Hillary forcing people to pay for health insurance before you can work?

[SUBMAN1]

These are the very people that can't afford to purchase it anyway!!! This places the burden on the employee, not the employer! How much crack is she smoking???

-S

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070918/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_ap_interview_6

[STEED]

A woman in the White House who is a clinton never happen chill out. ;)

That's like saying David Cameron leader of the Conservatives will be our next Prime Minister. :rotfl:

F.A.O
Dave

Your down to 30% and you dave are now behind ming in popularity, to sum up your a running joke. :lol: :rotfl: :lol: :rotfl: :lol:

[The Avon Lady]

The doctor will see you now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNY4gfSPRts).

[Skybird]

Cool down, it'S in principle the same way in Europe, and I don't argue with it. Principle obligatory health insurances is one of the things I do not complain about. But since you Americans are new to implement it, you better take care you do not repeat the same mistakes we Europeans allowed to happen, namely to have lobbies distorting the health care service and drugs market - and ever increasing inssurance costs needing to compensate for the corruption in the system.

So if you go for that system, it is a big chance and a risk for you at the same time. Do it well, and your children will thank you, and your society will have gained a significant ammount of civilization. Follow our examples and let it slip into muddy realms and mutating bureaucracy, and you end up with a bureaucracy going amok and corruption and lobbies establishing price monopoles and never stop milking you more and more.

[SUBMAN1]

A woman in the White House who is a clinton never happen chill out. ;)

Well, you never know some days. And to think she is even a senator and has these kinds of thoughts!!! Look at what she says:

...She said she could envision a day when "you have to show proof to your employer that you're insured as a part of the job interview — like when your kid goes to school and has to show proof of vaccination," but said such details would be worked out through negotiations with Congress....

[SUBMAN1]

Cool down, it'S in principle the same way inEurope, and I don'T argue with it. Principle obligatory health insurances is one of the things I do not complain about. But since you Americans are new to implement it, you better take care you do not repeat the same mistakes we europoeans allowed to happen, namley to have lobbies distorting the health care and drugs market and ever increasing inssurance costs needing to compensate for the corruptiuon in the system.

So if you go for that system, it is a big chance and a risk for you at the same time. Do it well, and your children will thank you, and your society will have gained a significant ammount of civilization. Follow our examples and let it slip into muddy realms and mutating bureaucracy, and you end up with a bureaucracy going amok and corruption and lobbies establishing price monopoles and never stop milking you more and more.
So you are saying - you are forced to pay $3000 to $12000 a year (depending on age and health), or more before you can possibly get a job where you are? Do you even realize how much this costs an individual over here? This is why many companies are looking to dump it - it is near unaffordable to them, which makes it truely out of reach for a normal person alone who has 'no job'. That is the most stupid idea I have ever heard!

-S

PS. The forcing of it also invites the door to open for corruption. Bad bad idea.

PPS. If you already have a condition - just try getting someone to insure you!

PPPS. I think you just ahve a disconnect from the American Health system - it is the best in the world, but that comes at a steep price.

[Capt. Shark Bait]

she must never be president. just how much integrity does she have when hubby misused the Office for his....personal pursuits

[STEED]

Hillary Clinton is damage goods and she will only get so far. Its possible one day America will elect there first women as president but sure as hell won't be HC.

[Tchocky]

she must never be president. just how much integrity does she have when hubby misused the Office for his....personal pursuits
That's like saying Nelson Mandela should be in jail with Winnie...

[The Avon Lady]

she must never be president. just how much integrity does she have when hubby misused the Office for his....personal pursuits
That's like saying Nelson Mandela should be in jail with Winnie...
I smell a new Family Feud episode coming up!

[SUBMAN1]

she must never be president. just how much integrity does she have when hubby misused the Office for his....personal pursuits That's like saying Nelson Mandela should be in jail with Winnie...

Not really. Family values actually are an important part in leadership. It says something about you when you can't even lead your own family, does it not?

-S

[August]

They passed a mandatory health insurance law in Massachusetts recently so don't say it can't happen here...

[Tchocky]

Not really. Family values actually are an important part in leadership. It says something about you when you can't even lead your own family, does it not? These days, a politicians less palatable religious beliefs tend to sneak in as "family values". Y'know, if we allow gay people to legally commit to each other, society will collapse :p

Tolstoy says that happy families are all alike, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Not to cast any aspersions on the current state of Chez Clinton, I don't know nearly enough to do that.
Bill's personal flaws aren't the strongest grounds for criticism of Hillary.
"Are you sure you want to vote for Hillary? Remember, her husband cheated on her!"
There are much better reasons not to vote for Hillary :), she's actually got a list of them on her site.

And let's not get into the mess that forms when we apply this to Rudy.

EDIT
PPPS. I think you just ahve a disconnect from the American Health system - it is the best in the world, but that comes at a steep price.
To me, that's grounds for knocking it off the top spot. "Best" is a function of, among other things, service quality and service availability.
I think Pfunk has a long post on this somewhere, a choice between excellent care for some, none for the rest, and average care for all.

[Skybird]

So you are saying - you are forced to pay $3000 to $12000 a year (depending on age and health), or more before you can possibly get a job where you are?

Health insurance is very much obligatory here. If oyu are socially/financially weak (because for example you work a full job and interestingly still are not allowed to live by the wages for your full time job), you can be allowed to benefit from subsidies.

Do you even realize how much this costs an individual over here?
Only if the individual can afford to even have an insurance. How many can't right now...? Hint: very, very many, despite having several jobs and working 12 hours per day. Strange.

This is why many companies are looking to dump it - it is near unaffordable to them, which makes it truely out of reach for a normal person alone who has 'no job'. That is the most stupid idea I have ever heard!
So you tell me that employees cannot make a living - which includes to take care of health problems of themsleves and there families - although having a full time job? What does this tell about the structures and morals of the economy if a man cannot make a living and secure his future when being at high age - although having worked a regular full time job? Full time work should guarantee a living, and a safe life'S evening. That is the minimum by any humanistic standards, I guess.

Ever heared of the phenomenen of the so-called "working poor"? Unfortunetyl, it is in epidemic increase in Europe, too, but it has been an existing problem in the US long before.

PS. The forcing of it also invites the door to open for corruption. Bad bad idea.

So better have no health insurance system - instead of having a system and needing to accept the risk? The mentality of corruption and lobbying that distorts the market competition is not a problem of health insurances, but of the general spirit by which we run our economies. From this general economy trend it is influencing health insurances as well, amongst many others. Should we annihilate all economy, then? - I just said myself in my first answer that you should not repeat the mistakes we have made in europe: to allow bureaucracy and lobbies distorting the market by establishing monopoles. This is what makes our system more and more unaffordable for the national host, and pushes the costs upwards for the interests of the few who harvest the cream, and this is what you should better avoid. Lobbies and monopoles are always a betrayal of communal interest - for which the tax payer in the end has to come up and pay the extra costs. If there would be a revolution, monopolists and lobbyists would be amongst the first I would execute right in place.:arrgh!:

PPS. If you already have a condition - just try getting someone to insure you!

Absolutely zero problem here - you have the almost free choice. Different with life insurances, but since health insurance is obligatory, the legal environment is such that you can freely choose the insurance organization you want. I must add that we have two types of such health insurance companies: public and private ones. With the latter, usually costing a bit more and more often raising their prices, it sometimes can be difficult, eventually, but most take you with handicaps but maybe with an increase in price. The public insurances take everyone. no matter the age and possible handicaps. I'm in an public insurance and must say concerning costs and service I cannot complain, and the price is adequate to my income. Currently having around 800 bucks per month (living in my own property, so no rent for my flat), I pay around 130 Euros for health insurance. In some years I will have around 3300 Euros, and will pay around 420 euros for health insurance. I consider this ratio to be fair and absolutely affordable. Also, there are upper limits anyway, beyond a certain income you do not pay more than the maximum allowed, I think some 700 Euros, I am not sure.

PPPS. I think you just ahve a disconnect from the American Health system - it is the best in the world, but that comes at a steep price.
I think it is a health system of formidable competence and capability - and is unaffordable for many, which is a shame for one of the richest countries on the globe. I see America as a country of extreme contrasts. You are well off there if you have enough money. If you don't, then it is the most brutal place in the western hemisphere.

[SUBMAN1]

Not really. Family values actually are an important part in leadership. It says something about you when you can't even lead your own family, does it not? These days, a politicians less palatable religious beliefs tend to sneak in as "family values". Y'know, if we allow gay people to legally commit to each other, society will collapse :p

Tolstoy says that happy families are all alike, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Not to cast any aspersions on the current state of Chez Clinton, I don't know nearly enough to do that.
Bill's personal flaws aren't the strongest grounds for criticism of Hillary.
"Are you sure you want to vote for Hillary? Remember, her husband cheated on her!"
There are much better reasons not to vote for Hillary :), she's actually got a list of them on her site.

And let's not get into the mess that forms when we apply this to Rudy.
Hardly the case. What it shows is character and a strong and well balanced leader knows how to deal with situations, including their own family. If they can't deal with there own crap, how can you expect them to do anything else well for you? You can't.

To bring the gay garbage into this conversation is to muddy the waters - keep it on subject.

EDIT
PPPS. I think you just ahve a disconnect from the American Health system - it is the best in the world, but that comes at a steep price. To me, that's grounds for knocking it off the top spot. "Best" is a function of, among other things, service quality and service availability.
I think Pfunk has a long post on this somewhere, a choice between excellent care for some, none for the rest, and average care for all.
'Everyone' has health care in the US, insured or not. You go into the emergency room to get something taken care of, by law they must treat you. What I am seeing here is a bunch of non AMericans making assumptions about things. SOmeone has to pay for these uninsured, so what ends up happening is that my insurance and everyone elses eventually pays - in the form of higher prices for services than what they should be to cover the uninsured. Don't think for one second that someone having a heart attack is left to die - it is quite the contrary. Just don't expect the doctors to give you a sex change or facelift while they are at it because they won't unless you can pay. This is what we are talking about.

[SUBMAN1]

Skybird - I'll answer you in time. I have a few things to take care of before I can answer such a lengthy debate.

-S

[Fish]

I posted this link before in a other thread.
It's the way we do it now, no bureaucracy:

http://medinnovationblog.blogspot.co...-go-dutch.html (http://medinnovationblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/should-us-health-system-go-dutch.html)

[Skybird]

Skybird - I'll answer you in time. I have a few things to take care of before I can answer such a lengthy debate.

-S
Going to bed now and working all day tomorrow anyway.

[Skybird]

Bah! Now I was called off and have a free day - and no reply! :arrgh!:

just kidding. Have nothing more to say anyway. ;)

[SUBMAN1]

Bah! Now I was called off and have a free day - and no reply! :arrgh!:

just kidding. Have nothing more to say anyway. ;)

Don't count on it! BioShock took precedence! :D

-S

[Tchocky]

Don't count on it! BioShock took precedence! :D-S

You lucky....*expletive deleted*

http://www.visitingdc.com/images/richard-nixon-picture.jpg