Aussie's fighting the drug war the right way!

[TwistedFemur]

Sorry if it's a repost



After being caught trying to smuggle drugs into Australia the Pong Su was sunk by two 2000-pound (900 kg) laser-guided bombs dropped from an RAAF F-111 aircraft. The deliberate destruction of the freighter was said to deliver a strong message to international drug smuggling rings that the Australian Federal Government would take all measures necessary to stop illegal drug importation.

Video here:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9ed_1187506461

[Happy Times]

Good show.:up:

[The Avon Lady]

This is an incident from 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pong_Su_incident). :roll:

[bigboywooly]

This is an incident from 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pong_Su_incident). :roll:

The sinking was 2006 :roll:
From your own link

[Jimbuna]

23 March 06....but what the hell!!...............poetic justice :lol:

[JALU3]

That gets me wondering, if this ever became a hot war, would the governments really pull all the stops . . . or would that be impossible?

[VonHammer]

That gets me wondering, if this ever became a hot war, would the governments really pull all the stops . . . or would that be impossible?

probaly impossible. although it would be nice. but then what would u do with all the addicts?

[Jimbuna]

Try to rehabilatate them for a start :hmm:

[RedMenace]

Want to know the best way to win the war on drugs? End it, that's how. Legalize and manage and issue out recreational drugs.

We spend 20 billion dollars a year in the US on the war on drugs, and you know what? It's useless. People who do recreational drugs are not criminals, sure, they're often stupid, but I don't see any effort to jail everyone who voted Republican.:shifty:

To keep a non-violent, crimeless pothead in jail costs $20,000 dollars a year. Somebody is arrested for posession of marijuana every 40 seconds in the US. Why keep these non-criminals in jail? Why even fine them?

And then, addicts are sent to jail for being addicts. Yeah, like THAT'S gonna cure them of heroin addiction, prison, of course.

Cannabis being illegal is the dumbest of all, though. Considering it is non-addictive and relatively safe for your body, its stupid to keep tobacco and alcohol legal, and send pot-smokers to jail. It's utterly retarded.

The best way to stop drugs from taking over society is to legalize and control them. That's the only way.

[tycho102]

The best way to stop drugs from taking over society is to legalize and control them. That's the only way.

There's a certain amount of truth to that, but it becomes a problem with social interaction. Opiates generally leave people unable to function, socially.

America spends $20 billion per year because we want Mexicans working for companies, so neither Democrats nor Republicans (actually Republican Corporatists, but they've just keep the name "Republican") have wanted secure borders for the past 40 years. It would destroy California's fruit and cotton industry, as well as other labor markets across the southern United States.

So, open borders. If it's open for people, it's open for drugs.

We've tried the counter-attack thing, going after Columbia's FARC and other narcotic militias across South America. Short of a full invasion and absolute subjugation of the entire countries, counter-attacks aren't going to work. But companies in America would still like the $20 billion per year, and you don't get that by telling the truth. Same way it works for university grants -- you pick the facts that support your cause, and that's what you present to the "decision makers" who have 3 minutes to spare for your presentation.




That's why the internet is a "series of tubes". That's a pretty decent analogy when you're a lobbist and a Senator only has 3 minutes for your presentation.

[bookworm_020]

I know the North Koreans were upset of the sinking, becaused they believed that the ship hadn't been implicated in the crime. The Navy was also upset as they couldn't organise to have a ship sink her, so the RAAF was called in to do it!

[VonHammer]

I know the North Koreans were upset of the sinking, becaused they believed that the ship hadn't been implicated in the crime. The Navy was also upset as they couldn't organise to have a ship sink her, so the RAAF was called in to do it!

the north koreans proly knew bout it, they jsut of course denied it.

[mbthegreat]

hmmm, they do this and then get all upset when one of theirs is sentenced to death for possession........

[Reaves]

hmmm, they do this and then get all upset when one of theirs is sentenced to death for possession........
Because we don't agree with capital punishment. Especially for drugs, some other crimes I think we should bring it in. Plus there is a big differance between sinking a ship and hanging someone. :roll:

Plus not everyone was upset. The government had a responsibility to aid an Australian citizen no matter what charges are laid against them. There was no major effort to influence a sovereign countries justice system.

Btw- Weed should be legal if alcohol is. And banning alcohol would be a bad move.

[bookworm_020]

I know the North Koreans were upset of the sinking, becaused they believed that the ship hadn't been implicated in the crime. The Navy was also upset as they couldn't organise to have a ship sink her, so the RAAF was called in to do it!
the north koreans proly knew bout it, they jsut of course denied it.

Most believe it one of the few sources of income to the North Koreans. It was interesting to note that one of the people on board the ship was a political officer. I wonder weather they would shoot him for getting caught, or for not getting the money!

[The Avon Lady]

Back in 2001, it was Japan's turn (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=657_1188187112) to deal with a NK ship.

[CptSimFreak]

Why not capture it and sell it? They could've made few quick greenbacks.

[P_Funk]

There's a certain amount of truth to that, but it becomes a problem with social interaction. Opiates generally leave people unable to function, socially.
Unless your dealer has an MD right?

If that OG on the corner had a Washington lobby then he'd get to operate out of Pharmasave too.

[diver]

Why not capture it and sell it? They could've made few quick greenbacks.

We did capture it.

But the thing was svery un-seaworthy, it really wasn't wrth selling.

Okay guys I think some of you are getting the wrong idea

The following did not happen:
We found an NK ship, suspected of running drugs and got the RAAF to blast it to pieces with a dumb bomb, with crew onboard and all.

The following however, did happen:
The pong su was tracked down the coast, it attempted to conduct a drugs transfer of the victorian coast, whilst under fed surveillance. guys on the ground were caught. ship attempted to bolt back up north. was pursued by a frigate. was boarded, crew captured. was taken into port. a few years later. after all evidence was bagged tagged, and addmitted into court. and after the ship was assesed as being unseaworthy and useless. It was taken out to sea. stopped dead in the water, and because no RAN assets were available for a live fire ex. the RAAF just blew it up for show.

[bradclark1]

Btw- Weed should be legal if alcohol is. And banning alcohol would be a bad move.
I have to agree with that. They are at the same 'drug' level to me. (Note: I don't do either)

[samniTe]

governments war on entrepreneurs!

[Jimbuna]

If the boats full of drugs....sink the fecka with them onboard (smugglers) :arrgh!:

[swifty]

US Customs and the DEA have have been sinking ships off the coast of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale for some time now. They are turned in to artificial reefs for sport fishing ans SCUBA diving. It's a way to keep them out of the hands of drug runners (they are the only ones who want them) and helps the tourism economy in the area.

The process is quite involved all hazardous materiales including, Oil, Fuel, sewage, asbestos, etc. must be removed prior to sinking in order to prevent an ecological disaster. The US Army Core of Engineers is placed in charge of blasting and sinking.

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/CustomsToday/2001/October/custoday_ecosystem.xml

[SUBMAN1]

I think this is a great way to get ships for target practice! The US should adopt their policies on this issue! We even get submarines around here that we can practice torpedoing! :up:

-S

[VonHammer]

I think this is a great way to get ships for target practice! The US should adopt their policies on this issue! We even get submarines around here that we can practice torpedoing! :up:

-S

yea, since a sub force really has nothin better to do it seems

[SUBMAN1]

yea, since a sub force really has nothin better to do it seems

Well, if we had a full strength sub force, there would be some time for practice! 40 or so subs is not going to cut it.

-S

[VonHammer]

yea it seems they may need them again- i mean with the way Russias been acting lately who knows what theryre up to. they need someone to keep an eye on them.

[Skybird]

It satisfies emotions, yes, but after all it is not more than shooting the messengers. We'll need to bomb those bosses who sent the message. They kill our families, and raise their children in that moral spirit of egoism, and violance. That's why we need to kill their clans and families instead. So that there is nobody left who could carry on their businesses once they are gone.

Either you see it as war, or you have already lost. Currently, our superior and highly socialised and oh so morally high developed civilization has voted for the latter. So why bombing that single ship? It even is not symbolic. It is nothing than a drop of water on the hot stone.

Go all the way, or don't go at all. If you start, and then do not go on, you make ridicule of yourself.

[Tchocky]

There's an awful lot under the heading of 'Drugs', too much to claim you can have a war against them. There are hard arguments for and against legalisation, and that multiplies further as you consider indivudual substances.
That "drugs destroy lives" is a product of both physiological effects and the criminalised nature of said drugs.

That's a bit Keyser Soze, Skybird :-?

[Skybird]

Is it (whatever that should be)? Let'S be precise: it is acceptance of more violant and martial action against gangsters and mobsters and cartel bosses than what an undifferentiated and unlimited well-meaning anti-authoritarian could bear. War against drug cartels? "But that is noisy! Not in my world! Better let people die in silence in dark corners, let families break apart, and junkeys locked away in closed hospital stations or steal and rob or prostitute themselves to strangers. Look how idyllic my world is!"

Some issue there are where i do not know any pardon, maybe because I had seen some of it from closer view. Torture is something like that, enforced prostitution - and drugs.

Those kinds of drugs that organized crime makes heavy profits with - usually is not of the kind of harmless consummation goods like Cannabis (careful when thinking it is harmless) you make it appear as in order to reject the need for more authoritarian countermeasures. Always unlimited tolerance for everything, right? Always rejecting hierarchies, eh? Where there is no power there can be no harm...

come over here, I can introduce you to a girlfriend of mine, she's still working in a psychiatric hospital. She can show you around a bit, then you learn in just one day what drugs of the sort we talk of really are: slow killers of social systems, and individual lives. Those making profits by selling them and destroying human life have given up civilization's protection of human rights. you can claim these rights only is so far as you respect them yourself. If you violate them to make a profit, you have no more demand to make to benefit from their protection, and as far as I am concerned it then is a question of "as little as possible but as much violance as needed to make you stop at all cost". - And if that kills you, I am not sorry, for you are no loss.

[The Avon Lady]

Yep. Banning half measures will solve a lot of problems, narcotics and more.

[swifty]

I think this is a great way to get ships for target practice! The US should adopt their policies on this issue! We even get submarines around here that we can practice torpedoing! :up:

-S

In a way they all ready do. When an US submarine receives a new MK-46 it doesn't have a war head. The torpedo must be test fired 2 to 3 times before it is made deadly. This ensures that all guidance and stacking are working property, don't want the thing turning back on you. At $52 million I don't see the need to be blowing them up.

[VonHammer]

I think this is a great way to get ships for target practice! The US should adopt their policies on this issue! We even get submarines around here that we can practice torpedoing! :up:

-S

In a way they all ready do. When an US submarine receives a new MK-46 it doesn't have a war head. The torpedo must be test fired 2 to 3 times before it is made deadly. This ensures that all guidance and stacking are working property, don't want the thing turning back on you. At $52 million I don't see the need to be blowing them up.

i guess that makes sense. thats just hard to belive that a torpedo can cost $52 million. well and it would be a waste of our tax dolloars

[bradclark1]

I think this is a great way to get ships for target practice! The US should adopt their policies on this issue! We even get submarines around here that we can practice torpedoing! :up:

-S

In a way they all ready do. When an US submarine receives a new MK-46 it doesn't have a war head. The torpedo must be test fired 2 to 3 times before it is made deadly. This ensures that all guidance and stacking are working property, don't want the thing turning back on you. At $52 million I don't see the need to be blowing them up.
The torpedo unit production costs from approximately $1.2-$1.4M million apiece. I can't see the warhead costing 40+ times the cost of a tomahawk though, even for a nuke configuration. A mk48 adcap with 650lb HE warhead only cost 2.5 million.

[TLAM Strike]

2.5 mil a fish huh? Maybe we should be arming our subs with a half load of old Mk 14s. That way they can still fight Ivan or whoever's SSNs and still have a cost effective time sinking Iranian patrol boats. :hmm:

[VonHammer]

or they could outsource the production to china but they mite need to get recalled for to much lead paint

[swifty]

The torpedo unit production costs from approximately $1.2-$1.4M million apiece. I can't see the warhead costing 40+ times the cost of a tomahawk though, even for a nuke configuration. A mk48 adcap with 650lb HE warhead only cost 2.5 million.

Your right I miss read the data sheet in 1999 26 were purchased for 52.8 mill.
http://www.fas.org/man/docs/fy99/navy/osdp1_wpn_u.pdf

Cost estimates for this weapon (MK48) are around $2 million each, rising to almost $3 million in some cases with upgrades factored in. source (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/team-torpedo-raytheon-partners-to-support-mk48-and-mk54-requirements-02533/)

[bradclark1]

Cost estimates for this weapon (MK48) are around $2 million each, rising to almost $3 million in some cases with upgrades factored in. source (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/team-torpedo-raytheon-partners-to-support-mk48-and-mk54-requirements-02533/)

Bottom line is I think we need to bring back the deck gun.:-?

[bookworm_020]

Cost estimates for this weapon (MK48) are around $2 million each, rising to almost $3 million in some cases with upgrades factored in. source (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/team-torpedo-raytheon-partners-to-support-mk48-and-mk54-requirements-02533/)
Bottom line is I think we need to bring back the deck gun.:-?

But the gun will cost $8 million and each shell $5,000 due to mark ups!:cry: Don't get me started on the increase in cost for insurance and OH&S training!:shifty:

[VonHammer]

yea and with todays technology im sure they can even have it conceled some where for when theryre underwater. and it probaly be more acurte to.

[Heibges]

Why not capture it and sell it? They could've made few quick greenbacks.

We did capture it.

But the thing was svery un-seaworthy, it really wasn't wrth selling.

Okay guys I think some of you are getting the wrong idea

The following did not happen:
We found an NK ship, suspected of running drugs and got the RAAF to blast it to pieces with a dumb bomb, with crew onboard and all.

The following however, did happen:
The pong su was tracked down the coast, it attempted to conduct a drugs transfer of the victorian coast, whilst under fed surveillance. guys on the ground were caught. ship attempted to bolt back up north. was pursued by a frigate. was boarded, crew captured. was taken into port. a few years later. after all evidence was bagged tagged, and addmitted into court. and after the ship was assesed as being unseaworthy and useless. It was taken out to sea. stopped dead in the water, and because no RAN assets were available for a live fire ex. the RAAF just blew it up for show.

Ah, it was in bad shape.

My friend bought a 23 ft Baja with twin 350 hp merc-cruisers for $5k at one of those Government Drug options here in the United States.

[VonHammer]

thats qutie a steal there. anyone see the Family Guy epsoide when peter, joe, clevland and glenn go to the police actuion and peter buys the boat? btw my grandpa has a 35ft Marlago center console with twin yamaha 250s

[Heibges]

Another guy offered my friend $10k for it the very same day.

But unfortunately, my friend kept the boat, did a lot of damage to it, and I don't remember if he made his money back or not.

But we had a great time on Lake Sunapee in New Hampshire for a couple of summers.