Peace had come to Germany, but was rejected. How insulting! [Archive]

View Full Version : Peace had come to Germany, but was rejected. How insulting!

Skybird

09-05-07, 03:08 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6979295.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6979295.stm)
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504037,00.html (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504037,00.html)

two German converts to the religion of peace and a Turk who already was born as a property of the religion of peace were arrested for planning blessed massmurder in the name of the religion of peace in Germany. During multiple simultaneous attacks on the airports of Frankfurt and the airbase at Ramstein, it was planned to praise peace by using explosive that would have equalled the destruction power of 750 kg of TNT (for comparison: in London or Madrid, forgot what the commentator wa smentioning, peaceful and reasonable terrorist had used around 130 kg). The suspects, initially cleverly identified as "men", had been unjustly observed by wicked, infidel Staatsschutz for several months, and their chemicals they intended to use in the name of the religion of peace had been replaced with thinned surrogates. Nevertheless, they said on TV, if uncountered this preaching of peace would have had the potential to bring hundreds of infidels closer to peace in heaven, in the name of the religion of peace, of course. Police said that this would have been the most powerful preaching of peace in europe ever, surpassing Madrid and London peace-ins easily. The preachers had been members of a germany-wide operating cultural information centre that helps to spread and explain the peacefulness in the religion of peace - there are said to be a couple of people on the ground and birds in the sky who still understand it all wrong - , and one or two of the suspects had been send to our close and trustworthy honest ally Pakistan to get taught there what peace really is, and what the tools of peace are.

This late afternoon, the interior minister said that the religion of peace is not to be put under suspicion, of course. I mean it is causing the thoughts of peace, and is lecturing thoughts of peace, and motivates these three suspects to act peacefully, so how could peace be anything evil. Well done, interior minister, you are a very wise and peaceful and reasonable man.

Peace to all of you!

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6497/peacesg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yes, I mean that serious.

Really.

You could believe me, it's not meant as a bitter joke.

Tchocky

09-05-07, 04:50 PM

Whoosh (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=585820&postcount=1)

Issue - It seemed like German security services were on some sort of paranoia trip over the last few weeks. This puts it in a different light.

OP - Bleh.

SUBMAN1

09-05-07, 05:03 PM

Nice peaceful religion you got there. I wonder how long the world will take it before they hunt every last one of them down? It will come to that someday. Maybe that is what they want. Maybe we should give it to them. What I don't get is how people can become one with a religion that incites hatred, violence, and worship such an awful baby killer of a god? I think I'd rather be dead than to submit to such a hateful god. I wonder why these people are so clueless to not be able to see that?

Good thing this god is all a hoax. Such a being can't exist.

-S

Tchocky

09-05-07, 05:14 PM

...

Whoosh (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=585820&postcount=1)

Skybird

09-05-07, 05:22 PM

Issue - It seemed like German security services were on some sort of paranoia trip over the last few weeks. This puts it in a different light.

The "paranoia trip" (launched around Decembre or January), they said, continues to move on with around 300 top priority suspects, and around three dozen peace-preaching cultural centres and organizations in Germany that are currently under close surveillance of German intel and security services. Regular monitoring of mosques not counted.

Of course this is only the number they did not refuse to give in public. How many security operations currently are run that they refuse to make public in any way - they did not say.

It was said in past days and weeks that currently there is a massive backflow of peaceloving missionaries who return from their peacecamps in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and return to Germany. If they stay here or move to other European countries, is not so much clear.

Nevertheless, that paranoia must stop. It prevents real peace to come true. It also is offending for it is questioning the wisdom of deeds in the name of the God of peace.

Good thing this god is all a hoax. Such a being can't exist.
You are wrong. I saw him, once while doing a longer practical in closed psychiatry. He was locked in several isolation cells, and had his hands bound on his back, else it would have been too dangerous to even look at him. :shifty:

Tchocky

09-05-07, 05:29 PM

I was referring to this incident. I'm not up to speed on German policing measures.

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,2152985,00.html

Skybird

09-05-07, 05:54 PM

Yes, that example was making me scratch my head, too.

Her has been released and all lawsuits had been deleted meanwhile.

antikristuseke

09-05-07, 07:21 PM

AntEater

09-06-07, 08:17 AM

Funny thing is, I actually SAW those guys in April or so!
According to one press report, the group of radicals changed locations quite often this year, and one of their locations was Langen.
In April, I was jogging at my usual route when I came across five very muslim looking joggers, two of them with the usual unkept "jihadi" beards, the rest not exactly clean shaven either.
It struck me as odd. There's a bunch of muslims (mostly turks) living in Langen, but fanatical muslims normally don't exercise in public.
Religious fanatics of all kind are not exactly the greatest sportsmen of all.
Next time I saw only three of the bunch in the fields, this time not jogging, but testing walkie talkies.

I considered reporting them, but on a second thought, I was thinking about the rampant PC and that it might get me into more trouble than it was worth.
A friend joked that I would have the next terrorist attack on my conscience for not reporting these types.

Around the same time, there was a very "unconspicious" van parked in an area nearby which just screamed "surveilance vehicle", but I thought these policemen might try to catch dope dealers selling pot to skater kids at the adjacent half-pipe.
Now it seems to me these were not Langen police, but rather BKA men shadowing those jihadi joggers.

Regarding the arrest, it is of course a politically timed action. The whole group was amateurish and the best thing they could have done with those chemicals is to blow themselves up trying to make a bomb. The stuff was too unstable for bombs in the scale they had planned. Also, BKA had allready swapped some of the 35% hydrogen peroxide solutions containers containers with more harmless 3% solutions as you use them in school labs. With that, they could have bleached their hair.
Apparently a good op by BKA and GSG-9, but the timing was political, to support our Interior ministers (SSchäuble or "Doctor Strangelove" :D) campaign for more surveilance and curtailing of civil rights.
But if you look carefully, it actually proves that our intelligence comunity and security forces are capable of folding terrorist attacks with the existing legal framework.

But next time I see sinister jihadi looking figures doing suspicious stuff, I WILL report them...

Skybird

09-06-07, 08:42 AM

Apparently a good op by BKA and GSG-9, but the timing was political, to support our Interior ministers (SSchäuble or "Doctor Strangelove" :D) campaign for more surveilance and curtailing of civil rights.
Not really. They had run into a (harmless) traffic checkpoint one day earlier, became nervous and unfolded hectical activity, they said yesterday. This caused the decision not to wait any longer, for reasons of unpredictable decisions of theirs, and increased risk of fleeing.

Arresting them earlier, they said, would have meant to make them subjects to lower penalties only, for their intentions had not become that obvious and may have been difficult to prove. This delay was only possible becasue te terrorists considered themselves secure when using latest hightech protection gear to encrypt and camouflage their internet communication. The BKA broke through these barriers, obviously.

So I think the timing is just lucky for Schäuble.

The 35%-3% exchange is what I meant when mentioning "surrogates".

The Avon Lady

09-06-07, 08:48 AM

And the beat goes on (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070906/ap_on_re_eu/germany_terror).

Happy Times

09-06-07, 09:18 AM

Today was announced the founding of Islamic Party of Finland.:dead:

Article not yet in english, il post when it comes out.

When asked if sharia law is a long term goal for the party, Party Leader Abdullah Tammi replied "That would be wonderful".

http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Islamilainen+puolue+pyrkii+puoluerekisteriin/1135230096548

The Avon Lady

09-06-07, 09:34 AM

Goodbye, Sweden (http://www.thelocal.se/8401).

Regarding Finland, you've only just begun (http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id64181.html).

Happy Times

09-06-07, 11:15 AM

In english. Though they left out the comment about sharia.

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id69164.html

Smaragdadler

09-06-07, 11:32 AM

The Avon Lady

09-06-07, 11:47 AM

Smaragdadler

09-06-07, 01:02 PM

Just Dialectics at work...:
http://www.jungewelt.de/2007/09-06/061.php?print=1
http://de.altermedia.info/general/fka-nach-beinahe-anschlag-politiker-fordern-militar-und-uberwachungsstaat-060907_11060.html#comments This is an English language forum. Could you please tell us what this is?

These are two links to articles in German language.
One from the far political left, one from the far right - praising out beloved Führers for their occult knowledge and prophetical farsight in foreseeing the alien terror which threadens our beloved Volk - even oraceling the exact month beforehand!!!
But also the comerads, these redglowing party-swords of the workingclasses - are full admire-rational suprise in seeing how exact the dilactecis of the historical processs is fullfilling itself before the eyes of us all - in showing how right the goverment was in promoting enforcement of security matters for protections of the civil sector.
Not to forget the heroism of our brave police, who had (of course) the situation under controll, whole of the time (we expect nothing less). They were even able to exchange critical components for the explosives undetected during the observation - cute clever guys. :)

Edit - some more update (in German):
http://www.freace.de/artikel/200709/060907a.html
http://www.spiegelfechter.com/wordpress/

Happy Times

09-06-07, 11:38 PM

In english. Though they left out the comment about sharia.

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id69164.html

It turns out most of the party leadership are converts to islam and ex communists, what does that tell us? :doh: Communism, Nazism, Islam..

Tchocky

09-07-07, 03:16 AM

German security services are an equal opportunities arrester :)

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/09/06/europe/EU-GEN-Germany-CIA-Kidnap-Claim.php

Skybird

09-07-07, 04:23 AM

German media since yesterday reported that the successful counter terror operation that was just conducted would not have been possible without massively using information by American intel services that were won with those methods (considered as illegal by international standards and as inhumane) germany at the same has massively criticised in the past. So this is my most favourite schizophrenia in German foreign policy again: pointing finger at the US, but at the same time nevertheless enjoying the fruits from questionable harvesting.

The Germans arrested were converts, and on pictures they did not wear beards. It was reported that as a matter of fact they completely failed to fulfill any schemes by which the police tries to identitfy terror suspects. Police said that since some time he problem of converts has alarmed investigators more and more. Converts are under pressure to prove themselves as worthy and as truly Muslim, by their psychology they often feel urged to put any hate they feel on perceived wrongs in the world on a religious basis, namly the hate on the US and on Western values, and who converted though having been raised in Western tradition probably often is somebody who do not want an "Islam light", but the full hardcore package. Officially, 20.000 German convert per year, but unofficially it is estimated that there are AT LEAST 100.000 per year, possibly even up to 150.000. This is probably a two-contrast issue: these kinds of guys as described, on the other hand, are mostly women, who convert because they fell in love with a Muslim man and wanted to marry him. - Strange what love can make people do. I never would do that, at no cost. If the other cannot accept to live with me without me needing to join his ideology in order to accept me in return, then something is wrong from the beginning, I think. i wouldn't care nevertheless, if it wouldn't be so damn many per year.

However, the immenese number of converts has raised problems that have seriously alarmed the security services - for they cannot identify terror suspects by profiling anymore. Note that the same was said about the terrorists in London. they too did not compare with the profiles, but were fully "normal appearing" citizens.

Somebody said that the success of this operation proved that no tighter anti terror rules and methods are needed in Germany (long debate here). But that this operation would not have been possible without massive American intelligence, indicates the exact opposite. but politicians are already in fight again wether the visiting of a terror trainign camp should be under penalty, or not. So you know what to expect from our legislation.

And al Mazri - ah, don't even get me started. He is a tool, and it makes me feel like vomitting that he could manage to get so much attention again and again and again and again from parliamentaries in long conferences and debates. It's all an Islamic-political plot. He refused to become German citizen. after being rleased by the ameicans, he became German citizen all of a sudden, knowing that this would help him to attack the state. His behavior, his private clothing and his beard shows that he does not wish to integrate into German society at all, but at all costs wants to be see as different, and wants to remain separate. A shame how easily some people hostile to the state are given German nationality. Mazri was visiting Pakistani camps, and is supported and financed by german Islamic culture clubs of orthodox nature - well, it is known what these are. Mazri - that name already was far too often in headlines over here.

The Avon Lady

09-07-07, 04:27 AM

and on pictures they did not wear birds.
Beards! Beards!

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

Skybird

09-07-07, 04:35 AM

Skybeard? I'm no pirate, you know.

The Avon Lady

09-07-07, 05:10 AM

The new Faces of Jihad (http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2007/09/new-faces-of-jihad.html).

Skybird

09-07-07, 05:35 AM

Okay they have beards. But only small ones. On TV, it looked like naked faces.

AntEater

09-07-07, 05:41 AM

Skybird

09-07-07, 06:25 AM

Even 10,000 is too much.
I heard 4-5000 and I doubt even that.
Remember there's no official statistics and we're dealing with orientals here
:D

Personally, I've known one converted guy in my whole life and he was a real loser. Some kind of a person who tried out every radical cult there is and got stuck with Islam because they wouldnt let him go again.

But the Ulm Center is certainly an embarrassment.
Run by the Pakistani government(!) to recruit people for Islam. They sent a bunch of german 18-20 year olds to Chechnya where most got killed.

You are right, my memory fooled me here. the numbers I gave are not the numbers of converted people per year, but the total of the last couple of years. estimations range from 18000 to 100.000, some investigators even say 150.000.

http://www.welt.de/welt_print/article1161158/Gotteskrieger_made_in_Germany.html

But the speed at which this takes place is growing rapidly. The number of convertations in 2005 has quadrupled, as is shown in a statistic this year.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,459544,00.html

The Avon Lady

09-07-07, 06:46 AM

And there you were all this time worrying about Tom Cruise! :roll:

Skybird

09-07-07, 07:16 AM

And there you were all this time worrying about Tom Cruise! :roll:
Hä?

No, not so much Cruise himself, but his Scientology-background, and the organization itself. scientology took a lot of fire in recent months, and had some scandals about children fleeing from their parents ranking very high in the scientology hierarchy and seeked asylum with the police voluntarily ( the parents maybe will loose the right to raise them anymore). So their latest losses made them clever and cautious enough to keep their name out of the movie production now it seems. Their infiltration of education system and politics continues, though.

But that is a different story. On Cruise and that movie, I already mentioned that he is said to perform very well there, (not a given for me, I do not see him as a good actor necessarily), and thus said I was willing to give him a chance now. Which does not solve the principle issue of course, that a member of a totalitarian organisation plays the part of somebody who risked his life to fight totalitarianism. That's as if Arafat's greedy widow would playact mother Theresa.

AntEater

09-07-07, 07:41 AM

Scientology currently keeps a low profile.
Recently I came across some weird tents on a square in Frankfurt.
I knew these were Scientologists because they had used the same bright yellow tents at the same spot some time ago, only this time there was no "Scientology" written on them.
One of the people tried to get me interested in a "free stress test", to which I replied that I didn't have stress, only a terrible hangover (which was true). He replied that they could even help me with that.
I went away laughing because now I know why all those Hollywood celebs join them:
They claim to cure hangovers!
:D

Skybird

09-07-07, 11:09 AM

The size of scientology is hard to estimate since they mix up the terms "members" and "customers", and since decades give wrong (and over decades never-changing) numbers on how big they are.

Ingo Heinemann is a profilated-known critic of scientology, and works as lawyer for a consumer rights organisation, and in a network countering psycho sects. Amongst the many things he attacks Scientology for, he gives estimations of their members pool in Germany, saying that in the early 80s they already must have had 200.000 to 300.o00 members. How high the number of unidentified "sleepers" in economical and politcal leadership hierarchies is, only the gods in Olymp can know. For that timeframe, they are estimated to have done one billion dollars worth of global business (it is not more than franchise enterprise selling Hubbard's texts by kind of a snowballing system, that combines business with aspects of a supressive and manipulative psycho sect). Considering that since the early eighties they have become far more aggressive and see themselves in an offensive since some years "to clear Germany", I would not be surprised at all if their members/customers pool in the past 25 years has not only grown over those 200-300 thousand, but has surpassed the barrier into the million. Time enough they had, money enough they had, and aggressive enough they are.

http://www.ingo-heinemann.de/

So what are you wondering that I am concerned about scientology, AL? this australian report is from 1965, published by the state of Victoria:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar30.html
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/ar31.html

from: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/audit/andrhome.html

And this is the present in Germany, published by the free state of Bavaria:

http://www.stmi.bayern.de/imperia/md/content/stmi/service/publikationen/das_system_scientology.pdf
(German)

Skybird

09-07-07, 11:13 AM

Great. i managed to hijack my own threat. :dead:

joea

09-07-07, 01:54 PM

Maybe you have. :lol: I have some more anti-Scientology pages in English for folks to peruse if they wish to learn more.

http://home.snafu.de/tilman/index.html#xenu

That page is chock full of links...here is another good one:

http://www.xenu.net/

Some hilarious stuff, some not so funny.

AntEater

09-07-07, 02:53 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Scientology, but I think compared to radical Islam they are a lesser threat.
I mean Scientology wants Influence in the existing society, not to turn the world into another dark age.
I know german firms (law firms, headhunters, basically everything concerning recruiting) who actually have a clause in their contract in which the employee has to state that he is not a member of Scientology and the work contract will terminate if he should become one.

Skybird

09-07-07, 06:14 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of Scientology, but I think compared to radical Islam they are a lesser threat.
I mean Scientology wants Influence in the existing society, not to turn the world into another dark age.

I did never hinted you were a fan of scientology. :)

And Turkish primeminster Erdogan just complained that it is offending to talk of "moderate Islam", as if there are different kinds of Islam, and that one should talk of Islam only, Erdogan said. Referring to his logic I also would recommend not to talk of "radical Islam" anymore, but Islam only. Else they may snap again.

Swede

09-07-07, 06:21 PM

anyone who has a beard should be shot. unless your at sea, then its ok.

and Jesus excluded

and Santa

sunvalleyslim

09-07-07, 07:30 PM

Anteater,
I think you have learned a valuable lesson. PC or not, when you get the "feeling somethings not right", it usually isn't. Always go with what you feel.......
There's also a saying in America about your avatar.........."Are you a German Helmet or an Anteater?" No need to respond except if you understand the saying.........

joea

09-08-07, 02:54 AM

anyone who has a beard should be shot. unless your at sea, then its ok.

and Jesus excluded

and Santa

..and Orthodox priests and Confederate re-enactors and ... me. :doh:

The Avon Lady

09-08-07, 12:30 PM

anyone who has a beard should be shot. unless your at sea, then its ok.

and Jesus excluded

and Santa

..and Orthodox priests and Confederate re-enactors and ... me. :doh:
and................. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearded_lady)

The Avon Lady

09-08-07, 02:35 PM

Personally, I've known one converted guy in my whole life and he was a real loser. Some kind of a person who tried out every radical cult there is and got stuck with Islam because they wouldnt let him go again.
"What will be the next phase of the Islamist advance in the West?
If you're a teenager in most European cities these days, you've a choice
between two compelling identities - a robust confident Islamic identity
or a tentative post-nationlist cringingly apologetic European identity.
It would be a mistake to assume the former is attractive only to Arabs
and North Africans."
- America Alone (http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-End-World-Know/dp/0895260786/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0848496-7482248?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189280203&sr=8-1), Mark Steyn, p.90

Kapitan_Phillips

09-08-07, 02:44 PM

Mark Steyn is a fool. I'd like to see him call me an apologetic European to my face. :nope: To be perfectly frank with you, a more nationalist approach to this country would be welcomed right now.

Skybird

09-08-07, 03:39 PM

They arrested three and chased 7 others. Than it were ten others they were still chasing. yesterday evening they said on radio that now they were chasing 20. Today, the number was raised to 50. At least, all federal interior ministers are agreeing on putting stays in terror camps under penalty. Our humanistic friends i the SPD and amongst the Greens still see no wrong in getting trained in constructing bombs and masskilling civilians, they say it should not be rushed, and may not be necessary.

Sorry...? Knock-knock on your head, is somebody at home or can I use this place to grow flowers? By German laws, you need to be 21 now to be able to request a permission for a sporting pistol, and there are still the exams you need to pass, and they are very tough on the theory. but booking courses for massmurder is okay...?

Muhammedan speakers in Germany today complained that the minister of justice demanded (once again) Muhammedan communities to report "radicals" in their communities to the police, and said it was insulting to put Islam under "general suspicion". He said that on the same day when a man, reported to speak Arabic, stabbed a Jewish Rabbi in a town in Hessen. Maybe a coincidence, mabye not, remains to be seen. but every European German native is expected to make it known to the police if he gained knowledge of a serious crime being prepared. That is a rule of reason, and not doing so can, eventually, be penalised as "unterlassene Hilfeleistung" and "Mitwisserschaft". Once more, Muhammedan communities demand a special role and special rights for themselves, it seems. Also, this speaker referred to the legal protection of free religious practicing. This includes the protection of "holy sites", like temples. There are some 350 mosques in germany, 2700 assembly centrre that serve in that function as well as centres for events and political activities, and roughly 12.000 additonal Islamic locations, bureauos and official sites and centres of lower state that in any way are listed in official records. Mind you that there is no know separation between politics and religion in islam. The constitution protects churches, synagogues, and mosques. But it goes unopposed and un questioned that, different to Jewish and chistian institutions, those other 2700 islamic centres that are running also poltiical and non-religious events, enjoy protection by the constitution - on the basis of the constitutional law to guarantee "free religion". Don't know if you understand this - I do not. While Islam still is not allowed to raise islamic taxes, it already enjoys more legal protection in Germany than the Christian church. Strange. and I still do not know a single example of a Muslim Imam being stabbed on our streets, or mosques being taken over by Jews of Christians. In colcogne they want to built a mosque which is bigger in size and height than the famous dome, and the imbicile representative of the wellmeaning church hinted that the new windows (free of any christian symbology - and that in a church!) could as well be the windows in a mosque- by which he said nothing different than that he could imagine to turn the dome of Colgone into a Muhammedan mosque. Let's call God "Allah".

Nevertheless Muhammedan communities complain about being put under general suspicion. The speaker of another muslim organization some days ago said he does not care for the violence that is commited in the name of Islam in other countries, for his obligation is with forming a german Islam only. How comfortable. See nothing, hear nothing, tell nothing, like the three monkeys. - "My islam is my fairy-tale-like paradise on earth, so I must not think and take responsebility, and what is beyond it I do not care for." Not my words, no-no!!! That'S how it was put by one of the warehouse detectives in the store I work in, some weeks ago, and he meant it very bitterly. In that agency, they are all coming from the middle east. He is a Kurd, and - still - Muhammedan. Maybe he becomes the fifth Muslim I can eventually talk out of Islam and make him switch his brain back on. He already is full of doubts - good for him, but as always - threats, family, honour...

The foiled terror plot was controlled and masterminded by our trustworthy ally in the war on terror, Pakistan, what now is verified and confirmed by BKA and CIA as well. This just btw. Considering Pakistan to be our friend is like trying to have sex with a poisenous snake.

The Avon Lady

09-08-07, 03:47 PM

Mark Steyn is a fool. I'd like to see him call me an apologetic European to my face. :nope:
Watch his predictions mostly come true.
To be perfectly frank with you, a more nationalist approach to this country would be welcomed right now.
Something Steyn advocates. But then again, he's a fool. :hmm: