Airborne Assault

[Janus]

Anyone knows this series? I think it is hard to get in Europe and I was not able to download any demo or find a website being really dedicated to this game.
There seem to be many parts of this strategy game series which cover a lot of operations during WWII.

[Ori_b]

Funny,I just read about it on amazon. A friend is going back to the US for a month, and i was looking for some old games to buy and send to her address (amazon doesnt send video-games to my country :nope: ). Noticed this game while adding Jagged alliance 2 and Combat Mission anthology. There are some long (and warm) reviews for AA on amazon.

[SUBMAN1]

I heard this was out, but don't think I want it. Maybe its because I am getting tired of WWII?

-S

[Janus]

I've just read some reviews on amazon.com and the fact that Airborne Assault obviously has to be played in realtime frightens me off a bit.

[Grouchy]

http://www.panthergames.com/Links/index.html

Hope this helps

[larrysellars]

I just wanted to say that this is one of the better game series I've played recently. I've played both Highway to the Reich and Conquest of the Aegean, and I think any wargamer will love them. If you're scared of the "real-time" aspect, just know that the speed of the game can be adjusted or even paused entirely while you think over the situation and order your units.

There are two aspects of the game that I think raise this series above most others: competent subordinates and orders delay. This game is created so that you don't have to get bogged down in the details of what every single unit is doing. If you want a brigade to seize a town, simply order the brigade HQ to attack said area. You can issue parameters like formation, width, depth, aggressiveness, rate of fire, etc., or you can leave it in the hands of your subordinates. The brigade will then move close to the town, form up and attack it. You don't have to issue orders to each individual battalion or company if you don't want to, although the option is certainly available.

With respect to orders delay, depending on the size you're commanding and various other factors, it may take up to 2-3 hours to get a division up and moving from the time you ordered it. This really forces you to think ahead and it means that feints and probing attacks really work because once you commit your troops to a battle, getting them to move to a different part of the front will take hours.

I've rambled on long enough. I suggest you read some reviews about the series and make your own judgments, but I highly recommend it.

:up:

[Janus]

I've just got my hands on the Red devils over Arnhem demo and I am pretty much amazed by the game. I am surprised that I can actually order a bataillon HQ to attack something and they assign FUPs and move mortarts in supporting positions (if available) :o

The demo tutorial manual is a bit thin thought, I don't understand the differences between the orders in the game (for example what does "Probe" do? I mean I can imagine what it means in reallife but what is its special use in the game? Also I do not understand the Threat LOS tool)

"Easy to play but hard to master" really applies to this one!

[Egan]

Been playing this series for years although I have not got around to buying the latest one yet.

It is a total blast. Even against the AI games it can be a real challenge. I remember holding an area of Arnhem north of the bridge with a batt. of Paras and watching with amazement as the Germans began to probe my defences and launch a counter attack at the weakest point.

I've had so much fun with this game. I await their proposed Eastern front module with excitement even it it does turn out to be 5 years (or longer,) down the line.

[Grouchy]

The demo tutorial manual is a bit thin thought, I don't understand the differences between the orders in the game (for example what does "Probe" do? I mean I can imagine what it means in reallife but what is its special use in the game? Also I do not understand the Threat LOS tool)

"Easy to play but hard to master" really applies to this one!
A Probe is largely the same as an Attack. However, the default thresholds for Aggro and Acceptable Losses are set to Low instead of High, resulting in an increased probability that the force will exceed their casualty threshold when they meet serious opposition. In which case, you will receive an “urgent” message to that effect.

Of course you can call off the attack at this stage by issuing another order. If you choose not to, though, the AI may intervene. Unlike in an attack, where the force will repeatedly Assault until either they achieve the objective or receive a new order, a probing force may decide to Bunker Down if things get too threatening. The force will retreat a short distance and defend until its next reassessment. If your probe force decides to bunker down, you will receive a message to that effect.

Best used it for recon in force or diversions.

Regarding the TLOS tool: The brighter the red line, the greater the perceived threat (based on Intel).

[Janus]

Thanks for the explanation of the probe attack, I am currently trying to find out how to establish a "move to contact" mission to a force of any size.
What I want to do is move to a possible FUP for an attack with a single detached unit as a front scout (aggressiveness low, casualty acceptance low) which stops its movement once (serious) contact is made so that the main body can evade or flank the spotted enemy.
The problem is: how do I cancel orders of both the main body and scout element to react to the revealed enemy?

How do you generally manage your forces? Let's say you have a regiment sized force to your disposal and have to seize and hold 3 objectives. Do you order the regiment HQ to attack the 3 objectives sequentially or do you send out a company or bataillon out for recon first?

It is really hard to find out in which level one should micromanage the forces.

[larrysellars]

Just as a disclaimer, I've not played Red Devils Over Arnhem, so my answers may be slightly different from what you'd expect. In fact, I think all the scenarios in Red Devils are in Highway to the Reich, which also has the battles around Nijmegen and Eindhoven.

To cancel the orders of any unit, simply give them a new order. If you want them to hold still while you figure things out, you can give them a defend order and have the formation be In-Situ, which tells the unit(s) to defend where they are. Just be aware that due to orders delay (I'm not sure if you have this on or not), it may take a while for them to respond.

Unless you specify differently, any group of units that travels a decent distance will go in road formation. In this formation, the HQ will assign a unit as the advance guard who will act as your scouting unit. Depending on your route settings, aggressiveness, etc., you can set it so that the main body of the group will avoid any enemy units discovered by the advance guard, or you can set it to try to clear the path of all enemies.

Managing your overall forces is largely personal and you have to figure out what works best for you. I often have at least one or two detached units whose sole responsibility is scouting (always try for a lightly armored motorised unit). They often get mauled over the course of battle, but their information is essential. Micromanaging is up to you and based on the situation. If you need a regiment to capture a heavily defended bridge, then send a regiment. If you think it's lightly guarded or even undefended, a single company detached from a nearby battalion will do the trick.

Your question about the 3 objectives with a regiment is dependent on so many factors: reinforcements (yours and the enemy's), the value of each objective (can I hold 2 and leave the 3rd untouched and still claim a major victory?), enemy strength (here's where scouting is critical), choke points (bridges, cities that are intersections of multiple roads), and other things. I usually play as the Allies which means that the Germans will only get stronger as the battle wears on, so I try to strike quickly at multiple points and then dig-in and wait for the counter-attack.

Honestly, if you buy either Highway to the Reich or Conquest of the Aegean, they both come with excellent manuals and 2 full blown tutorials that will show you almost everything you need to know. (I assume it's the same with Red Devils, but I can't vouch for it.) The learning curve is long, but they do a superb job of getting you up to speed.

[Grouchy]

1.
If you play at painfully realistic I don't think you are waiting on replans (and the addional delays) in those situations.
What i use is a lot of intermediate waypoints.

Intermediate Waypoints can be moved without causing a replan – so if you are looking to bypass any resistance on a Move, or during the Move to the FUP phase of an Attack, it’s a good idea to plot the route using waypoints every 1000-2000m and send a single unit to scout ahead. When the scout discovers enemy defences, you can move the waypoints to bypass the enemy. You can also add and delete waypoints without incurring delay – as long as you don’t change the order location or attack FUP in the process.



2.
If you give orders to bigger formations like bde's/regt's, it will automattically assign roles to units. For example a road column formation will have an advance guard (recon), followed by a main guard, then the hub ( which is the superior unit ) followed by one or more filler groups, with the rear guard at the end.

However I tend to give orders on Bn level while concentrating the artillery and keep it under my direct personal command. That way I'm pretty flexible and have the ability to support my troops quickly when needed.

One problem might popup here.... . Now with BftB, CotA and HttR all those Regt's/Bde's have seperate subordinates in the forms of Coys and Plt's, but i think in RDOA some of the british units are still at Bde & Regt level (It's a long time ago that i played the RDOA demo).

[flintlock]

I own and regularly play CotA. It's a fantastic game with a competent AI.

Highly recommended.

[Janus]

Right now this game is confusing me as much as it is thrilling me.
In the first demo scenario (Operation Market Garden phase I so to speak), I ordered the regiment to attack the Arnhem bridge.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7866/aajw5.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aajw5.jpg)
The FUP is a bit east to the regiment HQ (top left blue circle in the screenshot) - I know it might be a crappy FUP I chose but anyway I wonder why they effectively only sent a single company to attack the bridge (second blue circle in the south)?
All the other units that are part of the attack on the red main road, have been remaining in their positions for the last 5 to 7 hours without moving?!
I understood the scout element (about a bataillon) waited sometimes for the main body of the force during the march to the FUP but why is only 1 company assaulting and the other guys not doing anything?

Might the single company still be meant as a scout element? If so why did the HQ send in an AT platoon too?

[larrysellars]

Honestly, that looks like a group moving in road column formation. What were your settings for the attack? What type of formation did you choose and how wide and deep did you set the parameters? If you left it all to the computer and that's what it came up with, time to find a new commander (i.e.--you need to take a little more direct control :up: ).

The FUP might've been a little too distant (looks like a good 2km to the enemy), but that shouldn't have caused that much loss of cohesion. I honestly don't know what went wrong there. Perhaps the computer took over and decided to enact the battle as it happened in real life by sending the groups piecemeal to the bridge. :o

Hopefully someone else can chime in with the correct reason. Good luck, Janus.

[Janus]

Other companies moved into the attack a few minutes after I had taken this screenshot.
In fact I had the formation, frontage, route and most of the other parameters set to "unspecified" or "auto" because I wanted to see what the AI commander comes up with.

I wonder what the aggressiveness parameter does, I suppose it tells the units how much they are allowed to engage targets of opportunity that block the way during the way to the FUP.
Yesterday I saw 2 bataillons moving into their FUP and when the scout element made contact, it remainded stationary while the other forces avoided the enemy and continued moving on a covered route into the FUP.
Nevertheless the single enemy company managed to slow down the attack significantly which in the end meant a total defeat for me in this short 12h scenario.

Does the formation parameter for orders specify the formation of the wole unit (for example a regiment) or for every singel unit seperately? Same about the frontage and depth.

In the meantime I found an AAR for Highway to the Reich which is written in a Tutorial style manner. Unfortunately HTTR is almost impossible to get in Germany from Matrix Games themselves it costs about 40€ + shipping costs :x

[larrysellars]

The aggressivness parameter tells the unit(s) how active they can be when engaging an enemy. A low aggression unit will be more likely to bypass or run away when engaged in combat, while a high aggression unit will be more likely to fight and fight hard. Another key feature of the Aggro scale is that when set to max, the commander will push all his units into the battle and leave little or no reinforcements. For example, a normal attack with a battalion of 3 companies will have 2 companies making the attack while the 3rd is used as a reserve unit. Setting the aggro to max will have all 3 companies in the attack with no reserve.

The formation settings apply to all units as a whole. If you have 1 battalion and order it a formation with a width of 600 meters, the commander will spread all his forces units to cover the 600 meters.

Matrix games are definitely overpriced for too long. It's been 4 years since Highway came out and it still sells at full price from their website. I picked up my copy from gogamer.com for $20, although I don't think they ship to Europe.

Check out EBay, most people there ship worldwide, and it'll be a lot cheaper than 40 euros. :up:

[Janus]

Thanks for the answers larrysellars.
I've restarted the scenario from which the above screenshot was taken. This time I ordered 1 bataillon to defend the western exit of Arnhem to prevent any enemy reinforcements coming in from Arnhem to support the forces at the railway bridge which was to be attacked by almost the whole rest of the regiment.
All in all it went quite well this time although my time schedule was not met and the scenario ended anyway after 24hrs because its only a demo.

It's hard to tell how long a unit of a certain size takes to travel a certain distance (of course there are external factors like amount of enemy resistance).
Does the command delay kick in every full hour (for example 1400, 1500, 1600,...) or is it dependant from the start time of the scenario (if the scenario starts at 1307 for example, are orders executed at 1407, 1507 and so on)?

There a quite a bunch of decently priced copies of Red Devils over Arnhem available in Germany at amazon or ebay but as Highway to the Reich covers the whole operation and hase improved functions I prefer having it over "Red Devils" of course.

[larrysellars]

Glad to help. :up:

Figuring out speeds and ETA's are tough, and usually come through playing the game for a while. I still can't guess properly and most of my ETA's are "soon" or "not for a while". ;)

I'm not sure how Red Devils handles orders delay, but Highway handles it based on a multitude of factors, most importantly size. Issuing a command to a division takes a lot longer for them to get sorted and organized as the division hq has to issue orders to the regiment hq, which in turn orders the battalion hq, which tells the companies what to do. In Highway, there's actually a stat that shows how long a unit will be delayed from the moment it receives its orders to when it starts moving to carry them out.

From the manual:

If you gave an order for the 82nd Abn Div HQ to move, then the period required before the force as a whole starts moving will be

Total Orders Delay = Div HQ delay (50mins) + Regiment HQ delay (45) + Bn HQ delay (42) + Coy delay (33) = 170 Minutes.

That means that from the time you order the 82nd Div to move somewhere, it will take them 3 hours before you see them start to move. Completely bypassing the chain of command and ordering a battalion to move would mean less delay (only 75 minutes), but those forces can't coordinate with the rest of the division unless you micromanage like crazy. There's also one other caveat for the allies: there are (usually) no order delays for the first hour of a scenario. This represents the idea that units would have a set of standing orders when they landed.

Good luck on trying to find a cheap copy of Highway to the Reich. It's a good game and you won't regret picking it up.

[Egan]

Yeah, 'Highway' is the one to start out with, You get all the scenarios from RDOA and the benefit of the enhanced game mechanics and slightly improved graphics.

I've got my copy sitting right here beside me. I might just have to reinstall it and give the original Arnhem scenario yet another spin...

[Blacklight]

It just doesn't get better than Highway the the Reich and Conquest of the Agean for WWII ground combat sims. Best battlefield sim I've ever played. Don't let the "Realtime" scare you off. This is no Warcraft or Command and Conquer. These games are like you sitting in the command center... knowing only what your units know... the units on the map represent the relative position of the units but not exactly where they are. Orders to move are carried out in real time exatly as they would when you give the order for a unit to do something.. not to mention, there is a command structure linking whole sections of units together so you can give your objectives to the highest ranking units and they'll pass down their orders to best carry out the operations to their underlings etc..etc... or you can just contact individual groups and order them directly. The Airborne Assault games are not your typical real time strategy game at all. There's no comparison.
There's even a mod for Conquest of the Agean (I don't know if one exists for Highway to the Reich) to replace the sounds of battle with quieter and more realistic battlefield sounds like what you would hear if you were a commander sitting in a bunker while the fighting is going on around you.

As I've said numerous times before.. Highway to the Reich, Conquest of the Agean, Operational Art of War III, Harpoon III Advanced Naval Warfare, Orbiter, and of course Dangerous Waters, and Silent Hunter III, are the games that will probably never leave my hard drive or not anytime soon.