Prophecy fullfilled

[geetrue]

The Lord gave me a prophecy back on July 17th ... I thought it was going to be a big assed hurricane like Dean, but Humberto was the one He spoke of ...

The Lord said, "A hurricane will broach Texas"

One minute later while I was still pondering the message plus why He would tell me this ...

The Lord said, "If a missile were to be launched against Tel aviv ... it would land in Jordan"

The Lord was trying to tell us something about how big He really is.

The prophecy about the hurricane came true: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MN82S5LPJ.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/09/14/MN82S5LPJ.DTL)

"This has never before happened"



In 18 hours, Humberto strengthened from a tropical depression with 35 mph winds to a Category 1 hurricane with 85 mph winds before crashing ashore. It did not grow into a hurricane until after midnight.
"That has never before happened" in the more than 150 years scientists have been tracking hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean, said James Franklin, a senior specialist at the National Hurricane Center in Miami.
"It's very, very rare to see a storm go from a depression to a hurricane in this short a time," he said. "It's only happened four times before since 1851, and this is the only one to do this just before landfall."


That was the Lord thy God ... no doubt about it ... He is trying to show us something.

He is trying to show us that He can create something out of nothing and make it happen.

He's trying to show us that He is in charge of not only hurricanes (God Bless the one soul that perished in hurricane Humberto) ...

He is also in charge of the protection of His first chosen nation of Israel.

The point is we should all worry less and believe more ...

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge :up:

[Tchocky]

If he'd said a hurricane would strike Reno, that would be something.

But isn't it hurricane season?

Doesn't Texas have a history (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/history/whtexas.htm)?

[Jimbuna]

I believe I believe :yep: :p

[Happy Times]

The Lord gave me a prophecy back on July 17th ... I thought it was going to be a big assed hurricane like Dean, but Humberto was the one He spoke of ...

The Lord said, "A hurricane will broach Texas"

One minute later while I was still pondering the message plus why He would tell me this ...

The Lord said, "If a missile were to be launched against Tel aviv ... it would land in Jordan"

The Lord was trying to tell us something about how big He really is.

The prophecy about the hurricane came true: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MN82S5LPJ.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/09/14/MN82S5LPJ.DTL)

"This has never before happened"



In 18 hours, Humberto strengthened from a tropical depression with 35 mph winds to a Category 1 hurricane with 85 mph winds before crashing ashore. It did not grow into a hurricane until after midnight.
"That has never before happened" in the more than 150 years scientists have been tracking hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean, said James Franklin, a senior specialist at the National Hurricane Center in Miami.
"It's very, very rare to see a storm go from a depression to a hurricane in this short a time," he said. "It's only happened four times before since 1851, and this is the only one to do this just before landfall."


That was the Lord thy God ... no doubt about it ... He is trying to show us something.

He is trying to show us that He can create something out of nothing and make it happen.

He's trying to show us that He is in charge of not only hurricanes (God Bless the one soul that perished in hurricane Humberto) ...

He is also in charge of the protection of His first chosen nation of Israel.

The point is we should all worry less and believe more ...

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge :up:

You really believe that?:hmm:

[Letum]

My chess board told me there will be a earthquake along a major fault line next year.

[Skybird]

Is this thread meant serious?

[geetrue]

If he'd said a hurricane would strike Reno, that would be something.

But isn't it hurricane season?

Doesn't Texas have a history (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/history/whtexas.htm)?

True Texas has a history of hurricane's ... I was 16 when hurricane Carla hit Texas in 1961 and it was a big hurricane. I was in a hurricane in Key West while going through sonar school in 1965 and I have even been at sea on a round bottomed submarine for force 9 weather, but never in history has a hurricane hit land fall in less time than this one.

God had a reason for doing this and I believe it was to increase our faith in Him.

It's the second part of the message that He wants us to hear ... He just used the hurricane to get our attention.

[Rose]

Is this thread meant serious?


Yeah, I'm a bit confused...

[Happy Times]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7678/voicesux8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Happy Times]

If he'd said a hurricane would strike Reno, that would be something.

But isn't it hurricane season?

Doesn't Texas have a history (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/history/whtexas.htm)?

True Texas has a history of hurricane's ... I was 16 when hurricane Carla hit Texas in 1961 and it was a big hurricane. I was in a hurricane in Key West while going through sonar school in 1965 and I have even been at sea on a round bottomed submarine for force 9 weather, but never in history has a hurricane hit land fall in less time than this one.

God had a reason for doing this and I believe it was to increase our faith in Him.

It's the second part of the message that He wants us to hear ... He just used the hurricane to get our attention.

You hearing prophecies that others cant, doesnt that make you a prophet? Or what are you saying?:hmm:

[geetrue]

If he'd said a hurricane would strike Reno, that would be something.

But isn't it hurricane season?

Doesn't Texas have a history (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurricane/history/whtexas.htm)?

True Texas has a history of hurricane's ... I was 16 when hurricane Carla hit Texas in 1961 and it was a big hurricane. I was in a hurricane in Key West while going through sonar school in 1965 and I have even been at sea on a round bottomed submarine for force 9 weather, but never in history has a hurricane hit land fall in less time than this one.

God had a reason for doing this and I believe it was to increase our faith in Him.

It's the second part of the message that He wants us to hear ... He just used the hurricane to get our attention.

You hearing prophecies that others cant, doesnt that make you a prophet? Or what are you saying?:hmm:

They stoned the prophets back in the old testament ... I'm just a servant of the Lord thy God ... doing His will.

I love that kitty's eyes though ...

[Letum]

http://www.kingofeasystreet.com/stuff/talkin-to-jesus.jpg

[geetrue]

That's funny Letum, but Happy's was better ...

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7678/voicesux8.jpg

[August]

If you really were a true believer Geetrue you'd know that God doesn't "try" to do anything. If he wants it done it happens, no "trying" to it...

The lord told me to tell you to go say 20 Hail Marys and 30 Our Fathers and be quick about it.

[Jimbuna]

Hey guys.....I sure hope this is a wind up. If it aint, lets not go too far down the road of disrespecting someones faith/belief or even opinion :nope:

[Skybird]

A god sending hurricanes to make mortals believe in him is a sick, cruel psychopath and should be locked away in a psychiatry (where he probably escaped from anyway). I wish he would not send hurricanes, but reason.

Anyhow, making one's own little chatter with god a public matter reminds me of this little passage in the Bible:

5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. (Matthew 6, 5-8)

Or in short, geetrue:
Keep thy religion to thyself.

[Letum]

5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. (Matthew 6, 5-8)

Or in short, geetrue:
Keep thy religion to thyself.

A little ironic that that passage is from the most printed book in the world.

[Skybird]

A little ironic that that passage is from the most printed book in the world.
It's hear-say anyway, and between the fixing of the gospels in writing, and the life of Jesus lay more than 70 years, that is 2 generations. Someobdy called the gosepls "70 years of Chinese whispers" for that reason, but at least parts of the gospels make much more sense and reveal far greater reaosn than the rest of the bible. I would say that at least about the sermon on the mountain. If you cut away all the rest of the bible, I would say it is no loss, and if it would have been done earlier, and there would have been no Bible and no Quran from the beginning, than mankind probably would have been far better off in general. In the end, all I ask for is reason, and desist from missionizing and trying to make somebody else's decisions for him (no matter what your motive is). Your freedom to believe what you want ends where you start to limit the freedom of the other.

[minsc_tdp]

I hate to be a dick, but I'm an atheist and this is quite a load of BS.

1. If you had posted this before the hurricane had already happened and wasn't old news, now that would have been something.
2. Why didn't god tell you this ahead of time before the hurricane even formed so you could have done something about it?
3. Did you know that in the past 20 years, 37 hurricanes have made landfall? (http://www.iii.org/media/facts/statsbyissue/hurricanes/) That meets your definition of "broaching".
4. While TX is not often the site of expensive hurricane damage, Rita put it on the map in 2005. It's not like it's hitting in Reno as mentioned above.
5. Where a hurricane is going to hit is known quite a LONG time before it actually hits. So you weren't stating anything (or being "told" anything) that wasn't already known to scientists long before. The growth factor is always a wildcard, but after Katrina, it's a safe bet that any hurricane will be stronger than predicted.
6. I won't even open up the can of worms that is Israel. Suffiice it to say that a rocket gets shot at somebody up in that area every week.
7. He's in charge of these disasters that destroy entire cities, displace families, kill scores of pets, ruin infrastructures for decades to come, spread pestilence and disease, hurts the economy, and more... because... WHY exactly?
8. And why is that comforting to you?

So essentially you're saying that God told you something would happen after it already happened, and it was something that scientists already knew would likely happen days ago, didn't help you save anyone from the disaster, and then makes a blanket statement about Israel and rockets which happens all the time, and taking credit for a disaster is somehow comforting to you. How many other people do you think are getting these "revelations"? Do any of them live in Texas? How do you think they're taking the news? If someone burned my house down, then came up to me the next day and said "I burned your house down - but don't worry about, I'm in control and everything will work out in the end", he'd get beat within an inch of his life.

[fatty]

I had a dream once that Tim Allen found a long-lost son from the jungle and brought him back to the metropolis to raise him, comedy ensued. This prophecy later materialized in the unimpressive Jungle 2 Jungle (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119432/).

:hmm:

[geetrue]

I hate to be a dick, but I'm an atheist and this is quite a load of BS.

1. If you had posted this before the hurricane had already happened and wasn't old news, now that would have been something.
2. Why didn't god tell you this ahead of time before the hurricane even formed so you could have done something about it.

I did post it ... not only on subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=120597

I also posted it here:
http://foru.ms/t5717686-prophetic-a-...n-the-way.html


So essentially you're saying that God told you something would happen after it already happened,

Nope! I just repeated the message the same way He gave it to me on July 17th at foru.ms and on August 18th on subsim.

The real clue in the message is that God is bigger than we can imagine, even Christians are giving me a hard time on this. I forgive you.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

heh. this is a joke. did ye aver saw the "lord" ? if so. prove it

see to believe mate. i rather believe in satan (although he dosnt exist either) than the "lord" :nope:

i asked that b-tard every christian says to be existing to show his presance.
never saw a damn thing :shifty:

say. wasnt there a religion in ammerica about a flying spagheti monster ? :hmm:
mayby you should all believe in that one
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

Tell me young Kaleun Mohron.....why do you keep engaging the mouth before the brain ?
I thought you learnt that lesson the other day from 'THEHIREDGUN' on a previous thread.
At 19 years of age (or is it in fact your IQ rating) I doubt you can call yourself qualified or even justified in your use of such descriptive terminology towards someone elses chosen religious belief.
To have an opinion is one thing, but you are way over the top in what you posted. :nope:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Tell me young Kaleun Mohron.....why do you keep engaging the mouth before the brain ?
I thought you learnt that lesson the other day from 'THEHIREDGUN' on a previous thread.
At 19 years of age (or is it in fact your IQ rating) I doubt you can call yourself qualified or even justified in your use of such descriptive terminology towards someone elses chosen religious belief.
To have an opinion is one thing, but you are way over the top in what you posted. :nope:
havnt been on the topic of thehiredgun since my last post. :hmm:

im 19 thats correct. but i have no religious choise.
i hate all those stupid "this you may, this you may not" rules.

yes i am a moron today :88)
yes i know i went over the top. but thats how I see religions :shifty:

and. do i have a brain ? :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Tell me young Kaleun Mohron.....why do you keep engaging the mouth before the brain ?
I thought you learnt that lesson the other day from 'THEHIREDGUN' on a previous thread.
At 19 years of age (or is it in fact your IQ rating) I doubt you can call yourself qualified or even justified in your use of such descriptive terminology towards someone elses chosen religious belief.
To have an opinion is one thing, but you are way over the top in what you posted. :nope:
havnt been on the topic of thehiredgun since my last post. :hmm:

im 19 thats correct. but i have no religious choise.
i hate all those stupid "this you may, this you may not" rules.

yes i am a moron today :88)
yes i know i went over the top. but thats how I see religions :shifty:

and. do i have a brain ? :hmm:

Check out post #8 and I think you'll find you have been there since he responded to you :yep:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=643847#post643847

The point I am trying to make is quite simple.......people of whatever religious faith/belief will not appreciate the deflamatory word you used when referring to their faith.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Tell me young Kaleun Mohron.....why do you keep engaging the mouth before the brain ?
I thought you learnt that lesson the other day from 'THEHIREDGUN' on a previous thread.
At 19 years of age (or is it in fact your IQ rating) I doubt you can call yourself qualified or even justified in your use of such descriptive terminology towards someone elses chosen religious belief.
To have an opinion is one thing, but you are way over the top in what you posted. :nope:
havnt been on the topic of thehiredgun since my last post. :hmm:

im 19 thats correct. but i have no religious choise.
i hate all those stupid "this you may, this you may not" rules.

yes i am a moron today :88)
yes i know i went over the top. but thats how I see religions :shifty:

and. do i have a brain ? :hmm:
Check out post #8 and I think you'll find you have been there since he responded to you :yep:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=643847#post643847

The point I am trying to make is quite simple.......people of whatever religious faith/belief will not appreciate the deflamatory word you used when referring to their faith.
wasnt #8 my last post ? :hmm:

and if you want il remove it. but i still have THAT statement :yep:

[Skybird]

Hehe.

Five minutes of instant enlightenment. Precise, reasonable, and straight to the point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg

And never I will consider myself to be so high-sitting that I would tell somebody: "I forgive you."

[minsc_tdp]

I certainly don't hope to make any enemies here since this is, by far, my favorite forum on the net and I hope any heated attitudes don't spill over into other, unrelated, friendly game threads.

Having said that, I will first acknowledge that you did make your statement about 2 months before the "hurricane" hit. But I will try to boil this down to the two key things you are simply ignoring or not understanding that make it all irrelevant.

The first is the overall odds of your revelation coming true. What were the odds? Let's pretend we're bookies and do a little oddsmaking. Well given that a hurricane has broached texas before, and the area has been generally pummelled with hurricanes the last few years, this is a pretty solid bet. If I were a bookie, I'd maybe give you 1.5 to 1. Hurricane Rita hit Texas in 2005 for christs sake. What fool would bet against your revelation?

The statement of "this has never happened before" is only referring to the rapid overnight growth which promoted its status. But your revelation didn't include that so it is completely irrelevant to all of this. You are (perhaps unconsciously) trying to use that to make it appear that the odds of your revelation coming true were very long, when in fact they simply weren't. You want it to be a revelation so you're twisting logic to reinforce that belief. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You also didn't state when it would happen, and while you got lucky and it happened shortly after your revelation was made, which appears to bolster your revelation, it actually doesn't matter since you didn't say when. It could have taken years and your old thread would have been dredged up at that time as Prophecy Fulfilled, albeit with less impact than the way things turned out. But we'll get to that in a second. Focusing still on the odds, as a Vegas bookie, if you tried to make an open-ended bet like that, none would take it, since the bookie will eventually lose the bet. But even if you had added the stipulation (which you didn't) that it would happen by the end of the year, a bookie MIGHT take that bet but the odds would still be maybe 1.5 to 1, given the recent hurricane activity in that area and the randomness of weather. Vegas isn't stupid, and the amazing things they have built are testaments to that.

So there's the odds. Keeping in mind we're talking about a 1.5 to 1 odds bet here, let's move onto point #2. This is a classic case of focusing on the hits and ignoring the misses. The "hit" in this case is your single prediction, even though the odds of it coming true were pretty good of it happening in the first place. The "misses" are the thousands upon thousands of revelations and predictions per hour made throughout the world that don't come true. Those are conveniently ignored, but there is a lot of "I told you so" on the ones that do come true. The way to be on the winning team is to use predictions so vague and open-ended that some of them will come true which you can then focus on - but hell, even Nostradomus knew this trick and was a master at exploiting it, though I think even he would be surprised at the gullibility of people centuries after.

There's even a well established term for this: Confirmation Bias:

"Confirmation-bias (selective evidence). Many people report a common perception of thinking about someone, when the phone then rings and the caller is the person they were thinking of. Is this strong evidence for a psychic ability between these people? The answer is no. It reflects a selective bias in memory and reason. Although we can remember the instances when this does happen (as they can be striking) we rarely remember the instances when it is not the person we were thinking of. Our memory is biased to place an emphasis on the ‘hits’ and ignore the ‘misses’."

Look at the Internet as giant collective brain, and you'll see how a supposedly amazing "hit" will be honed in on by dozens of people and marvelled at when it is just the simple phenominon of confirmation bias.

I fully agree that you believe that God revealed this to you. This might also be the only prediction you've ever made. So, from your perspective, you're 1 for 1. But you are one of many people making predictions, most of which do not come true unless they are vague and open ended like yours and already have good odds that they will come true.

Focusing on the hits and ignoring the misses, completly ignoring the odds, and trying to twist an unrelated fact in your favor, is ignoring the entire field of mathematics and logic, and a slap in the face to every great mathematician who has ever existed over thousands of years, and by extension, every great scientist who has ever lived from the early chinese to Einstein to those alive today.

It is also a slap in the face of all the math and sciences which fueled the industrial revolution and the ensuing population boom which contributed heavily to the odds of your even existing. It's a slap in the face to every person who applies mathematics and science every day to manage the logistics of your trash and water services, and the power services which power the very computer you are on right now, which wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for the combined work of math and science over centuries and, more specifically, the dedicated mathematic and scientific work by the engineers responsible for the actual technology you are using. God did not put that *******ing computer on your desk.

I believe that the world would be a better place if everyone realized such obvious facts and threw out childish notions of spirits and woo-woo. I strongly suggest reading www.randi.org (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/www.randi.org) or "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer. Like all who evangelize, please realize that I am only trying to help you and all readers of this thread by showing the truth, nothing more.

[Camaero]

Sorry but I don't agree with anyone pushing their religion on anyone. All religions say that theirs is the right one and that all of the others are wrong. Most of them say "do not kill" and nobody seems to follow that one too well on this earth. People also pick and choose which part of the religion they like and they do not follow the other parts. It is so ridiculous. I personally do not think that any religion truly has it right. I don't think it is possible to truly have it right until you move on to the next "thing" (death). I would rather just let people tune in from within themselves rather than from all these wingnuts telling them what is what.



I am pretty much with Skybird here.

[Skybird]

say. wasnt there a religion in ammerica about a flying spagheti monster ? :hmm:

Yes:
http://www.venganza.org/


Open letter to Kansas school board

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg



May the flying spagetti monster with you. Ramen!

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Hehe.

Five minutes of instant enlightenment. Precise, reasonable, and straight to the point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg

And never I will consider myself to be so high-sitting that I would tell somebody: "I forgive you."

he thinks just like me. :yep:

[Happy Times]

I don't think it is possible to truly have it right until you move on to the next "thing" (death).

It funny how dying is the thing that people happily wait in many religions.:D

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

say. wasnt there a religion in ammerica about a flying spagheti monster ? :hmm:
Yes:
http://www.venganza.org/


Open letter to Kansas school board

I am writing you with much concern after having read of your hearing to decide whether the alternative theory of Intelligent Design should be taught along with the theory of Evolution. I think we can all agree that it is important for students to hear multiple viewpoints so they can choose for themselves the theory that makes the most sense to them. I am concerned, however, that students will only hear one theory of Intelligent Design.
Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was He who created all that we see and all that we feel. We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.
It is for this reason that I’m writing you today, to formally request that this alternative theory be taught in your schools, along with the other two theories. In fact, I will go so far as to say, if you do not agree to do this, we will be forced to proceed with legal action. I’m sure you see where we are coming from. If the Intelligent Design theory is not based on faith, but instead another scientific theory, as is claimed, then you must also allow our theory to be taught, as it is also based on science, not on faith.
Some find that hard to believe, so it may be helpful to tell you a little more about our beliefs. We have evidence that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe. None of us, of course, were around to see it, but we have written accounts of it. We have several lengthy volumes explaining all details of His power. Also, you may be surprised to hear that there are over 10 million of us, and growing. We tend to be very secretive, as many people claim our beliefs are not substantiated by observable evidence. What these people don’t understand is that He built the world to make us think the earth is older than it really is. For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage. We have numerous texts that describe in detail how this can be possible and the reasons why He does this. He is of course invisible and can pass through normal matter with ease.
I’m sure you now realize how important it is that your students are taught this alternate theory. It is absolutely imperative that they realize that observable evidence is at the discretion of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Furthermore, it is disrespectful to teach our beliefs without wearing His chosen outfit, which of course is full pirate regalia. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, and unfortunately cannot describe in detail why this must be done as I fear this letter is already becoming too long. The concise explanation is that He becomes angry if we don’t.
You may be interested to know that global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of Pirates since the 1800s. For your interest, I have included a graph of the approximate number of pirates versus the average global temperature over the last 200 years. As you can see, there is a statistically significant inverse relationship between pirates and global temperature.
http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif
In conclusion, thank you for taking the time to hear our views and beliefs. I hope I was able to convey the importance of teaching this theory to your students. We will of course be able to train the teachers in this alternate theory. I am eagerly awaiting your response, and hope dearly that no legal action will need to be taken. I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence.
Sincerely Yours,
Bobby Henderson, concerned citizen.
P.S. I have included an artistic drawing of Him creating a mountain, trees, and a midget. Remember, we are all His creatures.
http://www.venganza.org/him2.jpg


May the flying spagetti monster with you. Ramen!
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
stupid ppl

[Skybird]

stupid ppl
Not really. Bobby henderson is professor for physics and has launched this movement in protest against the demands of fundamentalists to teach creationism in schools as if creationism does have any scientific component to offer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster



And if you liked the video, here is more (23 all in all):

http://www.youtube.com/patcondell

Most are extremely well-done and straight to the point, only some are not as good as the others. You my like this one especially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4mWiqkGy-Y

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

stupid ppl Not really. Bobby henderson is professor for physics and has launched this movement in protest against the demands of fundamentalists to teach creationism in schools as if creationism does have any scientific component to offer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster



And if you liked the video, here is more (23 all in all):

http://www.youtube.com/patcondell

Most are extremely well-done and straight to the point, only some are not as good as the others. You my like this one especially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4mWiqkGy-Y
seen some of them. he's bloody right. :yep:
subscribing to that person right away

[Happy Times]

A classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9GlayKS_0&mode=related&search=

:rotfl:

[Skybird]

A classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9GlayKS_0&mode=related&search=

:rotfl:

"I want my god!"

That's what it pretty much is about, right? From several years of experience in "training" people in meditation (o put it into any words) I can say that all too many people do not really wish to find any reality or truth - they just seek comfort from being confirmed in what they themselves imagine what truth and reality is. This is tragic. Especially members of theistic religions do not really wish to find out about god - instead they have a picture in their head, self-constructed, and only want to be confirmed in their belief that this self-constucted picture of their god is correct, so they must not change themselves, and take the effort to learn to ask questions. Often, their gods are distorted reflections of how they wish to see themselves. It is pointless to try to discuss with them. I eventually managed to help some people making alternative perceptions of reality that caused doubt and shook their beliefs, by setting an example which they copied, more or less, or not. Of 200-300 people that came over the years and joined the "course" (just to give it some name), only two ever broke through this barrier.

Needless to say that you can't reach very far with all those many beliefs and pictures in your head. The more things you carry in your rucksack, the more exhausting your travelling will be. Or like they use to say in Zen: if you don't empty your cup before filling in new tea, all you get is a wet table.

"I want my god!" :D God, I want her to regain her sanity. :lol:

We're laughing. But in reality - she is tragic.

[Fish]

A little ironic that that passage is from the most printed book in the world.
It's hear-say anyway, and between the fixing of the gospels in writing, and the life of Jesus lay more than 70 years, that is 2 generations. Someobdy called the gosepls "70 years of Chinese whispers" for that reason, but at least parts of the gospels make much more sense and reveal far greater reaosn than the rest of the bible. I would say that at least about the sermon on the mountain. If you cut away all the rest of the bible, I would say it is no loss, and if it would have been done earlier, and there would have been no Bible and no Quran from the beginning, than mankind probably would have been far better off in general. In the end, all I ask for is reason, and desist from missionizing and trying to make somebody else's decisions for him (no matter what your motive is). Your freedom to believe what you want ends where you start to limit the freedom of the other.


Epistles from the Christian Scriptures (New Testament): http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifLiberal theologians believe that some of these were written as late as 150 CE, up to 4 generations after Jesus' death, by authors who were not eye witnesses of his ministry. Those writers could have based their letters on traditional sayings attributed to Jesus which dated from an earlier era. An analysis by G.A. Wells showed to his satisfaction that the authors definitely believed in the existence of Jesus, but did not cite any evidence that he lived in the 1st century.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm

[Happy Times]

We're laughing. But in reality - she is tragic.

True, it hurt to look at her children, the youngest especially.:nope:

[Chock]

If you really believe that some benevolent all powerful being in charge of creating and running the entire universe got in touch with you to point out that it was going to be windy, and then despite being benevolent, neglected to warn someone else - who was subsequently killed by that same wind - then I'd recommend you seek psychiatric help.

Just ask yourself which is the more likely explanation: schizophrenia, or the (supposed) creator of the universe getting in touch with you?

You're entitled to believe it of course, and I'm sure many 'religious' people will also swallow it. But frankly, the mere fact that a lot of people in the world believe that kind of thing doesn't make it any less preposterous, just more prevalent.

My personal belief is that it's no wonder the world is in trouble when people who believe this kind of thing are allowed to vote.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

A little ironic that that passage is from the most printed book in the world.
It's hear-say anyway, and between the fixing of the gospels in writing, and the life of Jesus lay more than 70 years, that is 2 generations. Someobdy called the gosepls "70 years of Chinese whispers" for that reason, but at least parts of the gospels make much more sense and reveal far greater reaosn than the rest of the bible. I would say that at least about the sermon on the mountain. If you cut away all the rest of the bible, I would say it is no loss, and if it would have been done earlier, and there would have been no Bible and no Quran from the beginning, than mankind probably would have been far better off in general. In the end, all I ask for is reason, and desist from missionizing and trying to make somebody else's decisions for him (no matter what your motive is). Your freedom to believe what you want ends where you start to limit the freedom of the other.


Epistles from the Christian Scriptures (New Testament): http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifLiberal theologians believe that some of these were written as late as 150 CE, up to 4 generations after Jesus' death, by authors who were not eye witnesses of his ministry. Those writers could have based their letters on traditional sayings attributed to Jesus which dated from an earlier era. An analysis by G.A. Wells showed to his satisfaction that the authors definitely believed in the existence of Jesus, but did not cite any evidence that he lived in the 1st century.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm

Interesting, but no matter wether Jesus lived for real or not, he is dead since 2000 years and is not meant to ever come back. That's why I always refuse to join that personal cult around him, and refer only to some small parts of the bible that eventually I cvonsider to be reasonable and respectable BY THIER CONTENT. If Jesus lived for real or not, is relatively unimporant for me. the story around him, fictional or real, is no illustration of events by which man has been freed from taking responsibility for himself. The story only illustrates in what way we need to pick up and accept that responsibility. In other words: the story of his crucification does not mean that there was a man dying in our place, and now we are forgiven once and for all. It only means he died to hint us the way that nevertheless we need to go ourselves. Pick up your cross and carry it yourself. In plain English: accept the responsibility for your life, for your deeds, your thoughts, and the consequences you cause in the world, for they will fall back onto you in some way. From here, it is not far to the Karma idea in Asian philosophy.

[August]

Interesting, but no matter wether Jesus lived for real or not, he is dead since 2000 years and is not meant to ever come back.

Actually that's not correct, nearly every sect of Christianity believes in a second coming of Christ at some point.

[Skybird]

Interesting, but no matter wether Jesus lived for real or not, he is dead since 2000 years and is not meant to ever come back.

Actually that's not correct, nearly every sect of Christianity believes in a second coming of Christ at some point.
I know, but shall they believe what they want, and wait until all hell freezes over. You are free to believe what you want, i mean. Believing is not knowing. On every third Friday and on weekends in July I for example take the freedom to believe that the sky is green and the grass is blue.

But I could of course believe something different, too. Believing is not knowing, and indicates the absence of knowledge (for where you have knowledge you do not depend on blindly believing anything anymore. but many people deceive themselves on what they believe they know...). The act means systematically taking the unexamined and unexaminable for serious and real and true knowledge - where the truth is it is the most shallow way to experience and to live your life, that way you hinder yourself from gaining knowledge..

Don't get me started on believing! It served nothing good to mankind. It's like driving fast on the highway with closed eyes.

Take a nicotine pill instead. :)

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Confucious say: He who farts in church, sits in own pew.

[Skybird]

Confucious say: He who farts in church, sits in own pew.
Ah, that's why Christians used to sit with stone-like faces in their church, and show no sign of humour! :D

[Tchocky]

Those who say that geetrue's god is sadistic/cruel/psychotic, I contend that he seems to have gotten better since the Old Testament.

Turning Lot's wife into a pillar of salt, then making him have sex with his daughters in a cave.

Darkly hilarious, and cruel.

[kiwi_2005]

Geetrue a prophet:huh:

:shifty:

:hmm:

[bradclark1]

If someone believes in God I thing it's totally wrong to insult or belittle them for it. Just my opinion.

[Jimbuna]

Confucious say: He who farts in church, sits in own pew.
Ah, that's why Christians used to sit with stone-like faces in their church, and show no sign of humour! :D

LMAO (no pun intended) :rotfl:

[Happy Times]

If someone believes in God I thing it's totally wrong to insult or belittle them for it. Just my opinion.

Yes its a private thing.
Untill you post on the internet that god talks to you..

[Skybird]

If someone believes in God I thing it's totally wrong to insult or belittle them for it. Just my opinion.
I agree. Please note that I leave people all alone as long as they do not become public about their religiont, or their ideology follows an agenda of claiming the right, no: the duty to convert others. Where either the one or the other takes place I reserve the right to make mockery of them. Which I think is what they deserve when doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus has taught people to do (Christians becoming public, becoming organised in institutions and churches or defending death penalty), or declare themselves as something like a master-religion that needs to submit all others by the use of intimidation, infiltration and/or open violance (Islam), and the one or the other is leading people back into intellectual darkness and reduces reason to the level before the medieval. At this point, who has been only funny or ridiculous so far - turns into a danger. Confronting such people and ideologies is not just a forum hobby of mine. I live and practice like that since years.

Or like Pat Condell put it, somehow like this: I respect other people's faith as long as I can listen to them talking about it without feeling the desperate urge to start laughing.

Now, you don't know what I laugh about, and what not.

[August]

Don't get me started on believing! It served nothing good to mankind. It's like driving fast on the highway with closed eyes.

Take a nicotine pill instead. :)
Yeah well just remember non-belief hasn't served anything good to mankind either Skybird except maybe create a cultural and moral wasteland ripe for domination by a tight knit group of believers.

And no nicotine in any form for me thank you Herr Docktor. Not good for the heart stents doncha know.

Speaking of which i'd like to believe that God had at least a little help in pushing me into getting checked out after my heart attack when normally i avoid medical places like the plague. Maybe i'll suddenly take to driving fast on the highway with my eyes closed now eh? :dead::D

[Skybird]

Don't get me started on believing! It served nothing good to mankind. It's like driving fast on the highway with closed eyes.

Take a nicotine pill instead. :)
Yeah well just remember non-belief hasn't served anything good to mankind either Skybird except maybe create a cultural and moral wasteland ripe for domination by a tight knit group of believers.

Atheistic religions like for example Buddhism by far cannot compete with the record of violence, conquest and intimidation set up by theistic global religions like Muhammedanism and "Churchism". And I reject the implicit conclusion that where there is no belief in a culture, there are no moral standards, no ethics. I would say that rejecting theistic believing in Gods, Allahs, some ancient vulcan gods or Harry Kruger (and thus: rejecting believing in general), often leads to far greater voluntary ethical and moral development and higher standards in the way that less acts of barbarism and violence are done in the name of "God", and that there is more willingness to reach out for the other, and be tolerant and not wishing to stick one's nose into other people's private business, becasue one does not think in termas anymore what is separating oneself from the infidel. The history of theistic beliefs is a history of ongoing violence and separation and erecting border and prejudice. Islam does like this, the medieval and later churches did like this. the latter accepted that it could not be like that any longer, and gave ground to sciences, philosophy, arts and culture, and gave up the idea of the inquisition. Note that many of those Christian sects keeping separate from the church, and trying to follow not the church's doctrine but the teaching of Jesus, often did not allow to become the origin or the excuse for violent excesses, wars and attempts of conquering (which did not save them from becoming victims of such things all too often). That is true for two so separate sects lile the amish, and christian mysticism (Meister Eckehard etc.) in general.

You may want to hint me at things like the Maoistic culture revolution in China, Stalinism in Russia, Nazism in Germany, racism like the KKK in general. but I would hint you back to the fact that these ideologies, although often being explicitly in rejection of popular relgious myths, nevertheless are belief-systems like the established religions: they believe in the strong Fuhrer who never fails ( a messiah-surrogate, if you want), they believe in the collective dominating over the individual, the power bof the community, they believe in law and order which sometimes came in the form of shock and awe. I don't see things like this in principal oppostion to theistic religon's beliefs. they share more characteristics than what keeps them separate. I even would say that capitlaism and communism are belief systems in the main, because even capitalism believes in something: in the dollar/euro, in the philosphy that only material values count and non-material values are unreal and thus can be ignorred, in the idea that it is one against all others, and the stronger one shall win while the weak shall fall. This ideolgolies believe in different things, but they believe very much in the same way and by the same mechanism and seek what is their understanding of happiness, like the official religions do.

And if you think that is too far-fetched and too queer, I recommend you come to Germany and visit the city of Wolfsburg, with the main factory of Volkswagen. In the auto-city, cars are celebrated like religious icons or holy relics, are presented in ways with very obvious and intended parallels to popular religious myths, it is a self-presentation of total materialism, the perfect waltz around the golden cow, the climax of all possible illustration how deep the cultural fall of the West already has been. It was totally crushing, and you cannot draw paralleols to what you see at the usual yearly automobile exhibitions. I myself saw the modenr religion VW had created around the automobile, I saw their priests and the believers, and left with a stunned mind and a feeling of total frustration.

If one day there would be a museum like the Creationsit museum, and instead of animals and people and holy figures they have put cars into the showcases that are meant to illustrate evolution (or whatever they call it :) ), I wouldn't be surprised a bit.

as usual, what i mean already has been expressed by others in so much more trenchant ways.

Miracles and morals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKcx0biHPR0

In Jesus' name:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZO2u-jDNpQ

Catholic morality:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LStcajxvb_E

Politics and religion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASqJAT1W3r0

[August]

Skybirds patented Wall of Text

Don't give me subdivisions Dude. Religion is religion. It is but only one of the many excuses people have used to justify violence throughout mans history. You're talking about greed and dominance but that ain't what belief is all about.

[Tchocky]

Tautology ahoy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment

[Skybird]

August's patented single drop of minimizations and simplifications.

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about. Lecturing young kids to be stupid and not using what has been given to them (their brain and their potential for being reasonable) in this context I consider to be child abuse. Teach them to use their brain and their reason (that "God" has given them for what other purpose if not for this one, if I may ask?), teach them how not to simply believe something, but how to ask questions, and when they became old enough, let them choose on their own in what way they wish to find answers to existential question that they may have on mind - or not. ;) Those not chasing for answers seem to be the most happy people of all, it seems to me.

Unfortunately too many people prefer dogma to enlightenment, they'd rather use their holy books to reinforce their own narrow prejudices and then try to impose them on everybody else - like caveman using a flashlight as a hammer: the'd missed the point completely, and for me, this is the most depressing thing about the holy scriptures. But since we are using them to lay down rules of behavior for other people, it is clear to me from the New Testament that anybody going to church on a sunday is a blasphemer, because Jesus specifically said: Don't pray in public, keep your religion to yourself. Didn't he? In the sermon on the mountain it was, Matthew 6, verses 5 and 6: don't be like the hypocrites, he said, who pray in the synagogues and on the street corners where they can be seen. He said: no-no, you go into your closet and shut the door and pray to God in secret, and god will hear you in secret, and will reword you openly. That's what he said: keep your religion to yourself - it's right there, in black and white, in the Queen's English, in the holy gospel! How much more true could it possibly be?! Clearly therefore every Christian church is nothing than a halfway house on the road to hell. - And don't blame me, I didn't say it - the Bible did! ;)

[Onkel Neal]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.


So, that's what you believe.

[Letum]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.

So, that's what you believe.

:hmm: Does he believe his definition of belief is correct?

Either
A) He believes that his definition of belief is correct; in which case his definition must be unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about; which is either a "leap of faith" or a hypocrisy.

or

B) He does not believe that his definition of belief is correct; which is a hypocrisy.

At first I suspected this was a paradox created by language and choice of words rather than flawed logic. However, on closer inspection it is quite a epistimilogical problem because as a abstract concept "belief" is unexaminable as reality and/or truth. Therefore to define it as such results either option A or B as above.

[Onkel Neal]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.

So, that's what you believe.

:hmm: Does he believe his definition of belief is correct?



Doesn't everyone? If you don't believe what you believe.... not sure where to go from there ....

[Iceman]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.

So, that's what you believe.

:hmm: Does he believe his definition of belief is correct?



Doesn't everyone? If you don't believe what you believe.... not sure where to go from there ....

:).. I know ,that I know, that I know,...I think therfore I am....vanity of vanites ALL is vanity.

[Skybird]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.


So, that's what you believe.
Cheap shot. Show me my definition of believing is wrong. In what way does believing mean just another word for knowing? In what way is belief the same like knowledge? Knowledge can be tested, and proven right or wrong, that's what scientific processes are about. But belief is dogma, and dogma is not knowledge, it is - well simply this: dogma. as that it is immune to any question, examiniation, analysis, and sees no need to answer to these. It is DOGMA. The above characteristics are what is summarized in the word by definition. Dogma even says you are not free in what you believe - not to mention to gain knowledge and ask questions!

Edit: You could even put it that way: knowing means knowledge that you have gained by experiencing the object, examining it, analysing it, testing it, the cobclusions you come to are what you label as knowledge. It depends on the procedures you perform.

Believing is knowledge that you imagine to have, although not having experienced the object, not having tested it, not having analysed it, you cannot prove it, you canot say it is or is not, that way you do not come to conclusions, but your fantasy of what you believe you know coagulates into dogma.

This kind of dogma also appears occasionalyl in sciences that abuses it's methods by being not objectzive about them and censoring the set of questions you ask during the scientific process. That way you get a tunnel-view as a researcher that ends up in scientific dogmas. Unfortunately, these can cause as much harm as do religous dogmas.

Dogmas are imagined knowledge only. They are like a fata morgana. like the Fata morgana itself is real and does exist, so does the dogma. But what both are showing you is unreal.

[Onkel Neal]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.


So, that's what you believe.
Cheap shot.

It's not intended as a cheap shot, I'm simply summarizing. Geetrue posted about something he believes. You've made several posts dismissing it, you are defining for us what belief is all about, and I simply pointed out, that's your belief.

[Skybird]

Belief is taking the unexamined and unexaminable as reality and/or truth, no matter that nobody knows nothing for real - and you better don't even think about starting to ask for evidence. That is all what "belief" is about.


So, that's what you believe.
Cheap shot.

It's not intended as a cheap shot, I'm simply summarizing. Geetrue posted about something he believes. You've made several posts dismissing it, you are defining for us what belief is all about, and I simply pointed out, that's your belief.
Than I am wondering if we even speak the same English language, because you imply that the very meaning of terms and words are arbitrary and thus we talk about something without meaning anything, at least nothing there is consensus on what "it" means". Different cultures often use the same terms and mean very different things by them. But you and me may be of different nationalities, but still of the same culture, more or less. One should assume that more or less the same terms should have the same meaning for you and me.

So let's get this thing straight, to end the confusion over the meaning of this term "belief".

Belief:

Belief is the psychological state in which an individual is convinced of the truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) of a proposition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposition).
False beliefs are not knowledge, even if the individual believes them to be true; a sincere believer in the flat earth theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth_theory) does not know that the Earth is flat. Unknown facts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact) are not knowledge, because they are not known by any individual; it is the belief element in a true belief that makes the link between a state of affairs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_affairs) and an individual. Unjustified true beliefs are lucky guesses, and therefore not knowledge.
A primary problem for epistemology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology) is exactly what is needed, in addition to true belief, in order for us to have knowledge. In the dialogue Theaetetus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaetetus_%28dialogue%29), Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato) has Socrates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates) examine and reject the proposal that knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge) is justified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justification_%28epistemology%29)true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth) belief. More recently, this view has been challenged by the Gettier problem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_problem) which suggests that justified true belief does not provide a complete picture of knowledge.
An idea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea) is, in some forms of philosophy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy), accepted as the opposite of belief. Often a belief is something accepted, by the believer, as a truth, and therefore resists change. An idea is a thought that, while still being accepted by the thinker, is not held to such truth as belief, and can be changed, molded, or added onto with improvements or suggestions.
Mainstream psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) and related disciplines have traditionally treated belief as if it were the simplest form of mental representation and therefore one of the building blocks of conscious thought. Philosophers have tended to be more rigorous in their analysis and much of the work examining the viability of the belief concept stems from philosophical analysis.
The concept of belief presumes a subject (the believer) and an object of belief (the proposition) so like other propositional attitudes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propositional_attitude), belief implies the existence of mental states (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psychological_state&action=edit) and intentionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentionality), both of which are hotly debated topics in the philosophy of mind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_mind) and whose foundations and relation to brain states (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brain_states&action=edit) are still controversial.

Knowledge:

Knowledge is defined (Oxford English Dictionary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary)) variously as (i) facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experience) or education (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education); the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject, (ii) what is known in a particular field or in total; facts and information or (iii) awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.
“We suppose ourselves to possess unqualified scientific knowledge of a thing, as opposed to knowing it in the accidental way in which the sophist knows, when we think that we know the cause on which the fact depends, as the cause of that fact and of no other, and, further, that the fact could not be other than it is. Now that scientific knowing is something of this sort is evident — witness both those who falsely claim it and those who actually possess it, since the former merely imagine themselves to be, while the latter are also actually, in the condition described. Consequently the proper object of unqualified scientific knowledge is something which cannot be other than it is.




”— Aristotle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle), Posterior Analytics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posterior_Analytics) (Book 1 Part 2)






The definition of knowledge is a matter of on-going debate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate) among philosophers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher). The classical definition is found in, but not ultimately endorsed by, Plato (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge#_note-0), has it that in order for there to be knowledge at least three criteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criteria) must be fulfilled; that in order to count as knowledge, a statement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statement) must be justified (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_justification), true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth), and believed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief). Some claim that these conditions are not sufficient, as Gettier case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettier_case) examples allegedly demonstrate. There are a number of alternatives proposed, including Robert Nozick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nozick)'s arguments for a requirement that knowledge 'tracks the truth' and Simon Blackburn's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Blackburn) additional requirement that we do not want to say that those who meet any of these conditions 'through a defect, flaw, or failure' have knowledge. Richard Kirkham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Kirkham) suggests that our definition of knowledge requires that the believer's evidence is such that it logically (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic) necessitates the truth of the belief.
In contrast to this approach, Wittgenstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein) observed, following Moore's paradox (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_paradox), that one can say "He believes it, but it isn't so", but not "He knows it, but it isn't so". [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge#_note-1) He goes on to argue that these do not correspond to distinct mental states, but rather to distinct ways of talking about conviction. What is different here is not the mental state of the speaker, but the activity in which they are engaged. For example, on this account, to know that the kettle is boiling is not to be in a particular state of mind, but to perform a particular task with the statement that the kettle is boiling. Wittgenstein sought to bypass the difficulty of definition by looking to the way "knowledge" is used in natural languages. He saw knowledge as a case of a family resemblance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_resemblance).


Both entries from wikipedia.

All that is a bit like trying to use quantum physics when playing billiard and living your ordinary life - it makes little sense, although on sub-nuclear level newton has little to say and quantum physics are the better tool for research. I follow a bit good old Fritz Perl's slogan "Loose your mind and come to your senses!" (not to mention his anti-theologic "Stop mindf#cking!"), and separate knowledge from belief by looking at wether the subject ever was in actual touch with the object, and used logic to examine it and lead it back to a certain cause or group of possible causes, then this may go by as "knowledge". Where as the believer may believe to have been in touch with his object, but that object has been of a quality that he could not use logic on it, or he never has been in contact with that object, an so he only fantasizes. I am fully aware that this definition by me is not complete, but it serves its purpose in everyday life, like Newton still is good enough to explain everyday billiard.

I want to point out - not to missionize - don't get it wrong! - that in classical Chan buddhism, and in Zen in general, theology and recorded traditions are dealt with a great ammount of disrespect (if it is different, you should become suspicious of that given sect or school). Instead, the immediate experience of the given moment is what people are getting pushed back to, and to examine it in a logical, reasonable, empirical way. From the results of this empirical analysis is all Buddhist model of human psychology constructed - and I must say the Buddhist psychology "theory" is by far the most detailed and most comprehensive and logically concluded I ever have heared of any, and by saying that I explicitly include the Western academic branch of psychology. Traditional Chan is the most purest form of empirism I have ever learned about, and leaves no room for "believing", without dogma, but with using scepticism, logic, and reason. - Of course, Zen, like so many other traditions, did not escape the fate of having been distorted and abused for dogmatic and institutional interests. That's why I usually do not talk of "Zen", but prefer the old word "Chan", to refer back to how it all began, originally. I avoid Zen schools like the plague. where they are about traditions and rituals and records and worshipping the Zensho, they have moved away from immediate knowledge, and went into the trap of just believing something again. Doesn't lead very far.

But what said Perls as a warning to some students in training: "Während ihr zu ihm redet, verhüllt sich der Patient nur zu gern im Kokon seiner Neurose, um dort unter behaglichem Schnurren für den Rest der Therapie zu bleiben." - "While you are talking to him, your patient buries himself in the cocoon of his neurosis, to stay there with a cozy purring for the rest of the therapy." :lol: (my back-translation from the german translation).

[kurtz]

He is trying to show us that He can create something out of nothing and make it happen.

He's trying to show us that He is in charge of not only hurricanes (God Bless the one soul that perished in hurricane Humberto) ...


The point is we should all worry less and believe more ...

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge :up:

Two things
1) "god bless the poor soul..." Somehow I don't think he will seeing as this god deliberately killed him/her!

2) Given the behaviour of this god I think I might worry a bit more and perhaps go looking for a nicer god to protect me:D

Edit spelling

[Weigh-Man]

http://puhi.iki.fi/ :(

[Letum]

He is trying to show us that He can create something out of nothing and make it happen.

He's trying to show us that He is in charge of not only hurricanes (God Bless the one soul that perished in hurricane Humberto) ...


The point is we should all worry less and believe more ...

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge :up:
Two things
1) "god bless the poor soul..." Somehow I don't think he will seeing as this god deliberately killed him/her!

2) Given the behaviour of this god I think I might worry a bit more and perhaps go looking for a nicer god to protect me:D

Edit spelling

The Christian God doesn't have enough arms either.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

He is trying to show us that He can create something out of nothing and make it happen.

He's trying to show us that He is in charge of not only hurricanes (God Bless the one soul that perished in hurricane Humberto) ...


The point is we should all worry less and believe more ...

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge :up:
Two things
1) "god bless the poor soul..." Somehow I don't think he will seeing as this god deliberately killed him/her!

2) Given the behaviour of this god I think I might worry a bit more and perhaps go looking for a nicer god to protect me:D

Edit spelling
The Christian God doesn't have enough arms either.

its all just bs. there is no god. just an ilusion created houndreds of years ago.
but apearently it is still in ppl's minds :shifty:

[Penelope_Grey]

its all just bs. there is no god. just an ilusion created houndreds of years ago.
but apearently it is still in ppl's minds :shifty:

No its not all BS. I don't believe in practicing religion on an organised basis. But there is more to us than simply death and that's it...

that is not my belief, its what I know.... nothing could ever budge me on that.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

its all just bs. there is no god. just an ilusion created houndreds of years ago.
but apearently it is still in ppl's minds :shifty:
No its not all BS. I don't believe in practicing religion on an organised basis. But there is more to us than simply death and that's it...

that is not my belief, its what I know.... nothing could ever budge me on that.

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life

[Penelope_Grey]

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life

Oh well, you think that if you wish Mohr... Just remember; they laughed and mocked at Copernicus too when he said the Earth went round the sun.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life
Oh well, you think that if you wish Mohr... Just remember; they laughed and mocked at Copernicus too when he said the Earth went round the sun.

and killed the one who said the earth was round.
but later it was proven by our sientists :yep:

[Takeda Shingen]

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life

You seem so sure. Have you ever died?

[Skybird]

No its not all BS. I don't believe in practicing religion on an organised basis. But there is more to us than simply death and that's it...
I totally agree.

[Safe-Keeper]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:s tupid pplGranted, there are lots of loonies out there, but surely you understood that was a satirical joke?

Edit:
The Lord said, "A hurricane will broach Texas"Translation: I felt I had very good reason to believe a hurricane would hit Texas, and decided to do absolutely nothing about it and instead let an innocent die.

One minute later while I was still pondering the message plus why He would tell me this ...

The Lord said, "If a missile were to be launched against Tel aviv ... it would land in Jordan"How do you know this was a show of force and not a prophecy? And haven't missiles been launched against Tel Aviv before?

My faith has been increased ... God is in charge
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a8/Sumatra_devastation1.jpg/320px-Sumatra_devastation1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/83/Hatlestad_Terrasse%2C_2006.JPG/320px-Hatlestad_Terrasse%2C_2006.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/Navy_flooded_New_Orleans_20050901_trim.jpg/200px-Navy_flooded_New_Orleans_20050901_trim.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2c/Kobe_port_earthquake_memorial_park.jpg/300px-Kobe_port_earthquake_memorial_park.jpg
...is he?

See, while GeeTrue's original post may have been a 'Poe', or parody of religious fundamentalism, it raises an important point: how can natural disasters be... what's the word they use... reconciled with an omnipotent, loving God (http://video.google.com/url?docid=-2664049853661834096&esrc=sr1&ev=v&len=1289&q=Tom%2BHoney&srcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D 2wdkxdiOFJA&vidurl=%2Fvideoplay%3Fdocid%3D-2664049853661834096%26q%3DTom%2BHoney%26total%3D17 3%26start%3D0%26num%3D10%26so%3D0%26type%3Dsearch% 26plindex%3D0&usg=AL29H22nq_YFxicsN1Q8bUr_rTomm8aA9g)?

If He cannot stop these disasters, He is not omnipotent.
If He chooses not to stop the disasters, how can we call him loving?
If He directly causes them, He is a threat to humanity.
And if He neither can, nor wants to prevent natural disasters... to paraphrase what a Greek philosopher said, why call him a god?

[Jimbuna]

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life

Oh well, you think that if you wish Mohr... Just remember; they laughed and mocked at Copernicus too when he said the Earth went round the sun.

@Pen

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3182/trollsno3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Not worth it young lady :nope: As bradclark said in an earlier post, something along the lines of 'ignore and the smell will go away'....problem is he spams on just about every thread to get himself noticed.

[Hakahura]

Don't forget folks.....

There is a God and she's black.

[Sailor Steve]

its all just bs. there is no god. just an ilusion created houndreds of years ago.
but apearently it is still in ppl's minds :shifty:
Also something you believe. You have no way of knowing one way or the other.

No its not all BS. I don't believe in practicing religion on an organised basis. But there is more to us than simply death and that's it...

that is not my belief, its what I know.... nothing could ever budge me on that.
No, it is what you believe. Check Skybird's definition again. If you knew for sure, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Penelope_Grey]

its all just bs. there is no god. just an ilusion created houndreds of years ago.
but apearently it is still in ppl's minds :shifty: Also something you believe. You have no way of knowing one way or the other.

No its not all BS. I don't believe in practicing religion on an organised basis. But there is more to us than simply death and that's it...

that is not my belief, its what I know.... nothing could ever budge me on that. No, it is what you believe. Check Skybird's definition again. If you knew for sure, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Sailor Steve, with all respect to you sir... The line between belief and fact regularly blurs. what is a belief to one is fact to another, this is fact to me. The discussion is due to not everybody accepts that there is more to existence than dead and gone for good, because they require proof of some tangible sort, and to require such proof is not unreasonable in itself.

Lets take Aliens as an example... Some people believe that aliens have visited this earth, I believe they could well have... would be arrogant to assume we are the only civilisation in this galaxy, just one in an ever expanding universe but I can't be sure... some KNOW the earth has been visited by people not of this planet... and say they have met them even, sometimes nice, other times not nice... These people who say they have met aliens or seen a spaceship, are usually mocked, their stories discredited as the result of vivid hallucinations, or some sort of anomoly of some kind... Either that or they are deemed to be simply nuts. Because nobody else has seen what they seen.

But suppose what these people claim IS fact, is the truth. What then? Do we demand proof of some kind even though it cannot be given, or do we trust what they say is right? 9 times out of 10, people say if it can't be proved, then its not fact. Nobody can prove how they universe came to be, this big bang theory... load of crap... if there was nothing to start with as science boffs claim... where did the something that started the universe come from?

Sometimes faith, its all we have to explain the unexplainable, to see the otherwise invisible. To touch, the intangible. Its not a construct purely indiginous to religion.

[Skybird]

I "know" that that dimension or aspect of existence Pen is talking about exists. But neither faith nor fever dreams will help you to realize it, see it, understand it, experience it, smell it, become aware of it, taste it, feel it. As long as you differ between object and subject, you will be blind, for he eye cannot watch itself. You need to step beyond that, become the very process of seeing, no longer being the one who sees - no more subject, no more object. And if you think these words capture it, you again are wrong, for you have already stepped into the trap of separarting subject and object just again.

But maybe this will help some people, who knows:
Roughly every six years, all atoms of your body have been phased in and out of your body, and physically you have been fully replaced. atoms are 99.9999etc percent empty space, so is the stellar space in which is earth floating. the universe is just space in space, like soap bubbles floating in one and the same air. But all bubbles embrace the same space that also is between them, so what are they indeed, what is their substance, their "core"? There is no matter in the meaning of "material, solid", only ever changing form that has disappeared the very same moment you think you have grabbed it, possessed it. You may consists of atoms then that before where parts of a sun, a distant gas cloud, a comet'S tail, and what have been part of you will travel the abyss and may be carried away with solar winds and particles. Suns and stars have died to make you living, and your death will mean you become part of star's birth somewhere else. You have grown in these six years, your body has changed, you may have been ill, suffered physical damage. You learned some things, forgot others, memories you lost, other experiences turned into memories. you are totally different from what you have been six years before. But still you consider yourself to be the same person, the same "me", you still think of yourself as "this is me, that is my life." - Who is it watching back on all these events, and reflecting over them? Who is it who is aware of what you consider to be your "self"? Where did it start, where does it end? "What is your face before you have been born?"

Who are you? Who is it looking through your eyes? Asking all these questions? and in some moments of grace rests without needing to do, no more self - just a contented heart?

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

problem is he spams on just about every thread to get himself noticed.

verry well. consider spammed on EVERY topic then :shifty:
instead of the few i "spam" on

[kurtz]

birth -> have a good time -> die -> remain dead -> rott away
anything else to add ? :hmm:

there is no past life (like some believe, even my bro) and no next life
You seem so sure. Have you ever died?
Welllll... I guess not as neither he nor anyone else has any provable memory of doing so, therefore there is no past life. Or do we, perhaps instead take some theory with no evidence and no reason to even postulate it except our refusal to take death as the end of all things?
Lets face the future like the heroes of old eh? and just die and know we made a difference, or like the majority just know we used up resources.

[minsc_tdp]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.

[Skybird]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.

Emergency plan B: PMs.

[Rockin Robbins]

You hearing prophecies that others cant, doesnt that make you a prophet? Or what are you saying?:hmm:

No, if he plays his cards right it makes him a profit.:sunny:

[August]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.
Emergency plan B: PMs.

That's funny coming from you...

[Onkel Neal]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.

Well, you had to know it was going to happen, you know how insecure atheists are ;)

[Letum]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.
Well, you had to know it was going to happen, you know how insecure atheists are ;)

As far as I can tell, no atheists have posted here. :hmm:

[Chock]

yup, seems to be more agnostics than atheists

:D Chock

[Spruence M]

say. wasnt there a religion in ammerica about a flying spagheti monster ? :hmm:

Yes:
http://www.venganza.org/



My God I don't believe it...

[Reaves]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


But I certainly remember hearing a comforting voice telling me it's not my time.

I don't belong to any relgion anymore, God is God.


I don't really tell people about my experiance due to the obious disbelief and 'your crazy' stares people would give me.

[Fish]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


But I certainly remember hearing a comforting voice telling me it's not my time.

I don't belong to any relgion anymore, God is God.


I don't really tell people about my experiance due to the obious disbelief and 'your crazy' stares people would give me.

Could be:

Out-of-body Experiences May Be Caused By Arousal System Disturbances In Brain.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305202657.htm

More in depth:


Nevertheless, medical science offers compelling evidence that many aspects of NDEs are physiological and psychological in nature. Scientists have found that the drugs ketamine and PCP can create sensations in users that are nearly identical to many NDEs. In fact, some users think they are actually dying while on the drug [ref (http://www.howstuffworks.com/near-death-experience4.htm#Rogo)].
http://science.howstuffworks.com/near-death-experience.htm

[Fish]

Dubble post.

[Chock]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...



Well, technically, I've died once too, after a motorcycle crash. It was only for about a minute until they revived me in an ambulance, but I didn't get any of that 'tunnel and lights' malarkey.

Nevertheless, it does prove there can be life after death :rotfl:

:D Chock

[Letum]

yup, seems to be more agnostics than atheists

:D Chock

heh, not me.
Agnostics are atheists with out the strength of their convictions. ;)

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


Well, technically, I've died once too, after a motorcycle crash. It was only for about a minute until they revived me in an ambulance, but I didn't get any of that 'tunnel and lights' malarkey.

Nevertheless, it does prove there can be life after death :rotfl:

:D Chock

your body wasnt compleetly dead. after that there is no return :yep:

[Skybird]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


But I certainly remember hearing a comforting voice telling me it's not my time.

I don't belong to any relgion anymore, God is God.


I don't really tell people about my experiance due to the obious disbelief and 'your crazy' stares people would give me.
I don't. ;) You probably have checked and know there is an interesting ammount of literature on NDEs. Contrary to some hardcore scientists, I don't agree that it can be explained by certain neurochemcial chnages in the brain'S last minutes or seconds of activity. NDEs are not the only phenomenon pointing in the direction they are coming from. Eventually, meditation can point you there, too, as long as not trying to "make" them. where your experience is given to somebody, it is not a causal result of your effort, but a gift. Gifts cannot be triggered or caused - they either are there, or not.

NDE was a field of special interest for me when studying. You are not alone with what you experienced. As a result from that interest, I got those "youre crazy" stares from people and my professors, too! :lol:

[Skybird]

As far as I can tell, no atheists have posted here. :hmm:
No, me. I am convinced atheist from head to toe. I kill all gods people ever imagined, and do so by conviction. In a way I do like Moses did with the golden cow. :D

[Skybird]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.
Wreck this thread with religious debate? Hell, the author of this thread was the one starting the religious debate! Does that mean all others have an obligation to admire him for his religious conviction? Hardly. When you express opinion, especially religious ones, in public, you must take into account that you will reap not only sympathies, but also come under fire.

Keep thy religion to thyself. Not only to avoid the impression of wanting to missionise, and subjugate others to your conviction, but - in case of Christians - because even Jesus himself told you to do so. See some of the postings earlier.

[kiwi_2005]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


Well, technically, I've died once too, after a motorcycle crash. It was only for about a minute until they revived me in an ambulance, but I didn't get any of that 'tunnel and lights' malarkey.

Nevertheless, it does prove there can be life after death :rotfl:

:D Chock
Speaking of life and death this boy in scotland claims he has lived a past life...

The Boy Who Lived Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5cGSUBU8-w

[Jimbuna]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


Well, technically, I've died once too, after a motorcycle crash. It was only for about a minute until they revived me in an ambulance, but I didn't get any of that 'tunnel and lights' malarkey.

Nevertheless, it does prove there can be life after death :rotfl:

:D Chock
Speaking of life and death this boy in scotland claims he has lived a past life...

The Boy Who Lived Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5cGSUBU8-w

Not often children make these sort of claims. :nope:

Tis generally always an adult :hmm:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

I died once. Well not completely... long story...


Well, technically, I've died once too, after a motorcycle crash. It was only for about a minute until they revived me in an ambulance, but I didn't get any of that 'tunnel and lights' malarkey.

Nevertheless, it does prove there can be life after death :rotfl:

:D Chock
Speaking of life and death this boy in scotland claims he has lived a past life...

The Boy Who Lived Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5cGSUBU8-w

pretty interesting :hmm:
but still i dont believe in life after death

[Onkel Neal]

It's unfortunate you guys had to wreck this thread with religious debate. I posted only once and directly addressed geetrue's original post and replies, but I think you scared him away with all this. I would have very much liked to see his replies to my points.
Well, you had to know it was going to happen, you know how insecure atheists are ;)

As far as I can tell, several atheists have posted here. :hmm:

Fixed.

[geetrue]

I just got back from visiting my son and grand children when I spotted this thread had new life in it ...

The thread was started from the joy I had of hearing from the Lord about a hurricane ... not just any ole hurricane, but one that has never come upon land so fast in recorded history.

To me this spells the word broach ... it came out of no where just like a submarine can broach suddenly or a sailboat can turn on you if your not careful.

But the real meat of the prophecy was that God said, "If a missile were to be launched against Tel aviv it would land in Jordan. The Lord thy God did speak to me and I did share the Words He spoke.

Why? I don't know why, but I'm happy He did speak. He comforted me with more faith that He is in control.

Somehow we have graduated to the subject of life after death ... it's okay with me to talk about life after death in this thread, if you desire. I am of course a believer in the resurection of Jesus Christ along with a hand full of others on this board.

I died in a drug transaction back in 1983, actually it wasn't a drug transaction per se ... I owed someone several hundred dollars for my girlfriends drugs and had failed to pay the bill. He stole my van and in the process of trying to get my van back his brother blindsided me with an iron pipe.

No, I didn't see light at the end of a tunnel, nor was I a Chrisitan yet. I never saw the hit coming and the next thing I know I wake up on a operting table with the doctor saying, "you've lost a lot of blood son".

I said, "that's nice" and went back to sleepy land. They said I died, but I have no memory of the ordeal. I didn't feel like smoking ciggarettes anymore that's for sure.

I was a car salesman at the time with a nice bandage on my right ear ... two years later I gave my life to the Lord and I am eternally happy that I didn't die that day.

I owe the Lord everything ... so if you want to talk about life after death go ahead, but be nice.

I don't believe in reincarnation ... I believe in God's mercy and that forever starts when you believe, not when you die.