SH4 any good yet? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 02:32 AM

switch.dota

08-28-07, 02:37 AM

1. Are the rescue missions still virtually impossible?
2. Did the patch really fix anything of merit to game playability?
3. Does the game still get stuck repeating the same mission over and over again?
4. Are you still engulfed in a furious storm of Pacific ocean-wide contact reports?

1. Patch 1.3.
2. Yes.
3. Trigger Maru 1.6 by Ducimus.
4. Trigger Maru 1.6 by Ducimus.

Than answer your question yet? :p

Overall I can say that with patch 1.3 and Trigger Maru mod, SH4 is actually quite a gaming exprience. It still has *some* bugs but it's very stable and extremely enjoyable right now.

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 02:37 AM

edit:

my biggest complaints were the special forces rafts and agent rafts would flip over:nope:

the downed airmen were too hard to find

the numerous crash bugs

the inability to interact with stations and crew on any effective level

the nagging of sounds that would repeat over and over and over and over again.

any of those issues been addressed?

also are there any decent mods? for example: i heard some talk of scrapping the pacific campaign, importing german u-boats and making an SH3-4 did that awesome idea go anywhere.

be patient with me... i dont mean to come across as "mean"... but you have to realize that the last time i came to the SH4 room we consumers were beta testing this game, and it really didnt have much to offer besides looks. ;)

Ducimus

08-28-07, 04:08 AM

>>my biggest complaints were the special forces rafts and agent rafts would flip over

Still happends on occason.

>>the downed airmen were too hard to find
Marked with red smoke now.

>>the numerous crash bugs
I havent had SH4 crash on me in quite awhile, and ive been modding it, as oppose to just using it. Acutally i take that back, SH4 crashed on me yesterday, when i tried to load a saved game at sea from TM 1.5 under TM 1.6. I knew it would crash (not in port), but i had to try anyway. :88)

>>the inability to interact with stations and crew on any effective level
You have all important functionality. The only thing you don't have is the "shoulder tap" type of interaction.

>>the nagging of sounds that would repeat over and over and over and over again.
Rudder... rudder?

That was ubisoft trying to recreate what im assuming is US Navy protocol. WHen an officer gives an order, the enlisted man repeats to order as sort of a confirmation. So if the OOD says, Rudder 10 degrees to port. The helmsman is supposed to repeat the order as he heard it. The problem with this in its curent implentation is twofold:

1.) they dont repeat the ENTIRE order, so all you get is "rudder.. rudder"
2.) soemtimes the helmsman has the same voice type as the OOD, which as you can imagine can be rather lame.

So to answer the question, yup, still there. Knowing what its supposed to be helps it not be so bothersome.

All said, try TM1.6 before unistalling SH4, you might be pleasantly surpised. The modpack represents a collective community effort and the games come a long ways. Id say at 6 months of age, SH4 is about where SH3 was at 1 year of age, maybe even a little farther along then that.

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 04:28 AM

good to hear, i think ill wait it out a little longer, i have already uninstalled SH4 ages ago.

i still feel like the modders in the subsim community have more talent in the grime under their fingernails than everyone at ubisoft combined.

:hmm: maybe its not fair to say that... perhaps its just that they were working with an unrealistic time table under a manager or group of managers that really didnt care at all about the product.

"Get it done and get it out of here so i can worry with something I like." said the SH4 project manager.

***AND NOW THE SAME POST AS ABOVE... ONLY IN STOCK SH4 SPEAK***

good to hear, hear, hear, hear i think ill wait it out a little longer, i have already uninstalled SH4 ages ages ages ago.

i still feel like the modders modders modders modders modders in the subsim community have more talent in the grime under their fingernails than everyone at ubisoft combined.

:huh: (eyes popping out) maybe its not fair to say that... perhaps its just that they were working with an unrealistic time table table table tablle under a manager or group of managers that really didnt care at all about the product.

"Get it done and get it out of here so i can worry with something I like." said the SH4 project manager.

CRASH TO DESKTOP

switch.dota

08-28-07, 04:30 AM

Rafts ... for one they don't bug you as contacts anymore. They still make stupid screeching sounds but that's about all they do. As for the airmen, patch 1.3 fixed that up REALLY nice. Most aviators pop red flares that are visible to you from 7-8km. The crew still is blind as a bat when it comes to spotting them but you can easily manuver the sub to the flare.

Crashes are a thing of the past. Most were fixed in either 1.3 or Jace11's tiny mod (which was included in countless other major mods).

The stations themselves aren't as interactive as in SH3. The radar and sonar stations are much more useful in 1.3 than they were in 1.0 however.

And the sound... what sound? :lol:

EDIT: Damn, Duci beat me to it. Fast skipper :lol:

Anyway... there's still a little naggin issue with crew's eyes and the bow planes but they're minor and usually go away on their own.

Seadogs

08-28-07, 05:27 AM

I say give it a shot with TM 1.6. I also shelved SH4 shortly after release but it's so much better now, alot of hard work from the folks around here has gone into it.

TDK1044

08-28-07, 08:54 AM

Patched to 1.3 (no DVD necessary to drive the game) and modded to taste, for me this means Trigger Maru and the brighter torpedo wakes mod, SH4 is very playable and enjoyable. Give it a try. :D

ReallyDedPoet

08-28-07, 08:59 AM

SH4 is a great sim and will only get better :yep:

RDP

Rockin Robbins

08-28-07, 09:23 AM

SH4 is now the greatest subsim ever encountered on planet Earth.

Other than that it sucks.:down: There is no head for crew or officers, Cookie can't bake me my victory cakes because there is no oven, I can't flood negative (always wanted to say "flood negative to the mark" and still can't do it), the sonar lacks attenuation filters and my radar screens are always getting scratched. The all-female crew I ordered is on back order and my cell phone doesn't work except on the bridge.

Ducimus, for Trigger Maru 2.0 can we get that all-female crew?

SteamWake

08-28-07, 09:29 AM

C DuDe

08-28-07, 10:14 AM

:yep:

Sailor Steve

08-28-07, 10:38 AM

i still feel like the modders in the subsim community have more talent in the grime under their fingernails than everyone at ubisoft combined.
If that were true, there would be no SH4, SH3 or SH2 to complain about. The developers are an immensely talented bunch. Think how 'good' GWX would be if Lehman had someone over him saying "It has to be out by May 2006. After that, maybe you can do one more fix, but it has to be out by August 2006. After that, you're done."

If you really wanted to know the current state of SH4, all you had to do was read the multiple threads talking about the great improvements as well as the problems people are still reporting.

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 11:49 AM

thanks for your replies gentlemen.

I like SH4, love its graphics, and really appreciate the concepts... but i thought it had too many unexcusable bugs to begin with and game play was ruined as a result. I WILL BE GIVING SH4 ANOTHER CHANCE. :D sounds like it has come a long way in a short time.

about the quality of every GWX version out there; and the business practices of Ubi...

Kpt. Lehmann IS the guy standing over eveyones shoulder that tells when it has to be released, the thing is... in his true leadership ability which is NOT numbers driven he leads his dev team to produce a highly reliable quality product and deliver it "when it's ready" NOT when we hit the big X on the calendar regardless of quality.

i know as a group of freeware modders, him and his dev team enjoy the luxury of not having to really work with a deadline, or worry about profit margin or "other titles" that require work too etc. UBI doesnt have that luxury, but i also think that Ubisoft and other game developers should be a bit more responsible regarding the quality of their releases.

for example, I just played Bioshock (PC). One of the most detail oriented first person shooters to date. Now... given that FPS games are probably easier to code than simulations (i dont know either way). there was not ONE game stopping bug in bioshock, not ONE sound glitch, not ONE single issue or crash to desktop in approximately 16 continuous hours of game play, saves, loads etc. its a brand new unpatched release, what gives? why isnt it constantly screwing up and crashing?

Microsoft Flight simulator X is another example, some folks complained about how it runs on their computers, but since i meet the recommended reuirments i had no issues with the sim. I dont believe i have ever had a single crash to desktop, i dont have any game stopping issues, and the game doesnt CTD every time i level off and try to hold altitude. the air traffic controller voice doesnt repeat over and over "You are cleared to land, land, land, land, land, land" It was a brand new title in a genre that had history... The Microsoft Flight simulator line of sims has been around for a similar length of time as the Silent service/ silent hunter series... why doesnt the initial unpatched version of FSX constantly crash and screw up? why doesnt it have issues that more or less stop or at least seriously affect game play?

my final question is simply this... what makes SH4... or any other SH series for that matter any different from FSX or Bioshock or Call of Duty or IL2?

and i dont want to hear about "lower fan base" or "FPS and Flight sims are more popular than sub sims."...

...those things are not the issue, my dad told me when i was very young that "anything worth doing is worth doing right... if you're sole job in life is only to build chain link fence posts, then by all means, build the strogest, straightest and most reliable fence posts you can." its the ethics of the gaming companies thats the issue with me.

again thanks for your replies, and thank you for renewing my interest in SH4... once i clear my desk of other projects i will give it another shot.

tomoose

08-28-07, 12:14 PM

You sound like my kinda guy. I didn't uninstall SHIV but it deliberately sat idle for a few months while I enjoyed SHIII (NYGM 2.0) via Wolves At War. I completely agree about your comments ref the inexcusable bugs/errors in such a graphically beautiful game (see my post about the rubber raft collision sound, eeuw, got the shivers just typing that, LOL). As you point out LOTS of games have been released with no or very minor bugs and are quickly patched. Why the SHIV debacle occured is a mystery although I suspect the almighty $ is involved in some way, LOL. Personally I do not blame the actual developers I blame the distributor..UBISOFT for being greedy SOBs and obviously rushing out this product.

Having said all that, Patch 1.3 and the impressive work of the modding community out there, for me, have resurrected this game. If an equivalent mod to NYGM is created for SHIV then I'm sure I'll be almost as happy as I am now with SHIII.

AVGWarhawk

08-28-07, 12:20 PM

I'm having a ball with the game. It is the only game I play. Enough said:D

Rockin Robbins

08-28-07, 03:58 PM

Lafferty

08-28-07, 05:00 PM

I have never had it crash on me since i've had it i guess i was lucky.

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 07:10 PM

Poor game companies have two mutually exclusive options. Play conservative and come out with a totally clean game, in which critics will say "Yada yada yada, just more of the same tired old game. Just goes to show you, never be in the same room with an improvement." Or they go for state of the art and get all kinds of complaints about CTD's, slow response times and bugs.

Software is like management. If a manager waits for all the information he's receiving to be complete and correct, his decision is useless because it's too late. If you wait for all the bugs to be out of state of the art software before you release it, it is no longer state of the art and you've most likely already been scooped. Better to fix a good product than not sell any perfect ones. This has happened in many games and in business software as well. Anyone remember Windows ME? It was lousy and you had to buy XP to fix it. I don't know about you but I'm happy with the result. Imperfect as the system is, it's the best we've got and it works quite well.

I'm happy with SH4. I was happy with patch 1.2 and have been loving it ever since. I'd call that a successful publication by any measure.

Since I was born, I haven't lived in a perfect world. When I was a child I ran through the "insist on fairness" thing and threw my share of trantrums. Guess what? Didn't help anything and it hurt me. Since it only hurts you, why inflict it on us? We don't expect perfection and we've decided to be happy with what we get. If we're NOT happy with it we'll get something else.

It's like picking a girl and expecting her to go along with it. If she doesn't, do you throw a tantrum? Maybe you do... I say you pick another one until it works. :arrgh!: You know what? Even then she won't be perfect, and neither are you. If you're smart, you'll decide to be happy anyway.:up:

Dude, no offense intended by this reply at all, but Silent Hunter 4 is NOT state of the art by any means... they slapped new textures and scenery and light details onto Silent hunter 3 and called it new. most of the features that could be considered "state of the art" have been around longer than the past 6 or 7 months i promise.

what a joke to call it state of the art.

im old enough to know life isnt fair for the love of pete... im not whining about SH4 by any means, how many times do i have to say that its a good game and i like it??? are people just not reading that when i type it? does it dissappear from the screen when i click the "post reply" button?

all i simply wanted to know was has it been improved by mods? because for starters i havnt played it since a few weeks after release... sorry, but i wasnt happy with it so i played something that made me happy... (sound familiar?)

Lets talk about state of the art for a minute.

I have played several "state of the art" games that introduced something new to the gaming industry... be it light bloom, or better physics, or whatever. 90% of the time they were stable from day one... maybe one or two crashes, but it wasnt like it crashed every time i pushed a game critical button, or completed a game critical action or task.

Im sorry but polishing silent hunter 3 and calling it silent hunter 4 and passing it off as state of the art is laughable at best. its not even a new game... we just added more ship models and effects and shifted things over to the other side of the SH3 world. period.

I know that Silent hunter 4 is not the same animal as it was just earlier this year, my entire reason for posting this was to see if the game had developed to a point where I would find it fun to play. I didnt come here to find out if the game had reached a point where Joe would find it fun to play... or if Bob would find it fun to play... all i wanted to know is if it was to a point where I would find it fun to play. no harm intended at all in the above posts, but its like you say anything negative about SH4 you might as well be calling their new born baby ugly or something. i dont get it.

it may sound selfish for me to ask if the game has reached a point I would enjoy it... but in the end, just like the rest of you Im the consumor... im the customer. nothing selfish about that at all.

If i purchased a pack of gum and the first few pieces tasted like rotten fish i would be an unhappy customer. even if it said "cinnamon flavor!" on the cover of the pack and it turned out to taste like orange... im still going to be an unhappy customer.

if i purchased a car, but every time i turned the wheel the engine quit, or every time i stepped on the brake the horn honked i would be unhappy with it. wouldnt you?

not that Silent Hunter 4 was that bad, it just didnt fit my taste... so despite the fact that i like the game i was initially dissapointed. now... i come back here in hopes of finding the game renewed and restored by the awesome talent of our great community to "catch up" on what SH4 has been through in previous months.

really... thanks for all the replies, you have all been helpful, i look forward to trying this game out with the latest patches and mods. :arrgh!:

chopped50ford

08-28-07, 07:23 PM

I yup im one of those guys who was bitterly dissapointed in the initial quality of SH4...
~GR

Well then with that as a starting point it is going to be very difficult to convince you otherwise.

It is still basically the same game with some improvements / corrections.

So yea its a good game.

agreed. If it wasnt for the work of the great modders we have here, maybe it would have stayed a "flop", but that's not the case.

The game has to be awesome to merit all the great work outside of UBI produced for this game.

If your not playing, your missing out.

John Channing

08-28-07, 07:35 PM

Nope.. and that you say that "its not even a new game... we just added more ship models and effects and shifted things over to the other side of the SH3 world" shows how little you know about Sh4.

A few things come to mind.

Better damage modeling

Better TDC

Better mission logic

Better campaign Logic

Better crew management

Better graphics

Better weapons modeling

Better enemy AI (more variety)

Better AI responses (1.3)

More variety of missions

I could go on, but you get the picture.

Not to be rude but by your own admission you haven't played SH4 enough, certainly in it's 1.03 state, to have an informed opinion ("because for starters i havnt played it since a few weeks after release") so you shouldn't be surprised that people get upset when you come in making statements like the above.

Try it out, preferably with TM 1.6, for at least a month or so and then see what you think. SH4 is very complex and takes a while to fully appreciate.

JCC

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 08:54 PM

shows how little you know about Sh4.
keep in mind i started this post to get better educated on SH4 :know:, so yeah... im working with about three weeks of knowlege on the subject of SH4

so you shouldn't be surprised that people get upset when you come in making statements like the above.
ok that i could see, but you must admit...

Better damage modeling - purely a matter of opinion to each individual player, frankly i HATE driving my sub around with big giant holes in it... it just looks like it should be a complete wreck. Even the slightest damage to the hull shows up as a big gaping wound. just seems out of place, thats all.

Better TDC - purely a matter of opinion to each individual player, besides the German TDC and the American TDC had their differences to begin with, i like them both. (has the stop watch feature been fixed to determine speed in the Sh4 TDC or are we still blindly guessing speed or having to calculate it out, just curious?)

Better mission logic - i can agree with this to an extent... there was nothing "wrong" with SH3's mission logic other than the fact that it was very basic... but i would rather have fully functional basic mission logic than buggy error prone better mission logic... of course i understand that from stock this has been greatly improved so its near pointless to discuss it.

Better campaign Logic - see above... sure there are more mission options like dropping off the upside down drowning agent, or photographing a harbor or picking up an armada of unseen floating aviators... neat additions which im sure are flawless now... but in the stock condition of the game im referring to - pointless ;)

Better crew management - 100% agreed there!

Better graphics - 100% agreed there too!

Better weapons modeling - i could agree with that

Better enemy AI (more variety)... more variety perhaps, better? :hmm: ill have to patch this thing and download some mods and get back with you on that one. I have had dozens of destroyers on DC runs on my sub suddenly go full reverse, without stopping until they were either A) out of sight, or B) hit something and killed themselves. thats a new strategy, hope that ones working out for the IJN :rotfl:

Better AI responses (1.3) - no comment, havnt used 1.3, but im really looking forward to it.

Monica Lewinsky

08-28-07, 09:06 PM

I purchased SH4 on release date, played it until the first patch came out, shelved it out of complete and utter disgust and went back to SH3... yup im one of those guys who was bitterly dissapointed in the initial quality of SH4... or should i say initial LACK of quality in Silent Hunter 4?

Playing with patch 1.3 and I love it with some minor mod modifactions.

No crashes, no lockups, no dumps to the desktop, and no problems.

Please reconsider joining us in SH4.

I wish you good luck in hunting in SH4 [and kisses, too ... wet ones that you wish sucked]. :D

A >LOT< of problems deal with how the person uses their PC outside of the scope of SH4. Most people that rag LOUDLY are doing a lot of things with their PC and FAIL to tell us of those "other" things that they do. It seems that the more pure or virgin your PC is.... no problems. My gaming PC until now is a 6 year old PC with 1 gig of ram and an AGP vdeo card with 512 ram video DDR2 ram. Was ok, loading saved games took 10-15 minutes to re-load and continue on the mission in SH4.

I now have on the bench, a NEW PC with 2 gig of RAM, Vista, and SH4 patched to 1.3.

Loading a SAVED career is around 2-3 minutes at worst. Game runs like a champ with NO PROBLEMS.

Conclusion:
Got a girly PC [one gig of ram, old PC, AGP graphics card, etc.], expect problems or long loading times and several other things being a problem is a norm. Go and get a MAN-ly PC ... no problems. On the Vista PC of mine with 2 gig of RAM, PCI Express video card from NVidia ... and SH4 ... is fricking awesome ... has been my useage for the graphics and response time of the game - no crashes EVER - and most important I am having FUN enjoying the game and it is FAST!

In other words, if you don't have a PC that is DOUBLE of the minimum requirements ..... be silent, and run DEEP and quit complaining about it!

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 09:17 PM

hahaha, ill be in the SH4 theater of operations soon, i dont know how soon, i have other things to finish up first regarding SH3. but after that im going to tackle this thing like a chubby, busty, short skirt wearing intern! :rock:

Seadogs

08-28-07, 09:18 PM

(has the stop watch feature been fixed to determine speed in the Sh4 TDC or are we still blindly guessing speed or having to calculate it out, just curious?)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118522 :up:

John Channing

08-28-07, 09:20 PM

GoldenRivet

08-28-07, 09:23 PM

awesome thanks guys

@ the busty intern...

Windows Vista Home edition
Intel Core 2 duo @ 2.4 ghz
Nvidia Radeon 8800 GTS
2 gigs Ram
dual monitor setup
and dolby 5.1 surround

PAW

08-28-07, 10:54 PM

Good posts, sounds like I should try and get it up and running again (especially with the mods)

Ducimus

08-29-07, 12:35 AM

All i can say is im never going back to SH3. :smug:

donut

08-29-07, 12:48 AM

:rotfl: All i can say is I'm never going back to SH3. :smug:
You got that right ! :rotfl: :rock: :up: 43 Yrs,since I have been to Sea this real,LBO's can't get me off the Bridge !:sunny: One ?,where is binocular view,"B" is now battle stations.

Takeda Shingen

08-29-07, 07:00 AM

One ?,where is binocular view,"B" is now battle stations.

I just roll up on the mouse wheel.

TDK1044

08-29-07, 08:30 AM

You can also hit the 'Tab' key. :D

SteamWake

08-29-07, 11:30 AM

Dude, no offense intended by this reply at all, but Silent Hunter 4 is NOT state of the art by any means...

I just couldent let this slip by...

Is there a better, more 'state of the art' sub sim available ? If so I want to get my hands on it.

GoldenRivet

08-29-07, 03:39 PM

i suppose that depends on one's definition of "better".

does better = pretty?

or does better = substance?

either way anyone goes, its a losing argument because in the end... its a matter of opinion, not fact.

Sure there are big rocks and tall grass on the sea floor of SHIV... wonderful, big holes in the side of the ship that vary not in size nor do they indicate the amount of damage done, neat!... but does that make SHIV a better more state of the art subsim than anything else?

the simple answer to such an argument is that there are as many play styles as there are players.

someone is always going to prefer the 2-D control room interface if SH2. Someone else is always going to prefer, the look and feel of SH3, and another player is going to have a preference for SH4.

Light bloom, lense flare, post process filtering... though pretty, and cool are hardly "state of the art", they have been around... and in the end they lend little to the overall quality of the "simulation".

just as an example: i dont stay sharp at my job every 6 months by climbing into a multi million dollar level D aircraft simulator because of how good the graphics on the displays are... i could give a darn what the outside image looks like... i get into the thing because it accurately represents and simulates the aircraft's performance and handling characteristics in a true to life form, and it does so with a high rate of reliability.

Just like players look for different qualities in their games or sims... i personally look for above all realism, historical accuracy, and representation of the real life machine, im just that kind of player.

even though silent hunter 4 offers the good looks that arcade gamers want, and offers the multiple difficulty that beginners want... it failed to produce the accuracy and reliability that a player like myself wants. Im sure its fine now... i cant say either way because i havnt tried the "new" SH4... but the INITIALLY RELEASED VERSION OF THE GAME was too buggy, too unreliable and didnt offer the same level of realism i have come to expect from various other simulations either outside of or within the confines of the submarine genre.

In short... we will simply have to agree to disagree here i guess.

My basic point is this: Just as you look for specific things in your sims and games, and just as you have your own personal standards which have developed what you come to expect from the products you buy... I have my own tastes and standards in the products i enjoy. thats all.

though silent hunter 4 did not intially meet my standards, it may do so now.

Sailor Steve

08-29-07, 04:18 PM

i suppose that depends on one's definition of "better".

does better = pretty?

or does better = substance?

either way anyone goes, its a losing argument because in the end... its a matter of opinion, not fact.
Your above arguments have nothing at all to do with your original question, which was whether the latest patch improved the game enough to make it enjoyable, or playable, by your standards. Plenty of people still have complaints of some form or another, but plenty more say that they are loving it as it is.

It sounds to me like you're searching for reasons to dislike it, convince yourself it's not worth it and that those who do like it are fooling themselves.

GoldenRivet

08-29-07, 04:27 PM

My original question was if the game had been improved by patches or mods.

my original question was answered, then i was viewed as being some sort of agressor because i didnt like the initial quality of SH4.

Sailor Steve... im not searching for reasons to dislike it at all... im simply saying that i disagree with steam wake's comment in which he argues that it is "state of the art" or "the best".

In return im simply saying that though it is good, i dont agree that it is state of the art by any means.

however these are both opinions so 1) it would be pointless to argue over it since we are both entitled to like and dislike what we wish, and 2) my whole argument has been that just because i didnt like the INITIAL release... doesnt mean i wont like what SH4 has become over time. no malice... no push to down the game... no upheaval of any kind intended. Its just my opinion that though SH4 is a good subsim... i dont agree with SteamWake that it is the best or that it is even state of the art.

...thats all.

Zero Niner

08-30-07, 02:12 AM

even though silent hunter 4 offers the good looks that arcade gamers want, and offers the multiple difficulty that beginners want... it failed to produce the accuracy and reliability that a player like myself wants. Im sure its fine now... i cant say either way because i havnt tried the "new" SH4... but the INITIALLY RELEASED VERSION OF THE GAME was too buggy, too unreliable and didnt offer the same level of realism i have come to expect from various other simulations either outside of or within the confines of the submarine genre.

I'm with GR on this. I bought the Collector's Edition on the day it was released, based on the subject matter (I had often wished for a Pacific subsim) and, more importantly, on the strengths of SH3.

I was disappointed (not a surprise here), and due to drive space issues I uninstalled it.

Continuing a thread GR made, I believe SH4 was not a brand new code, but was based on SH3.

If I am right, then I cannot understand how stock SH4, compared to stock SH3, appears to be more buggy. If SH4's code is based on SH3's then surely it would've had the stability of SH3 when it was first released? At least for me, I had no major issues with SH3 even before I added the patches and GWX. Why reinvent the wheel when you've already got something that works right?

This might appear trivial, but seeing something completely wrong and unhistorical - the Lancaster - made me wonder what else didn't they get right? I mean, this was like such a howler, how could the devs had done it, given that SH3 didn't have similarly jarring mistakes?

I'm not one for complete historical accuracy, so long as whatever content is being presented doesn't jar with what I know about WW2.

It just appears to me that SH4 was pushed out before it was truly ready.

I'm glad that we now have 1.03 patch, and mods made that helps solve most of these issues.

And since I like to think I know a thing or two about management, it is true that a manager cannot wait for all information to come in before a decision is made. But neither should one make a decision before all the critical information is known either. To do so would be equally foolish.

TDK1044

08-30-07, 07:21 AM

I think that we now have to accept the fact that companies like Ubisoft, and they certainly are not alone, are going to release their games knowing that significant additional patching is required.

I think their reasoning is that it's cheaper to budget for a small number of Devs to patch the game after release than it is to budget for for a full Dev team for a greater period of time on the production schedule.

Silent Hunter 4 had an 11 month production schedule. There is simply no way to release the game as it now is (patched to 1.3) in 11 months. This game required a minimum of 18 months in order for it to be released in a finished state ready for modding.

If we get a Silent Hunter 5, I guarantee you that all of the same issues will apply. To some, that means buying the game as soon as it is available and patching and modding as you go. To others it means waiting for six months before installing the game.

That is the reality of the modern video game industry, and shouting at the wind won't change a thing. If the number crunchers say that the metrics support this way of doing things, then that's how it's going to be.

I don't like it any more than you guys. I promise you that the Devs hate it too....their names are on these games.

Ducimus

08-30-07, 11:14 AM

Did people come here to troll and complain, or play the ****ing game? I find myself confused trying to figure out which it is.

DeepIron

08-30-07, 11:23 AM

Did people come here to troll and complain, or play the ****ing game?

Lol! Good point Ducimus!

Whatever SH4 WAS, it no longer IS.

There are so many excellent mods done by the community, and the core SH4 engine is moddable enough to provide an engaging user experience, that the potential for SH4 to surpass it's predessors in playability is staggering...

It's a question of whether you want to see the sub as half afloat or half submerged...

Cheers!

Von Manteuffel

08-30-07, 11:37 AM

Of course SH4 was based on SH3 - just have a glance at some of the basic file structures:

e.g. SIlent Hunter 4 Wolves of the Pacific\Data\Cfg contains crew-config files organised according to U-Boat type: II IX VII & XXI. In flotillas.cg, flotillas are based at Wilhelmshaven, Lorient etc.In fact, it would, I believe, be fair to say that SH4 is the ultimate SH3 supermod. The same is true with many such game "franchises." I've mentioned before that the much-vaunted Medieval 2 Total War was nothing more than a re-working of Rome Total War.

There's nothing wrong with devs doing this - why re-invent the wheel? But it is possible to either stretch the things written for one game too far in the follow-up, or to expect something which works in the first game to work in the follow-up with just a minor tweak to the code - and - because of the complexity of things and other interdependencies - it doesn't. Hence, you get bugs.

Personally I don't believe that the devs were given anywhere near enough time even to adapt SH3 to the Pacific theatre, let alone write a brand new game. Considering the bugs in the initial release, there certainly doesn't seem to have been a great deal of exhaustive and comprehensive testing.

But now, I believe, after patch 1.3 SH4 is where it should have been at release. It's a very good computer-game and the mods already available have made it even better.

ReallyDedPoet

08-30-07, 11:45 AM

But now, I believe, after patch 1.3 SH4 is where it should have been at release. It's a very good computer-game and the mods already available have made it even better.
It will\has eclipsed SH3, and will eventually do the same regarding it's supermods :yep:
That's what we want anyway right, for each release to take the game\series to the next level.

RDP