How do you sink your enemy convoys ?

[LoneTraveller]

How do you sink your enemy convoys ?

Like a ghost (who likes the shadows) or Man ( who attack regardless of weather)

I like to get in between the 2 biggest lines of ships and attack them both (from front and rear torpedoes) when ever I spot them or what ever the year.

[bookworm_020]

I slip past the lead escort, move into the center of the convoy, pick the best targets and then let fly! By the time the escorts wake up to my presence, I have already ducked out of the convoy to reload or have moved deeper inside and preparing to strik again.:rock:

[siber]

Generally, I move ahead of where the convoy will come from and sit at periscope depth, engines stopped and on silent running engaged (to shut the crew up!) as close to perpendicular to its course as possible.

Once the lead escort goes past, I move forward at two knots, sometimes passing the outside row of ships. Then, the 90 degree angle makes calculation of AOB easy as... and prevents my torpedoes from bouncing off the ships' hulls too much.

If the range to target is less than 1km, I can be reasonably certain of getting at least one hit.

[Letum]

Usualy at 90deg at the maximum range of the torps; outside the escort screen.

[Canovaro]

Position myself between the first column and the second. Then usually fire all bow tubes, then get deep and silent. I also fire the stern tube(s), if I can do this right away; if not I dive and get out.
I always get out silent and usually they cannot find me at all.

[madmike81]

Early in the war?

I usually shoot the escort up front first. Drive the convoy into a panic.

Then slide in between the lines at ahead full shooting at will.

After 43...

I usually die...quickly...lol.

[TAW_CZAREJS]

I sink convoys usually by getting sunk and hoping that the escaping air from my hull bubbles to the surface and capsizes the ships:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Captain Nemo]

I tend to approach from the front of the convoy at a depth of about 40 metres and hope that the lead escort doesn't detect me. Once I'm within the convoy I turn to get into the best firing position, go up to periscope depth, pick my targets and fire my torps. I have been detected by the lead escort on many occasions and been depth charged but once I'm under the convoy itself there is a brief opportunity to sink some ships.

Nemo

[bigboywooly]

With torpedos and shells :88)

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

The tutorials here on plotting enemy course from aob were so good that I can reliably plot the correct course as soon as I have a visual (and provided they suddenly dont change course!). This enables me to draw out a course line for two ships spaced 1000 meters apart. I race ahead on the surface, at night, get 4000 meters ahead of the lead escort, make my turn so I'm 90 degrees to the convoy, find a spot 500 meters to either side of the 2 course lines and go to periscope depth. Even if the waves are whipped up by some wind, I go to Silent Running and sit there until convoy passes by.
I track the escort on the hydrophones, and I dont bring the periscope up until the merchant contact is 30 degrees from 0 or 180. By that time, the escort is 1000 meters away and ussually 140 aob to me. This has worked for 1939 -1940. Time will tell if this continues to work.

[Lafferty]

I wait till dark then i go in on the surface and use my torps and my deck gun. Now if i see any escorts then i take care of them first.

[danurve]

I like my spider and pounce method.

If that doesn't work, the words seat of my pants comes to mind. :arrgh!:

[VolvicCH]

perpendicular to convoy course, pick 4 targets, wait for front escort to pass, fire 2 steamers at targets farthest away then 2 electric at 2 closest ones. Wait for detonation, go to flank and 40 meters. when at 30 meters go slow and execute 45/90 degree turn and stay submerged untill im sure there noone on my tail.




Have a nice day :)

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

i go between the convoy line's and fire all tube's. then dive to reload.
when reloaded and the escorts havnt spot me i repeat the same procedure :up:

[Hitman]

If I have conducted the correct approach I should be between the lines and moving in the same direction of the convoy, albeit slowly (Let them catch me). So I can shoot two salvoes of two torpedos at a 90º and 270º Gyro Angle and hit two targets. Rear torpedo tube comes not in question because with manual targeting it is too difficult to compensate the parallax without an accurate range reading :88) so I follow UBoat Commander's Handbook advice and don't use it in running fights

If I failed in my approach or the convoy zigged, I tend to look for the 90º AOB and shoot a salvo at two ships.

P.S. I wish convoys had a bit more separation between lines and escrots were farther away to allow more real-life tactics, but as they are in SH3 (Specially the escorts, because GWX corrects very well the spacing for large convoys:up: ) you usually find that browning shots from outside the escrot screen work reasonably well :hmm:

[Canovaro]

If I have conducted the correct approach I should be between the lines and moving in the same direction of the convoy, albeit slowly (Let them catch me). So I can shoot two salvoes of two torpedos at a 90º and 270º Gyro Angle and hit two targets. Rear torpedo tube comes not in question because with manual targeting it is too difficult to compensate the parallax without an accurate range reading :88) so I follow UBoat Commander's Handbook advice and don't use it in running fights


Sounds interesting. You sure have more time to take a shot this way. What do you do after you have launched the torpedoes? Dive in the same direction? Or take a turn and get out of the direction?

[Jimbuna]

From ahead and perpendicular :arrgh!:

[Hitman]

Sounds interesting. You sure have more time to take a shot this way. What do you do after you have launched the torpedoes? Dive in the same direction? Or take a turn and get out of the direction?

According to BDU doctrine, you should dive in the same direction as the convoy goes or at most head out in a 45º angle for two reasons: 1) Staying inside it makes it more difficult for the DDs to locate you by passive sound, and also maneuvering to throw depth charges is critical (A DD must go fast if he doesn't want to blow his own stern...and doing so in the middle of a scared convoy is a risky affair) 2) That way you will not loose ground and can surface outside, gain position again in a quick run and make another attack.

According to official US doctrine, heading in the opposite direction is better for evasion after the attack

Choose which one you prefer :arrgh!: I personally make that depend on wether I can have reasonable chances of doing another attack (If I have torpedoes and fuel left to keep the chase, if it is late or early war and such...)

P.S: I forgot to add: IN real life Kaleuns would normally head for the convoy submerged, diving deep between periscope exposures (Speed and heading of the convoy should have been determined during the overhaul manouver) and then turn 180º after trespassing the escort screen. Reason: Heading opposite direction of the convoy gets you faster past the screen, plus your heading is better for a quick turn into the blind spot of the DD's baffles if you are located. Then going to peri depth and letting the convoy catch you makes it the easies way to apply corrections in course to ensure proper firing location, plus confirm current convoy speed (By measuring change in bearing of the merchants that go by on your flanks, either by periscope or hydrophones). If the escort is closer and you can't do a 180º turn, or if you want to shoot with better Gyro Angles, then a 90º turn puts you perpendicular to the colums and gives you good shot. I don't like it much however, as the danger of being rammed and the little time you have to set up well your shot is not easy to manage.

[onelifecrisis]

90 degree angle, middle of the convoy, fire both fore and aft torps... now, is that the first option in the poll or the last?

[Brag]

Enemy convoys? I should hope so. I will not sink friendly ones :88)

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Enemy convoys? I should hope so. I will not sink friendly ones :88)
you sink neutrals ? :o

[Lafferty]

It depends on my mood if i attack a nuetral and if they fire on me first.

[Alyebard]

I try to sneak inside the convoy from the front , turn 90º and fire a salvo with AOB 90º, then submerge to 140-150 m, silent and praying not to be detected :-?

[abel29a]

For surface attacks I prefer to stay to the front, then move in trying to minimize exposure to front escort - usually moving in at half speed or so. Then I turn 90 degree to convoy course and fire while 500 m or so from nearest column - altough I usually fire at columns further away to give me more time to depart. (Setting the eels to slow if aplicable) I then turn around and move directly away from convoy at high speed to get as much separation as possible before the eels impact. During this manouver I usually also fire my stern at some suitable target. Early war I usually manage to avoid detection, and can quickly reload and overtake the convoy setting up for another attack within the next 1-2 hours.

For submerged attacks - sneak in from the front, set up somewhere in between columns, fire all tubes and then dive in the direction the convoy is headed.

[Letum]

I attack ships from the saftey of the land. Less depth charges there.

http://www.b3tards.com/u/57a418c694bc7c6296b3/tank_02.jpg

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[Letum]

When there ae no beaches about I atack from the air!
http://www.davidszondy.com/future/Flight/flysub.jpg

[Canovaro]

Sounds interesting. You sure have more time to take a shot this way. What do you do after you have launched the torpedoes? Dive in the same direction? Or take a turn and get out of the direction?
According to BDU doctrine, you should dive in the same direction as the convoy goes or at most head out in a 45º angle for two reasons: 1) Staying inside it makes it more difficult for the DDs to locate you by passive sound, and also maneuvering to throw depth charges is critical (A DD must go fast if he doesn't want to blow his own stern...and doing so in the middle of a scared convoy is a risky affair) 2) That way you will not loose ground and can surface outside, gain position again in a quick run and make another attack.

According to official US doctrine, heading in the opposite direction is better for evasion after the attack

Choose which one you prefer :arrgh!: I personally make that depend on wether I can have reasonable chances of doing another attack (If I have torpedoes and fuel left to keep the chase, if it is late or early war and such...)

P.S: I forgot to add: IN real life Kaleuns would normally head for the convoy submerged, diving deep between periscope exposures (Speed and heading of the convoy should have been determined during the overhaul manouver) and then turn 180º after trespassing the escort screen. Reason: Heading opposite direction of the convoy gets you faster past the screen, plus your heading is better for a quick turn into the blind spot of the DD's baffles if you are located. Then going to peri depth and letting the convoy catch you makes it the easies way to apply corrections in course to ensure proper firing location, plus confirm current convoy speed (By measuring change in bearing of the merchants that go by on your flanks, either by periscope or hydrophones). If the escort is closer and you can't do a 180º turn, or if you want to shoot with better Gyro Angles, then a 90º turn puts you perpendicular to the colums and gives you good shot. I don't like it much however, as the danger of being rammed and the little time you have to set up well your shot is not easy to manage.

Thanks for the info and your thoughts Hitman, I will play with this a little

[Maraz]

If I have conducted the correct approach I should be between the lines and moving in the same direction of the convoy, albeit slowly (Let them catch me). So I can shoot two salvoes of two torpedos at a 90º and 270º Gyro Angle and hit two targets.

Thanks Hitman, great information from you, as usual. Actually I would not feel very confortable firing with this large gyro angles, I even read (somewhere in SHIII documentation) that in early war gyro angle should be smaller than +- 60. Did you try this kind of shooting in SH3?

Thanks

Maraz

[Kpt. Lehmann]

With torpedos and shells :88)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sometimes I throw potatoes.:|\\

[Canovaro]

With torpedos and shells :88)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sometimes I throw potatoes.:|\\

So that's where those oranges are for.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

With torpedos and shells :88)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sometimes I throw potatoes.:|\\

So that's where those oranges are for.

No no NO! You have to save the oranges for the U-boat special cocktails!:yep:

[Cezbor]

I would stick to official BDU doctrine:lol: , it saves your food:rotfl:

[Hitman]

Thanks Hitman, great information from you, as usual. Actually I would not feel very confortable firing with this large gyro angles, I even read (somewhere in SHIII documentation) that in early war gyro angle should be smaller than +- 60. Did you try this kind of shooting in SH3?


Yes and it works very well if you have the correct data :up: The main reasons for not using large Gyro Angles were two:

1.- More difficult firing solution, specially more dependant on the distance (You are taking bearings and calculating from the scope or UZO, which is in fact some 40 metres behind the Torpedo tube:88) so the torpedo must have a convergence and cross the line of sight of your UZo/Scope at the distance you estimated your target is. Failiure in distance is then fatal as the torpedo is aimed incorrectly).

2.- Chances of the torpedo not turning accurately, either by mechanical failiure or simply by currents or rough seas deviating it.

90º/270º is however much better than anything intermediate for both the easyness of the firing solution and the tactical possibilities it offers. Specifically, it is a wonderful shot when you miscalculated your approach or the target zigged and you would be too close if you stay in perpendicular course. Changing direction to a paralell course (Either same direction for bow shot or opposite for stern tube shot) ensures the distance to target at the moment of shooting will no longer increase :up:

[Spruence M]

With torpedos and shells :88)

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Sometimes I throw potatoes.:|\\

I heard this story! That was incredable.

[Spruence M]

I like to get out in front of the Allied Convoy and sit still. During this time I use the ruler and plot tools to locate and plot most of the ships from the convoy. After the lead escort closes within 2000m, or round-a-bouts, I take a look at him normally not raising the scope but as low as possible. I try to torpedo the lead escort first, then I have several minutes at high speed to move in and make a un-molested attack on the convoy.

After getting in, if the convoy doesnt scatter too bad, I use the merchants as screens against the escorts to reload my torpedoes for another attack.

Caution though: This method means certain depth charge.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Caution though: This method means certain depth charge.

HUZAA! :arrgh!:

[Canovaro]

Thanks Hitman, great information from you, as usual. Actually I would not feel very confortable firing with this large gyro angles, I even read (somewhere in SHIII documentation) that in early war gyro angle should be smaller than +- 60. Did you try this kind of shooting in SH3?

Yes and it works very well if you have the correct data :up: The main reasons for not using large Gyro Angles were two:

1.- More difficult firing solution, specially more dependant on the distance (You are taking bearings and calculating from the scope or UZO, which is in fact some 40 metres behind the Torpedo tube:88) so the torpedo must have a convergence and cross the line of sight of your UZo/Scope at the distance you estimated your target is. Failiure in distance is then fatal as the torpedo is aimed incorrectly).

2.- Chances of the torpedo not turning accurately, either by mechanical failiure or simply by currents or rough seas deviating it.

90º/270º is however much better than anything intermediate for both the easyness of the firing solution and the tactical possibilities it offers. Specifically, it is a wonderful shot when you miscalculated your approach or the target zigged and you would be too close if you stay in perpendicular course. Changing direction to a paralell course (Either same direction for bow shot or opposite for stern tube shot) ensures the distance to target at the moment of shooting will no longer increase :up:

This is especially useful in fog condition when all you have is the hydrophone and a parallel course.

[desirableroasted]

A tactic I've used a few times, and one that I am beginning to favor a lot is this.

1) Lying off wayyyy ahead, and about 1000 m outside the track of the outside column (call it Column 1), with bow aimed between what I calculate to be midway between the last ships in Column 1 and the column beside it (Column 2). I set depth at about 80m and speed at 1-2knts, silent running of course...

2) When the lead escort is just past abeam, I go to 3kts and aim for 15m. Once I have some momentum, I will drop to 2kts, but I am aiming to come up about 100 m inside the Column 1 track. Just as I hit about 30 m, I set rudder slightly to port or starboard (as appropriate) so that my bow will begin to come "up the line" of column 2.

3) All torps are set for magnetic, and I have already dialed in for depths of 11. T2s unless it's choppy sea at night.

4) As soon as I can break scope, I take the last big thing I can see down the line on Column 2. Adjust depth of the torp. Go. Give a little rudder if needed (drop the scope, too, if needed), up scope, take the next big thing (or even a small thing if the set up is A1, which it should be). And then again.

5) I stop at 3 shots. I fade to black... I aim low at 3 knots to get some mo' to about 80m, drop to 2knts and either come back dead under Column 1's track or over to Column 3's track, then head out the back.

6) Results are mixed. So far, on 12 3-shot runs, I've scored 0/3 (2), 1/3 (2), 2/3 (7), and 3/3 (1), mostly big ships (pyro, large tanker, large merchant, whaler). By "score" I mean "sink" or "cripple" so that the convoy leaves them.

I know it's conservative, but it puts us on the scoreboard just about every time. On our boat, our watchword is:

2 weeks of "Be more passive" 0 tons, but alive
+ 2 minutes of "Be more aggressive" 33,000 tons, not dead
= 33,000 tons, alive

PS: I'm doing this AFTER T2s become reliable, and am using GWX 1.03.
PPS: I'm not very slavish about the gyro angles... as long as I am within 330-30 degrees, I consider the shot "takeable", though I wait if I can.
PPPS: Sorry... one more key detail..... detection rates are high, but (my) escapes are good. On 12 runs, I've been pinged on 8, DC'd on the same 8, but, running low, slow, and "I belong here", have taken only "fender benders" for damage. But this is all pre-May 1942, so I know this won't last.

[danurve]

I've found a new method that requires no munitions.

I just attach a picture of hillary to the attack periscope, most free/allied shipping self destructs.

Be forwarned however Russian ships, at the time being communists will be attracted to you like flies.

[Frostyvegi]

I've found a new method that requires no munitions.

I just attach a picture of hillary to the attack periscope, most free/allied shipping self destructs.

Be forwarned however Russian ships, at the time being communists will be attracted to you like flies.


:rotfl:


I've yet to come across a convoy (early days yet.. and I need to get outta the dock some more), but I think my first few tries I will incorperate the 'Blind Mans Bluff'.. sit about 2kms off the side of the convoy at roughtly a 90 AOB in about 200m of water.. use hydrophons to assume they're pretty much infront and unload all tubes.. slink away and hope to maybe have some numbers when return to dock.. I'm sure it's the safest way to do it.. :smug:

Question.. if you're in the middle of a convoy after an attack.. how sucessful is hiding underneath a merchant (I literally mean hiding.. keeping his speed and sitting about 50 meters directly beneath him)? Obviously the escorts will have trouble DC'ing you if you're crusing directly beneath another boat..

[panzer 49th]

Deck guns and torpedoes firing with aa guns shooting at the deck guns of the escorts (i always choose the biggest aa guns)

[xristoskaiti]

fights in 1944 with nygm 2.6β and does not sink nothing.........:damn: :damn:

[U49]

Standard attack against convoy is
a) postion sub on estimated course of convoy / slightly to the side
b) dive/sneak between escorts in front of 2 promising ship lines
c) on torp per ship
d) deep dive /escape in 135 degrees away from convoy course
e) reload and kill all trailers

f) if fuel permits and convoy course is plotted, repeat with a)

[U-96]

With torpedoes.

[Spruence M]

I've found a new method that requires no munitions.

I just attach a picture of hillary to the attack periscope, most free/allied shipping self destructs.

Be forwarned however Russian ships, at the time being communists will be attracted to you like flies.


:rotfl:


I've yet to come across a convoy (early days yet.. and I need to get outta the dock some more), but I think my first few tries I will incorperate the 'Blind Mans Bluff'.. sit about 2kms off the side of the convoy at roughtly a 90 AOB in about 200m of water.. use hydrophons to assume they're pretty much infront and unload all tubes.. slink away and hope to maybe have some numbers when return to dock.. I'm sure it's the safest way to do it.. :smug:

Question.. if you're in the middle of a convoy after an attack.. how sucessful is hiding underneath a merchant (I literally mean hiding.. keeping his speed and sitting about 50 meters directly beneath him)? Obviously the escorts will have trouble DC'ing you if you're crusing directly beneath another boat..

If you can knock out a ships propulsion, you can stay about 4 to 10 meters from him at periscope depth, the escorts will circle the wounded ship. Reload your torpedoes, wait and study his movements, then jack him up at the oppertune time.

They can't get you cause the merchant is there, and they won't use their side shots for fear of sinking the merchant.

[Jimbuna]

I've always founf that kinda strange.....they won't depth charge a merchant yet they have no problem with firing at it if it's between you and them :hmm:

Stooooopid SH3 :lol: