Leading Clinton Donor

[waste gate]

The Lincoln bedroom is up for rent again I see. The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118835199704811801.html?mod=blog

[Tchocky]

I....don't see what you're getting at with this story.

[The Avon Lady]

The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.
You mean two overinflated boobs? :hmm: I hear ya! :D

[waste gate]

"Who is Norman Hsu?" asks Robin Chandler Duke, a former ambassador and longtime supporter of Bill and Hillary Clinton.

The Clintons have been linked to Communist Chinese influence in the past. Where is the money coming from? Why are the Clintons such whores when it comes to their public trust?

[Tchocky]

"Who is Norman Hsu?" asks Robin Chandler Duke, a former ambassador and longtime supporter of Bill and Hillary Clinton. And that question is answered in the rest of the article.

The Clintons have been linked to Communist Chinese influence in the past. Where is the money coming from? Why are the Clintons such whores when it comes to their public trust?Um, this piece is about the fundraiser himself being low-profile, not the Clinton. And you can hardly single out Hillary for taking campaign contributions.

[waste gate]

I don't mean to single out Mrs. Clinton for taking contributions. In the past the Clintons have rewarded their contributors with bedtime in the Lincoln bedroom and if you wonder why the ChiComs have developed so much militarily in the last 10 years look toward the Clinton links to contributions by the Mr. Hsu's of their campaign.

[Tchocky]

I don't mean to single out Mrs. Clinton for taking contributions.
The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

That's good to know.

[bradclark1]

While Bush sells high tech toys to the arabs.

[waste gate]

While Bush sells high tech toys to the arabs.

That is a counter to Iran, which is in the interest of the entire US, not subverting the US election process to favor two people in their quest for power.

[bradclark1]

The Lincoln bedroom is up for rent again I see. The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118835199704811801.html?mod=blog
Sounds like you are against him because he's ethnic Chinese.

[bradclark1]

While Bush sells high tech toys to the arabs.

That is a counter to Iran, not subverting the US election process.
Right....
How is Hsu and Clinton subverting the US election process. Besides being a Clinton of course.

[waste gate]

The Lincoln bedroom is up for rent again I see. The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118835199704811801.html?mod=blog
Sounds like you are against him because he's ethnic Chinese.

No. I'd like to know where the conections that a clothing executive has that can raise so much money. Based on the past Clinton links to the ChiComs the issue becomes impotant.

[waste gate]

While Bush sells high tech toys to the arabs.

That is a counter to Iran, not subverting the US election process.
Right....
How is Hsu and Clinton subverting the US election process. Besides being a Clinton of course.

Do remember the Chinese fellow discovered removing information from Los Alamos? The Chinese boarders in the Lincoln bedroom? It is always better to be parainoid when it comes to national security than wrong..........wouldn't you agree bradclark?

[bradclark1]

The Lincoln bedroom is up for rent again I see. The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118835199704811801.html?mod=blog
Sounds like you are against him because he's ethnic Chinese.

No. I'd like to know where the conections that a clothing executive has that can raise so much money. Based on the past Clinton links to the ChiComs the issue becomes impotant.
I didn't hear questioning when Bush broke every record for campaign donations? Now you are saying an ethnic Chinese is a ChiCom because he donated to a Clinton. Only white people are allowed to donate in your book?

[waste gate]

The Lincoln bedroom is up for rent again I see. The Clintons are the Anna Nicole Smith's of politics.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118835199704811801.html?mod=blog
Sounds like you are against him because he's ethnic Chinese.

No. I'd like to know where the conections that a clothing executive has that can raise so much money. Based on the past Clinton links to the ChiComs the issue becomes impotant.
I didn't hear questioning when Bush broke every record for campaign donations? Now you are saying an ethnic Chinese is a ChiCom because he donated to a Clinton. Only white people are allowed to donate in your book?

Based on the past Clinton links to the ChiComs the issue becomes impotant.

Don't paint me a racist because that isn't the truth. I believe too much in the rights of all man. Even the unborn.

[Tchocky]

Er, not really.

EDIT - To the first sentence, that is.

[Lurchi]

Pretty reasonable investment on part of the chinese (if it is true :D ). With this they certainly do a favour to the rest of the world :know:.

[waste gate]

Pretty reasonable investment on part of the chinese (if it is true :D ). With this they certainly do a favour to the rest of the world :know:.

Why would you think the Chinese want to do the rest of the world a favor?

[Sea Demon]

I didn't hear questioning when Bush broke every record for campaign donations? Now you are saying an ethnic Chinese is a ChiCom because he donated to a Clinton. Only white people are allowed to donate in your book?
Actually Johnny Chung should ring a bell. When asked if he was an agent for China under oath, he pleaded the 5th multiple times. Johnny Chung passed alot of money through the DNC. Charlie trie and John Huang are others who were involved directly with China's government. And they both gave money to the DNC in the millions. As a Lockheed contractor, I met people who worked at Loral that could tell you some of the dangerous stuff Clinton and his commerce department gave to the hostile Chinese government. And the guidance technology is being applied directly into China's DF-31 program. I hope you aren't defending Clinton, while his direct actions have put your grandchildren in the crosshairs of Chinese missiles.

[Sea Demon]

This is the thing that angers me most about the Democrats. They think it's perfectly fine to give away technology of this scope.....if it stuffs their campaign pockets. And their constituents blindly find excuses for these types of traitorous actions. It took an act of George W. Bush to stop the Commerce Department from the technology giveaways of the Clinton era to China. This is one of the biggest reasons I wonder how anybody in their right mind could actually go into a voting booth and vote for those who are bought and paid for by the enemies of this country (ie Hillary and alot of the Democrat party). It blows my mind.

[waste gate]

Representatives for each of the Democrats declined to comment for this story.

Perhaps that is because Mr. Hsu is a fugitave from justice?

[Tchocky]

Representatives for each of the Democrats declined to comment for this story.

Perhaps that is because Mr. Hsu is a fugitave from justice? Wow, are we guessing things now?

I thought about this line, it seemed curious. Then I realised that there's nothing they can say, and no reason to say anything. Come on, if they had commented, what could they possibly say?

"Thank you" - Oh yeah, what favours are ya gonna do for him then?

"Mr Hsu is free to donate his money in whatever way he sees fit" - Suuuure, how many nights in the Lincoln bedroom would that buy him?

"There are no political strings attached to the is donation, and no political favours are involved" - If you have to say that, then you're *obviously* lying.

Seriously, waste gate, have you *any* info to back up this ChiCom/fugitive stuff?

Oh, and as for the China angle, does anyone think that military action could get them in a better position than they're in now? They've got the US, financially speaking, right where they want them.

EDIT THE SECOND - Let me edit once more, it appears he is a fugitive from justice. Apologies!

This is very strange

Click (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-na-hsu29aug29,0,5657848.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel)

[waste gate]

Representatives for each of the Democrats declined to comment for this story.

Perhaps that is because Mr. Hsu is a fugitave from justice? Wow, are we guessing things now?

I thought about this line, it seemed curious. Then I realised that there's nothing they can say, and no reason to say anything. Come on, if they had commented, what could they possibly say?

"Thank you" - Oh yeah, what favours are ya gonna do for him then?

"Mr Hsu is free to donate his money in whatever way he sees fit" - Suuuure, how many nights in the Lincoln bedroom would that buy him?

"There are no political strings attached to the is donation, and no political favours are involved" - If you have to say that, then you're *obviously* lying.

Seriously, waste gate, have you *any* info to back up this ChiCom/fugitive stuff?

Oh, and as for the China angle, does anyone think that military action could get them in a better position than they're in now? They've got the US, financially speaking, right where they want them.

EDIT THE SECOND - Let me edit once more, it appears he is a fugitive from justice. Apologies!

This is very strange

Click (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-na-hsu29aug29,0,5657848.story?track=mostviewed-storylevel)

Now you are starting to understand my and many others concern.

[bradclark1]

I didn't hear questioning when Bush broke every record for campaign donations? Now you are saying an ethnic Chinese is a ChiCom because he donated to a Clinton. Only white people are allowed to donate in your book?
Actually Johnny Chung should ring a bell. When asked if he was an agent for China under oath, he pleaded the 5th multiple times. Johnny Chung passed alot of money through the DNC. Charlie trie and John Huang are others who were involved directly with China's government. And they both gave money to the DNC in the millions. As a Lockheed contractor, I met people who worked at Loral that could tell you some of the dangerous stuff Clinton and his commerce department gave to the hostile Chinese government. And the guidance technology is being applied directly into China's DF-31 program. I hope you aren't defending Clinton, while his direct actions have put your grandchildren in the crosshairs of Chinese missiles.
Didn't the Arabs donate large amounts to Bush? Who's killing Americans right now? Who's backing terrorists? Who selling high technology weapon systems to Arabs?
The Great Technology Giveaway?
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19980901facomment1412/michael-hirsh/the-great-technology-giveaway.html

The US government has accused the Lockheed Martin aerospace company of giving sensitive rocket technology to China in contravention of US export controls.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/704327.stm

Lockheed Martin Corp. has consented to pay a US$13 million fine for charges that it illegally helped the Chinese government correct critical defects in a rocket motor used in an upper stage for the Long March 2E launch vehicle.
http://www.spaceandtech.com/digest/sd2000-15/sd2000-15-001.shtml

That makes you a traitors doesn't it? How can you sleep at night knowing you have helped put everyone in this country in danger? Clinton gave them that technology huh!!!!!

[Sea Demon]

Didn't the Arabs donate large amounts to Bush? Who's killing Americans right now? Who's backing terrorists? Who selling high technology weapon systems to Arabs?
The Great Technology Giveaway?
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19980901facomment1412/michael-hirsh/the-great-technology-giveaway.html

The US government has accused the Lockheed Martin aerospace company of giving sensitive rocket technology to China in contravention of US export controls.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/704327.stm

Lockheed Martin Corp. has consented to pay a US$13 million fine for charges that it illegally helped the Chinese government correct critical defects in a rocket motor used in an upper stage for the Long March 2E launch vehicle.
http://www.spaceandtech.com/digest/sd2000-15/sd2000-15-001.shtml

That makes you a traitors doesn't it? How can you sleep at night knowing you have helped put everyone in this country in danger? Clinton gave them that technology huh!!!!!

Actually, your one dimensional thinking on geopolitics is very prevalent in the realm of Democrat thought. The Chinese government and situation is a very different matter from the various factions of arab people that we do our dealings with. Some arab nations are friendly, some are not. China is but one country....with a very hostile intent on us. About Lockheed, I was a contractor on a commercial space interest here in America. Not on any project that dealt with China. And yes, I would agree, Lockheed, Hughes, etc. did us no favors here. I myself never accused those unfortunate and sometimes unwilling people from being used as a vehicle of treason of the Clinton and Democrat machine. It is what it is Brad. And like it or not, you voting for those people are helping to give our enemies tools with which to kill us. Bush isn't supporting Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or the hostile/terrorists within Israel. Clinton was directly giving military aid to the Chinese military by classifying some technologies as "dual use". This is unforgivable. Quibble all you want. But it doesn't change things.

[Sea Demon]

Oh, and as for the China angle, does anyone think that military action could get them in a better position than they're in now? They've got the US, financially speaking, right where they want them.

This is where I'll agree with you partially. But they couldn't hurt us without ultimately destroying themselves financially. And we're in a better position to recover from any long term and harsh economic downturn than they are. The
Chinese leaders are in a bad position if their economy goes into the pot. And they know it. Both the U.S. and China know they're not going to do anything negative in this area.

[waste gate]

I didn't hear questioning when Bush broke every record for campaign donations? Now you are saying an ethnic Chinese is a ChiCom because he donated to a Clinton. Only white people are allowed to donate in your book?
Actually Johnny Chung should ring a bell. When asked if he was an agent for China under oath, he pleaded the 5th multiple times. Johnny Chung passed alot of money through the DNC. Charlie trie and John Huang are others who were involved directly with China's government. And they both gave money to the DNC in the millions. As a Lockheed contractor, I met people who worked at Loral that could tell you some of the dangerous stuff Clinton and his commerce department gave to the hostile Chinese government. And the guidance technology is being applied directly into China's DF-31 program. I hope you aren't defending Clinton, while his direct actions have put your grandchildren in the crosshairs of Chinese missiles.
Didn't the Arabs donate large amounts to Bush? Who's killing Americans right now? Who's backing terrorists? Who selling high technology weapon systems to Arabs?
The Great Technology Giveaway?
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19980901facomment1412/michael-hirsh/the-great-technology-giveaway.html

The US government has accused the Lockheed Martin aerospace company of giving sensitive rocket technology to China in contravention of US export controls.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/704327.stm

Lockheed Martin Corp. has consented to pay a US$13 million fine for charges that it illegally helped the Chinese government correct critical defects in a rocket motor used in an upper stage for the Long March 2E launch vehicle.
http://www.spaceandtech.com/digest/sd2000-15/sd2000-15-001.shtml

That makes you a traitors doesn't it? How can you sleep at night knowing you have helped put everyone in this country in danger? Clinton gave them that technology huh!!!!!

I thought you lectured the rest of us concerning 'one abuse doesn't justify another'.
Yet this is what you want us to accept in this instance??

[bradclark1]

Quibble all you want. But it doesn't change things.
Oh but it does. It shows how hypocritical Republicans can be. You work for a traitorous organization that illegally gave top secret missile and satellite technology to Communist China. That was not dual use technology. Your company sold secret information to the enemy and you call that quibbling?

UAE Gave $1 Million to Bush Library
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17971

Speaking of Arabs. It's kind of funny that Bush goes on about Iran supporting Shia's etc, but remains strangely quiet about his friends the Saudis backing Sunni insurgents. I wounder how many Americans Saudi dollars have killed, and we are giving them high tech weapons systems too.
Oh!!! that means they back Al Qaeda too doesn't it?

Open your eyes.

So basically, your company and Republicans are not friends of America.

[bradclark1]

I thought you lectured the rest of us concerning 'one abuse doesn't justify another'.
Yet this is what you want us to accept in this instance??
Err, those are top secret technologies I listed. Not dual use technologies. But hey!!! Seeing as they are a major GOP contributor you are trying to cover for them?

[bradclark1]

Read these on dual use technology. Pay attention when you read the second one.

http://www.espionageinfo.com/De-Eb/Dual-Use-Technology.html

Read this carefully.
http://www.espionageinfo.com/Re-Se/Satellite-Technology-Exports-to-the-People-s-Republic-of-China-PRC.html


And a trivia piece from Department of Defence
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=45590

[Sea Demon]

Brad, you have no idea what you're talking about. :lol: My company was used as a personal tool to get campaign donations for the corrupt Democrat party during the 90's by giving away things the Pentagon deemed for military purposes. The Chinese were the destination for large amounts of sensitive space related technologies from several different organizations. Basically, Clinton called technologies that could be used for military purposes as "dual use". Which in fact, the Pentagon and many within Lockheed itself protested. The Clinton Commerce department basically took control of these technologies away from those parties at Lockheed, Loral, and Hughes. Nothing anybody there could do. Now a few of the heads of these organizations were definitely in on the gig. And they too were traitors. But you are a fool for blaming the average engineers and scientists who worked at Lockheed at the time. And no, I wasn't there then.

Using your Democrat style logic, the troops themselves are to blame for being in Iraq. But you also want to blame Bush personally for Abu Ghraib. Then you remarkably want to lay blame for Chinese tech transfers at the engineers at Loral and Lockheed so your precious Bill Clinton "cult of personality" is faultless in your own guilt ridden mind. You want it all ways. I do at this point expect it from Democrats now. The fact is, the Democrats positions on National Security issues is indefensible. Their track record is horrid. And you're desperate to try to make it look otherwise. The truth is, this failed Congress is in shambles. And many of them are in the same boat, but with other U.S. enemies. Mainly the terrorists running around Iraq. I'm actually not surprised about the main story in this topic about Mr. Hsu. As it comes out, I'm sure we won't be surprised how Hillary is already bought and paid for by China.

[The Avon Lady]

I'm not sure any longer what point is being argued here. I tend to agree with both sides.
The Chinese were the destination for large amounts of sensitive space related technologies from several different organizations.
Not just China (http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2007/08/exclusive_top_m.html).

Speaking of Mr. Hsu (gezundheit!), have you read about his little house on the prairy (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=special_page_campaig n2008_topbox)? :hmm:

[waste gate]

There must have been something to this story based upon the reaction:

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s campaign said yesterday that it would give to charity $23,000 it had received from a prominent Democratic donor, and review thousands of dollars more that he had raised, after learning that the authorities in California had a warrant for his arrest stemming from a 1991 fraud case.

Al Franken, a Democratic Senate candidate in Minnesota, said he would divest his campaign of Mr. Hsu’s donations, as did Representatives Michael M. Honda and Doris O. Matsui of California and Representative Joe Sestak of Pennsylvania, all Democrats.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/30/us/politics/30bundler.html?ex=1189051200&en=00ee337c9e083c5f&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS

[bradclark1]

Brad, you have no idea what you're talking about. :lol: My company was used as a personal tool to get campaign donations for the corrupt Democrat party during the 90's by giving away things the Pentagon deemed for military purposes. The Chinese were the destination for large amounts of sensitive space related technologies from several different organizations. Basically, Clinton called technologies that could be used for military purposes as "dual use". Which in fact, the Pentagon and many within Lockheed itself protested. The Clinton Commerce department basically took control of these technologies away from those parties at Lockheed, Loral, and Hughes. Nothing anybody there could do. Now a few of the heads of these organizations were definitely in on the gig. And they too were traitors. But you are a fool for blaming the average engineers and scientists who worked at Lockheed at the time. And no, I wasn't there then.




Using your Democrat style logic, the troops themselves are to blame for being in Iraq. But you also want to blame Bush personally for Abu Ghraib. Then you remarkably want to lay blame for Chinese tech transfers at the engineers at Loral and Lockheed so your precious Bill Clinton "cult of personality" is faultless in your own guilt ridden mind. You want it all ways. I do at this point expect it from Democrats now. The fact is, the Democrats positions on National Security issues is indefensible. Their track record is horrid. And you're desperate to try to make it look otherwise. The truth is, this failed Congress is in shambles. And many of them are in the same boat, but with other U.S. enemies. Mainly the terrorists running around Iraq. I'm actually not surprised about the main story in this topic about Mr. Hsu. As it comes out, I'm sure we won't be surprised how Hillary is already bought and paid for by China.

:rotfl: Go back and read your previous posts Sea Demon. That logic came directly from you. You just don't like your own logic thrown back at you.
If you read my links I posted on the dual technology and Clinton (which I tend to doubt because of your continued rhetoric) you would see that he did no more then what two prior Republican presidents did except for scum that he is he took donations for expanding it. The only thing that China gained from Clinton was satellite technology that could be used to blind satellites which evidently they are not using because they are using missile technology that your company sold them.
You don't change ever. I notice that you conveniently ignored your parties support of terrorist backers. Shouldn't be surprised though considering the Saudi's have Bush in their back pocket and you support that. You support people that get Americans killed and that is a pure unadulterated fact.
What on earth are you going on about Abu Ghraib? What does Abu Ghraib have to do with the price of tea in China?
Speaking of China! China is now the second largest holder of U.S. debt, with more than $260 billion in U.S. Treasury securities. the largest bilateral trade deficit in American history. Which president and party has this happened under? Since Bush took office, the amount of U.S. debt owned by foreigners has increased 120%, from approximately $1 trillion in January 2001 to approximately $2.2 trillion in February 2006. It took 42 American Presidents and 224 years to build up that amount ($1 trillion) of foreign-held debt. Who's China's friend?

Here's another set of premium GOP contributors acting traitor.
In 2003, Boeing and Hughes Electronics Corp. agreed to jointly pay $32 million in civil penalties to settle U.S. government charges that they improperly shared rocket technology with China in the 1990s.
It seems that the biggest GOP contributors gave China their whole rocket technology. The Republican Party:- Selling out America!

I'm sure Israel is feeling more secure with Bush giving high technology weapons to their neighbors also.

If these Clinton donations are bent they'll be gotten.

Everything you support is either selling us out, taking bread from our tables, or is helping to kill the men and women of our military. With friends like that who needs enemies. Sleep well.

[bradclark1]

I'm not sure any longer what point is being argued here. I tend to agree with both sides.

This is just our bi-weekly political knife fight. :)

[The Avon Lady]

I'm not sure any longer what point is being argued here. I tend to agree with both sides.

This is just our bi-weekly political knife fight. :)
he Jets are gonna
have their day
Tonight
The Jets are gonna
have their way
Tonight
The Puerto Ricans grumble
'Fair fight'
But if they start a rumble
We'll rumble'em right

[bradclark1]

Speaking of Mr. Hsu (gezundheit!), have you read about his little house on the prairy (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118826947048110677.html?mod=special_page_campaig n2008_topbox)? :hmm:
Campaign reform is one thing I seriously supported McCain on put politicians protect their bribe's err, contributions. A lot of them mumbled support but didn't back it when it came to the vote.

[The Avon Lady]

And another got away (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/a-paki-hillary-fundraiser-disappeared-last-march)!

UPDATE: Some interesting numbers (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/wanted-major-hillary-campaign.html).

UPDATE: Back in 2004, Edwards had similar contributors (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/UPDATE/708280415).

[bradclark1]

UPDATE: Back in 2004, Edwards had similar contributors (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/UPDATE/708280415).
Didn't see anything on Edwards unless I missed it but found this
Tom Noe, a Republican fundraiser convicted on similar federal charges

Found this on him:
is an Ohio Republican party fundraiser and activist, guilty of money laundering for the 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign and of theft and corruption in the "Coingate" scandal.
Thomas Noe is a Bush Pioneer fundraiser and has been involved in or connected to many different political scandals, involving a wide range of scandals including elections, fundraising, government investment, and conflicts of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Noe

Tom Noe, convicted last week on 29 charges for stealing from Ohio’s $50 million rare-coin fund, was sentenced to 18 years.......
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061120/BREAKINGNEWS/61120015

Then there's Jack Abramoff. Everyone remembers him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Abramoff

Just for fun:
The Chinese Spy Who Loved the GOP Too Much
http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/03/05/19_spy.html

[Sea Demon]

You got it wrong again brad. I understand your need to schill for these people. But I find it quite sad all the same. I used your own perverted logic back at you. And past statements from other threads regarding Abu Ghraib. And you couldn't take it. And now you seem a little touchy. :) No, The Chinese received much more than simple satellite technology from Clinton's Commerce department. They got whole guidance systems that can be used in ICBM applications. You know, the ones that can come crashing down on your grandkids. These weren't solely from the actions of these companies. Like I said, it was the Clinton Commerce department in conjunction with those at the top of those organizations despite tons of protests from many in these organizations and Pentagon staffers as well. And the donations went directly into DNC coffers. I'm amazed by your ability to put the Democrat party ahead of your own family here. Clinton truly is a "cult of personality" for you. Can you say "Zeig Heil!". And also, The Saudi government is rotten, but like it or not, we need them for our military operations. I understand you can't see this. One dimensional thinking usually doesn't allow people to truly understand how the game of geopolitics is played.

And no, it is you who support those who get Americans killed. But you are a part of those that ignore and sweep under the rug real terrorist attacks. There were a number of terrorist attacks over the years, and we got no action from any Democrats. And now when we are actually confronting them, you guys actually side with the terrorists against our troops. The leader of this current failed Senate (Reid) actually has been sgoing around saying that the war is "lost". While we still have people on the ground. This is demoralizing to our troops and emboldens the enemy. And it directly gives aid and comfort to our enemy. But your political party figures are much more important to you than America I guess. While we support those who fight it, you support those who demoralize the effort. And indirectly, you support those who plant IED's on roadsides to attack our people in uniform. They also know that if we lose the will, we'll leave and lose the whole war. You and the Democrat party are basically helping the enemy here. And yes, I'm afraid of the Taiwan situation. Before Clinton came to power, the PLA was a joke. The PLA, thanks to Clinton, are now a force to be reckoned with. The Democrats also weakened the position of a free, and self-determined people on Taiwan. And our commitments to support Taiwan, will unfortunately result in more dead U.S. sailors if the time comes. But I guess the West Pacific is far from you. Unfortunately, your neighborhood is a short distance for DF-31A's. This is truly evil, especially since it was all built on DNC campaign donations.

[bradclark1]

I have to leave for awhile but think about this. How come you can't answer any of my statements? You always skirt answering. Reason; You can't because it incriminates you and those you support.
I'll settle for one answer. Tell me why the President of the United States supports a country that supplies arms and money to Sunni insugents and Al Qaeda or prove that information wrong.
When I come back I'll answer your comments.

[Sea Demon]

I have to leave for awhile but think about this. How come you can't answer any of my statements? You always skirt answering. Reason; You can't because it incriminates you and those you support.
I'll settle for one answer. Tell me why the President of the United States supports a country that supplies arms and money to Sunni insugents and Al Qaeda or prove that information wrong.
When I come back I'll answer your comments.

I've answered all of your nonsense. But you can't handle the answers. Why can't you handle answering for your own support for a party that has given sensitive technologies away for campaign donations and stays in the White House, and for a party that has repeatedly given aid and comfort to Islamic terrorists? Your suppositions in your last statement repeat your single dimensional thinking process. There is no proof that the Saudi government is giving money and arms to Al Qaeda at all. Prove it otherwise. The onus is on you. And sorry, proof will not be an article from salon.com, MichaelMoore.com, or the Nation.

Some of the Arab nations in the gulf are being cooperative in our efforts. Definitely much more so than the American Democrat party is. You can keep quibbling all you want. But it will not change your circumstances. The Democrat party is reknowned for their lack of national security priorities. You can twist, turn, and make your feeble efforts to turn it the other way all you want. But most of the country disagrees with you. Even your allies, the anti-war liberal activists will sometimes be honest and let us know just how they feel about America. And I understand why you're so concerned. This failed Congress is the lowest rated Congress in memory. We were better off before they took control of it. They are a complete and utter failure. They typify the term "do-nothing Congress". And you're desperate. You know the country is looking for a change, so you've got to make a bunch of weird assertions. You've got to try to rewrite history. And you've basically got to tell everyone that the Sun revolves around the Earth and the Democrats do indeed support the military and country. And most people ain't buying it. You're also sad because the surge in Iraq is working, and you're about looking like a bunch of fools. But go ahead and continue, I'm intrigued how you totally skirt the issues of Democrat treachery, Liberal defeatism, Democrat Anti-Americanism, and Democrat technology giveaway scandals. One thing I can tell you, Hillary gets elected, I'll bet the tech transfers to China start right back up. I'm sure the Commerce department again starts reclassifying technology all over again for cash. You're kind of sick brad. These people you support will ensure your kids and grandkids are targeted by nuclear ballistic and cruise missiles. And these same Democrats will also ensure Islamic terrorists are swept under the rug again. You have an uphill battle to make people see that differently. All the twisting in this thread won't help you. ;)

[fatty]

I have to leave for awhile but think about this. How come you can't answer any of my statements? You always skirt answering. Reason; You can't because it incriminates you and those you support.
I'll settle for one answer. Tell me why the President of the United States supports a country that supplies arms and money to Sunni insugents and Al Qaeda or prove that information wrong.
When I come back I'll answer your comments.

I've answered all of your nonsense. But you can't handle the answers. Why can't you handle answering for your own support for a party that has given sensitive technologies away for campaign donations and stays in the White House, and for a party that has repeatedly given aid and comfort to Islamic terrorists? Your suppositions in your last statement repeat your single dimensional thinking process. There is no proof that the Saudi government is giving money and arms to Al Qaeda at all. Prove it otherwise. The onus is on you. And sorry, proof will not be an article from salon.com, MichaelMoore.com, or the Nation.

Some of the Arab nations in the gulf are being cooperative in our efforts. Definitely much more so than the American Democrat party is. You can keep quibbling all you want. But it will not change your circumstances. The Democrat party is reknowned for their lack of national security priorities. You can twist, turn, and make your feeble efforts to turn it the other way all you want. But most of the country disagrees with you. Even your allies, the anti-war liberal activists will sometimes be honest and let us know just how they feel about America. And I understand why you're so concerned. This failed Congress is the lowest rated Congress in memory. We were better off before they took control of it. They are a complete and utter failure. They typify the term "do-nothing Congress". And you're desperate. You know the country is looking for a change, so you've got to make a bunch of weird assertions. You've got to try to rewrite history. And you've basically got to tell everyone that the Sun revolves around the Earth and the Democrats do indeed support the military and country. And most people ain't buying it. You're also sad because the surge in Iraq is working, and you're about looking like a bunch of fools. But go ahead and continue, I'm intrigued how you totally skirt the issues of Democrat treachery, Liberal defeatism, Democrat Anti-Americanism, and Democrat technology giveaway scandals. One thing I can tell you, Hillary gets elected, I'll bet the tech transfers to China start right back up. I'm sure the Commerce department again starts reclassifying technology all over again for cash. You're kind of sick brad. These people you support will ensure your kids and grandkids are targeted by nuclear ballistic and cruise missiles. And these same Democrats will also ensure Islamic terrorists are swept under the rug again. You have an uphill battle to make people see that differently. All the twisting in this thread won't help you. ;)

You could just type "I hate Democrats" and save us all some time and patience.

[Lafferty]

Yeah that would work wonders.

[Sea Demon]

You could just type "I hate Democrats" and save us all some time and patience.

That would be a total mischaracterization.

[Tchocky]

Every post starts out fairly reasonable, then this bit comes in

what you can't sem to see about your party*/your blind loyalty/mine is bigger than yours

uuurghhghg

* = be it dems/Gop/Bambi

[Tchocky]

The leader of this current failed Senate (Reid) actually has been sgoing around saying that the war is "lost". While we still have people on the ground. This is demoralizing to our troops and emboldens the enemy. And it directly gives aid and comfort to our enemy. But your political party figures are much more important to you than America I guess. While we support those who fight it, you support those who demoralize the effort. And indirectly, you support those who plant IED's on roadsides to attack our people in uniform. They also know that if we lose the will, we'll leave and lose the whole war. You and the Democrat party are basically helping the enemy here. This line of argument really doesn't make sense. It's extrapolation beyond common sense, and stinks to high heaven. The old "I'm more patriotic than you, so I'm right" argument.
What if he believes that then war is lost? Doesn't his elected position demand that he speaks his mind? If you disagree with him, fair enough, but the McCarthyist line isn't clearing the water.

You are helping the enemy, why don't you just go out to iraq and kill some of our troops, since you so clearly want to......bleh ugh and argh

[bradclark1]

As a Lockheed contractor, I met people who worked at Loral that could tell you some of the dangerous stuff Clinton and his commerce department gave to the hostile Chinese government. And the guidance technology is being applied directly into China's DF-31 program.
Show me anything that says that. The only things I can find is that China got the technology during Clinton's administration. The only transfer of missile technology I have found are through Hughes, Lockheed, and Boeing which was all illegal and they were found guilty. The only thing found is satellite technology.
Found this too. Notice the dates, notice the president:
US Approves Waivers for Satellite Exports to China -- 11 Sep 1992 -- State Department fact sheet on the waiver of legislative restrictions for six satellite project exports to China.
US Lifts Missile Sanctions on China USIA -- 26 Mar 1992 -- The Bush administration has lifted sanctions imposed on China because of transactions made by two Chinese companies involving missile technology covered by the Missile Technology Control Regime due to Chinese Foreign Minister Qian Qichen's formal letter confirming China's commitment to abide by MTCR guidelines and parameters.
Missile Technology Control Regime
http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/mtcr/news/index.html

About Lockheed, I was a contractor on a commercial space interest here in America. Not on any project that dealt with China. And yes, I would agree, Lockheed, Hughes, etc. did us no favors here. I myself never accused those unfortunate and sometimes unwilling people from being used as a vehicle of treason of the Clinton and Democrat machine.
Those links I showed proved your company, Hughes plus Boeing illegally sold missile technology to China.
What treason did Clinton and the Democrat machine perform in that act. You have the gall to say "I would agree, Lockheed, Hughes, etc. did us no favors here" No favors? I'm flat out calling it treasonous. There is no favor to it. I prove my facts. I don't babble.
Bush isn't supporting Al Qaeda, the Taliban, or the hostile/terrorists within Israel.
Where did you get Taliban from? In Iraq, most of the insurgent violence directed at the American military has come from Sunni forces, and not from Shiites.
Saudi royals still funding Al-Qaeda
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/001296.php
Saudis reportedly funding Iraqi Sunni insurgents
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-12-08-saudis-sunnis_x.htm
Saudi Citizens Funding Iraq Insurgents
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/08/world/main2240138.shtml
Report: Iraqi Officials Track Financing for Sunni Insurgents to Saudi Citizens
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235407,00.html

Brad, you have no idea what you're talking about. My company was used as a personal tool to get campaign donations for the corrupt Democrat party during the 90's by giving away things the Pentagon deemed for military purposes.
Are you blind? Do you read the links I supply? You are showing yourself to be foolish. Read the information I go out of my way to supply you. Get over your Demo-phobia and inform yourself.
You got it wrong again brad. I understand your need to schill for these people. But I find it quite sad all the same. I used your own perverted logic back at you. And past statements from other threads regarding Abu Ghraib. And you couldn't take it. And now you seem a little touchy.
What are you babbling about? Schill for whom? You haven't shown any logic at all. You haven't supplied any statements I've made about anything and what is your fixation about Abu Ghraib? In fact what is it you think I said about Abu Ghraib? I'm sure everyone reading this thread would be interested in it considering you keep bringing it up.
What couldn't I handle? What am I touchy about?
No, The Chinese received much more than simple satellite technology from Clinton's Commerce department. They got whole guidance systems that can be used in ICBM applications.
Read the links instead of looking ignorant.
The bottom part of your statement is mindless babbling and isn't worthy of a reply.
On to your next block;
I've answered all of your nonsense. But you can't handle the answers.
Show me the information you supplied.
I'm intrigued how you totally skirt the issues
Show me what I've skirted.
You're kind of sick brad.
Well, that comment shows you've come out the loser.

So lets see. I've proved my facts through 12 links of information.
Sea Demon has supplied 0 links to anything. All you have done is babble.

Unless you show links to hard information for your accusations I'm not going to respond any further so you can go into Demo-phobia full blown if you want. In fact I'll be surprised if anyone answers to your babble at all.

[Sea Demon]

Since you are simply unable to do your own homework:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/bcchinagate.shtml

Super computers sold to be used in nuclear weapons research
http://www.softwar.net/atomic2.html

FOIA Encryption equipment for China
http://www.softwar.net/barth95.html

In late February, 1996, the Chinese Warlords were finally able to buy their way into the White House when Wang Jun entered for a coffee with President Clinton. Wang would donate $690,000 to the Democratic National Committee in a quiet effort to reward those who have helped China.
http://www.softwar.net/arrow.html

Good reading here also:
http://www.softwar.net/398cv716.html

And there's a plethora around the net, if you're willing to open your eyes. The stuff here though is the most visible. I also suggest you read Bill Gertz's book "The China Threat". He has many pages of FOIA docs in that book which are pretty damning to the Clinton Administration. Also the book "Betrayal: How the Clinton Administration Undermined American Security " is informative. It also draws analysis through FOIA docs as well.

And this stuff goes beyond just mere satellite exports. The people I used to know from Loral on one project told me of some of the missile guidance stuff given wholesale. There is simply no links. Take it or leave it. I know what I know. According to these colleagues of mine, Clinton gave away the store. And was willing to drop the whole bag, until the investigations belatedly began. And it was a sigh of relief when it ended. It's true these organizations sold the technology, but the Clinton administration changed the classifications of sensitive technologies to make it happen. And got money for it. Should Clinton have been put in jail? And one question. Do you think we should bomb Saudi Arabia? What do you think the Democrat party would say if we went on a bombing campaign in Saudi Arabia. More "blood for oil" accusations maybe? And if Saudi Arabia is OK, then what's wrong with Iran? I think all the bad apples will be dealt with in time. We got to go for the rotten ones first.

Bottom line, you still cannot prove that the Democrats are anything but dangerous, negligent, and weak to our national security. When Carter was president, he was weak with the Soviets, gave away the Panama Canal, and stopped vital military R & D programs. Clinton, the other recent Democrat President gave China huge access to technologies they shouldn't have had access to. And while Democrats are wothless as a Congress now, they weaken us in a war against Islamic radicals, provide aid and comfort through defeatism and warped propaganda, and demoralize our troops through irresponsible statements. And you make excuses. What Clinton did was dangerous. And Democrat constituents that do not hold their own accountable are putting us all in danger. I'm amazed that you can defend Clinton for his treasonous actions. In fact, I'm surprised anyone in their right mind can support the Democrats for all the treacherous things they do. And I'm concerned that another Democrat in the White House means more of the same. Honestly, you are not changing any minds here.

[Sea Demon]

Oh yeah. And can you tell me what top secret documents Sandy Berger stuffed into his pants from the National Archives? That action speaks volumes. ;)

[bradclark1]

Since you are simply unable to do your own homework:
Wasn't my homework to do. It was yours. It's nice to see that you are actually capable of finding links to back your rhetoric isn't it? Not too hard at all was it? Try and do that from now on and it saves a lot of hassle.

Super computers sold to be used in nuclear weapons research
See next block below.

damning to the Clinton Administration
You are right. That information is damning. Now I'll ask you this, is this technology transfer any different from this: (Besides Clinton getting bought)
1992: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE7DF1F3BF931A15751C0A9649582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print
or this?
2002: http://www.newswithviews.com/Briley/Patrick1.htm

FOIA Encryption equipment for China
http://www.softwar.net/barth95.html
Read the whole thing. Third or fourth paragraph from the bottom. They were after a level playing field.
Erisson, Siemens, Alcatel, etc., are able to sell two way radios, cellular and PCS systems
to China and we are denied that ability by current US policy.

It's true these organizations sold the technology, but the Clinton administration changed the classifications of sensitive technologies to make it happen. And got money for it.
You are wrong. If Clinton had changed the classifications their actions wouldn't have been found illegal.
But do you know what pisses me off? Take Lockheed for example, charged 53 million for the technology and got fined a lousy 13 million and no executive was touched.

Should Clinton have been put in jail?
Yes. In fact if I remember correctly I've told you two or three times in past threads that Clinton should have gone to jail.

Do you think we should bomb Saudi Arabia? What do you think the Democrat party would say if we went on a bombing campaign in Saudi Arabia. More "blood for oil" accusations maybe? And if Saudi Arabia is OK, then what's wrong with Iran? I think all the bad apples will be dealt with in time. We got to go for the rotten ones first.
I'm sorry. There is no reason, no excuse on earth to me to support a country and be close friends with the rulers that finances killing our men and women. No reason whatsoever. I'd rather bomb them back into the stone age. We don't need their oil. Open up Alaska until a replacement technology is developed.

gave away the Panama Canal
We never owned it. The Panama Canal wasn't ours to give away. It's never been part of the U.S..

When Carter was president,........
It's a fact that Democrats don't have the military way up on it's list of priorities. Thats a good thing about a multiparty system. One counters the other and we vote for what we get.

And while Democrats are wothless as a Congress now,
Yes, we swapped one worthless congress for another worthless congress. What's your fix?

I'm amazed that you can defend Clinton for his treasonous actions.
Sorry. Show me one sentence where I have defended Clinton? I asked you to prove your comments and not just spout Demo-phobia rhetoric.

In fact, I'm surprised anyone in their right mind can support the Democrats for all the treacherous things they do. And I'm concerned that another Democrat in the White House means more of the same. Honestly, you are not changing any minds here.
Not everyone is a party drone. That's why the Republicans lost the last vote. When the people realize the goverment is dysfunctional and full of s#!t they vote to change it. It's up to the loser's to get a clue. It's called democracy.
I think both parties are as worthless as spit but I take the best I can find from all parties, vote and hope for the best. Maybe you should try it.

[bradclark1]

Oh yeah. And can you tell me what top secret documents Sandy Berger stuffed into his pants from the National Archives? That action speaks volumes. ;)


Someone trying to cover his butt by making documents disappear. Not that Bush, Cheney and Rove have any experience in that do they?;)

[The Avon Lady]

Heheh!

Runaround Hsu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m24dABZjBnY). :p

[Sea Demon]

Heheh!

Runaround Hsu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m24dABZjBnY). :p

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/09/20/politics/p103004D44.DTL&type=politics

The more we know, the uglier it gets. I wonder how much dirty money fills Mrs. Clinton's coffers.

[Enigma]

Yeah. donations from major corporations who screw the average American, polluters, and big business, those are the respectable campaign donators....

[Sea Demon]

Yeah. donations from major corporations who screw the average American, polluters, and big business, those are the respectable campaign donators....

Oh yeah, Democrats don't take any money from people like that.....get real. :shifty: No corporate dollars for any Democrat, huh???

[Sea Demon]

And there's more to come.... Now we have a donor to Hillary who's on trial for fraud related to the "oil for food" program. Nice.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3105288