Polish Shipping

[paul7271]

:-? Was Polish shipping during the month of January 1940 off limits
or was a fair target.On our 5th patrol came upon a large cargo,
past it up was not sure.

[Brag]

I'm pretty sure Polish shipping outside the Baltic is fair game anytime after 1 Sept 39 :arrgh!:

[Foghladh_mhara]

Good lord man! We started the war by invading them. Sink sink sink :arrgh!:

[Schöneboom]

If you have GWX, the best way to be safe is to check the flag chart in your UZO or periscope station for the dates of neutral & belligerent status. Once a suitable regime change has taken place, it would be bad form to sink the ships of countries we've already conquered.

Context can also be a vital factor: For ex., after summer 1940 I wouldn't sink any lone Norwegian ships near the coast of Norway. But if a Norwegian ship is found in an Allied convoy, I'd consider it fair game.

Mach's gut!

[jaxa]

Good lord man! We started the war by invading them. Sink sink sink :arrgh!:

Be careful. There are some brave Polish cavalrymen on this forum. We have a lot of them in Dublin too. It's dangerous to irritate us. :D

Paul7271 - of course you can sink them, Poland was one of the worst enemies of Germany during 2ndWW.
But I don't wish you happy hunting. I have moral problems to sink Polish ships in SH3. :)

[Shelton]

Good lord man! We started the war by invading them. Sink sink sink :arrgh!:

Be careful. There are some brave Polish cavalrymen on this forum. We have a lot of them in Dublin too. It's dangerous to irritate us. :D

Paul7271 - of course you can sink them, Poland was one of the worst enemies of Germany during 2ndWW.
But I don't wish you happy hunting. I have moral problems to sink Polish ships in SH3. :)

LOL good point - hard for you to sink Polish ships!!

[melnibonian]

I have moral problems to sink Polish ships in SH3. :)
I know the feeling Jaxa. I have the same problems with Greek ships ;) (Not that it stops me from firing my torpedoes but I do it reluctantly :p :arrgh!: )

[mkubani]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.

[Cezbor]

By the way, Jaxa what about Polish warships in GWX. Maybe they fergot about Polish marchants in convoys, you know I've never seen any of them in convoy. Thats highly unrealistic, and something more - What about (former British) Polish Light Cruisers ORP Dragon and ORP Conrad? ... and Polish navy participation in Narvik operation,...etc? http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORP_Conrad:hmm:

[melnibonian]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.
Technically speaking Poland never surrender. There was no formal paperwork signed between Germany, USSR and Poland. Again Technically speaking the final part of the peace treaty between Poland and Germany was signed in 2006 when Germany recognised the West Polish border since Poland was about to enter the EU ;)

[Cezbor]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.

Temper, temper my captain. Polish forces and government as a whole never surrendered. There was government and polish forces (fourth in size at WWII) at exile until 1946. In "FallWeise" last Polish tactical group "Polesie" operating on Polish territory surrendered to the Germans on 5 october 1939, after several days of heavy fighting with Russians (from 17.09.1939) and Germans:yep: .

[Biggles]

I have moral problems to sink Polish ships in SH3. :)

This is why I love to live in Sweden:lol:

[mkubani]

LOL, I knew I should have written "defeated by" than "surrendered by"... :damn: :know: Anyway, I had a feeling that Paul was asking if in reality there were any ships "runing around" with Polish flags after 1939. :smug: ;)

[melnibonian]

LOL, I knew I should have written "defeated by" than "surrendered by"... :damn: :know: Anyway, I had a feeling that Paul was asking if in reality there were any ships "runing around" with Polish flags after 1939. :smug: ;)
No worries mate. We're just messing with you ;) :p :up:

[blackdog_kt]

A lot of countries that had been conquered managed to evacuate a lot of ships, both merchants and warships, and kept fighting for the duration of the war. For example, the Greek merchant marine was very active throughout the war and there have also been memorable instances of Greek warships too. Destroyers like Adrias which sailed in Alexandria with the bow cut off by a mine and the British fleet formating in lines on the harbour's mouth (honour guard type of thing i guess, they had written the ship off and didn't expect it to come back), or Queen Olga which took part in a lot of allied operations in the med, like shelling the island of Pantelleria during the early stages of the landings on Italy, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Polish ships were operating under British control for the duration of the war, much like Polish squadrons in the RAF.:up:

[jaxa]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.
Technically speaking Poland never surrender. There was no formal paperwork signed between Germany, USSR and Poland. Again Technically speaking the final part of the peace treaty between Poland and Germany was signed in 2006 when Germany recognised the West Polish border since Poland was about to enter the EU ;)

Bravo for your knowledge melnibonian :up:

[jaxa]

A lot of countries that had been conquered managed to evacuate a lot of ships, both merchants and warships, and kept fighting for the duration of the war. For example, the Greek merchant marine was very active throughout the war and there have also been memorable instances of Greek warships too. Destroyers like Adrias which sailed in Alexandria with the bow cut off by a mine and the British fleet formating in lines on the harbour's mouth (honour guard type of thing i guess, they had written the ship off and didn't expect it to come back), or Queen Olga which took part in a lot of allied operations in the med, like shelling the island of Pantelleria during the early stages of the landings on Italy, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Polish ships were operating under British control for the duration of the war, much like Polish squadrons in the RAF.:up:

You wouldn't be surprised, blackdog_kt. Polish Navy wasn't big, but brave as a rest of Polish forces. We lost these warships during 2ndWW:
- one destroyer (ORP Wicher) and one big minelayer (ORP Gryf) during September '39 Campaign;
- one destroyer (ORP Grom) during Norvegian operation in Narvik;
- one submarine (ORP Orzeł) shortly before German invasion on Norway;
- one submarine (ORP Jastrząb) for friendly fire from Norvegian and British ships in convoy;
- one escort destroyer (ORP Kujawiak) on mine in the Med;
- one light cruiser (ORP Dragon) sunk by German midget submarine Neger in Normandy.

I propose you to look in the net for ORP Orzeł escape from Tallin (Estonia), ORP Piorun fight with Bismarck or ORP Garland convoys battles.

[melnibonian]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.
Technically speaking Poland never surrender. There was no formal paperwork signed between Germany, USSR and Poland. Again Technically speaking the final part of the peace treaty between Poland and Germany was signed in 2006 when Germany recognised the West Polish border since Poland was about to enter the EU ;)

Bravo for your knowledge melnibonian :up:
Oh Jaxa :oops: ;) :p :up:

[melnibonian]

A lot of countries that had been conquered managed to evacuate a lot of ships, both merchants and warships, and kept fighting for the duration of the war. For example, the Greek merchant marine was very active throughout the war and there have also been memorable instances of Greek warships too. Destroyers like Adrias which sailed in Alexandria with the bow cut off by a mine and the British fleet formating in lines on the harbour's mouth (honour guard type of thing i guess, they had written the ship off and didn't expect it to come back), or Queen Olga which took part in a lot of allied operations in the med, like shelling the island of Pantelleria during the early stages of the landings on Italy, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Polish ships were operating under British control for the duration of the war, much like Polish squadrons in the RAF.:up:
It's true what you say for the Polish and Greek Navy and Armed Forces. Still it must be noted that technically the Polish Forces (of all branches of the Armed Forces) were considered either volunteers or answerable to the Excile Polish Government (depending from which side you are looking at it-German/Soviet or British). This is because Poland never signed a Peace Treaty with Germany and USSR, and for the Germans Poland just seezed to exist and was absorbed into the Reich. Actually the reason the USSR used as an excuse for the "intervention" in the Eastern part of the Country (until the Brest-Litovsk Line) was that there was no signal from the Polish government or state for more than 15 days, and therefore the country seezed to exist. In the Greek case because the country signed a formal peace treaty with Germany and Italy, all Greek Armed Forces (especially the Navy) were (technically always) enlisted into the British Army and were treated in the same way as the Commonwealth and Dominion Forces. In the case of the Merchant Hellenic (Greek) Navy the ships were either leased by the Admiralty or seized in Allied ports with "proper compensations".

Therefore as far as the Germans (and unfortunately up to a point the Soviets as well) were concerned a Polish Soldier had no (according to them of course) POW Status either because he was fighting against his "new country" (if considered voluntieer) or because he was conducting "illegal warfare" (since the excile Polish Government was not recognised by Germans and Soviets). The Greeks on the other hand had POW Status as they were enlisted into the British Army (Not that this saved them from suffering in the consentration camps-but that's another story).

[jaxa]

I guess, Paul means that by January 1940 there should be no Polish ship at all, no? Poland surrendered by end of September 1939. I am not sure how the game handles this.
Technically speaking Poland never surrender. There was no formal paperwork signed between Germany, USSR and Poland. Again Technically speaking the final part of the peace treaty between Poland and Germany was signed in 2006 when Germany recognised the West Polish border since Poland was about to enter the EU ;)

Bravo for your knowledge melnibonian :up:
Oh Jaxa :oops: ;) :p :up:

You welcome