Can Venezuela Defeat England?

[TteFAboB]

In naval warfare?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2368707.ece

[Hakahura]

As the artical suggests "Sabre Rattling".

Don't think they would make the mistake of trying.

[ASWnut101]

Nope.

[lesrae]

They could possibly beat England, but not the United Kingdom ;)

[Kapitan]

All we would do is send down a fleet with two carriers and re activate HMS invincible, not only that i would have thought they may carry more harriers in cargo ships and also utilise HMS Ocean as a carrier vessel too.

But in terms of fighting us i doubt it very much they have no aircraft carriers, no real big fleet like ours and so they wouldnt really do much to us.

[fatty]

Interesting comparison to make because the Royal Navy hasn't changed too much in composition since 1982 but has almost halved in size. If the battles are taking place in the Falklands and Venezuela can use Argentine ports and airfields, they'd definitely have a fighting chance, especially in a few years when they get the rest of their Su-30s and their SSKs.

I vote a draw.

[Jimbuna]

I can't imagine any future conflict in the area without assistance from the Americans :nope:
They won't want to see a miniature superpower evolving and locking horns with their best ally in their own backyard :arrgh!:

[nikimcbee]

They could possibly beat England, but not the United Kingdom ;)

Scottish factor?:yep:

[lesrae]

Scottish factor?:yep:

And Welsh, and Irish. :D

[Godalmighty83]

well we need something to test the astutes out on, have they got any big ships we can sink this time?

[Hakahura]

Well going by the UK's last foray into those waters against a Latin Navy, 1 Astute should be more than enough.

Last time 3 simple unguided Mk8 torpedos found their target, the General Belgrano was sunk and the rest of the Argentinian Navy fled for port. Possibly the most cost effective Naval engament ever? An entire fleet taken out for the cost of 3 vintage torpedos. What a shame the Junta of the time did not see the writing on the wall at this juncture.

Be a few years yet before the Asutes reach fleet service, but I'm sure the existing Trafalgars are more than up to the task.

As a I said in a previous post this is most probably a case of "sabre rattling".
Can't really see an advantage in such a move for Venezuela.
Not to mention the fact that the residents of the Falkland Islands have repeatedly expressed their wish to remain UK subjects. They have been there for generations and as far as I'm aware there is no supressed silent minority yearning for "liberation".

[Linton]

Only England?Does this mean that the rest of Great Britain will not be attacked?

[Spruence M]

Only way the english will loose a war these days is the same reason america will loose one.

If the people of their nation have no balls and cry and whine about it until the government just gives up.

[Jimbuna]

Only way the english will loose a war these days is the same reason america will loose one.

If the people of their nation have no balls and cry and whine about it until the government just gives up.

Not that I'm 'anti war' mind you :nope: ....but both countries have been doing a fair job of ignoring their people over the Iraq situation :hmm:

[fatty]

Last time 3 simple unguided Mk8 torpedos found their target, the General Belgrano was sunk and the rest of the Argentinian Navy fled for port. Possibly the most cost effective Naval engament ever? An entire fleet taken out for the cost of 3 vintage torpedos.

Actual UK equipment casualties:

10 (Sea) Harriers
24 helicopters
2 destroyers
2 frigates
1 LSL landing ship
1 LCU amphibious craft
1 containership

Source: wiki. Puts things into a different perspective I think.

[Subnuts]

Imperialist fools! With two of Holland's underwater sea devils in the possession of the glorious maritime forces of Venezuela, any English fleet that dare lay by our naval base at Caracas will be instantly vanquished! (Twirls moustache)

[Iceman]

Can Venezuela Defeat England?

Venezuela who?

Scraping the bottoms of the barrels with this poll lmao...:rotfl:

[Hakahura]

Last time 3 simple unguided Mk8 torpedos found their target, the General Belgrano was sunk and the rest of the Argentinian Navy fled for port. Possibly the most cost effective Naval engament ever? An entire fleet taken out for the cost of 3 vintage torpedos.

Actual UK equipment casualties:

10 (Sea) Harriers
24 helicopters
2 destroyers
2 frigates
1 LSL landing ship
1 LCU amphibious craft
1 containership

Source: wiki. Puts things into a different perspective I think.

Yes those figures are correct fatty.

I was referring to the main "Naval" engagement of that war.

After the sinking of the General Belgrano the Argentinean Navy returned to port for the duration of hostilities. The losses you quote were inflicted by land based aircraft and ground forces.

As this is a Submarine based forum I was trying to illustrate the shear dominance of the SSN in blue water operations.

Stategically the sinking of the General Belgrano was huge. It proved the dangers of approaching the exclusion zone, thus denying resupply from sea. This then left resupply from air as the only option. An option long known to be fraught with difficulty. Even more so if there is only one usable runway.

Today 25 years on the same submarine/s that patrol the oceans have the ability to close airfields themselves. Were a conflict such as the Falklands War to be repeated the antagonists would have to be certain they could eliminate UK SSNs. Whilst not an expert on Venezuelan ASW capability I believe this is a task beyond their reach.

I'll say it again "Sabre Rattling"

Though something else for the UK goverment to keep its eye on.....

Trouble at home, whiping up the population against a foreign power... ect...
Not a new trick in politics, one I'm sure all readers can think of a few examples of throughout history.

[Jimbuna]

If it hadn't of been for the loss of the Atlantic Conveyor and the equipment they were preparing to disembark from her, the conflict would have been shortened further :yep:

[Happy Times]

With that kind of talk its totally possible he will try to take some of the British, French and Dutch islands of the coast of Venezuela.

And walk the plank in the end :arrgh!:

[Skybird]

And I thought this was another cricket or rugby thread.

[Tchocky]

Scottish factor?:yep:
And Welsh, and Irish. :D Dare I slip the word "Northern" in here? :)

[Skybird]

On the topic: some days ago in another thread I reminded of the fact that an Argentine sub, a class 209, was close to sinking the British flagship, a carrier, but all 8 torpedoes fired did miss for the crew had attached the wires in a wrong way, so the torps were not to be controlled after having been launched. The British admiral later admitted that the sinking of that carrier would have caused the immediate retreat of the British fleet, and the loss of the Falkland war. I'm sure that 8 impacting German torpedoes would have made sure to get that sinking done.

Argentina was very close to defeat the British. You may want to take that into account before being too sure that a British fleet would win against a foreign navy in foreign waters that easily. I am sure that Britain was not the only nation on earth learning the lessons from the Falkland war. One failed sub attack made the difference only.

In naval exercises, a SA sub, also a type 209, recently has sunk a complete NATO armada without being detected. Take this also into account.

P.S. Venezuela operates two type-209.

[sunvalleyslim]

I can't imagine any future conflict in the area without assistance from the Americans :nope:
They won't want to see a miniature superpower evolving and locking horns with their best ally in their own backyard :arrgh!:

I agree with you jimbuna, The U.S.A. is not going to let an ally such as yourselves down. I believe the vast majority of American wouldn't stand for it.

[Jimbuna]

I can't imagine any future conflict in the area without assistance from the Americans :nope:
They won't want to see a miniature superpower evolving and locking horns with their best ally in their own backyard :arrgh!:

I agree with you jimbuna, The U.S.A. is not going to let an ally such as yourselves down. I believe the vast majority of American wouldn't stand for it.

Pleased to hear it sir :up: