me I'd be sunk.

Very disconcerting :o

[Spruence M]

Press the Attack!!!







:doh:

[desirableroasted]

In that tactical situation -- IID, <400 visibility and (especially) 25 meters depth -- I'd write it off. The risk/reward ratio is way skewed (but, then, I do play "dead is dead").

Actually, you probably won't die. What you will probably get is glimpses of ships in the fog, a couple of "snapshots" that just waste torps (they may not even have time to arm if you and the target are closing), maybe some wasted fuel evading or having to kill a destroyer (another wasted torp). If you do sink something, it will be luck, not skill.

But that's just me. I play a conservative, boring game that says every wasted eel and every fruitless sprint is just another fat cigar in Winston's pocket.

[PapaG39]

Well, after thinking about this some more I desided to give-er-a-go one more time.
The weather was good visibility with moderate waves.
I found a convoy heading south along the east shore of England. I did a long drawn out approach that got me to within 5685m of a large merchant that was on the opposite side of the two lines of ships. The nine ships of the convoy were excorted by 5 destroyers & two armed trawlers. A little over kill for 1940 me thinks.. I thought they were short of DD's at that time...
Anyway, I shot a salvo of two at the far merchant with a "zero" spread. My thinking was; if they both hit it might sink or I can come back later & finish it off...or they both miss..Then poof on it...
Danged if they didn't hit just perfect & after about 20 minutes the damned thing sank...I slunk off toward the rear (North East) from the convoy @ two kts & the dd's went to the far side to look for me...
The next two days I played hide & seek from numerous DD's/ Trawlers & lots of aircraft all trying to make my day a bad one. I almost ran out of batteries & air a couple of times, but I sunk another medium merchant & finely sunk my first Hunt I destroyer that just would not give up. I got him with my last torp at 400m...
I just can't believe I lived to fight another day...

Very exciting....

I know this is just ***A-Game*** but I was very very tense. the relief when I actually hit & blew that little bugger in two was unbelievable...I mean...It's just a game right...

[TarJak]

:yep: It is just a game. Although...:hmm: