My Complaints about SH4

[SnowCajun]

First off I love the game, but it has issues, or maybe I have issues and fail to realize it's just me... go ahead and tell me it's just me, that's okay, I won't get a complex about it I promise!

1. Have you ever shot a ship and destroyed it's propellar and rudder, I mean totally knocked it off the ship, then sit back and watch it continue to sail away at 6 knots? OMG it's a miracle! I just obliterated the ass end of a Large Modern Tanker with two torpedo hits, totally knocked off it's propellar and rudder, and then watched it sail away into the sunset while I was submerged dodging destroyers. Boooo Ubisoft!

2. Though many players play for the pure fun of searching for and sinking Japanese shipping, as do I because it's mainly all I've really read about, never the less I miss the medals and awards, things are very lacking in that area. I really feel shortchanged on the medals and don't buy their story that the medals are copyrighted and they can't use them, I've seen way too many other games use them extensively. To top it off how many times will I be awarded that equivalent to the Navy Cross and not receive any clusters to add to it, to me that's boring. I'd love to see a better example of medals for what we've achieved on our patrols. I've won many of the Navy Crosses yet if you look into my medal box there's one there.. It's the same with the others, only one there with no clusters. Boooo Ubisoft!

3. Part of a fun gaming experience is seeing your achievements, and in this I don't necessarily mean medals, I mean wouldn't it be fantastic if they gave us a battle flag designer to work on and after our return to port each time we were issued earned flags to put on our battle flag as we please, just like the real ones from real subs.. Solid centers for sinkings and hollow or white centers for damaged ships. This would really be a hoot to do, especially if they were printable, which no doubt I'd probably do and frame. I know, that sounds kid like in a way, and I'm 55 years old, but I'm really into this sub sim, especially the Pacific theatre .. I can't seem to get enough. There's zero recognition for shooting down a plane. Come on Ubisoft, wake the heck up, pay attention to the fun part of the game, or bring someone in as a consultant that understands this stuff a little better. You guys have done a good job in making the game but you seem to have missed some of the important other stuff, there's still a little more that needs to be done, and you're so close to being so great at what you have.

4. I read someone in the forums that patch 1.3 is the last we should expect from Ubisoft! I don't get it, what's with these companies that release something and forget about it? Isn't the game still being sold to the public, why forget about it like that? This product is too good to just forget about like hamburger in the freezer, it's the most fun game I've ever had, I love it, I hope that's just a fairytale that 1.3 is the last, there's still a ton of fun here that would continue to inspire people to keep buying this if they didn't sit on their thumbs!

So much for my 2 cents!
SnowCajun

[the_belgian]

quote ; "3. Part of a fun gaming experience is seeing your achievements, and in this I don't necessarily mean medals, I mean wouldn't it be fantastic if they gave us a battle flag designer to work on and after our return to port each time we were issued earned flags to put on our battle flag as we please"

you can solve it this way:

in this pic.;
3 stars for 3 completed missions
1 IJN vessel sunk
12 merchants sunk
8 planes downed

(this is a shot from an old patrol,the icons i add are smaler now)

How to add them?See;
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116029

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3696/sh4img22620071154xy8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[C DuDe]

1. Have you ever shot a ship and destroyed it's propellar and rudder, I mean totally knocked it off the ship, then sit back and watch it continue to sail away at 6 knots? OMG it's a miracle! I just obliterated the ass end of a Large Modern Tanker with two torpedo hits, totally knocked off it's propellar and rudder, and then watched it sail away into the sunset while I was submerged dodging destroyers. Boooo Ubisoft!

Are you using the NSM Mod or any Mod for that matter?

I always go (with one of the torpedoes) for a stern shot in order to cripple or at least slow the vessel down and so after evading the DD's go for the kill, I never had any vessel miraculously continue on it's course after a hit like that.

[maerean_m]

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif.
It is not fair to all those heroes to award the "real" Medal of Honour to someone who plays a game for 2 hours, in the comfort of their home.

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part.

Let's not be selfish and consider/imagine what the war was like.

But I agree on the reward for shooting down a plane etc.

[JSF]

1. Have you ever shot a ship and destroyed it's propellar and rudder, I mean totally knocked it off the ship, then sit back and watch it continue to sail away at 6 knots? OMG it's a miracle! I just obliterated the ass end of a Large Modern Tanker with two torpedo hits, totally knocked off it's propellar and rudder, and then watched it sail away into the sunset while I was submerged dodging destroyers. Boooo Ubisoft!

Are you using the NSM Mod or any Mod for that matter?

I always go (with one of the torpedoes) for a stern shot in order to cripple or at least slow the vessel down and so after evading the DD's go for the kill, I never had any vessel miraculously continue on it's course after a hit like that.

I have seen it often.....:yep:

And, it seems more frequent since the last patch......But that just maybe me.....I have switched to manual TDC and my technique needs ...well...:roll: ....a new technique....

On another note....I like what The Belgian has done to the sail in that pic.

[SnowCajun]

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country. It is not fair to all those heroes to award the "real" Medal of Honour to someone who plays a game for 2 hours, in the comfort of their home.I both respect your opinion and disagree with it at the same time. This is a simulation game, for entertainment purposes only, and I prefer realism in my games.

The people who did this in real life are my true heroes in life. Eugene Fluckey, Capt. of the USS Barb, is larger than life to me, he was always full of ideas that were way ahead of his time. To quote something Carl LaVO said about Fluckey, LaVO said that Fluckey always did his best to "overcome any obstacle, as he did in defying physicians by reversing severe near-sightedness that would have forced him to resign from the Naval Academy prior to his graduation in 1935". Isn't that amazing, totally incredible to have that much desire and drive to achieve what he wanted that he figured that out and did it himself?

I see a game like this as honoring heroes like these people, keeping their memories alive by simulating what they went through. I'm not trying to take anything from them, I want to be like them, even if it's just a simulated game. We live in an era in life where people now call sports figures heroes, or rock stars, or movie actors. I think the world has forgotten what a real hero looks like, what they did, what they endured, and that many gave their all for the cause.

Yes I enjoy this game, but had I not read about these heroes I doubt seriously I'd invest the time I do in games such as this to help remember exactly what they experienced. I see it this way, this game honors people Gene Fluckey and Dick O'Kane, or even the common crew members of boats that made it through the war and even boats that didn't and are still on eternal patrol. Our world will never be the same again, these people stood on the bow of their boats while leaving Pearl Harbor and passing all the ships sunk during the attack and they wept like babies with no shame or feelings of dishonor in their doing so because they knew it was their brothers in arms still laying dead incapsulated in those capsized ships.

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part. Let's not be selfish and consider/imagine what the war was like.People get killed in this simulation, haven't you noticed. Last time I checked with the local police killing people was illegal, are we wrong in that also. Believe it or not I've been told that before, it's wrong to simulate killing people. I swear, some people take things way overboard.

You almost offend me with your "selfish" statement to the point I almost want to say, "how dare you for suggesting I'm selfish and trying to take something without any merit". Yes it's a fact of life no two people are ever going to agree on things, but I think you went a bit overboard saying this to someone you don't know and have absolutely zero clue about my feelings towards these amazing people. I so admired Dick O'Kane that I spoke to him numerous times in the early 1980's, even his wife Ernie phoned me when Dick passed away. I would take nothing from this man, I would do nothing what-so-ever in this world to demish who he was or what he did, nor would I for Gene Fluckey or any other single soul who fought the great fight for our freedom.

In playing and enjoying this game I'm not in any form or fashion trying to compare myself to the real heroes these people were and always will be, I'm just trying to enjoy the game. I'm fascinated by what they went through, their stories are amazing to me, they all are my heroes whether they won medals or not. Every single one of them whether they were black, brown, white, or whatever color, who climbed down in one of those steel tubes for months at a time breathing stale air with so little oxygen at times they couldn't even light a match and traveled across the ocean to deliver torpedoes to Japanese shipping, they are all my heroes! Playing this game and getting awards for doing well in the game in no way at all deminishes anything they ever did, there's not a one of them alive today that I wouldn't give my life to save, nor would I hesitate to extend my hand and shake theirs gladly thanking them for what they did for me even though I wasn't born yet.

Okay I've stepped back and taken a breath or two .. guess you got me fired up. Like I said, I agree with you in one way but don't in another, but in not agreeing with me I think you overstepped your bounds with the "selfish" statement because you have no idea who I am in this world and you quite obviously don't realize that I have more respect for these heroes than I do for anyone else in the world either.

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree on point 1 and point 4. Point 1, the ship should be dead in it's tracks. Point 4, game is in a good state of playability and the modders are making it wonderful. Fixes, although I would like them, are few and minor.

[SnowCajun]

Are you using the NSM Mod or any Mod for that matter?Actually no, just playing the game straight out of the box but patched with the v1.3 patch is all. I saw this before also, I moved my camera over to the back of the ship and could see the propellor wash in the water as the ship moved on, yet when I dove the camera under the back of the ship there was no propellor there period, it'd been blown away. I guess it's just one of the oddities of the game!

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country. It is not fair to all those heroes to award the "real" Medal of Honour to someone who plays a game for 2 hours, in the comfort of their home.I both respect your opinion and disagree with it at the same time. This is a simulation game, for entertainment purposes only, and I prefer realism in my games.

The people who did this in real life are my true heroes in life. Eugene Fluckey, Capt. of the USS Barb, is larger than life to me, he was always full of ideas that were way ahead of his time. To quote something Carl LaVO said about Fluckey, LaVO said that Fluckey always did his best to "overcome any obstacle, as he did in defying physicians by reversing severe near-sightedness that would have forced him to resign from the Naval Academy prior to his graduation in 1935". Isn't that amazing, totally incredible to have that much desire and drive to achieve what he wanted that he figured that out and did it himself?

I see a game like this as honoring heroes like these people, keeping their memories alive by simulating what they went through. I'm not trying to take anything from them, I want to be like them, even if it's just a simulated game. We live in an era in life where people now call sports figures heroes, or rock stars, or movie actors. I think the world has forgotten what a real hero looks like, what they did, what they endured, and that many gave their all for the cause.

Yes I enjoy this game, but had I not read about these heroes I doubt seriously I'd invest the time I do in games such as this to help remember exactly what they experienced. I see it this way, this game honors people Gene Fluckey and Dick O'Kane, or even the common crew members of boats that made it through the war and even boats that didn't and are still on eternal patrol. Our world will never be the same again, these people stood on the bow of their boats while leaving Pearl Harbor and passing all the ships sunk during the attack and they wept like babies with no shame or feelings of dishonor in their doing so because they knew it was their brothers in arms still laying dead incapsulated in those capsized ships.

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part. Let's not be selfish and consider/imagine what the war was like.People get killed in this simulation, haven't you noticed. Last time I checked with the local police killing people was illegal, are we wrong in that also. Believe it or not I've been told that before, it's wrong to simulate killing people. I swear, some people take things way overboard.

You almost offend me with your "selfish" statement to the point I almost want to say, "how dare you for suggesting I'm selfish and trying to take something without any merit". Yes it's a fact of life no two people are ever going to agree on things, but I think you went a bit overboard saying this to someone you don't know and have absolutely zero clue about my feelings towards these amazing people. I so admired Dick O'Kane that I spoke to him numerous times in the early 1980's, even his wife Ernie phoned me when Dick passed away. I would take nothing from this man, I would do nothing what-so-ever in this world to demish who he was or what he did, nor would I for Gene Fluckey or any other single soul who fought the great fight for our freedom.

In playing and enjoying this game I'm not in any form or fashion trying to compare myself to the real heroes these people were and always will be, I'm just trying to enjoy the game. I'm fascinated by what they went through, their stories are amazing to me, they all are my heroes whether they won medals or not. Every single one of them whether they were black, brown, white, or whatever color, who climbed down in one of those steel tubes for months at a time breathing stale air with so little oxygen at times they couldn't even light a match and traveled across the ocean to deliver torpedoes to Japanese shipping, they are all my heroes! Playing this game and getting awards for doing well in the game in no way at all deminishes anything they ever did, there's not a one of them alive today that I wouldn't give my life to save, nor would I hesitate to extend my hand and shake theirs gladly thanking them for what they did for me even though I wasn't born yet.

Okay I've stepped back and taken a breath or two .. guess you got me fired up. Like I said, I agree with you in one way but don't in another, but in not agreeing with me I think you overstepped your bounds with the "selfish" statement because you have no idea who I am in this world and you quite obviously don't realize that I have more respect for these heroes than I do for anyone else in the world either.

SnowCajun
You speak to the one who was a developer of the game. Least we remember your part of the world sometimes does not view the other part of the world as the same and vise versa. As far as the Medal of Honor, being Maerean was an integral part of the development of the game and this is the way the developers in Romania feel about the medals, it is something we have to accept. Personally, the way the medals was handled is fine by me. Not a deal breaker.

[TDK1044]

1. Have you ever shot a ship and destroyed it's propellar and rudder, I mean totally knocked it off the ship, then sit back and watch it continue to sail away at 6 knots? OMG it's a miracle! I just obliterated the ass end of a Large Modern Tanker with two torpedo hits, totally knocked off it's propellar and rudder, and then watched it sail away into the sunset while I was submerged dodging destroyers. Boooo Ubisoft!


4. I read someone in the forums that patch 1.3 is the last we should expect from Ubisoft! I don't get it, what's with these companies that release something and forget about it? SnowCajun



1.I agree
4.Don't believe everything you read.

[SnowCajun]

Personally, the way the medals was handled is fine by me. Not a deal breaker.Agreed, not a deal breaker for me either, I enjoy the game very much. I think I just wanted to see some more aspects of it involved to a better standard than what I feel is rather bland as it is! I honestly think having a battle flag designer for your sub to display all your sinkings and damaged ships, as well as planes, would be a blast.

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

Personally, the way the medals was handled is fine by me. Not a deal breaker.Agreed, not a deal breaker for me either, I enjoy the game very much. I think I just wanted to see some more aspects of it involved to a better standard than what I feel is rather bland as it is! I honestly think having a battle flag designer for your sub to display all your sinkings and damaged ships, as well as planes, would be a blast.

SnowCajun
There is a mod out there for this. Quite nice. Find it over in the mod forums. To me, the SH3/SH4 part of the series is like a unfinished painting that the developers have allowed us(modders) to finish painting. Check out the mod forums...there is so many finished parts of this painting that the mods have done it is virturally a new game. Check out the new environmental reflections mod released today. There are enough mods and more to come to make the game what you want it to be. That is the beauty of SH3/SH4.

[SnowCajun]

As far as the Medal of Honor, being Maerean was an integral part of the development of the game and this is the way the developers in Romania feel about the medals, it is something we have to accept. Personally, the way the medals was handled is fine by me. Not a deal breaker.Romania or not, and game designer or not, this does not give him an excuse to lash out and at someone calling them selfish because they expressed their likes or dislikes for a game feature I'd like to see. He may well be a good programmer, but he was darned well short on manners with his response!

I can't think of anyone in this entire world who could possibly have more respect for these people who actually lived the real life version of what we've playing via this game than I do. I just felt his response was rude and totally off base, there was absolutely nothing at all that I was trying to gain merit wise by discussing my thoughts and feelings of the game medals. There was absolutely zero intentions to deminish in any way possible the value of what these fine heroes did who actually lived through, or even died during, the real thing we're now playing via Simulation.

It's only through honor and respect for them all, each and every single one, whether they're the Captain, or even a Stewards Mate which was then normally only given to blacks or other minorities, yet they all did their jobs bravely and with honor. A happy boat performed well and even a lowly stewards mate had to know how to cook well enough to keep the crew happy all the while being in equal danger of death from bombs, mines, or depth charges. The Captain may have aimed the torpedoes in most cases, but the boat functioned as a total team and they all depended on each other, Captains did not win Medals of Honor alone, it took total cooperation from all members of his crew.

For someone to suggest I would want to steal their glory or merit via a game is beyond ridiculous, it's only because of what these men did, because of who these men were, and because of what they endured and sacrificed for our freedom that I desire to play this game. They are my heroes and for someone to suggest I might have an inflated ego and be enterested in feeding off their merit just purely makes me sick. I can't even believe someone would think like that.

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part.
Although "your" is written as it is, I do not believe he was pointing you out soley. Also, "others may be doing it in their games" I believe means other companies that are using the actual medal likness in their games they created.


Please notice, he put in a bowing smiley for respect of these men and what war really is. See below:

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif.

I do not think this was a pointed attack on you but how a Romainin expresses oneself in a non-native tongue (english) just does not translate as well as one hopes. I for one would have a hell of a time getting my thoughts across in his native language. Lastly, UBI did not put in the very likness of the actual medal in respect for those that earned it with their blood. This was done out of respect. This was coming from a person in a different country to boot! If that does not speak volumns to the respect he has then I do not know what does.

[C DuDe]

I can't think of anyone in this entire world who could possibly have more respect for these people who actually lived the real life version of what we've playing via this game than I do.


:nope:

Who gave you the right..... Sorry I'm not even going to go there.

Can you please delete this from your post.

Thx.

[TDK1044]

Deep breaths all around. So much of this is subjective, and people will have different opinions. :D

[Skyhawk]

As a U.S. veteran (former Marine), I can assure you that the use of realistic names for, and images of, realworld U.S.A. military decorations in this game would in no way offend me personally, or offer disrespect to realworld heroes who have in fact earned the realworld decorations with their blood or other great personal sacrifice.

You see, this is a game. I'm certain that I don't need to call my U.S. Congressman to know that the U.S. Department of Defense and the U.S. Congress is in fact NOT issuing realworld medals to Silent Hunter 4 users. I'm also very certain, that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the difference between a game and the realworld.

Yes TDK1044, everyone should take a deep breath and relax, this is definitely a very subjective discussion and everyone will have their own opinion. With regard to the "vanilla" version of this game and "official" patches though, the only opinion that matters is the dev's. However, that doesn't make them right or wrong when deciding what "issues" should be dealt with, and which ones should be left alone. They are simply in the "driver's seat".

As a mature and intelligent adult with a moral compass, it does cause me discomfort when I read statements that are stereotyping in nature and convey a condescending attitude towards those who are meant to be on the receiving end of said statements. That's what has happened in this thread for the sake of defending a "position", and it is dead wrong no matter how it is sugar-coated.

I will leave it to each individual who views this thread to decide if I'm talking about the OP or others who have made replies in this thread. I humbly suggest that EVERYONE hold themselves to the same standard of respect and consideration they would reserve for themselves.

Just my .02. Costs the same as everyone elses. :yep: :up:

[joea]

Right on Skyhawk. :up:

[Capt. Shark Bait]

Right on Skyhawk. :up:

roger that:rock:

[Rockin Robbins]

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif.
It is not fair to all those heroes to award the "real" Medal of Honour to someone who plays a game for 2 hours, in the comfort of their home.

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part.

Let's not be selfish and consider/imagine what the war was like.

But I agree on the reward for shooting down a plane etc.

I believe it is too easy to receive the medal of honor in Silent Hunter 4. Just read the MOH citations of the sub service recipients. The point is very clear. You don't get it for doing little and risking little. The Medal of Honor should be extraordinarily difficult to receive. If anything, the developers were too generous in that regard.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

As a mature and intelligent adult with a moral compass, it does cause me discomfort when I read statements that are stereotyping in nature and convey a condescending attitude towards those who are meant to be on the receiving end of said statements. That's what has happened in this thread for the sake of defending a "position", and it is dead wrong no matter how it is sugar-coated.


Speaking of stereotypes, what's a mature and articulate person doing in the Marines? Did you accidently go in the wrong door and missed the Navy recruiting office, or did someone bundle you in whilst drunk? :hmm:

[Nats]

I cant see how winning medals in a computer game can in any way reduce the importance of winning real medals in real life. In fact it makes people who are playing the game appreciate the accomplishment even more.

I think if some made up medals were introduced then that would be a stupid idea that would downplay the actual accomplishments though. And anything that changes history for future generations (read Swastikas in SH3, Hollywood war movies etc) is very bad in my view.

Its a bloody simulation of real life history, it should show proper medals as they were in real life to be even minutely accurate. How could anyone complain at this. Bloody pussy-footing granny state mentality! Get a grip.

[Skyhawk]

FBT,

Was in the U.S.M.C., past tense. Primary MOS Deceptive Electronic Counter Measures, Cross Trained myself in Communications and Navigation Equipment. Qualified for and held CDI stamps for both DECM gear and Comm and Nav gear as an E-3. 3 meritorious promotions, 3 Meritorious Masts, 5 Letters of Commendation, 7 letters of Appreciation. GCM, ODR, Final rank E-5. 3rd MAW, MAG 16, H & M 16. El Toro ,CA.

You forgot to call me Jarhead. But technically speaking, the proper term to use is "Former Marine".

Semper Fi

[SteamWake]

4. I read someone in the forums that patch 1.3 is the last we should expect from Ubisoft!

SnowCajun

Thatll teach you to belive everything you hear in a forum :p

[Dowly]

Back in the WWII, medals were awarded to people who fought and died for their country http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/77.gif.
It is not fair to all those heroes to award the "real" Medal of Honour to someone who plays a game for 2 hours, in the comfort of their home.

Others may be doing it in their games, but that doesn't mean is ok. This is one of the problems of today's media, that it builds egos the size of a house without any real merit on "your" part.

Let's not be selfish and consider/imagine what the war was like.

Just out of interest, why are there real medals in SHIII? :hmm:

[Rockin Robbins]

Just out of interest, why are there real medals in SHIII? :hmm:

Anybody know if the same medals are still issued by the German military or did their Nazi association force them to come up with new medals? If they were discontinued and replaced, that would explain it. Otherwise I'd love to know the answer to that one, too.

[SteamWake]

Just out of interest, why are there real medals in SHIII? :hmm:

Anybody know if the same medals are still issued by the German military or did their Nazi association force them to come up with new medals? If they were discontinued and replaced, that would explain it. Otherwise I'd love to know the answer to that one, too.

Pretty sure the German's no longer use the swastika. But the iron cross :hmm:

I think the reason that they dident use 'legitimate' medals for SH4 is that the US military is still in good form and still issue these medals. Whereas the Nazi regime is dead and gone.

[Herr Karl]

Different development team also, I believe. SHIII---SHIV....

[Dowly]

Just out of interest, why are there real medals in SHIII? :hmm:
Anybody know if the same medals are still issued by the German military or did their Nazi association force them to come up with new medals? If they were discontinued and replaced, that would explain it. Otherwise I'd love to know the answer to that one, too.
Pretty sure the German's no longer use the swastika. But the iron cross :hmm:

I think the reason that they dident use 'legitimate' medals for SH4 is that the US military is still in good form and still issue these medals. Whereas the Nazi regime is dead and gone.
Yep, this was the answer I expected to get. German army is german army, no matter the party who leads the coutry. Doesnt make the german medals of the time any better or worse even if their leader was a bit of a nutjob.

If that would be the case, then all US medals would be classed as 'rubbish' for the period of time G.W.B. is in the office. :rotfl:

*Runs and hides*

[Skyhawk]

Wasn't the original reason/explanation related to copyright laws as opposed to "dev's discretion"? Or was that something that forum members here or over on the UBI forums concocted? :hmm:

I'm not trusting my memory these days (new thyroid meds and disrupted sleep patterns). . .

[Dowly]

I do remember that there was some talk about the copyrights, but like you, I cant remember whether it was a rumour or something more 'official'.

EDIT:


Guys,

Thanks for pointing out the error with the Thresher. Just a small missing h. Sorry about it, it will of course be corrected in the next patch.

As for the medals, belive me we would have liked to LEAVE the correct medals in the game. But, if the US Institute of Heraldry says we can't, I suppose we can't do it. Anyway, it was not our call, and in now way it was meant as making fun of the real awards of the US Navy.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111201&highlight=awards

[Rockin Robbins]

[
Yep, this was the answer I expected to get. German army is german army, no matter the party who leads the coutry. Doesnt make the german medals of the time any better or worse even if their leader was a bit of a nutjob.

If that would be the case, then all US medals would be classed as 'rubbish' for the period of time G.W.B. is in the office. :rotfl:

*Runs and hides*

First of all, the people in the entire world most opposed to the Nazi legacy is the Germans themselves. If the medals are not presently used it would only be be because the Germans themselves thought that the medals were then so closely associated with the Nazi regime that they could no longer morally use them. Please don't try to make me into an anti-German, because I'd have to hate my own grandfather. Since I don't plan to do that I can't be anti-German.

To use a neutral example, the song, "I'm so happy/I'm so happy/I'm so happy and gay" has been redefined, not by the intention of its author, but by the adoption of the word "gay" by a social group not considered to have a claim on that word at the time. Therefore you do not hear people using that perfectly good term today unless they are speaking about homosexuals.

I am curious as to whether the tradition of the German medals of WWII survived their bath in Nazism or not. That decision is purely up to the German people and I have nothing to say about it, even if I had an opinion. And they did change their monitary system from the Riechsmark to the Deutchesmark (sorry if the spelling is wrong) just for that reason.

As for GWB, at least he stands on principle and does not govern by the results of a moistened finger in the wind. He will be judged the modern equivalent of the Duke of York in the Napoleonic wars, but it will be awhile and probably a couple hundred thousand Americans have to die on American soil before that happens. But I am quite confident that our Islamic buddies will mistake President Hillary's forbearance for weakness and take full advantage of the opportunity for mayhem. And I expect President Hillary will then turn into the lion that GWB is not. And she will have no consideration for mercy to the innocent, I'm afraid. There is no fury like an enraged and betrayed liberal. She could well be the modern Woodrow Wilson. Enough of that. We'll see what happens and it doesn't look good.

So, what medals do the Germans use today?

[Capt. Shark Bait]

FBT,

Was in the U.S.M.C., past tense. Primary MOS Deceptive Electronic Counter Measures, Cross Trained myself in Communications and Navigation Equipment. Qualified for and held CDI stamps for both DECM gear and Comm and Nav gear as an E-3. 3 meritorious promotions, 3 Meritorious Masts, 5 Letters of Commendation, 7 letters of Appreciation. GCM, ODR, Final rank E-5. 3rd MAW, MAG 16, H & M 16. El Toro ,CA.

You forgot to call me Jarhead. But technically speaking, the proper term to use is "Former Marine".

Semper Fi

someone got read the riot act. well said, Skyhawk. we all know jarheads have atleast one brain cell;) :) .... oops, "Former Marine":)

[SnowCajun]

Wasn't the original reason/explanation related to copyright laws as opposed to "dev's discretion"?I think the first thing I ever saw said it was because copyright laws wouldn't allow it. I don't totally buy this though, other games use them. Never the less it's not so much the medals is there's no show of additional medals won, as per clusters or stars added to the ribbons for each additional medal you win. I just thought it'd be nice to look at.

I still would prefer a built in battle flag generator that gave you your boat's insignia and let you place your flags for sinkings and damages on it as you please. To me that'd be tons of fun. So much for entertaining a 55 year old man.. bah....

Cya,
SnowCajun

[FIREWALL]

Am I missing something ? There's already a mod out that changes medals. It's been out for quite awhile.

I'll be back in a few minutes with the name and discription.

[elanaiba]

The reason for the medals being different from the real ones is the one I stated before.

Other games use them? Yes, perhaps. I can argue about it forever and I did. But if someone in legal says you definetly got to change the medals, you do it.

My (and our, speaking for the design team) desire to have the real medals portrayed in the game comes from the idea that we're portraying a part of history. I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

I can understand Mihai's argumentation. However, it was simply not the case.

[Dowly]

Okie dokie ;)

[Capt. Shark Bait]

it called Real Medals v1.01. can't find it in the mods list ,tho:-?

[AVGWarhawk]

The reason for the medals being different from the real ones is the one I stated before.

Other games use them? Yes, perhaps. I can argue about it forever and I did. But if someone in legal says you definetly got to change the medals, you do it.

My (and our, speaking for the design team) desire to have the real medals portrayed in the game comes from the idea that we're portraying a part of history. I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

I can understand Mihai's argumentation. However, it was simply not the case.

Looks like a good answer to me.

[SnowCajun]

I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.Uh ... that would be kinda like ... INSANE ... to think that, now wouldn't it?

I believe we play these games because of what those real people who were actually there endured during this time in history, having not been born back then it's our only way of reliving some of what they saw and did during the war in these boats. They showed us what true heroism actually was all about and we get to experience a little of what it was like by playing this game, and please pay attention to the fact that I called it a "GAME"!

I'm sorry but your response in this manner really caught me off guard suggesting that anyone might seriously be thinking they're really getting real medals, I would have never believed anyone would have thought that. This is a game, it's so far from real life that it's not even funny. We play a patrol in an hour or two.. maybe more, sitting here in our airconditioned homes with fresh air and no threats of bombs, depth charges, or mines. They were out often over a month or more sometimes running more hours than we want to realize having their airconditioning, if they were lucky enough to have one, shut down .. and having been underwater so long they couldn't even light a match due to lack of oxygen. I'm sure their jobs were somewhat like police officers often describe theirs to be, "tons of hours of filled with boredom interupted now and then only by moments of sheer terror!" They didn't have a "save game" feature to restart when they screwed up like we do.

When we play this game we expect the sim submarines to be historically accurate, at least as far as the programmers can make them with their abilities, but I've never felt like I was actually out in the real world sinking tons of shipping and killing real people, so why would anyone suggest I'd feel like I was really winning real medals? Geeez man, that's so absurd! I can't even believe that anyone would really and truly think such a thing ... omg .. tell me you don't seriously believe that people think that?

SnowCajun

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by elanaiba
I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.

Uh ... that would be kinda like ... INSANE ... to think that, now wouldn't it?
These days I would believe anything. I have seen a few on the edge.

I believe we play these games because of what those real people who were actually there endured during this time in history, having not been born back then it's our only way of reliving some of what they saw and did during the war in these boats. They showed us what true heroism actually was all about and we get to experience a little of what it was like by playing this game, and please pay attention to the fact that I called it a "GAME"!
Not all play it for this reason. Try Uberboot mod. Bang bang shoot'em up type mod. Each have their reasons but I would say by and large on this statement, you are correct. True I like the game for what you stated above but I also like the strategy as well.

I'm sorry but your response in this manner really caught me off guard suggesting that anyone might seriously be thinking they're really getting real medals, I would have never believed anyone would have thought that. This is a game, it's so far from real life that it's not even funny. We play a patrol in an hour or two.. maybe more, sitting here in our airconditioned homes with fresh air and no threats of bombs, depth charges, or mines. They were out often over a month or more sometimes running more hours than we want to realize having their airconditioning, if they were lucky enough to have one, shut down .. and having been underwater so long they couldn't even light a match due to lack of oxygen. I'm sure their jobs were somewhat like police officers often describe theirs to be, "tons of hours of filled with boredom interupted now and then only by moments of sheer terror!" They didn't have a "save game" feature to restart when they screwed up like we do.

If this is all true, why do I have a red light on when I play at night time? When I'm surfaced I have water misted through a fan into my face? Why do I not shower for weeks at time? Why do I work only 4 hours and the rest of the time is for submarine study, sleeping and eating? Why are my work hours from 0100 to 0500? Maybe it is just me:hmm:

When we play this game we expect the sim submarines to be historically accurate, at least as far as the programmers can make them with their abilities, but I've never felt like I was actually out in the real world sinking tons of shipping and killing real people, so why would anyone suggest I'd feel like I was really winning real medals? Geeez man, that's so absurd! I can't even believe that anyone would really and truly think such a thing ... omg .. tell me you don't seriously believe that people think that?

SnowCajun

Here is the issue with the above statement, not all who play this game are looking for it be to historically accurate. Again, there are a large group who like bang bang shoot'em up. With that in mind, there is a fine line the developers have to meet for those who are hardcore and the casual bang bang shoot'em up players. OK, he might have been out on a limb with the real medals deal but if you read what he wrote the boys in the legals depart squashed that idea. Also, perhaps he did not word his thought in writing the way it should have been. As far as people getting lost in games, look around you, I have seen it! How many fans get engrossed in movies? For example: Star Wars, Star Trek, Harry Potter. Seen any fans dressing up? Starting clubs with roll playing games? I'm sure you have. So, perhaps his thought was not as far fetched as you think.

[elanaiba]

Uhm,

I was mostly responsing to Mihai (Maerean) and his theory on medals and games. I would find it absurd too that someone would feel he's earning a real medal in a game. But then, people might think they are ace fighter pilots when dominating the skies in IL-2. They do have some skills that apply in real life, of course, but is it enough? Not.

Veterans and submariners alike might feel annoyed when hearing a kid boast proudly about "sinking the Yamato, getting a CMOH, tottaling double the tonnage of the leading US submarine ace". But for adults, I think it couldn't happen and therefore I feel the concern about degrading the medals significance is unwarranted.

[SilentOtto]

Something I hate because it gets in the way all the time, is measurement system inconsistency. It really bothers me having all distances to ships expressed in feet. I had never seen that before, as far as I know feet are only used for height or depth but not for horizontal distances, yards would fit there I suppose. And it's terrible having to convert feet into yards and then into nautical miles in order to plot distances or just get situation awareness... Feet in TBT, periscopes, and WO reports, miles in the charts... It's a painful conversion when you are into an attack! (And more so for a metric minded individual as I am). Can this be modded out? I hope it will...

I also hate not being able to turn off the darn SD apparatus when we are on friendly waters... bummer. Having it working the original way, with rough distance and no bearing would be good (and its on-off switch please!!!)

What I hate mostly is not having a bigger display, but thats not SH4's fault!

Apart from that and something else I sure forget, I'm basically addicted to the pacific , even though I'm a long time hardcore atlantischer! So hooray on that!

[tater]

Right now my "complaint" is not understanding what these values do (after a frightening number of hours testing different values and getting DCed):

Fall speed = drop rate in meters per second I assume.

Detonate_depth = ? It's not a max depth, and I can set to to a certain value with the following Depth_precision number set to "1" and they still fall at every possible depth.

Depth_precision= a “slop factor” around “Detonate_Depth?" Or is it a slop factor on the aim depth? Or is it the settings allowed on the DCs? (RL IJN Type 95 DCs had only 2 settings, 30m, or 60m to explode, for example)

<G>

tater

[tater]

Asking an easy to answer question sure quiets things up, don't it ;)

tater

[Skyhawk]

yup, and sometimes things just quiet up on their own because people grow tired of doing this:

:damn:


;)

[maerean_m]

It really bothers me having all distances to ships expressed in feet. I had never seen that before, as far as I know feet are only used for height or depth but not for horizontal distances, yards would fit there I suppose.

Can you, please, be more specific? Where (what station) does the game display "horizontal" distances in feet? (because it shouldn't)

[tater]

Yeah, I haven't seen feet at all.

tater

[SilentOtto]

It really bothers me having all distances to ships expressed in feet. I had never seen that before, as far as I know feet are only used for height or depth but not for horizontal distances, yards would fit there I suppose.
Can you, please, be more specific? Where (what station) does the game display "horizontal" distances in feet? (because it shouldn't)

Yes I was not too exact here, late at night and youknowwhat.

Where I get distances in feet, is when I ask WO or crew for a distance estimate to another vessel. How can it be the WO gives feet distance indications??
But yes then TBT and peri ranges are in yards.

[elanaiba]

Asking an easy to answer question sure quiets things up, don't it ;)

tater

Tater, you know better than this :P Let us sleep during the night, at least when we're not pushing for release day.

I had a quick look in the code (mind you, I'm just a bystander with code, being a designer, and this design predates my arrival in sh3).

fall speed = drop rate in meters per second I assume. CORRECT

Detonate_depth = the default depth at which the DC will detonate. This is normally overwritten by the AI to the player's perceived depth (err, exact depth).

Depth_precision= the detonate depth value is altered by a random value between + depth precision and - depth precision.

There are some other factors involved, but basically there you have it.

[tater]

Heheh. Was just giving you a hard time :D

Thanks for the answer.

That's what I was afraid of. The precision is off the aim point.

Is there any way to force the DC to go off at the detonation depth instead of allowing it to be overwritten?

I was hoping that by making some new DCs and racks I could have early war versions that only detonated at either 30m or 60m (the ash can had 2 settings).

I had tried a detonation depth of 45m, with the precision set to 15m hoping that all the DCs would explode between 30 and 60m, for example. Then when the type 95 got a 90m setting, I'd change it to detonate at 60m +-30 so they'd all explode between 30 and 90m.

Next experiment will alter the AI setting and see at what point it gets overwritten.

The problem with the way it works is that of you set the precision to get a wide range, the ASW assets will blow their own sterns off if you are shallow in your sub. In effect, it makes the precision control somewhat useless, and the detonation depth seems to always be overwritten by the AI.

So I can make new DCs, but they all have to be super accurate in depth, and none can have a max depth.

Too bad you guys aren't in the States, I'd send your office a few pizzas.

<S>

tater

[tater]

"Competent" AI seems to still hit where they aim (+- precision), not the sim file detonation depth value. I can't really set warships much below that or they won't even be able to hit you on the surface.

That detonation depth value would be more useful if it was a max depth and any DC that gets to that value blows up, aimed deeper or not.

Then we could set early war DCs for 60m, later type 95s for 90m, and let the Type 2 DCs (used in 1943+) go really deep.

While that would make play much easier in deep water, there is rather a lot of the SH4 world where 90m+ would be a luxury.

tater

[aanker]

This is normally overwritten by the AI
Ah-ha! This probably explains my lack of success on another - completely different - 'realism' problem I have been working on for several weeks. Guess I can give give up now... lol

Art
CO USS Pequod

[XLjedi]

I honestly think having a battle flag designer for your sub to display all your sinkings and damaged ships, as well as planes, would be a blast.


If by "Battle Flag" builder you mean...

Something that would update your boat skin image (as posted in an example above) and maybe give you the option to printout a flag-ish image or maybe a graphic suitable for a forum signature, or something like that.

Have you given any thought to maybe creating an application to do that yourself? (...or maybe just photo-shopping it?)

[ReallyDedPoet]

I honestly think having a battle flag designer for your sub to display all your sinkings and damaged ships, as well as planes, would be a blast.

If by "Battle Flag" builder you mean...

Something that would update your boat skin image (as posted in an example above) and maybe give you the option to printout a flag-ish image or maybe a graphic suitable for a forum signature, or something like that.

Have you given any thought to maybe creating an application to do that yourself? (...or maybe just photo-shopping it?)

Already done: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121745&highlight=battle+flags

From that thread.

http://www.compuglobalhypermeganet.tv/images/sh4/skins/WP3%201942.jpg


RDP

[XLjedi]

Already done: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121745&highlight=battle+flags
RDP

Well, see, there ya go.
Stuff all looks pretty good too!

[ReallyDedPoet]

Already done: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=121745&highlight=battle+flags
RDP
Well, see, there ya go.
Stuff all looks pretty good too!

Yeah, sqk7744 has done a nice job with this one :yep:


RDP

[elanaiba]

"Competent" AI seems to still hit where they aim (+- precision), not the sim file detonation depth value. I can't really set warships much below that or they won't even be able to hit you on the surface.

That detonation depth value would be more useful if it was a max depth and any DC that gets to that value blows up, aimed deeper or not.

Then we could set early war DCs for 60m, later type 95s for 90m, and let the Type 2 DCs (used in 1943+) go really deep.

While that would make play much easier in deep water, there is rather a lot of the SH4 world where 90m+ would be a luxury.

tater


As I said, there are other factors involved. For example, allied escorts won't drop DCs deeper than 100m till the start of 42 (U-570 was captured in August 41 and starting from September it was used in British service as HMS Graph).

[Weigh-Man]

I sincerely hope that no one thinks he has really achieved a real award by playing the game.Uh ... that would be kinda like ... INSANE ... to think that, now wouldn't it?

I believe we play these games because of what those real people who were actually there endured during this time in history, having not been born back then it's our only way of reliving some of what they saw and did during the war in these boats. They showed us what true heroism actually was all about and we get to experience a little of what it was like by playing this game, and please pay attention to the fact that I called it a "GAME"!

I'm sorry but your response in this manner really caught me off guard suggesting that anyone might seriously be thinking they're really getting real medals, I would have never believed anyone would have thought that. This is a game, it's so far from real life that it's not even funny. We play a patrol in an hour or two.. maybe more, sitting here in our airconditioned homes with fresh air and no threats of bombs, depth charges, or mines. They were out often over a month or more sometimes running more hours than we want to realize having their airconditioning, if they were lucky enough to have one, shut down .. and having been underwater so long they couldn't even light a match due to lack of oxygen. I'm sure their jobs were somewhat like police officers often describe theirs to be, "tons of hours of filled with boredom interupted now and then only by moments of sheer terror!" They didn't have a "save game" feature to restart when they screwed up like we do.

When we play this game we expect the sim submarines to be historically accurate, at least as far as the programmers can make them with their abilities, but I've never felt like I was actually out in the real world sinking tons of shipping and killing real people, so why would anyone suggest I'd feel like I was really winning real medals? Geeez man, that's so absurd! I can't even believe that anyone would really and truly think such a thing ... omg .. tell me you don't seriously believe that people think that?

SnowCajun

Nice attitude, do you know who you are talking too?

[TDK1044]

I think Silent Hunter 4 (1.3) is a really great sim which when modded to taste offers an immersive game play experience on many levels. It can never be all things to all people. These Devs have done an awesome job in my view in offering a quality game which is very modable. I think we should thank them for the many long days they put in and not nit pick about medals. :D

[ReallyDedPoet]

The game offers a great experience, we are lucky to have a game that can be twisted inside out to meet ones taste, be it though game options or mods.

And it is still only 6 months old :yep:


RDP

[tater]

As I said, there are other factors involved. For example, allied escorts won't drop DCs deeper than 100m till the start of 42 (U-570 was captured in August 41 and starting from September it was used in British service as HMS Graph).

Course the IJN shouldn't be dropping deeper than 60m (their Type 95 DCs only had 2 depth settings, 30m, or 60m) until after June, 1943. Wish whatever the date setting for the US DCs was could be reapplied to the IJN ones...

I assume the "other factors" are outside of modding control, huh?

tater