View Full Version : Enemy A/C south of Midway OR tale of 48 single engine planes 2000 miles from a base
Okay - this is simply stupid - I was jumped by no less than 30 pairs (yes pairs) of Zeros or Vals starting south of Midway (within sight of the island) and continuing to the central pacific. It felt more like frogger as you sit there and get overflown by pairs of fighters and dive bombers ABSOLUTELY STUPID!!!!! Yes there is no carrier as it would have been blown out of the water (within sight of Midway late 1942) .
I am patched to 1.3 and was wondering if this was a bug?
There is no reason at all in game why a CV (or 3, or 4) could not be there.
The fact that you saw vals pretty much proves there was at least one CV nearby.
tater
Ducimus
08-24-07, 05:01 PM
Ill bet i get exact opposite complaints in TM 1.6 :roll:
Heheh.
The problem with the planes in stock (from CVs) is that since they have such huge range you see a zillion planes, but you could be many hundreds of miles from the CV.
In RL, unless sending a strike out, you'd be lucky to see ANY aircraft as far as 2-300 miles, and those would be strictly recon planes. Even those would be based on likely action with the enemy, not SOP.
Any sort of constant CAP for CVs would be within visual range of the TF. I have thought about BP-cloning the CV planes, and dropping the range to 50nm or so to be "CAP" planes. Course the CAP would need to be reduced to 1 plane (unless it's squadrons, then they all need to be 0, IMO)
Then at least if you saw them, you'd know you were CLOSE.
tater
Ducimus
08-24-07, 05:18 PM
I still want to know how many planes are considered a squadron since in stock, airbases have like 9 or 10 squadrons of various planes.
Seems like it must be planes, the numbers used on the CVs are VERY close to the actual plane counts on carriers. If they are squadrons, CVs have about 10X too many planes on them. If they are squadrons, the airgroups need to be 2 of each type of plane.
tater
The weird part was that I started encountering them just outside of Midway - significantly after the Battle of Midway. Then on a line between Midway Island and Hokkaido Japan it looked like frogger (2 planes flying one way and often encountering more flying the opposite direction). BTW the range of the Val was around 915 and the Zero was around a 1000 if the pilot new how to lean the engine appropriatly - something I would not ever expect in an AI as it would be a waste of time here. A Carrier Battle Group???/ Unlikely - never had any contact and the nearest IJN Assets were thousands of miles away. Anyway - based on what I saw and behaviour of the A/C I am wondering if it was a bug.
No, it was a carrier.
One, the game very simply deals with aircraft, they have a radius, and inside that radius it "rolls a die" to see if you encounter any. Once spotted, the die roll is weighted, so you'll see a lot (nevermind that CVs never flew all their planes around at extreme range in a search pattern, lol).
Two, the Val extreme range is set to 750 in stock I think.
The stock missions might be poorly designed, but it's not more complicated than that.
So it's not a "bug" per se, but it is a problem with the game---one that can be modded pretty easily.
tater
Renesisfury
12-02-07, 11:17 AM
Had the same issue, followed the planes along their return flight path, was not able to find anything, no sound contact or anything else. So if I understand correctly, if the carrier was within Val or Kate range I should have been able to pick them up on my sonar?
Torplexed
12-02-07, 12:25 PM
Had the same issue, followed the planes along their return flight path, was not able to find anything, no sound contact or anything else. So if I understand correctly, if the carrier was within Val or Kate range I should have been able to pick them up on my sonar?
Not necessarily. Planes can fly a lot further out than the range of the hydroplane noise their carrier group makes. It wasn't unheard of for the Japanese to base Vals and Kates on shore airstrips too, although that can't be the case around Midway.
This is a BUG.
They are coming from the carriers set to attack Midway.
What happens is this. The game has 2 types of groups. "Scripted" are units placed into a group by hand. They appear on a certain date, and head on their way. "Random" groups are set to spawn with a % chance on a date and time, with a % chance for each ship in the group.
Random groups do not exist until spawned.
The scripted units have a bug. While the ships do not appear until the date/time they spawn, their AIRGROUPS do. So you have all the Midway CV force's planes flying around spawning out of thin air.
This bug is in stock, and to some extent in TM since the Midway group is still scripted.
RSRD doesn't have this problem because he uses a random group for Midway (random only in name, all the right ships are there with the spawn %s set to 100%). The trade off is you are limited to the formations that SH4 will generate. The stock Midway is horrid, period, no redeeming qualities, plus it has this airgroup bug. ICL/TM has an accurate Midway (the formation of the Kido Butai is accurate, with a 7km spacing, and a guard DD a few hundred meters astern of each CV aligned with the Port side of the flight deck), but also has the airgroup bug (the changes in CV airgroups mitigate this to near zero though). RSRD has a somewhat accurate disposition of ships, and no problems associated with scripted missions.
My personal plan is to experiment with something a little crazy to get the best of both worlds, but I need to test it.
tater
Considering the aircraft ranges. it's not that likely you can hear a task force even after cruising in that direction for a long time based on sighting aircraft which might be up to 750 miles out from the TF.
I had a recent mission between Australia and Timor where the air was flooded with aicraft. There were no less than 4 within radar in the air constantly for days. The flight paths were also very confusing. Turned out I was near a carrier task force AND land based aircraft. I eventually intercepted the TF but it took severals days. Only near the end did I detect them with sound when I finally picked up the escorts and flanked in to investigate.
-Pv-
One thing my air mod does is grossly reduce aircraft ranges, particularly on CVs.
In reality, there are 4 types of typical RL air ops that we need to think about:
1. Maritime Patrol. This is the biggie. H6Ks, H8Ks, and G4Ms (G3M Nells, too, if we had them) flying around looking for shipping. This should be SINGLE PLANES, never the 2 plane elements we see in game. Never.
2. ASW Patrol. Similar to 1, though in addition to radial patterns, you might see them with convoys, or flying along the convoys routes. These groups might actually be multiple planes, too.
3. CAP. This would be fighters (maybe some VBs for a TF) orbiting a CV/CVBG within visual range (at altitude) of the TF, or within visual range of the airbase (if land-based).
4. Airstrike Groups.
Discussion:
# 4 first. Why? Because the only time you'd EVER see large numbers of planes with bombs on them is a strike group heading to a target. Period. Some sort of CAP or ready planes on the ground or CV might attack a submarine, but NEVER more than a very few. Never. Any large group of bombers would be on their way someplace, and they wouldn't attack you (they have bigger fish to fry), or they are RTB, and have no bombs.
# 1 is pretty well represented by the airbases/airgroups/airstrike.cfg we have now, including long ranges, except the 1-2 plane thing, they should ALWAYS be alone. I added Maritime Patrol sairbases that have only the right kind of planes for this.
# 3 is easy to mod (I did) by making "BP-clones" of the CV planes, and setting the range to 40-60km. CV airgroups were made much smaller. A given CV might have 3 planes in the air at any time. I added a couple VBs to keep players honest. :) Lurker used the dummybomb idea to get A6Ms to strafe. I might add those in next rev.
#2 is not added explicitly yet, but I have a few ideas I need to test.
I think that using the stock aircraft ranges except for units that were solely maritime patrol outfits is a mistake. The CV air groups should never be a full RL load of planes. There is zero chance that a CV would be able to prosecute a sub with more than a couple ready aircraft. Remember that to launch or recieve planes a CV TF needs to turn into the wind, too. CVs with no planes at all is more realistic than stock SH4, for example. 3-5 is OK for CAP as long as the ranges are dropped to no more than maybe 20-30 miles.
tater
Steeltrap
12-02-07, 06:34 PM
Yeah, aircraft are screwy in SH4. They were also screwy in SH3, just differently.
Tater, I don't know what similarities exist between SH3 and 4, but NYGM did a great job with getting aircraft to strafe you. Perhaps you could ask? Pardon me if you've already done so - just trying to be helpful!
All of this brings home to me how irritating it is that SD radar is so horribly done in SH4. It was one of THE most crucial tools US subs had (well, both SD and SJ in fact). I keep saying it, to no avail, but SD should:
- be A-scope.
- never give a bearing to a contact. It never did in any version in WWII US subs.
- the report you receive should be "SD contact, 'x' miles, closing/steady/moving away". As things stand now you do one of 2 things:
1. dive every time you hear 'radar contact' and know it can't be SJ radar (either because you haven't got SJ or you can't find anything on the screens), or
2. turn on map contacts, in which case the contact will be plotted exactly and show as 'extremely fast'. This helps in that you know it's an aircraft, but is completely wrong in every other respect.
If the developers want to work on something that is egregiously wrong and crucial to the whole experience, here is a good place to start. That they've not addressed it makes me think they can't.....
If you've not guessed, this is one of my pet hates about SH4. Sure, the German radar was crap, so getting it right isn't such an issue, but radar was arguably the single greatest advantage USA subs had in their war against Japan....for it to be so screwed really ticks me off!!! (consider that Dick O'Kane relates encountering one, ONLY ONE, escort with radar in his entire career in Tang, while even corvettes in the Atlantic had radar at a comparable time....think of the implications of that for the submarine attacking a convoy - it's pretty staggering!)
Getting back to the original topic....I also encountered the aircraft bonanza around Midway in a career....I just rolled my eyes and spent the best part of a week in game submerged, popping up for air periodically.
Cheers
Powerthighs
12-02-07, 06:46 PM
Excellent info.
I agree with you Steeltrap regarding the SD operation (and the sub physics) being the two primary issues that aren't just annoying, but have a large negative impact on the gameplay itself.
Sorry not buying the CV thing as that is speculation - these A/C encounters existed at various times well into July 1945 - so the thought if the IJN with a carrier is nonsense. A bug makes a lot if sense - particularly if you are slow to dive and are spotted - the amount of A/C encounters goes up dramatically after that. Regarding the sound issue. I will say that WWII Technology could not exploit the sound of a CV or any other noise source at a significant range. However fact is that sound travels trans oceanic ranges under proper conditions (deep water and a a positive or a negative Sound Speed Profile). So it is feasible to detect a carrier or merchant in excess of 300 nm (600K yards)
switch.dota posted this image. His estimate of the center of the aircraft is marked X. Note that he took MANY images, even made a movie.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/712/sh42007083122212351yb0.jpg
That X... is also where the Nagumo force spawns.
Being spotted makes total sense, that's exactly how air encounters in SH4 work. If you are detected, you go from a small % chance of an airstrike being generated every X minutes, to a very large % chance of an airstrike every X minutes. Airgroups need not be attached to anything. Planes spawn out of thin air. There is no airbase near the X, however, just 3 CVs in the Midway mission (4 in any mods that fix it).
tater
elanaiba
12-03-07, 04:26 AM
Planes do spawn out of thin air, but if there's no airbase/CV to support them/nothing for the strike to originate in, within range, there's no airstrike.
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Steeltrap
12-03-07, 08:21 PM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Presumably the scripted stuff was designed primarily for single missions, in which case it wouldn't matter.
I suppose i can do a test and add a massive CV group to some other layer on the other side of the earth and test it in a more controlled way. Lurker's method certainly solves the problem, but for my campaign I wanted to see the ships arrayed as I might have seen them in RL.
tater
BTW, while I'm the first in line to make various criticisms (hopefully constructive) of SH4, the mechanics of the campaign system is NOT one of them. While the scripted stuff might have a bug in campaign mode, it's not a problem in single missions.
Now I'd criticize the content of the stock campaign, but the system itself is remarkably robust and easy to work with. A big :up: to the devs for it, it rocks.
tater
elanaiba
12-04-07, 02:59 AM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
You got to admit this is a very very difficult bug to discover :( We'll be investigating it.
John Channing
12-04-07, 06:57 AM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
How about showing a little more respect, please.
JCC
No kidding, elanaiba. Actually, if you search the forum for other threads on the subject, you'll see me explaining why there couldn't possibly be a CV where people were complaining about the centroid of planes. I changed my mind as you can see.
BTW, the image I posted was from TM, and the Nagumo force has been moved west slightly from stock I think (you'd think I'd remember, lol). It's still there in stock, though.
When I realized that the center was right there, and the dates were working out, it seemed pretty likely.
It is very hard to find, frankly. Any of the other scripted groups are likely starting close enough to land that you'd think the planes were coming from an air base and not think twice.
Steeltrap
12-04-07, 08:20 PM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
How about showing a little more respect, please.
JCC
Much of my 'negative comments' stems from the frustration of how close things are to what many people would consider ideal makes the glaring issues (SD radar, AI generally) all the more frustrating.
SD radar - A-scope, non-directional. Gives range only, never bearing. Fact is it is done poorly in this sim, and it was crucial to the abilities of US subs (compare their radar with U-Boats and you very quickly appreciate how significant it was).
JCC, with all respect, this material is basic. I suspect the devs know it all too well, and for some reason never got it to work.
However, as I am a fan of subsims, and generally like to think I make posts aimed at improving things, I shall apologise if my post was offensive (I meant it a bit tongue-in-cheek, but can understand that that isn't obvious).
So,
Should my previous comment have caused any offense to anyone, especially the developers, then I apologise and unreservedly withdraw it.
Cheers all!
Steeltrap
12-04-07, 08:30 PM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
You got to admit this is a very very difficult bug to discover :( We'll be investigating it.
Yes, a silly remark on my part - with anything of this complexity, odd things like this will happen. I have been plenty critical of other things I think should be fixed, but having a cheap shot at you over something this obscure is poor on my part (as JCC rightly pointed out).
Apologies for that comment of mine!
Incidentally, I have posted in other threads saying you devs get 10 out of 10 for communicating with we enthusiasts as freely as you do, so I'd like to reinforce that sentiment!
Cheers
Hey just wanted to pass on a thanks for the overall discussion - I know there will be no perfect sim - I really enjoy the game (both of them) and will be happy to support any follow on effort (even U Boats in the Pacific or maybe the Nimitz shows up in 1941 - oh wait that was done already - :lol: ). Along the same line as this there are Japanese A/C flying from Wake (yes in 1945). I think the real culript is likely a robust plane generator that wants to make it more challenging - even if it cost's a little in the reality department.
Thank you for this thread.
I have just started out on my first Career of the game and am on my second mission to deploy to Honshu. The date is May 24th 1942, and about 900km from Midway on a bearing of 280 I started to encounter a steady stream of aircraft, all reported to me by radar contacts (I have a radar installed but can't switch it on, although the crew obviously have no problem doing so).
This was becoming so anoying I almost decided to unistall the whole game and put it in the bin. Constantly being draged out of time compression, having to crash dive, re surface and repeat, for over an hour to get almost no where, was becoming incredibly boring.
Fortunately I began to realise it might well be a bug, thats why I investigated it and found this post.
So I'll persevere and hopefully things will get better when I eventually get out of this area.
Thanks D
Nisgeis
12-13-08, 03:36 AM
Welcome aboard dazkaz!
How do you get a map with so much detail in water dept and all these plane markings and ships?? I use RFB Mod and i see nothing more then a alittle DOT that repesents my ship or a small box for an enemy ship which turns into a Dot also wenn you zoom in, no plane markings (planes do not show at all) and no dept in water except 2 colours deep or shallow but no nuances there either. what MOD do i use to fix that?
sorry to go off topic here but i don't know how to copy the map picture.
starbird
12-13-08, 06:30 AM
Thank you for this thread.
I have just started out on my first Career of the game and am on my second mission to deploy to Honshu. The date is May 24th 1942, and about 900km from Midway on a bearing of 280 I started to encounter a steady stream of aircraft, all reported to me by radar contacts (I have a radar installed but can't switch it on, although the crew obviously have no problem doing so).
This was becoming so anoying I almost decided to unistall the whole game and put it in the bin. Constantly being draged out of time compression, having to crash dive, re surface and repeat, for over an hour to get almost no where, was becoming incredibly boring.
Fortunately I began to realise it might well be a bug, thats why I investigated it and found this post.
So I'll persevere and hopefully things will get better when I eventually get out of this area.
Thanks D
The SD (air search) radar isn't usable by the player in the sub. Only your crew can give reports of aircraft from it. The radar you see in the conning tower is the SJ (surface search) radar. Its always there even if its not really installed in your sub. SJ could pick up low flying planes, but I'm not sure if it works that way in the mods or stock. As mentioned in this thread, SD could only give you ranges, not directions. SJ gives you both.
There are mods that reduce the amount of air contacts. The amount of air is crazy in the stock game.
Rockin Robbins
12-13-08, 07:34 AM
Elanaiba, we determined a while ago that if there is a "scripted" group (not a random group) that contains a CV, the AIRGROUP associated with the CV exists from the date/time the mission loads (Campaign.cfg) even if the CV(s) are NOT on the map yet!
Ie: Midway mission set to load in January 1 in Campaign.cfg, but the force spawns June 1st. From Jan 1, there will be a CV airgroup sitting at the start point for the Nagumo force, even though no CVs are there until June.
Really.
tater
Gotta love the quality control in this sim..... :o :oops: :damn: :rotfl: :rotfl:
How about showing a little more respect, please.
JCC You know, if moderators in some other nameless forum that starts with a "U" would react similarly, it would be a bit less of a zoo. Subsim is not perfect, but right there is a good reason to hang out here.:up:
Steeltrap: your responses are both equally good reasons why I hang out primarily at Subsim. This is just a fine group of people. We get a bit off-the-wall at times but we quickly resume our positions on the floor.
Sailor Steve
12-13-08, 03:28 PM
On the other hand, Steeltrap's and JC's comments were posted a year ago...:sunny:
Thank's for your help, especially with the radar.
Is there a button on the UI anywhere to turn of the air search radar, to stop from being pulled out of time compression, when near friendly bases?
Also I have to agree about the quality of the posters to this forum. I have read many threads here to try and learn how to play this game, and found the people posting on them to be extreamly helpfull, knowledgable, and polite.
You have a great commuinty here, and Im glad to be a new member off it.
Rockin Robbins
12-15-08, 08:10 AM
On the other hand, Steeltrap's and JC's comments were posted a year ago...:sunny:
Good point. That makes my previous post even more valid. AND all the people involved are still here, contributing to the forum. Is there a better example of why we are all here?
Dazkaz: turn off the radar with the R key (could be modified with some mods) or with your button bar. You can also go to the radar station and throw the switch on the console.
I'm obviously still a bit confused about the radars, sorry.
The date is 10th Feb 1942. I have an SD Radar (Air search Radar) fitted in my boat that I spent renown on to purchase, before my first mission.
The crew give me updates on the air contacts but I have no image on the scope, and the on off switch does nothing when clicked.
I am assuming the air radar (SD) is the red scope to the right of the green one as moddled in the interior of the boat, when at the A-Scope radar station.
The Range Selector switch and the Sweep/Focus knobs work, as in they move when clicked, but obviously have no function as the set is switched off, and there is no image as the on/off switch does nothing. I am on the surface by the way.
The game is patched to 1.4 with no addons.
Im confused now as to whether I have the, it's to early to have the radar bug, but its still fitted, and the crew think its fitted as well (they give me updates to air contacts) or am I missing something obvious?
CapnScurvy
12-15-08, 10:00 AM
Sorry dazkaz for stepping into this thread about heavy flyovers (I just can't help myself), I'll let Double R give you a run down on your Radar questions.
I've noticed that when enemy aircraft are found far from enemy controlled land bases, that the answer is either air scouts from enemy CA's or CL's or actual patrol aircraft from CV's. Taking particular notice of the direction the aircraft are heading (before they spot your boat), you will have a good idea of where the source of the aircraft are either coming from or heading to. It's a 50/50% chance that in one direction or the other the source can be found.
I was playing an unmodded, early war, carrer campaign mission and had been assailed by enemy flyovers. Ducking to periscope depth each time my watch team anounced another sighting. I noticed there seemed to be a pattern to the flyovers east to west so I turned west. In a while my sonar man began to pick up warship screws, long range, so I cheated and took to the Free Camera mode to see what was out there.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/SH4Img2008-09-18_132429_171.jpg
The task force held 5 carrier's! (Ok, I admit the picture was taken after I sunk one of the aircraft carrier's and was starting to get the attention of several of the escorts). Anyway, don't take lightly the aircraft direction of travel. There's a reason why the aircraft are where they are, just hunt them down like the game name implies. The developers do have their outstanding gameplay show through at times. In my opinion, the aircraft don't just appear from thin air. There was no previous radio report of this particular task force. There was one report of an enemy task force heading in a different direction and 100's of miles away, but nothing was known of the particular task force that I came across. It just appeared after some time following one of the two directions the planes had been flying.
The only map information for the carrier task force appeared after my sonar man gave me the bearings of his discovery. The map showed nothing until his sonar pick up. When it did show on the map it simply read "task force, medium speed, east north east (ENE)". The largest clue I had regarding the carrier's were from the large amount of flyovers of aircraft in a remote section of ocean. Again, the aircraft's direction of travel gave me a clue to the basic area to look for the source. I could have picked "turn right, instead of left"; I just happened to choose correctly.
I now return the programming to the latest questions (now in progress). Take it away RR!!
==================
Revised later this date:
dazkaz, I'll take a run at your specific question. I don't believe you have Air Search capabilities at the early date of the war (Feb. 1942) that you are in. The game tries to follow the progression of improvements to equipement as in real life. The specific boat your assigned to will also determine whether you get certain upgrades as well, and when. If you played SHIII you may remember the Radar screen was actually sheet metaled over untill you actually had it. SH4 does not offer this image soooooo, it may look like the radar will work but it won't untill the proper date is passed.
If your getting crew updates for aircraft, their probably coming from your watch crew on deck. OR if your submerged at periscope depth it's one of your officers spoting the aircraft for you through either the raised attack periscope or the raised observation scope. Lower the scope, and the aircraft spotting will end.
John Channing
12-15-08, 06:14 PM
On the other hand, Steeltrap's and JC's comments were posted a year ago...:sunny:
Good point. That makes my previous post even more valid. AND all the people involved are still here, contributing to the forum. Is there a better example of why we are all here?
Dazkaz: turn off the radar with the R key (could be modified with some mods) or with your button bar. You can also go to the radar station and throw the switch on the console.
Actually I have been off my meds for about 11 months now, so who knows how I would respond today!
:D
JCC
The mod I made to fix this effectively removes aircraft from CVs. CAs, too, for that matter. The reality is that early in the war (really, all the way until late n the war) the IJN doctrine was not to fly substantial Combat Air patrols or even ASW air patrols. This differs greatly from USN practice where CAP and ASW were virtually always flown.
The IJN suffered from poor radios, and also from a doctrine of strict radio silence. As a result, CAPs were less effective anyway, and were typically flown only in areas where they expected action—action with enemy surface forces, not subs.
Regardless, the stock game flies such patrols out to the bleeding edge limit of a radius for the plane type, so you'll see zeros flying ASW patrol (LOL) hundreds of miles from the CV the came from.
Better are vastly reduced airgroups, and planes set to reduces ranges so that they are only found within visual range of the CVs.
Course I could get into IJN CV steaming formation doctrine, and how the game disallows the proper spacing (at Midway, the 4 CVs were between 7 and 8 KILOMETERS apart at all times. This was their doctrine, and SOP).
The mod I made to fix this effectively removes aircraft from CVs. CAs, too, for that matter. The reality is that early in the war (really, all the way until late n the war) the IJN doctrine was not to fly substantial Combat Air patrols or even ASW air patrols. This differs greatly from USN practice where CAP and ASW were virtually always flown.
The IJN suffered from poor radios, and also from a doctrine of strict radio silence. As a result, CAPs were less effective anyway, and were typically flown only in areas where they expected action—action with enemy surface forces, not subs.
Regardless, the stock game flies such patrols out to the bleeding edge limit of a radius for the plane type, so you'll see zeros flying ASW patrol (LOL) hundreds of miles from the CV the came from.
Better are vastly reduced airgroups, and planes set to reduces ranges so that they are only found within visual range of the CVs.
Course I could get into IJN CV steaming formation doctrine, and how the game disallows the proper spacing (at Midway, the 4 CVs were between 7 and 8 KILOMETERS apart at all times. This was their doctrine, and SOP).
Good info tater! :up:
I thought I had the mod that showed the locations of additional air bases. But I guess not. Can anyone direct me to that mod?
Nobody has an idea for finding the additional air base locations mod? Anyone? Class? Anyone?
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