View Full Version : UK approves Human Animal Hybrid clones - genetic engineering
SUBMAN1
09-19-07, 01:27 PM
Am I the only person here that has a problem with this? This is a sicko idea. They say that they have to be destroyed after 15 days, but this will only hold until the genetic engineering industry beats you down and continues to beat you down until you conceed to let one go to term! This is the same strategy they used to get UK law makers to agree to allow them to do their experimentation in the first place, and it will be used again to allow them to go the full 9 months! This is a dangerous precident in my book:
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1564
I better steal a page out of Avon Lady's handbook for this thread since if I don't post this link, she eventually will:
http://www.bartleby.com/1001/ - The Island of Doctor Moreau
It is apparent that your forefathers would have been appaled by such abonimations as evident in HG Wells book, but for some reason, the UK is now embracing these ideas. Two words - Moral decline.
-S
http://www.lovefilm.com/lovefilm/images/products/0/2020-large.jpg
To late the Daleks did it when they created pig men slaves, Dr Who.
Alright thats sci fi so back in the real world are we slowly crossing the line in to a nightmare world?
The answer has to be yes. :nope:
I don't see why this is a bad thing.
If it saves one life it will certinaly be a good thing, but I don't see that it eeven needs to achive that to be justifyed.
SUBMAN1
09-19-07, 01:55 PM
I don't see why this is a bad thing.
But we all expected that answer from you, so are we supposed to be surprised? :D
-S
Skybird
09-19-07, 04:49 PM
Am I the only person here that has a problem with this?
No. very big problems over here. I cannot see man having the maturity and sense of responsebility to deal with this and handle this power in a responsible way.
SUBMAN1
09-19-07, 04:53 PM
Am I the only person here that has a problem with this? No. very big problems over here. I cannot see man having the maturity and sense of responsebility to deal with this and handle this power in a responsible way.
My point exactly - totally agree. These guys will push this to the limit. They just need time to break down the 14 day barrier before they have to destroy their creation.
What make it even worse - I found the percentages for their creatures - they will be 99% man, 1% animal. Seems to me, they are experimenting on people but calling it a hybrid because it has a tiny amount of animal in it. Sick.
-S
Skybird
09-19-07, 05:17 PM
In the wake of the bike doping scandals, they have reported a lot about genetic dopig. I means that the very genes of the athlete himself get manipulated to produce certain substances that replace those that before were taken in via needles or pills. Currently, such way of dpong cannot be scanned in any way, and thus genetic doping is the future trend. Obviously there are some eager dumbheads willing to accept the health risks from their body prudcing these unnatural substances, or unnormal doses of natural substances for the rest of their lives. We had several doped-to-death bike-dumbheads in the past years, right?
If this is possible, you can imagine what man will do with the ability to breed hybrids. where abuse is possible, it will happen, massively and them more the higher the profits are. What laws have to say on it will be totally unimportant. Refering to tight laws in naive.
Olympics in 2020 will be conducted by Zentaurs and men with Wings... :lol:
Kapitan_Phillips
09-19-07, 05:20 PM
Heh, so does this mean we can make burgers outta humans now? :D
Skybird
09-19-07, 05:24 PM
Heh, so does this mean we can make burgers outta humans now? :D
"One Hotkerry, please!"
I don't see why this is a bad thing.
If it saves one life it will certinaly be a good thing, but I don't see that it eeven needs to achive that to be justifyed.
Yeah, seriously. It's not like scientists are out to create living human-animal hybrids - I can't see any practical applications coming out of that and I certainly don't think the ethics that govern science allow for that variety of experiment. This is a way instead to circumvent the religious arguments against using human embryonic stem cells by taking an animal embryonic stem cell, replacing its nucleus with that of a living human's. Presto: human, undifferentiated, embryonic stem cell, eventually to become Schwann cells, muscle tissue, a heart chamber, or whatever.
Some you you say it is immoral, but why do you think it is immoral? Who is it hurting?
I can't see any practical applications coming out of that.
Well, someone funding this certinaly can!
I can't see the practical application of the new partical accelerator in Europe, but I am assured there are many.
Im not saying one should trust everyones motives blindly, but one should not assume they are not good with out reason.
Some you you say it is immoral, but why do you think it is immoral? Who is it hurting?
I can't see any practical applications coming out of that.
Well, someone funding this certinaly can!
I can't see the practical application of the new partical accelerator in Europe, but I am assured there are many.
Im not saying one should trust everyones motives blindly, but one should not assume they are not good with out reason.
I just want to clarify that when I say "out of that" I meant out of creating the walking, breathing, human-cow hybrids that we all have nightmares about - if it's even possible. Unless I was Mengele, I couldn't see a purpose in doing that, but I understand your point.
SUBMAN1
09-19-07, 06:50 PM
Some you you say it is immoral, but why do you think it is immoral? Who is it hurting?
Let's see, the retarded kid down the street, we can take his body parts and kill him since he doesn't know hats going on now can we? Same thing going on here. Its crossed a line when human embryos that are 99% human, but are not looked at as fully human because they added a mouse tail to it making it 1% mouse.
I can't see any practical applications coming out of that. Well, someone funding this certinaly can!
I can't see the practical application of the new partical accelerator in Europe, but I am assured there are many.
Im not saying one should trust everyones motives blindly, but one should not assume they are not good with out reason.
When you crossed the moral line, then you should look at it from a half empty perspective - You should assume not good until proven otherwise. This is the problem with scientists - they cannot be trsuted to uphold moral boundaries in the face of their relentless research.
-S
Some you you say it is immoral, but why do you think it is immoral? Who is it hurting?
Let's see, the retarded kid down the street, we can take his body parts and kill him since he doesn't know hats going on now can we? Same thing going on here. Its crossed a line when human embryos that are 99% human, but are not looked at as fully human because they added a mouse tail to it making it 1% mouse.
Well, yes, you can do what you like to the "reatrdedreatrded kid" as long as it is only a group of a few thousand cells weather he is 100% mouse or 0% mouse.
Where you around a few hundred years ago I wonder if you would be amongst those protesting against human autopsy.:down:
Spruence M
09-20-07, 12:01 AM
What....... The....... ****.......
:x :o :x :o :x
The Avon Lady
09-20-07, 02:22 AM
YOU'VE BEEN WARNED!
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8530/ahmadinejhad8hg.jpg
Tchocky
09-20-07, 03:35 AM
I see Cosmos gave into temptation, "Human-Animal Hybrids!!" instead of "human-animal hybrid embryos"
The Avon Lady
09-20-07, 03:39 AM
I see Cosmos gave into temptation, "Human-Animal Hybrids!!" instead of "human-animal hybrid embryos"
All you need is one "Boys from Brazil" Mengele wannabee sneaking a test tube out of the lab one night............................
Just being creative. :|\\
;)
Tchocky
09-20-07, 03:43 AM
...starring Matt Damon. Only in theatres*
*read - Straight to video
Skybird
09-20-07, 05:54 AM
When does a human become a human? How many cycles of cell division must the egg go through, before a still relatively unstructured bunch of cellular mass turns into a "human"? If you believe that their is a collective or even an individual soul - when is this cellular mass starting to become part of it? When is soul entering the matter? Or is soul matter, matter is soul? What? you do not think that there is a soul, or that there is more in life in general and humans in special than some billion cells that interact for a limited time and then fall apart again? I see. It's clear, if a human is not seen as being more than just 70 kg of flesh with a function cycle of 78 years, then one must not care for uncomfortable questions about wether manipulation of the human genome and the breeding of human (sorry I forgot, they are not human) embryos for laboratory purposes can ethically be justified. Where you do not see mind, you are left only with the matter.
Also ignore that more and more evolutionary benefits from certain genetic "defects" and gene-related disease get discovered and understood, as i just have posted in a thread maybe two weeks ago. the defects you repair - may be the caused that mankind in the future will be prevented from adapting to a certain critical variable in the future. Can you forsee it? Do you know and throughly understand all the many different variables, interactions, interdependencies, two sides of one and the same coin?
I am not surprised that it is the social and political left that does not care so much in Europe for these questions, like they do not care for their historical identity, they also do not care philosophical problems like this. companies don't do it anyway, materialist as their orientation is.
It depends on wether you see life in general and humans in special as inspired beings, or as soul-less machinery only. but if the first: you need to answer when humans become to be humans. From the first cell on? From the stadium of the foetus on? from the first billion cells on? From the moment you detect the first electric brain potentials? and if that: why do you know that soul means brain? Or is what you consider to be "soul" already there even before the egg if fertilised?
You do not have an idea, you do not care? Heaven help us against you messing around with genes and embryos.
I personally oppose abortion accept under certain medical circumstances, although I do not accept to criminalise it, put it under penalty, and demonise women using it. the act itself has a bad side for the woman in question, and often is opted for for reasons of lacking education and information, and false belief of having no other choice. despair almost always is part of it, and such a woman does not deserve hate by pseudo-"Christian" fundamentalists, but deserves compassion, assistance and better information. There should be the legal possibility to give the baby away and available for adoption, and there should be the needed economical support for the mother to help her through those nine months. Then there would be no need to abort, the experience of pregnancy may also change her mind in that time. also, there are tens of thousands of couples, numbers growing, who can't have children of their own, and would like to adopt a baby. And you must not travel around the globe like stupid Madonna to find the one that fits you "perfectly", nor is it desirable to let DNA-designer create your perfect baby for you. - From this perspective, I also oppose the abuse of human embryos, which means nothing else than to intentionally breed human babies, interrupt the process and kill them to gain material for laboratory procedures. both in the case of abortion, and in the case discussed in this thread, you start and you end with this single question: when does a human start to be human?
And consider this: would you like to explain your growing boy one day why you and your partner created a sister/brother for him and hen killed him, so that he himself can live? How do you think he will feel about this for the rest of his life?
Genetic research can be of benefits, yes. But if it is done in a climate of materialism and business atmosphere, and not more, than the risk is extremely high that it turns in nothing else but the worst crime of mankind. The Nazis gave you a foretaste of things to come. Sciences without compassion and respect for life, and sense of responsibility - means the ultimate fall of what makes man "human".
Zayphod
09-20-07, 09:14 AM
To late the Daleks did it when they created pig men slaves, Dr Who.
Alright thats sci fi so back in the real world are we slowly crossing the line in to a nightmare world?
The answer has to be yes. :nope:
On the other hand: We'll finally get all those cute girls with cat ears we always see in Anime cartoons.
To late the Daleks did it when they created pig men slaves, Dr Who.
Alright thats sci fi so back in the real world are we slowly crossing the line in to a nightmare world?
The answer has to be yes. :nope:
On the other hand: We'll finally get all those cute girls with cat ears we always see in Anime cartoons.
What ever floats your boat!
:hmm:
http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs17/f/2007/207/b/a/Mandy_and_Scarlet_by_jollyjack.jpg
antikristuseke
09-20-07, 12:45 PM
When you crossed the moral line, then you should look at it from a half empty perspective - You should assume not good until proven otherwise. This is the problem with scientists - they cannot be trsuted to uphold moral boundaries in the face of their relentless research.
-S
You speak as if morality was a constant, its not, it is an entirely subjective mater. I dont see any morality issue with this. Allso noone should ever assume something is bad untill it is proven otherways, you should allwasy concider things neutral untill it has been proven to be otherways.
When you crossed the moral line, then you should look at it from a half empty perspective - You should assume not good until proven otherwise. This is the problem with scientists - they cannot be trsuted to uphold moral boundaries in the face of their relentless research.
-S
You speak as if morality was a constant, its not, it is an entirely subjective mater. I dont see any morality issue with this. Allso noone should ever assume something is bad untill it is proven otherways, you should allwasy concider things neutral untill it has been proven to be otherways.
A little contradictory there.
You can not prove the subjective. ;)
To late the Daleks did it when they created pig men slaves, Dr Who.
Alright thats sci fi so back in the real world are we slowly crossing the line in to a nightmare world?
The answer has to be yes. :nope:
On the other hand: We'll finally get all those cute girls with cat ears we always see in Anime cartoons.
Now I am worried. :lol:
antikristuseke
09-20-07, 01:22 PM
A little contradictory there.
You can not prove the subjective. ;)
Exactly what is contradictory about my post? I did'nt say that morality could be proven to be good or bad, all I said about morality was that it was subjective.
The next sentence was in reply to having to assume something, like a new technology or avenue of research etc., to be bad untill proven good, which i dont agree with. Rather you shouldnt assume something to be either bad or good untill it has been proven to one of those options or if it simply depends on its implementation/usage.
Exactly what is contradictory about my post? "Bad" and "good" are moral
conclusions.
You said that, "You speak as if morality was a constant, its not, it is an entirely
subjective mater"
Therefore as you take morality as subjective; you must also take moral conclusions
such as "bad" or "good" to be equally subjective.
However, you later say, "noone should ever assume something is bad untill it is proven
otherways". Thus lays the contradiction:As you take the terms "bad" and "good" to be
subjective then they can not be "proven otherways [otherwise?]" as it is impossible to
prove a subjective point.
Btw, if you are using IE or firefox you may wish to get a copy of "google toolbar" it has
a spell checker that you may find very useful.
antikristuseke
09-20-07, 02:48 PM
Ah now i see what you mean, good point.
As for browsers im using Opera, I'm aware that i make quite a few spelling errors, but msot of them are due to typos. But meh, I can allways use the age old "english is not my primary language excuse"
Ah now i see what you mean, good point.
As for browsers im using Opera, I'm aware that i make quite a few spelling errors, but msot of them are due to typos. But meh, I can allways use the age old "english is not my primary language excuse"
Ahh, don't worry. Your English seams to be good. I am always amazed at the standard of English in other countries, it puts schools in England to shame!
I think it's scary stuff. What scares me most is not the potential effects it might have on tomorrow's athletes but the implications it may have for future generations of soldiers.
LtCmdrRat
09-25-07, 11:19 AM
A human civilization deserves another asteroid impact...
Divided by religious sects, trying to destroy sapiens part of its own definition.
Humanity is deserved to be genetecally changed... We are destroying our own planet, instead of using atomic energy we use ... oil because its so profitable. We afraid of genetics experiments just because "my momma told so". We elect stupid leaders and we fighting the war with ghost that was given politically correct name islamofascists instead of ISLAM ideology.... We so politally correct people that even been raped by an alien we described him as "strange but nice creature". We read less and less books, we watch more TV with stupid shows and almost zero education programms, we are afraid of even thinking.
Why CEO guys got annually hundreds of thousands even millions but EMT paramedic or construction worker got annual salary CEO got for a week?
Yes, Everything what you read above just pointless, but my dear CEO when you got free time to play with your kids or just look at the stars?
Genetical engineering can help to cure a lot of deceases. You are afraid of possibility of creating human monsters? Just prohibit it but allow science to step forward.
Mc Donalds making monsters from humans every day and what?
Some Idiots needs to have a sign on a cup of coffee or tea shows that it is "HOT!!!"
Boring HS students shots their classmates just because" its cool" or" i am so depressed".This depression can be easily cured by belt in the childhood.
We are afraid of possibility to meet a better human being and we are jealous. Why I am said "better human " because it is impossible to be worser.
A human civilization deserves another asteroid impact...
Divided by religious sects, trying to destroy sapiens part of its own definition.
Humanity is deserved to be genetecally changed... We are destroying our own planet, instead of using atomic energy we use ... oil because its so profitable. We afraid of genetics experiments just because "my momma told so". We elect stupid leaders and we fighting the war with ghost that was given politically correct name islamofascists instead of ISLAM ideology.... We so politally correct people that even been raped by an alien we described him as "strange but nice creature". We read less and less books, we watch more TV with stupid shows and almost zero education programms, we are afraid of even thinking.
Why CEO guys got annually hundreds of thousands even millions but EMT paramedic or construction worker got annual salary CEO got for a week?
Yes, Everything what you read above just pointless, but my dear CEO when you got free time to play with your kids or just look at the stars?
Genetical engineering can help to cure a lot of deceases. You are afraid of possibility of creating human monsters? Just prohibit it but allow science to step forward.
Mc Donalds making monsters from humans every day and what?
Some Idiots needs to have a sign on a cup of coffee or tea shows that it is "HOT!!!"
Boring HS students shots their classmates just because" its cool" or" i am so depressed".This depression can be easily cured by belt in the childhood.
We are afraid of possibility to meet a better human being and we are jealous. Why I am said "better human " because it is impossible to be worser.
heh...right wing rant of the day.
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