Convoy Spacing

[dmlavan]

Is there a "standard" convoy spacing in stock SH3 and/or GWX? From my observations, it looks like approx 1km between columns, and possibly the same between ships in a column. I found an old (2005) thread that talked about 500m in the original SH3, but it seems that it's more than that. Or... is convoy spacing not standard and can change?

[bigboywooly]

Convoy spacing has been increased in GWX to allow warships easier entry amongst the merchants

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

bah. they didnt drop DC's near merchie's in RL :shifty:

if a U-boat got in a convoy then the escorts couldnt do znything except sail above them. they didnt fire for fear they would hit one of the merchie's

[Foghladh_mhara]

If I recall though even in GWX the spacings can differ. My favoured technique is to get between columns and lie doggo at periscope depth. The usual spacing is 1000m so I try to put myself in between so I can fire the stern and bow torps at targets. I tried this tactic with a convoy in '43 once and was very disturbed to see the spacings were down to 500m. Nearly got run over. Had no option but to dive down and fast. This of course brought the escorts onto me.

Very unfair I thought.

[mowgli99]

if i'm inside i always fear being rammed. Dangerous stuff you know.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

bah. they didnt drop DC's near merchie's in RL :shifty:

if a U-boat got in a convoy then the escorts couldnt do znything except sail above them. they didnt fire for fear they would hit one of the merchie's

BULL COOKIES!!!:roll:

If you think for one moment that an escort group commodore would just sit on the outside of the convoy and simply observe while a U-boat merrily sinks all his charges...

Your are dead wrong!!!

<...and that's a fact Jack>

[melnibonian]

bah. they didnt drop DC's near merchie's in RL :shifty:

if a U-boat got in a convoy then the escorts couldnt do znything except sail above them. they didnt fire for fear they would hit one of the merchie's
According to Clay Blair Jr when a U-Boat was inside the convoy the standard precedure was
1. Locate the Submarine via star shells or radar
2. Bring every possible gun to fire on the submarine (that included both merchant and escort ships) to sink it or keep it down to avoid more attacks.

[Jimbuna]

bah. they didnt drop DC's near merchie's in RL :shifty:

if a U-boat got in a convoy then the escorts couldnt do znything except sail above them. they didnt fire for fear they would hit one of the merchie's

BULL COOKIES!!!:roll:

If you think for one moment that an escort group commodore would just sit on the outside of the convoy and simply observe while a U-boat merrily sinks all his charges...

Your are dead wrong!!!

<...and that's a fact Jack>

BULL COOKIES!!!....INDEED!!!
This is from the proverbial horses mouth (my 84 year old father....a veteran of WWII merchant navy....and still around to tell me of his dismay at my choice of side in this subsim) :rock:
An escort commanders absolute priority on gaining a positive detection of a sub was.....DESTROY AT WHATEVER COST AND MEANS AT YOUR DISPOSAL.
What my father witnessed in the way of seamen being run down by boats (merchant and warship) whilst trying to stay afloat in lifejackets in pursuit of a contact I would not like to recount on this forum, purely out of respect for the families of those brave souls. (the British seamen)

Can someone jog my memory but wasn't there a B&W war movie (The Cruel Sea or In which We Serve) perhaps...I'm not 100% certain but I think the escort commander was played by Jack Hawkins....and it clearly depicted depth charging an area where British seamen were floating in the water, then running them down, all in the cause of prosecuting a sub contact ?
IIRC there was an outcry by the public because up to then it was never wideaspread knowledge.
Or how about this (forgive the OT rant).....Murmansk convoys equipped with CAM ships whose sole fighter had only a small fuel tank to make it lighter and therefore easier to catapult off a very short gantry. Life expectancy in the water 2 mins max. Escorts orders... NOT TO STOP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...therefore it has been known for the pilot to ditch beyond the horizon saving morale sapping experiences for those who might witness it.

I feel quite fortunate....not only have I read the books but I also have my father around to further educate me.......LEST WE FORGET :nope:

As so aptly put before me "....and that's a fact Jack" :arrgh!:

[IrischKapitan]

Murmansk convoys equipped with CAM ships whose sole fighter had only a small fuel tank to make it lighter and therefore easier to catapult off a very short gantry. Life expectancy in the water 2 mins max. Escorts orders... NOT TO STOP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...therefore it has been known for the pilot to ditch beyond the horizon saving morale sapping experiences for those who might witness it.

I feel quite fortunate....not only have I read the books but I also have my father around to further educate me.......LEST WE FORGET :nope:

As so aptly put before me "....and that's a fact Jack" :arrgh!:

They must have being brave buggers knowing once they ran out of juice there was only one way to go......

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

bah. they didnt drop DC's near merchie's in RL :shifty:

if a U-boat got in a convoy then the escorts couldnt do znything except sail above them. they didnt fire for fear they would hit one of the merchie's
BULL COOKIES!!!:roll:

If you think for one moment that an escort group commodore would just sit on the outside of the convoy and simply observe while a U-boat merrily sinks all his charges...

Your are dead wrong!!!

<...and that's a fact Jack>

im gonna stop reading books then, seems like they are always wrong :shifty:
and you GWX guy's may teach me about U-boat warfare :D

[Jimbuna]

Murmansk convoys equipped with CAM ships whose sole fighter had only a small fuel tank to make it lighter and therefore easier to catapult off a very short gantry. Life expectancy in the water 2 mins max. Escorts orders... NOT TO STOP UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...therefore it has been known for the pilot to ditch beyond the horizon saving morale sapping experiences for those who might witness it.

I feel quite fortunate....not only have I read the books but I also have my father around to further educate me.......LEST WE FORGET :nope:

As so aptly put before me "....and that's a fact Jack" :arrgh!:

They must have being brave buggers knowing once they ran out of juice there was only one way to go......

It was not always the case....ABSOLUTELY EVERY decision was made 'on the spot' and was fully dependant on the circumstances at the time :yep:

[Venatore]

I'm currently reading the book "Bitter Ocean" by David Fairbank White; this is up there with the best. On page 60; the writer describes convoys and this is an extract from that page;

"On any given day, four to five convoys were in motion on the sea, heading for Britain or returning to America. They were huge. It took about two weeks for a convoy to cross. A typical convoy had some forty ships in it, arranged in eight columns each five rows deep. There were 1,000 yards between columns, 400-600 yards between a ship and the ones ahead and behind her. When fully spread out on the face of the sea, each flotilla covered a tremendous area, perhaps twelve or fifteen square miles".

What struck me as truely amazing was another passage, this is an extract from page 61;

"Consider then the almost incredible skill of the masters who steamed for two weeks across the Atlantic, holding position faithfully & constantly, adjusting speed, advancing & backing, staying just 1,000 yards from the ships to the left & right, 500 yards from the ships in the back & in front. With a thoroughly varied cross section of differing engines, varying steering qualities, different hull characteristics, the ships nudged forward, dropped back, yawed, bobbed across the ocean.

Thoses convoy crews must have been extraordinary people. This is a must have book.

[Canovaro]

I believe in GWX space is about 800 meters. Usually there's 6 rows in a large convoy, so that's 5x800=4000 meters of convoy width. That's useful info if you plan to ambush one ;)
But it may differ, the dev team can tell us more about this.

[melnibonian]

If I remember correctly SH3 allows up to 1000m between convoy lines. In reality these distances were larger (that's why it was possible for U-Boats to penetrate) but it's a limitation of the game engine.

[bigboywooly]

Convoys do vary in spacing
Depends on convoy location
Most are 1000m
Some are 900 and 800 etc
i may even have missed a couple that are lower
Tis possible as are lots of them :rotfl:

[melnibonian]

Thanks for the clarification BBW :up:

[mr chris]

I'm currently reading the book "Bitter Ocean" by David Fairbank White; this is up there with the best.

Have got that one in the to read pile. Have spent a small fortune on books this year.
Trouble is now when i finsh a book i cant make up my mind what one to read next.:damn:
It is time i read one of the WWII books i picked up this year.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

if i'm inside i always fear being rammed. Dangerous stuff you know.

I take 2 or 3 aob readings before I camp out at periscope depth for the attack. I try to park exactly in the middle of the 1 km spacing so I get a stern shot and a bow shot.
Granted I am in early 1940 right now, so I can get away with it, plus early I have to go with impact detonators so this sets me up for some nice 90 degree aob shots. Later, as ASW gets better and my magnetic arming is more reliable. I will have to revise my tactics.

[IrischKapitan]

I'm currently reading the book "Bitter Ocean" by David Fairbank White; this is up there with the best.
Have got that one in the to read pile. Have spent a small fortune on books this year.
Trouble is now when i finsh a book i cant make up my mind what one to read next.:damn:
It is time i read one of the WWII books i picked up this year.
Another book, completly naval unrelated ''In With The Jocks'' by Peter White.
Its about a british army leiutenant and the liberation of europe. Its up with the best of millitary memoirs. I read it, and I never thought the same about the liberation of europe again.. :yep: