We attack Nato on tuesday with our new subs

[Von Tonner]

This should be interesting.

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/article.aspx?pDesc=46651,1,22

[Dan D]

Good luck and good hunting!



A single German newspaper source claims that during a manoeuvre the U 24 passed the anti-submarine escorts of the USS Enterprise undetected, fired a simulated torpedo salvo, took a periscope foto (below) and then popped up near the carrier which made the US Admiral very angry. Arrh.

Can anyone confirm this story?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7613/zielfotou24enterprisehe6.jpg
http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2007/08/08/779801.html

Another incident: U 18 periscope shot of a carrier; video claims that it costed an US Vice Admiral his job and that picture was kept secret for 10 years (1:50 min, G)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92FlZp6K-KU


Please post some pics.

[Packerton]

WTF war? this is a joke right?

[Safe-Keeper]

Despite the best efforts of the carrier battle groups, it occasionally happens that submarines reach the 'enemy' carrier in exercises, as far as I know. Must be really fun for the sub crew, less so for the escorts.

[Jimbuna]

The Australian Collins Class was reported to have made it through to a CVN a year or so ago in a similar exercise IIRC :hmm:

[bookworm_020]

The Australian Collins Class was reported to have made it through to a CVN a year or so ago in a similar exercise IIRC :hmm:

I think the USN is still yet to forgive the RAN for that one!:arrgh!: It was a reason they leased the swedish sub for a couple of years so they could get some practice tracking conventional subs.

[Lafferty]

I think i remember that one.

[bookworm_020]

The sub was HMAS Waller, the carrier was USS Abraham Lincon. It happened during RIMPAC 2000. It also 'Sank' two Los Angles class subs as well!:rock:

In 2001 during Exercise Tandem Thrust she sank two USN amphibious assault ships in water that had a depth of between 75 and 100 meters!:huh:

[Jimbuna]

The sub was HMAS Waller, the carrier was USS Abraham Lincon. It happened during RIMPAC 2000. It also 'Sank' two Los Angles class subs as well!:rock:

In 2001 during Exercise Tandem Thrust she sank two USN amphibious assault ships in water that had a depth of between 75 and 100 meters!:huh:

Yep, great stuff :up: ....but quite sad when you come to think of the present crew number problems the RAN are having in keeping them at sea :nope:

[AntEater]

The US Navy always seems to have had a problem with any non soviet diesel build after WW2.
"Carrier sinking" stories are known from Germany (U-24), the Netherlands (Dolfijn, I think) and Norway (HNMS Ula), at least.
Apparently U-24 also "sank" a 688 during the carribean cruise in 1998.
On a german navy forum (you've got to be ex navy to post there) some sonar operator told how he tracked the 688 while a US navy officer beside him "started to sweat" as they got a firing solution on the 688 without being noticed.

[Oberon]

Didn't a US sub manage to fire a flare onto the flight deck of a carrier once in one of these ASW exercises?

[Tchocky]

Didn't a US sub manage to fire a flare onto the flight deck of a carrier once in one of these ASW exercises? That would be a great one-way radio exchange :)

USS Lincoln - Alright, Asheville, we give up. Where are you

*Flare*

[TLAM Strike]

Didn't a US sub manage to fire a flare onto the flight deck of a carrier once in one of these ASW exercises? That would be a great one-way radio exchange :)

USS Lincoln - Alright, Asheville, we give up. Where are you

*Flare*

Kinda like what the USS Nautlus did once, put four exersize fish in to four ships about 15 mins before the end of the exersize (the last one under the flag ship) then surfaced 500 yards abeam and signaled "How you like them apples charlie?" :rock:

I wonder if our Master of Defense Bill was aboard her for that one? :hmm:

[Chock]

This sort of thing has been happening since before WW1:

In 1904, an A Class submarine commanded by Reginald Bacon did exactly this. Umpires of a naval exercise that year determined that Bacon's 1st Flotilla had sunk two battleships (they claimed they had sunk more). CIC of the Home Fleet, Sir Arthur Kynvet Wilson (who had been a real enemy of submarine development) was naturally infuriated by this.

When, during the exercise, a submarine signalled his ship with 'Respectfully submit have torpedoed you. Respectfully submit you are sunk. Respectfully submit you are out of the exercise.' apparently Kynvet Wilson grabbed the semaphore flags from his signaller and sent 'You be damned' with them personally.

:D Chock

[Lafferty]

lol that funny.

[bookworm_020]

This sort of thing has been happening since before WW1:

In 1904, an A Class submarine commanded by Reginald Bacon did exactly this. Umpires of a naval exercise that year determined that Bacon's 1st Flotilla had sunk two battleships (they claimed they had sunk more). CIC of the Home Fleet, Sir Arthur Kynvet Wilson (who had been a real enemy of submarine development) was naturally infuriated by this.

When, during the exercise, a submarine signalled his ship with 'Respectfully submit have torpedoed you. Respectfully submit you are sunk. Respectfully submit you are out of the exercise.' apparently Kynvet Wilson grabbed the semaphore flags from his signaller and sent 'You be damned' with them personally.

:D Chock

Not a bad effot considering the crews had very little experience with the craft at this point in time, almost no training in how to do a setup of torpedo angles and attack methods! For a couple of sub commanders it was their first time out!:huh:

[Von Tonner]

Can you believe it?!!! One sub sank the entire force - truly a remarkable achievement. :up:

"A lone South African submarine left some Nato commanders with red faces on Tuesday as it "sank" all the ships of the Nato Maritime Group engaged in exercises with the South African Navy off the Cape coast.":oops:



Read all about it here.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/&articleid=318355&referrer=RSS

[Skybird]

Congrats, though I am not surprised. I think since long that the future of real maritime warfare (not just ELINT, special ops, strategic-political intimidation etc.) is not mighty carriers groups and ships and ASW units, but submarines. If you can't neutralize the enemy sub threat, you already have lost the naval war. Lesson valid since WWII.

[Von Tonner]

After this performance by our sub I would totally agree with you Skybird. Previously when our Navy wanted the money to buy these new subs I was vocally opposed, thinking the money would be better spent on surface vessels to patrol our vast coast line and in so doing protect our marine resources.

But these subs have proved effective there as well, having chased down a trawler heading back East loaded with poached Abalone.

[Jimbuna]

Can you believe it?!!! One sub sank the entire force - truly a remarkable achievement. :up:

"A lone South African submarine left some Nato commanders with red faces on Tuesday as it "sank" all the ships of the Nato Maritime Group engaged in exercises with the South African Navy off the Cape coast.":oops:



Read all about it here.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/&articleid=318355&referrer=RSS

Very interesting. Exactly what surface ships were there ? :hmm:

[Skybird]

http://www.abendblatt.de/daten/2007/08/08/779801.html


That article says the 212A is "fully combat-operational" at depths of only 20 m, even 14 m - and manouvering with full speed.

At the tower, these boats are 11.5 meters high. Gives you 3.5 meters margin. Max speed when submerged is (officially) 20 kn.

the article reminds of the Argentinian "San Lousis", a german type 209, which fired a volley of eight torpedoes at HMS Invincible and escorts during the Falkland war. Not one torpedoe hit - it illustrates that if crew training is poor, technology not always compensates for that: the technicians had linked the wires for torpeoe control in a wrong way, thus after being shot the eels could not be controlled anymore. Luck for the British - the sinking of the Invincible would have meant (according to the British admiral, Sandy Woodward) the defeat of the British and their immediate retreat.

What alarms me is that the article finally say that Pakistan wants to get those 212s. Didn't knew that. I hope nobody in Berlin acts foolishly. You don't sell your primary weapons to your most serious enemies.

[Von Tonner]

Here is a nice pic of the group with Table Mountain as a backdrop
(http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/photos/avcom/misc/nato_group.jpg)
http://www.flightzone.co.za/media/photos/avcom/misc/nato_group.jpg






http://navy.org.za/articles/2007/09/03/nato-sa-in-naval-warfare-exercise



From the article:

"Another sign of the increasing importance of a security operation in African waters comes from the US Navy, which plans from 2008 to have a "big-deck" presence in the Gulf of Guinea.
"My aspiration is to have a ship there 365 days a year," said Admiral Harry Ulrich, commander of US Naval Forces Europe and Africa.
The South African Navy has long held the position that its new fleet would be used for anti-piracy and anti-poaching operations.
The training with Nato is its first big joint operation to discover how this might be carried out."

Extract from above article which goes some way in explaining the interest of Nato and in particlular the USA interest. By "big-deck" I am presuming US Admiral Ulrich is alluding to a carrier. Would love to see these little subs go up against one of those. Even if they got through the defense I doubt they have the fire-power to take one out though.

[Von Tonner]

http://navy.org.za/articles/2007/09/05/sa-submarine-achieves-world-first

Hell, we obviously think they are so good we are insuring them. The first subs ever to be insured.:rock:

[Von Tonner]

Can you believe it?!!! One sub sank the entire force - truly a remarkable achievement. :up:

"A lone South African submarine left some Nato commanders with red faces on Tuesday as it "sank" all the ships of the Nato Maritime Group engaged in exercises with the South African Navy off the Cape coast.":oops:



Read all about it here.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__national/&articleid=318355&referrer=RSS
Very interesting. Exactly what surface ships were there ? :hmm:


Visit this site. It gives the ships but what will knock your socks off are the stunning action pics that were taken. Makes you wish that you were there. Truly amazing pictorial coverage. Love the one pic where all ships are under way in formation trying to protect the main asset - but to no avail.

http://www.navy.mil.za/

[Jimbuna]

Your right....the photos are great :rock: But hey!!....where were the professionals (Royal Navy) ? :lol:

[AntEater]

:ping::hmm::rotfl::huh::roll:
SAN Maritime patrol aircraft...
http://www.navy.mil.za/equipment/images/vessels/douglas_jet_prop_dc-3.jpg

[TLAM Strike]

:ping::hmm::rotfl::huh::roll:
SAN Maritime patrol aircraft...
http://www.navy.mil.za/equipment/images/vessels/douglas_jet_prop_dc-3.jpg

Is that an old DC-3? How dare they! An MPA built out of the airframe of a passanger aircraft will never work!! Oh wait... :lol:

[Chock]

That's the considerably more capable, updated 'turboprop' conversion of the venerable old DC-3, the original radial engines having been replaced and the airframe upgraded. a good aircraft and like the original, tough as old boots.

:D Chock

[bookworm_020]

That's the considerably more capable, updated 'turboprop' conversion of the venerable old DC-3, the original radial engines having been replaced and the airframe upgraded. a good aircraft and like the original, tough as old boots.

:D Chock

The Gooney Bird will still be flying long after I'm dead! It flies and flies, and never dies!

[JALU3]

That's the considerably more capable, updated 'turboprop' conversion of the venerable old DC-3, the original radial engines having been replaced and the airframe upgraded. a good aircraft and like the original, tough as old boots.

:D Chock

The Gooney Bird will still be flying long after I'm dead! It flies and flies, and never dies!

As they say . . . if it aint broke . . .

Well as I have written before, if anyone has seen the ASW school here in San Diego on Harbor Blvd, there is not as much activity there as there was in the past. Since the end of the Cold War we have let our capabilities languish . . . look at what happend to the S-3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-3_Viking). If anything a SV-22 should be developed, or some other aircraft to supplement where the MMA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-8_Poseidon) cannot travel

[NefariousKoel]

I recall a Chilean sub scoring a kill on a US carrier during a Pacific exercise years ago also. I believe it was a Type 209 too.

[Camaero]

That's the considerably more capable, updated 'turboprop' conversion of the venerable old DC-3, the original radial engines having been replaced and the airframe upgraded. a good aircraft and like the original, tough as old boots.

:D Chock


The DC-3... Now THAT is/was a plane! I love em.