View Full Version : How does the stadimeter work ?
Hello fellow Captains
Can anybody post an image of the stadimeter and explain how i can see the range to a ship after i have sent the masthight from the recognition manual to the tdc. It is proberbly me who doesnīt know what to look for. When i do this in my training mission i get a range of approx. 300 meters, but when er messure on my navigation chart it is almost 2500 meters, what am i doing wrong.
Nissum
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/graphics/scope02.jpg
That's the image you want to get a good range to the target. The range readout is shown in the TDC.
I don't know what game setting your playing with but is sounds like you havent selected any vessel from the recognition manual.
First of all, select the right vessel in your recognition manual (when at periscope station it's the one next to the periscope depth icon... I think, the book).
Depending on the type of vessel (being a war ship or a merchant) select the appropriate book, turn the pages and select the vessel you think our looking at.
Press the check mark and you'll see the class name of the vessel on top of the TDC, now can you measure distance by way of LukeFF's drawing.. might need some AA adjustment on that drawing Luke :D.
You can check the distance measured on the attack map when you press the PK (being the red button under the torpedo depth setting) scroll out and move the chart to the vessel then scroll back in you'll see a black marker line over the dot representing the vessel. If it's off you're just going to have to redo the measurement.
Go to this tread and DL the video tutorials for clearer explanation on how to get bearing and speed.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931
John Channing
09-02-07, 07:33 AM
http://www.fleetsubmarine.com/graphics/scope02.jpg
That's the image you want to get a good range to the target. The range readout is shown in the TDC.
Just to expand on the excellent graphic....
You want to get the bottom of the "Ghost" ship to touch the top of the highest mast on the "real" ship.
JCC
I found out what you mean. Ofcourse, the ghostship in periscope comes from the stadimeter. Thats why i canīt manualy dial it. I was reading "Hitmans" excelent "manual targeting" instructions when it hit me. I have been trying to turn the stadimeter dial for almost 24 hours, but now i know.
Thanks guys
By the way, i seem to have read that the mast hights is way of in the recognition manual. Is there a mod that fixes this, maybe one that put the length of the ship in it too.
Nissum:lol:
I found out what you mean. Ofcourse, the ghostship in periscope comes from the stadimeter. Thats why i canīt manualy dial it. I was reading "Hitmans" excelent "manual targeting" instructions when it hit me. I have been trying to turn the stadimeter dial for almost 24 hours, but now i know.
Thanks guys
By the way, i seem to have read that the mast hights is way of in the recognition manual. Is there a mod that fixes this, maybe one that put the length of the ship in it too.
Nissum:lol:
Trigger Maru fixes it all (I think). I haven't had any manual solutions fouled up since using this excellent modpack, besides my own idiocies ofcourse:damn: .
Amiral Crapaud
09-02-07, 01:25 PM
Anyone knows if there is any reason for this tricky "ghost ship"? Why did they need the "ghost" for? They couldn't use a simple line like the German apparently had if I refer to SH3?
All this "ghost" stuff makes stadimeter work a little bit blurry and harder...
John Channing
09-02-07, 03:06 PM
The german Fire Control proceess did not acually work as it is represented in the game. It was simpliifed for gameplay purposes.
The SHIV Stadimeter is an accurate representation of that part of the US TDC.
It operates on simple tigonometry. If you know the actual height of the mast, and you know the appearance of how high it is from your point of view, the distance to the target is relatively simple to figure out.
JCC
I havent tried it but my understanding is you can use any part of the target for which you know the height. The origianal recognition manuals show the height of the funnel which may be easier to use than the mast because its easier to see in poor visibility. If I can ever run SHIV without crashes long enough to test it I will do so. Joe S
ReallyDedPoet
09-03-07, 08:06 AM
Welcome to SUBSIM :up: Nissum
RDP
Hello
Have just seen your Uberboot video on youtube. Now thats what i call firepower.
Nissum
In SH4 you can also set manually the wished heigth in the circular dial by dragging the transparent triangle and not use the recognition manual at all. I do it a lot to estimate distance based on funnels, bridge and kingposts instead of using mast :up: The heigth of those parts I calculate using rules of thumb: 8 feet for each deck, then use the decks as yardstick to approach the bridge or funnel heigth. Works usually well :yep:
Rockin Robbins
09-03-07, 10:07 AM
In SH4 you can also set manually the wished heigth in the circular dial by dragging the transparent triangle and not use the recognition manual at all. I do it a lot to estimate distance based on funnels, bridge and kingposts instead of using mast :up: The heigth of those parts I calculate using rules of thumb: 8 feet for each deck, then use the decks as yardstick to approach the bridge or funnel heigth. Works usually well :yep:
Awesome. Without Subsim, I never would have learned that!:up:
In SH4 you can also set manually the wished heigth in the circular dial by dragging the transparent triangle and not use the recognition manual at all. I do it a lot to estimate distance based on funnels, bridge and kingposts instead of using mast :up: The heigth of those parts I calculate using rules of thumb: 8 feet for each deck, then use the decks as yardstick to approach the bridge or funnel heigth. Works usually well :yep:
I'm wondering how you do that..
When I don't select the appropriate vessel I can only get the dial to go as far as 1500yrds.
And even then when I've chosen the vessel its quite hard due to the 150yrds or so difference.
For example when you want to set the range at 2000yrds (that being your estimate of distance to the vessel) on the TDC the range will be less.. about 150yrds less... it will show 18xx and not the setting you've entered.
At least that's what I get, I always have to reset the dial one to two clicks further for it to be right.
I think you need to have the ship locked (Even if not identified ) for the stadimeter to work. See this example:
I moved manually the transparent triangle with the red mark (Which indicates estimated mast or whatever heigth) to the "50" feet mark, as that is my estimate of heigth for the funnel of a large cargo like the one I see here. Then, it is just a matter of using the stadimeter to align waterline with funnel, and there you go...opposite the red mark of the triangle you can see the resulting range: Nearly 11000 yards :smug: (I have the horizon set at 20000 yards)
http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/27172/2001709007768695726_rs.jpg
Yes, you always need to lock the target for the stadimeter to work.
I'd love to see the Pk marker on your attack map on that one though. :)
I suppose you can get the speed reading doing it that way... just need to do the range estimate with the stadimeter the same way a couple of times, I doubt the range is going to be accurate though.
Ooh well...
Ooh BTW, don't you need a class name for log entry, cause I'm wondering how your going to get the vessels class and tonnage in the Capt. log doing it like that..
Side note:
Came across a carrier last night, damned if I can get the range to work on those... mast hight doesn't seem to work properly on them (I always check the attack map due to 150yrds range variation, I'm a perfectionist..:oops: ) when set at mast hight the vessel is about 1500yrds closer then it actually is, at tower hight it better but still way off.
Hitman.
1. How do you estimate a range to target just by looking at it in the scope ?.
2. I can see on your screenshot that you are using the 10 x zoom mod. How can you use the stadimeter at 10 x zoom. I use it to and i remember that in the install readme file for that mod the write that you must zoom back to normal (6 x zoom) game settings for the stadimeter to be accurate.
3.You write in this topic that you lower the stadimeter to the "furnal". I am danish and donīt know the word, is furnal the smokestag or what.
4. And finally you estimate the "furnal" to be 50 feet, how do you do that and is there a mod or something somewhere that tells you the height of furnals for all ships. It would be a great help as it is very hard to se the mast heigt af 10000 meter range.
Nissum:arrgh!:
1. How do you estimate a range to target just by looking at it in the scope ?.
Direct reading by just looking at the target is not possible, you probably misunderstood my previous posts. You could however simply check how many marks of the scope it covers, then use the formula to obtain distance, but doing so is more time consuming than using the stadimeter, and also less precise at large ranges.
2. I can see on your screenshot that you are using the 10 x zoom mod. How can you use the stadimeter at 10 x zoom. I use it to and i remember that in the install readme file for that mod the write that you must zoom back to normal (6 x zoom) game settings for the stadimeter to be accurate.
Nope....the screenshot is a plain stock, unmodded SH4 except for the 20000 yards horizon
4. And finally you estimate the "furnal" to be 50 feet, how do you do that and is there a mod or something somewhere that tells you the height of furnals for all ships. It would be a great help as it is very hard to se the mast heigt af 10000 meter range.
Yes funnel is smokestack, the ship's "exhaust"
The heigth of funnel you must guess yourself :) As I wrote before: "The heigth of those parts I calculate using rules of thumb: 8 feet for each deck, then use the decks as yardstick to approach the bridge or funnel heigth. Works usually well"
Cheers
Ok i didnīt know that 10 X zoom was stock SH4. I only have 6 x zoom. I must say you have an unusually clear view of a merchant at 11000 meter range, is that due to the 20000 meter horison mod. Where can i find that mod.
What is the distance between the mars in the scope, and what is the calculation formula you are talking about.
Nissum:arrgh!:
No I think it's probably because of the 1400x1050 screen resolution :D The 20000 yards horizon or any other you want to set is possiblke using TimeTravellers tweaker and the Scene.dat tweakfile for SH4 (All that available in the SH4 mods forum). It will however not increase your crew's spotting range until you also tweak it, and it is not perfect because smoke is not seen that far.
What is the distance between the mars in the scope, and what is the calculation formula you are talking about
0.25 degree at high power and 1 degree at low power, I think. The formula can be found in the in-game manual.
:up:
Ok moving along, i have now obtained the skill of getting the speed, course and range fairly easy. I now only need one more piece of info to have a good firering solution, the AOB. I have been looking in the forum for info about obtaining this info but every where i look it always state, "you now have the speed and course, now feed the AOB to the TDC and you have a firering solution". Fine ok but how do i get that info and what is "angel on bow". Is it the angel from my sub bow to the target or what.
Nissum:arrgh!:
PS: I can see i have gone from Bilge rat to Nub, whatever that is.
Seadogs
09-04-07, 04:05 PM
Side note:
Came across a carrier last night, damned if I can get the range to work on those... mast hight doesn't seem to work properly on them (I always check the attack map due to 150yrds range variation, I'm a perfectionist..:oops: ) when set at mast hight the vessel is about 1500yrds closer then it actually is, at tower hight it better but still way off.
Correct me if I am wrong guys, I believe for the carriers you need to line up the flight deck in the standimeter. At least thats always seemed to work for me for some reason.
Ok moving along, i have now obtained the skill of getting the speed, course and range fairly easy. I now only need one more piece of info to have a good firering solution, the AOB. I have been looking in the forum for info about obtaining this info but every where i look it always state, "you now have the speed and course, now feed the AOB to the TDC and you have a firering solution". Fine ok but how do i get that info and what is "angel on bow". Is it the angel from my sub bow to the target or what.
Nissum:arrgh!:
PS: I can see i have gone from Bilge rat to Nub, whatever that is.
If you are getting the targets course easy enough just keep adjusting the AOB until the targets course indicates what you calculated on the upper dial of the PK.
And yes when properly entered the AOB selector switch will be in a position that represents the target ship. The mark at the six oclock position is "you".
don1reed
09-04-07, 07:11 PM
Anyone knows if there is any reason for this tricky "ghost ship"? Why did they need the "ghost" for? They couldn't use a simple line like the German apparently had if I refer to SH3?
All this "ghost" stuff makes stadimeter work a little bit blurry and harder...
The reason for the stadiameter is to be able to keep the target in view and get a range reading EVEN during foul weather, when the sub is bouncing around.
If you want to use manual trig to figure range from vertical tic marks during calm weather thats almost just as good; but, the prism in the kollmorgen scope allows for split-image range finding just like the surface ships have, only addaptive for a small objective lens such as the scope.
Powerthighs
09-04-07, 09:29 PM
If you are getting the targets course easy enough just keep adjusting the AOB until the targets course indicates what you calculated on the upper dial of the PK.
To expand on this, as you adjust the AOB to various values (and click the "send" button to the TDC each time), you will see the top ship on the TDC rotate. The outer ring respresents the target ship's true course, as pointed to by the bow of the ship on the inner ring. If you know the target ship's course, you can simply adjust the AOB until the 0 point at the bow of the ship on the inner ring is aligned with the ships true course on the outer ring.
AOB and true course of the target are really the same information. The difference is that the true course is relative to a compass, while the AOB is relative to the true course of your sub. Since you know the true course of your sub at all times, knowing one is as good as knowing the other.
Returning to the stadimeter. It is very difficult to use the stadimeter at long range becourse i cannot see the top of the mast. When i think the stadimeter is in the right position it tells me that is is aprox 8000 to target. When i mssure it in my navigation chart ther is just about 6800 meters, so here is my question. Does the stadimeter show the range in meters or in yards ?.
Nissum:arrgh!:
PS. anybody know of a mood that makes you zoom more than x 6 in the scope?
don1reed
09-09-07, 12:06 PM
Table 8. in Bowditch tells us that the distance to the horizon is 1.144 x sqrt of height of our eye above sea level.
Then: if scope is 3 feet ASL, distance to horizon = 1.9815 nm (4014.5 yds.) (see graphic below)
As you can see, in my example, the target ship will be "hull-down". The curveature of the earth prevents us from observing the full height of the target and therefore prevents us from getting an accurate Range to the Target.
This means that we must wait to get visual range measurement on our target. If there are no DDs in the vicinity, we can PING for range or use radar.
The distance to horizon depends on the height of our eye when making the observation.
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/5571/heightofeyeim2.th.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heightofeyeim2.jpg)
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