Madeleine moves the world

[Skybird]

We all heared the story, we followed the drama, we got daily information on it, wether we liked to get it or not. Now, the McCanns are back in Britain, after having been declared suspects by the Portugese police.

The media hype, the financial donations, the declarations of sympathy were monumental over the past months.

What do you make of it all? What is your guts feeling? Are they playacting only, or are their efforts and desperations real?

1. The girld became victim of a crime, the parents honstely tried to find her as best as they could. The police suspicion is absurd.

2. The parents knew who did their girl harm, and protect him/her.

3. The parents killed the girl intentionally themselves, and are playacting to get away with it. -> murder

4. The parents accidentally killed the girl, and try to avoid penalty. -> slaughter

5. The parents became victim of the police who is tired of them and tries to get rid of them by accusing them, and hides its own mistakes.

6. I don't care and I hope I never have to hear about this media story ever again.

[Fish]

My choice is: they killed here by ACCIDENT, but that's just how I feel now.

[The Avon Lady]

I voted 'other', as anything I would chose is 100% speculation.

[Jimbuna]

Let the investigation run its course.

[Letum]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/a/9/2a93b871fdbce5db4047b2a9ff54aad8.png

[micky1up]

its rather funny that day the only people with any information ar the mcanns and thier friends and nobodies talking we havent heard from the people who they were dining with, it seems clear that they do no display and havent displayed a typical response of parents whos child has gone missing im surprised the police psychologists havent got hold of thisbut maybe im the only one who sees this . if this is thier doing than they have decieved alot of people to the detriment of humanity

[Hakahura]

This is all very distasteful

No I did not poll

[XabbaRus]

I don't believe they killed her. All this is press speculation since the Portuguese keep such a tight lid on things.

[Skybird]

Ehem, guys - pardon, but while the 7th option >other opinion< is self-explanatory, the 8th >reserve option< was meant as a reserve only, in case somebody tells me that I have left out one option, so that I could post a hint and say that the reserve means this or that - you can't alter poll options once they had been set up.

Please do not use the reserve option.

[Letum]

Ehem, guys - pardon, but while the 7th option >other opinion< is self-explanatory, the 8th >reserve option< was meant as a reserve only, in case somebody tells me that I have left out one option, so that I could post a hint and say that the reserve means this or that - you can't alter poll options once they had been set up.

Please do not use the reserve option.

Bahaha :rotfl:

You could change it to: "I'm illiterate".

[Kapitan_Phillips]

For me, there are a couple of telltale signs that she wasnt kidnapped:

1) No ransom demands - I know about the child prostitution theory, but it is unlikely, as I haven't seen reports of other cases in my lifetime
2) No substantial traces found - If she was kidnapped, the public attention the case has recieved would cause a kidnapper to deem her (as nasty as this sounds) a big risk, and therefore would want to be rid of her as soon as possible. No traces of a body leads me to think something else happened

[The Avon Lady]

For me, there are a couple of telltale signs that she wasnt kidnapped:

1) No ransom demands - I know about the child prostitution theory, but it is unlikely, as I haven't seen reports of other cases in my lifetime
2) No substantial traces found - If she was kidnapped, the public attention the case has recieved would cause a kidnapper to deem her (as nasty as this sounds) a big risk, and therefore would want to be rid of her as soon as possible. No traces of a body leads me to think something else happened
1) Children have been stolen, not for the purpose of ransom.
2) Why do you assume there must be?

Pure speculation.

[Jimbuna]

For me, there are a couple of telltale signs that she wasnt kidnapped:

1) No ransom demands - I know about the child prostitution theory, but it is unlikely, as I haven't seen reports of other cases in my lifetime
2) No substantial traces found - If she was kidnapped, the public attention the case has recieved would cause a kidnapper to deem her (as nasty as this sounds) a big risk, and therefore would want to be rid of her as soon as possible. No traces of a body leads me to think something else happened

As sad and distressing as it is to all law abiding decent people in all walks of society, child prostitution is believed to be on the increase worldwide.
That also includes the UK.

[STEED]

The whole thing has a feeling something does not add up, we shall see sooner or later.

[Swede]

Funny thing is, kids go missing all the time. yet the whole world has heard about this story since day one. Something tells me they aint your regular working class joneses.

Same as that rich american whose plane went down in the desert. that got alomst an entire hour of coverage here in NZ!

[XabbaRus]

One theory is kdnapped for body parts. One explanation why she was taken and not the twins.

[Tchocky]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

[TteFAboB]

One theory is kdnapped for body parts. One explanation why she was taken and not the twins.

I didn't do it! It's all Frau_Phillips's fault!

On the other hand, blaming the parents is the quickest way to solve the case, especially now that they can't be arrested anymore, so there's no need to prove anything in court. Case closed.

If she's alive, locked in some dungeon, I mean, basement, we should hear from her in a few years, like 8 or so, when she's big enough to escape by herself like this other girl: http://www.parentdish.com/2006/08/26/accomplices-of-child-captor-sought/

[Penelope_Grey]

She should NEVER have been left alone in the first place.

Whenever I looked after my cousins I would never even entertain the idea of leaving them. I think that whatever happens, this is something those two are going to have to live with and shoulder for the rest of their lives.

[bradclark1]

On the other hand, blaming the parents is the quickest way to solve the case, especially now that they can't be arrested anymore, so there's no need to prove anything in court. Case closed.

Why can't they be arrested?

[3Jane]

This is all very distasteful

No I did not poll

I agree.

[TteFAboB]

On the other hand, blaming the parents is the quickest way to solve the case, especially now that they can't be arrested anymore, so there's no need to prove anything in court. Case closed.

Why can't they be arrested?

I thought to have heard on the Tv that they had embarked on a plane to England. Searching on Google I can find no such info. So nevermind that. They can be arrested.

[bradclark1]

On the other hand, blaming the parents is the quickest way to solve the case, especially now that they can't be arrested anymore, so there's no need to prove anything in court. Case closed.

Why can't they be arrested?

I thought to have heard on the Tv that they had embarked on a plane to England. Searching on Google I can find no such info. So nevermind that. They can be arrested.
They did but that doesn't stop them from being arrested I think.

[micky1up]

thats right we have an extradition treaty with portugal they will be arrested and the two younger kids removed to social services remember if this was a council house family not two doctors they whould have been taken away well before now

[The Avon Lady]

From The Mirror, for what it's worth: The Maddy File (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/11/the-maddy-file-89520-19766330/).

[Jimbuna]

Still nothing conclusive IMO.....awaiting the final test results :hmm:

[The Munster]

This is all very distasteful

No I did not poll

I agree.

and so do I.

[Chock]

It's obvious to me that she was kidnapped by aliens, oh wait... erm maybe not... erm I don't know...

That's right, and neither does anyone else either, so what is the point of this poll?

Just wait for the goddam evidence to be released why don't you? instead of indulging in this kind of rubbernecking claptrap.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

That's right, and neither does anyone else either, so what is the point of this poll?

Call it a psychologist's hobby. The poll is not on Madeleine McCann, but on people's mental attributions concerning events they do not know anything about for sure.

That's why I am stunned that so many people have used the reserve option without knowing what it means, and although after the first two votes being told not to use it?! Cognitive training, anyone? :lol:

[Penelope_Grey]

My thought is that they accidentally killed her and then have tried to cover it up to stop them both losing everything. The thing that reeks odd to me is that blood was found in the rent-a-car which was hired AFTER the girl went missing. How the hell could that be possible.

[Tchocky]

http://missingkids.co.uk/missingkids/servlet/PublicHomeServlet?LanguageCountry=en_GB&

[Jimbuna]

Just one simple question if I may (respectfully of course)

Just how many of the contributors in this thread have been trained in criminal investigation techniques or even been involved in what is fast evolving into a murder enquiry ? :hmm:

I must admit to be leaning on the side of agreeing with Chocks latest post.

[Penelope_Grey]

Got to confess I have not even came close to any kind of training. I am merely thinking aloud. I am a firm believer in the old saying Arthur Conan Doyle once wrote "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains however improbable MUST be the truth."

The whole situation from day 1 has smacked me as odd.

[Skybird]

Just one simple question if I may (respectfully of course)

Just how many of the contributors in this thread have been trained in criminal investigation techniques or even been involved in what is fast evolving into a murder enquiry ? :hmm:

I must admit to be leaning on the side of agreeing with Chocks latest post.

Quote:
What do you make of it all? What is your guts feeling?
Quote end.

Nobody here asked for a criminal examination. It's about how the media coverage and presentation of information have mad people to assume this or that theory.

[Skybird]

"If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains however improbable MUST be the truth."

One of my favourites.

Not that it could be applied here. Nobody of us is involved in the events, and could actively engage in "eliminating the impossible". for example Portugese media said their police has DNA traces in the blood they found that can be clearly linked to the girl. Scotland Yard also examined (and claimed to have found) these traces, and in no way can make a sure link of the DNA to that of the girl. Nobody of us here can eliminate any of these statements. We just get influenced by the barrage of media fire, and come to opinions that probably are irrational.

[Jimbuna]

Just one simple question if I may (respectfully of course)

Just how many of the contributors in this thread have been trained in criminal investigation techniques or even been involved in what is fast evolving into a murder enquiry ? :hmm:

I must admit to be leaning on the side of agreeing with Chocks latest post.

Quote:
What do you make of it all? What is your guts feeling?
Quote end.

Nobody here asked for a criminal examination. It's about how the media coverage and presentation of information have mad people to assume this or that theory.

I stopped taking notice of the media a long time ago. :nope:

[TteFAboB]

So who else voted for the girl was the victim of a crime and the parents tried to find her with me? I just noticed that our option, whoever my companion is, suffers from a major lack of credibility, much more so than the mysterious reserved option.

[Skybird]

I explained the reserve option a bit earlier, post #9. It was meant to give me the opportunity to add another option just in case somebody tells me "Hey Sky, your forgot this scenario". Then I would have told you to use the reserve option in this specific meaning. you can't chnage the poll options in writing oince they have been set up, so that's why I tried this workaround.

If you want to do maths on the poll, you need to count the reserve votings as invalid.

Why so many people voted for "reserve" right now without having a clue what it is there for is beyond me. Probably the same guys still go to political elections :lol: and also do not know what it is good for :rotfl:

Edit:
Okay, for I am bored, had one glass of wine too much, and played around with my calculator - currently the poll looks like this (if corrected for the 7 invalid "reserve" votes):

n=29 (reduced from 36)

1.) normal going - 6.8 %
2.) parents cover perpetrator - 0.0
3.) parents intentionally murdered her - 6.8 %
4.) parents accidentally killed her - 37.9 %
5.) parents became victim of police intrigue - 17.2 %
6.) not interested in the matter - 20.7 %
7.) other opinion 10.4 %

[Hakahura]

Maybe people do understand Skybird.
Reserve, as in Reserve Judgement.

Once again, I find this thread very distasteful.
Polling on the possible guilt of parents, whos childs death, has not been substantiated.:nope:

[Kapitan_Phillips]

Hakahura, I understand where you're coming from, yet this is an internet forum where current affairs are commonly debated. A poll of this kind was only a matter of time considering how much press the Madeleine case has garnered, particularly here in England. Its not a distasteful poll, its one that wishes to gather opinions, not conclusions from the people of Subsim.

[Skybird]

Also note what I said somewhere above: this poll is not to illustrate the truth in the criminal investigation, but how media impressions have formed people's opinions - although nobody here has any subvstantial insight to for that opinion in a substantial way.

Maybe people feel cheated a bit, for I did not say that from the beginning, but that was intentional. Saying it in advance would have spoiled it. If people would have been consistent, they all would have voted for "other opinion", or not voted at all. But that so many did form an opinion is something that from a psychological perpective is interesting, because for a rational opinion they simply lack the insight and trustworthy information.

I frankly admit that for some short time I stepped into that trap myself, too.

[Jimbuna]

Also note what I said somewhere above: this poll is not to illustrate the truth in the criminal investigation, but how media impressions have formed people's opinions - although nobody here has any subvstantial insight to for that opinion in a substantial way.

Maybe people feel cheated a bit, for I did not say that from the beginning, but that was intentional. Saying it in advance would have spoiled it. If people would have been consistent, they all would have voted for "other opinion", or not voted at all. But that so many did form an opinion is something that from a psychological perpective is interesting, because for a rational opinion they simply lack the insight and trustworthy information.

I frankly admit that for some short time I stepped into that trap myself, too.

:hmm: The world evolves around, amongst so many other things including opinions, rationalisations and peceptions.

[kurtz]

Ehem, guys - pardon, but while the 7th option >other opinion< is self-explanatory, the 8th >reserve option< was meant as a reserve only, in case somebody tells me that I have left out one option, so that I could post a hint and say that the reserve means this or that - you can't alter poll options once they had been set up.

Please do not use the reserve option.

Unfortunately I took this as reserve opinion (no glasses and sympathetic to typos) which is different to no opinion, I suggest this is true for a lot of people so should be included in your results.

[Skybird]

Unfortunately I took this as reserve opinion (no glasses and sympathetic to typos) which is different to no opinion, I suggest this is true for a lot of people so should be included in your results.
After you have found your glasses again you will see that it does not read "no opinion" but "other opinion". :lol:
I take into account that some evil wicked slime monsters used the opportunity to sidekick at me by messing up my beautiful beloved cuty-poll when picking the reserve option intentionally. Shall they burn in hell and watch on Diabolo-TV their girls being married by that fella they disliked the most all their life. And let them know that I used their new car to roll over that dog of theirs. :arrgh!:

[kurtz]

Unfortunately I took this as reserve opinion (no glasses and sympathetic to typos) which is different to no opinion, I suggest this is true for a lot of people so should be included in your results.
After you have found your glasses again you will see that it does not read "no opinion" but "other opinion". :lol:


Guilty as charged :oops: but i maintain my original premise reserved opinion is different to other opinion.

[The Munster]

Hakahura, I understand where you're coming from, yet this is an internet forum where current affairs are commonly debated. A poll of this kind was only a matter of time considering how much press the Madeleine case has garnered, particularly here in England. Its not a distasteful poll, its one that wishes to gather opinions, not conclusions from the people of Subsim.

Then there should have been a 'this poll is in bad taste' option; you would then find at least 3 people in this forum who have that opinion.

[The Avon Lady]

Warning: Daily Mail.

Photo (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=483941&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490).

[Jimbuna]

A very long shot, but a lead that may lead to an end to this tragic affair :yep:

Fingers crossed. :up:

[bradclark1]

In my non professional opinion if you put that photo beside one of Madeleine it kind of looks like her.

[Skybird]

Close call.

If it is the girl and they find her, I then will apologize here in public, for I have voted for the option "death by accident and then hiding the incident".

[kiwi_2005]

The parents did it.

[Jimbuna]

Close call.

If it is the girl and they find her, I then will apologize here in public, for I have voted for the option "death by accident and then hiding the incident".

Fair comment.....let us hope you were wrong :yep:

[bradclark1]

If it is the girl and they find her, I then will apologize here in public
It was just an opinion. I don't think you would be expected to jump off a skyscraper if you are wrong. I didn't bother voting but I had the same opinion.

[Skybird]

If it is the girl and they find her, I then will apologize here in public
It was just an opinion. I don't think you would be expected to jump off a skyscraper if you are wrong. I didn't bother voting but I had the same opinion.
Yes, but I fell for the very same psychological trap that I had set up to demonstrate others that they/we easily form an opinion on something that we could in no way judge by having facts available. I explained it above what this "poll" was about. Taken for itself, the poll would have been tasteless. We allowed ourselves to form an opinion on very untrustworthy media input only. If the girl on the pic is the little daughter, then I allowed myself to form an unfounded opinion on the basis of media input that had no basis - and I knew it had no basis in advance, we all did. So, like I said in an earlier postiong, I (we) better shouldn't have had any opinion at all, instead of assuming two innocent parents guilty on the basis of nothing.

Well, IF that girl on the pic is Madeleine McCann.

[Fish]

Close call.

If it is the girl and they find her, I then will apologize here in public, for I have voted for the option "death by accident and then hiding the incident".

I would be very happy to go with you in a apologize.

[Skybird]

It has been confirmed - the girl on the photo is not the daughter of the McCanns.

[Jimbuna]

That's a pity :cry:

[micky1up]

it is a pity its a shame that peole like elaine c smith quoting in the scottish sunday mail that the parents could never have done this is ok, but to then speculate herself and say pedophiles did without any concrete evidence to prove her statement is hypocritical at best


the sad fact is 95% of murders are comitted by people that the victim knew

and if its not murder then its a kidnapping either way you cant say it was pedo's or not


in response to the picture in todays press how many 4 year old blond girls are there in world thats what your up against

[Jimbuna]

Good points :yep:

[Tchocky]

it is a pity its a shame that peole like elaine c smith quoting in the scottish sunday mail that the parents could never have done this is ok, but to then speculate herself and say pedophiles did without any concrete evidence to prove her statement is hypocritical at best

I tend to skip any articles that mention pedophilia, published in papers that end with the word "Mail" :)