The future and WWII sub sims...what would you like to see?

[Mast]

Just finished watching "Das Boot" again (can't count how many times I've watched it) but it got me thinking. Things I would like to see in the next WWII sub simulations.

It would be great to be able to walk from bow to stern. Be able to walk in the engine room and hear/see those engines. See "the ghost" checking the engines. Urfisch's Open hatch mods is a great start. See everybody at their stations like in "Das Boot" (more men than what you see in SHIII). When "alarm!!" and crash dive is shouted...see the crew running past you heading to the bow torpedo room. Like a first person shooter...walk/run through the boot and see part of your crew sleeping in their bunks. When being depth charged...the ability to grab hold of something cause if you don't, you get tossed around.

Improve the ability to skin...ie, fix that damn texture repeat problem, so you can correctly skin both sides of the conning tower. Also fix the emblems so that some of them face the correct way on both sides of the conning tower.

More U-Boot types to choose from, mine layer version comes to mind. What would you like to see in the future?

I'm sure this has been brought up before, so sorry for that but wanted to hear some of your thoughts.

Mast

[Sailor Steve]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit, with the canopy being a 360-degree raparound that lets me turn my head to look at things.

A subsim? Since we're not likely to get a complete actual interior we can walk around in and have other people there as well, maybe a better interior with more crew, and ever more realistic as well. I only hope for better graphics and ever-better gameplay.

[stew278]

I think being able to command one of the escort destroyers would be interesting. Trying to hunt down and sink a uboat would be a challenge. Obviously this would be less interesting from a career point of view than a uboat career since most of your time would be spent plodding along with the merchants, but for single battles it would be fun.

I also think the command interface could be improved so that all actions/orders have a corresponding hotkey. That way I could create a VAC profile and use voice commands to give orders to the crew for all commands. For example, having to click on icons to have the watch officer give to a target report is a hassle. Issuing voice commands to do the same would be more immersive as well. Flight sims have a bazillion hotkeys programmed to cover every possible command, why couldn't a subsim do so as well?

[Mast]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit,

Sailor Steve,

Have you tried IL-2 Sturmovik? Latest version is 1946. To me the cockpit modeling in this great flight sim is awesome. When you sit in the cockpit of any WWII aircraft, it is like the actual cockpit. No other game comes close. :up:

Mast

[S Rafty]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit, with the canopy being a 360-degree raparound that lets me turn my head to look at things.

A subsim? Since we're not likely to get a complete actual interior we can walk around in and have other people there as well, maybe a better interior with more crew, and ever more realistic as well. I only hope for better graphics and ever-better gameplay.

Lol Ive dont that at RAF Valleys flight trainer for the T1 Hawk. Ah to be an air cadet back in the day lol!

[S Rafty]

I think being able to command one of the escort destroyers would be interesting. Trying to hunt down and sink a uboat would be a challenge. Obviously this would be less interesting from a career point of view than a uboat career since most of your time would be spent plodding along with the merchants, but for single battles it would be fun.

I also think the command interface could be improved so that all actions/orders have a corresponding hotkey. That way I could create a VAC profile and use voice commands to give orders to the crew for all commands. For example, having to click on icons to have the watch officer give to a target report is a hassle. Issuing voice commands to do the same would be more immersive as well. Flight sims have a bazillion hotkeys programmed to cover every possible command, why couldn't a subsim do so as well?

Cos most people probably can't be arsed to read up every single hot key lol. :rotfl:

[Sailor Steve]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit,

Sailor Steve,

Have you tried IL-2 Sturmovik? Latest version is 1946. To me the cockpit modeling in this great flight sim is awesome. When you sit in the cockpit of any WWII aircraft, it is like the actual cockpit. No other game comes close. :up:

Mast
Good points, but I meant one with a frame surrounding me, and a canopy over my head, and the graphics projected onto the canopy.

[TarJak]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit,
Sailor Steve,

Have you tried IL-2 Sturmovik? Latest version is 1946. To me the cockpit modeling in this great flight sim is awesome. When you sit in the cockpit of any WWII aircraft, it is like the actual cockpit. No other game comes close. :up:

Mast Good points, but I meant one with a frame surrounding me, and a canopy over my head, and the graphics projected onto the canopy.

Why not just get some VR goggles and headse so that your head movements act like the POV hat. It can be done now... http://www.digit-life.com/articles/vfx3d/index.html

[Fenris_Wolf]

I would like a MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online) game based on WWII with two factions (Axis and Allies) and with accurate simulation of the war and it's machinery. Let the video game players/simulation junkies duke it out all over again.

We could turn Flotillas into "guilds" (like the ones in existing MMOs like World of Warcraft, etc.). Man your boats with players (or AI characters), get upgrades and promotions for the reknown (or experience) and have fun. :rock:

Although I'm sure the devs, always having favoritisms, will imbalance and ruin it (like the class imbalance in WoW). :D

[GoldenRivet]

for sailor steve... http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1150751413

imagine what you could do with that and a projector? :up:

be sure to check out all of the pages of that post... the guy is putting together a serious simulator cockpit!

but BACK ON TOPIC i would like to see all the compartments and crew modeled.

[kurtz]

How about english,french,italian and russian subs (apogies if I've left anybody out-americans have got theirs anyway with SHIV.
A multiplayer mode where participants could be different crew members...need a boat you can walk through though.
Captaining a destroyer would be fun.
How about boarding actions?

[Incubus]

This has been requested in SHIV, but honestly I really want to skipper a Japanese I-boat. While their record in the war wasn't exactly stellar, they (and to a lesser extent, the Kriegsmarine) had an interesting record of trying out ideas that seemed neat on paper but didn't pan out in real life. It would be cool if they created a 'compilation' game, taking great elements from the SH series and making them into a game where you could run missions from all the major powers in WWII.

-US and KM have been covered fairly well.

-UK had subs, though I don't know if their fleets had as much noteriety as other nations. Pretty sure the british navy took a dim view to the idea of submarines; then again they had less need for commerce raiders outside the Mediterranean

-IJN's subs were intented to target warships- they used them in forward screens in several naval battles. They have a small yet impressive list of accomplishments, such as sinking a US CV in Midway and the sinking of the Indianapolis.

I think IJN missions would actually be pretty cool- there are plenty of people that spend lots and lots of time making this game harder w/mods. I think the IJN's sub fleet had the most uphill battle, particularly in 1945 when naval supremacy was all but a fleeting memory. Kaiten, subs carrying nuclear secrets, and even subs that could launch torpedo bombers would be a fun thing to play around with.

[Shelton]

i'd like to see more men on the actual destoyers and merchant vessels actually responding to a hit or taking to battle stations or jumping off a doomed merchant and taking to life rafts - now that would be hugely immersive.

Cheers
Shelton.

[Chock]

Okay, here's a list of stuff I'd like to see:

First-person perspective where you actually walk up the gangplank and get in the sub, also allowing interaction on the land for things like briefings, training and giving awards etc. Walking about in your sub.

More systems modelled so that you actually get realistic ballast and trim problems that you have to figure out solutions to.

Interior graphics that drip water and get messy as time goes on, balancing how much this bother you and whether you choose to order more cleanliness affecting morale would be good.

Interactive crew, with the ability to get them to learn new tactics so they can drive the sub for you on your preferred attack course etc. Especially an XO with more interactive capability, such as tactical suggestions, recommendations for awards from chiefs of various shifts etc.

Crew members that don't fit in (the virtual Bernard if you like).

Crew members actually saying things, I seriously doubt that a gunner who has just shot down a Jap flying boat would not yell 'Take that you Jap b*st*rd!', and you could be damn sure the crew would cheer.

Political concerns, Nazi party members on your U-Boat, Jewish crew members etc etc. Arguments between crew members when they get frustrated by your crappy performance and the ability to decide their punishment (if any), even just a few numbered options would be a start! This is what commanding a submarine is about, not drawing a course line, that's the friggin navigators job!

Risking allowing your crew to sunbathe on deck. fishing off the deck.

The Focke Achgelis Fa 330!

Tidal currents, fish, whales, dolphins, seabirds on the water, oil slicks you can follow on the surface, food dumped on the water by careless convoys so you have to work out tidal flows, or at least ask the navigator to do it!

The light affecting tactics more than it currently does!

A link to real world weather via a download, to make seasonal stuff possible (flight sims have this capability, and have had it for at least 5 years in the mainstream).

The need to service the submarine and maintain its machinery, even via delegation would do, so that you could be caught with your torpedoes not 'ready to rock'. Real WW2 torpedoes did not sit in their tubes for three weeks while you drove about looking for targets! Trim dives, finite food storage. The ability for your crew to innovate and improvise stuff.

Confiscating supplies off merchants you stop, picking up food that floats off sinking ships, taking prisoners on board, interrogating them, giving them supplies and and directions to the nearest landfall.

Crew morale based on all these elements (I know this is sort of in there, but it's pretty basic). Your crew would not think you were great if you machine gunned a lifeboat, then again, maybe they would if you'd picked a bunch of Nazis for your crew or whatever.

Damp conditions and poor weather affecting morale, the cook affecting morale, whether you allow booze on board, or smoking.

Progressive rust and damage to your exterior sub model the longer it stays at sea.

Victory pennants on your conning tower.

One problem why we might not see these however, is that many game/sim companies do not 'lead from the front', instead, assuming that sub sims are a limited market. However, with more foresight, if they made the most ass-kicking, envelope-pushing and innovative sub sim ever, I suspect not just sub sim fans would want to play it. The most succesful companies tend to take this approach, an example being Boeing, which gambled when it built some of its most successful products, including the Flying Fortress and the Boeing 747 Jumbo.

If you build it, they will come, is something computer sim companies should bear in mind.

:D Chock

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

Okay, here's a list of stuff I'd like to see:

First-person perspective where you actually walk up the gangplank and get in the sub, also allowing interaction on the land for things like briefings, training and giving awards etc. Walking about in your sub.

More systems modelled so that you actually get realistic ballast and trim problems that you have to figure out solutions to.

Interior graphics that drip water and get messy as time goes on, balancing how much this bother you and whether you choose to order more cleanliness affecting morale would be good.

Interactive crew, with the ability to get them to learn new tactics so they can drive the sub for you on your preferred attack course etc. Especially an XO with more interactive capability, such as tactical suggestions, recommendations for awards from chiefs of various shifts etc.

Crew members that don't fit in (the virtual Bernard if you like).

Crew members actually saying things, I seriously doubt that a gunner who has just shot down a Jap flying boat would not yell 'Take that you Jap b*st*rd!', and you could be damn sure the crew would cheer.

Political concerns, Nazi party members on your U-Boat, Jewish crew members etc etc. Arguments between crew members when they get frustrated by your crappy performance and the ability to decide their punishment (if any), even just a few numbered options would be a start! This is what commanding a submarine is about, not drawing a course line, that's the friggin navigators job!

Risking allowing your crew to sunbathe on deck. fishing off the deck.

The Focke Achgelis Fa 330!

Tidal currents, fish, whales, dolphins, seabirds on the water, oil slicks you can follow on the surface, food dumped on the water by careless convoys so you have to work out tidal flows, or at least ask the navigator to do it!

The light affecting tactics more than it currently does!

A link to real world weather via a download, to make seasonal stuff possible (flight sims have this capability, and have had it for at least 5 years in the mainstream).

The need to service the submarine and maintain its machinery, even via delegation would do, so that you could be caught with your torpedoes not 'ready to rock'. Real WW2 torpedoes did not sit in their tubes for three weeks while you drove about looking for targets! Trim dives, finite food storage. The ability for your crew to innovate and improvise stuff.

Confiscating supplies off merchants you stop, picking up food that floats off sinking ships, taking prisoners on board, interrogating them, giving them supplies and and directions to the nearest landfall.

Crew morale based on all these elements (I know this is sort of in there, but it's pretty basic). Your crew would not think you were great if you machine gunned a lifeboat, then again, maybe they would if you'd picked a bunch of Nazis for your crew or whatever.

Damp conditions and poor weather affecting morale, the cook affecting morale, whether you allow booze on board, or smoking.

Progressive rust and damage to your exterior sub model the longer it stays at sea.

Victory pennants on your conning tower.

One problem why we might not see these however, is that many game/sim companies do not 'lead from the front', instead, assuming that sub sims are a limited market. However, with more foresight, if they made the most ass-kicking, envelope-pushing and innovative sub sim ever, I suspect not just sub sim fans would want to play it. The most succesful companies tend to take this approach, an example being Boeing, which gambled when it built some of its most successful products, including the Flying Fortress and the Boeing 747 Jumbo.

If you build it, they will come, is something computer sim companies should bear in mind.

:D Chock

sounds like another Role-Playing Game for BioWare. they hit one out of the park with Knights of the Old Republic

[Jimbuna]

I'd settle for online MP where you get to choose either sub or escort :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

Why not just get some VR goggles and headse so that your head movements act like the POV hat. It can be done now... http://www.digit-life.com/articles/vfx3d/index.html
YEAH! That's what I want! I want one of those! Perfect for the next generation of flight sims! And I want new sub sims that use that! Heck, I might even start to like shooters if I could use something like that.

for sailor steve... http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/ya...num=1150751413 (http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1150751413)

imagine what you could do with that and a projector? :up:
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of, if the projection canopy was perfect (:rotfl: ).

I'd settle for online MP where you get to choose either sub or escort :arrgh!:
Get SHII and Destroyer Command, download the Messerwetzer mods, go to Sub Club and have fun playing either sub or escort.

[robj250]

Didn't Hitler order that the U-boats were not ALLOWED to take prisoners but were to shoot and kill all they see.

[Iron Budokan]

More immersive qualities overall on shore and at sea, more realism for controlling functions of the boat itself, higher level of realistic interaction with crew and BDU.

[Heibges]

1. Improved Engine/Fuel Management. Make it a little challenging to keep your boat at sea for 2 months.

2. Contacts the spawn into the game in relationship to the player, and reward folks who can keep their boat at sea a long time. This would get rid of the advantage of using the hydrophones in an unrealistic manner.

[GoldenRivet]

Ok... i have posted my wishlist for the next WW2 U-Boat sim before, but i'll shorten it: Some of the items are a bit demanding, others are quite simple, all of them are detail oriented... the details make or break games!

1. The ability to have the crew man harbour stations upon entering and exiting the port. this would be an all non-essential hands on deck, it would be very very nice to see a crowded top deck and conning tower with my sailors waving their hands and hats at the lovely ladies on the dock when we were leaving port and coming back.

2. Manning of stations in shifts similar to SH4 instead of micro managing like SH3.

3. 3D model of every interior compartment of the U-boat from the stern tube to the bow tubes... even the head! Each compartment should contain animated crew in the process of eating, sleeping, maintining equipment, going about their duties, or repairing battle damage.

4. When the crew is loading external stores show the men on deck going through the paces of actually doing the work, rigging up the equipment, etc.

5. Use of enigma machines for decoding of certain messages or all messages depending on realism settings in the game.

6. Survivors manning and lowering life boats... not just appearing like in SH4. aside from survivors in life boats add men walking on the decks, getting killed and even jumping overboard while lit on fire!

7. special missions - not like inserting agents or rescuing downed pilots... more like realistic to U-boats like sneaking in and laying mines in and around an enemy port.

8. AI U-boats out on patrol in the sea with you... might be 10 miles away... might be 500 miles away, but they are there and you might stumble across one some day. (note: they have to be able to fire torpedoes and submerge/ effectively engage the enemy etc)

9. more game play while in port. 3D 1st person environment? walk around in the sub pens... see port personnel repairing your boat, fitting it with new equipment, go to the bar and have small talk with other captains who offer tips on tactics and hunting grounds etc (half life 2 like or heavily scripted like GUN or gran theft auto - nothing too deep just some bit of immersion) ... the player should feel as if they are really leaving an aspect of the game behind when they leave port to go out on patrol, and they should "miss" an aspect of the game while patrolling.

10. Radio with stations just like in SH4 - BUT the major difference being that you can direction find these stations to assist in the manual navigation options to triangulate your position.

11. this one kinda goes with the interior modeling of the compartments. why not add crew sliding down the ladders during an alarm dive? or ad crew moving from compartment to compartment during the shift changes? not just appearing where they are supposed to be. the player has 30 to 50 men on the boat... he should be made to feel like it... not the 7 ot 8 we are used to seeing.

like i said - the above has been posted before, but just my two cents worth.

[danurve]

How about this guys; the ability to add an e-mail to a carrer - check it.

The game could use the e-mail to send contact and status reports to a server; which could then respond to the game with some auto check and that way the game could read the text and send you an in-game message.

[Lible]

Realistic Snorkels
..and roleplay in the future.

[XLjedi]

My number one wishlist item would be to allow multi-windowed gameplay. So you can throw different stations/views on different monitors; similar to the way you can do things with MS Flight Simulator. Wouldn't it be nice in SHIV to have the scope on one monitor and see the attack map on another and watch how TDC adjustments are affecting the solution?

Would also be cool to allow others to play various stations with you. Maybe allow 3 or 4 to man a sub, one on hydrophones, another as the tracking party, maybe an XO responsible for firing solutions, etc.

[Stryck_9]

A tunable Radio might be nice ( Listen to German stations ,french stations...the BBC or whatever).
Viable working Wolfpacks
Victory Penants on return to harbour
We have rain but also to have snow in the winter would be nice.
Thats it for now :)

[danurve]

Control of the Plains would be nice.

We have 'set plains to normal dive' why can't we have 'set plains to normal rise' at least.
Yeah that's right Im looking for ways to help deal with the goofy flooding and damage control system we are stuck with. Flooding recovery time my @ss.

[gimpy117]

I've long dreamed of a flight sim which puts me in an actual replica cockpit, with the canopy being a 360-degree raparound that lets me turn my head to look at things.


yeah microsoft put that in in fs 2002...

[minute]

Better modelling of the Uboat would be nice - especially more precision in maps and instruments, plotting course, torpedo solution, etc.

Better response from merchants and convoys - i.e. avoidance strategies from merchants, etc.

I really liked the idea of making this a massive multiplayer game - be a Uboat or destroyer commander and actually have to deal with other humans when you meet a convoy... Wolfpacks anyone? Combined ASW operations?

A connection with all the data on uboat.net - getting historical Uboat names and patrol dates, including sunken ship sailings, etc.

[gimpy117]

i would like to see a game that allows you to play as all the nations with subs in WWII...

and, make all areas in the sub viewable, with 3d damage, so you know when your actually hit and when your not...

[Raptor_341]

>> What i would like to see is a boat that you can walk around. See the crew, interact a bit. See the whole boat. Full 3D damage on all ships and submarines. AI submarines of all nations ( with torps ). Special missions, fleet operations when historial. Britsh, German, American, Russian, French ( short game, lol), Japanese, all major submarine users of WW2. And different types, minelayers, milk cows, midget submarines.

GWX

[Jimbuna]

>> What i would like to see is a boat that you can walk around. See the crew, interact a bit. See the whole boat. Full 3D damage on all ships and submarines. AI submarines of all nations ( with torps ). Special missions, fleet operations when historial. Britsh, German, American, Russian, French ( short game, lol), Japanese, all major submarine users of WW2. And different types, minelayers, milk cows, midget submarines.

GWX

Me too :sunny:

[KrvKpt. Falke]

There are many things that should be in future subsims, but one i want most: ability to create your own character. Imagine your own face in game:)
http://www.facegen.com/ - have you heard about this software?

[JScones]

What would I like to see?

Less certainty and more randomisation. That is, settings that change automatically as the war progresses to reflect, relatively, the circumstances as they were at that particular time.

The current "one size fits all" data structure of SH3 (and to a slightly lesser degree SH4) doesn't lend itself to a campaign that lasts near 7 years - things change.

I'd also like to see more "personality" added to the Commander. Currently, you type your name in a box and then you're in a sub on your way ("Hey! I'm a Leutnant!"). You finish a patrol, get some renown or whatever, then you're on your way again.

When you're in the water, there's a great sense of immersion, but when you're in base, there's pretty much none. No accountability, no responsibility, no interaction, just a 2D screen. There's no reflection of one's performance.

AOD had the Nightclub. A simple yet very effective way of keeping you "involved" while you were in base. A similar concept brought up-to-date would make a big difference to any subsim.

[hobnailboot]

Wolfpacks are a must, The Italians were active in the atlantic, so some of their subs would be nice. It would be great to give the SH4 simmers the willies by turning up in a type IXD2:arrgh!:

[Huskalar]

I think it would be nice when player's achievements could influence the war or even better, change the outcome of it. I know this could be considered a step back when it comes to realism, but I just think a war game/sim is even more challenging when you don't know the outcome of the war you're fighting in. :yep:

EDIT: On the other hand when it comes to realism, the real Kaleuns in WW2 also didn't know the outcome of the war, so it also could be considered as a step forward.

[Jimbuna]

Wolfpacks are a must, The Italians were active in the atlantic, so some of their subs would be nice. It would be great to give the SH4 simmers the willies by turning up in a type IXD2:arrgh!:

This one would probably be my favourite: The Italian 600-Serie Adua-class submarine :up:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/407/adua3lg5yf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4374/adua6vr2dl2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Mike@UK]

Being able to walk around inside your submarine with all buttons and dials etc useable and being able to see through the Periscope in the 3D interior view rather than in a seperate screen, so there's never any need to leave the 3D interior.

And British Subs would be nice. :arrgh!:

[Sailor Steve]

AOD had the Nightclub. A simple yet very effective way of keeping you "involved" while you were in base. A similar concept brought up-to-date would make a big difference to any subsim.
Have you tried the...oh. Never mind.:rotfl:

I agree about the accountability part. Red Baron had you put on trial if you accidentally hit a friendly aircraft. It would be nice to have to stay on your toes all the time.

[Ping Panther]

These are good suggestions.

All I could imagine is a Real-Time PAUSE (let the real world stand still for the moment), so that you could sub-sim. more often! :p

[von hally]

agree with most things said, but wolf packs or at least the illusion that there are other u boats in that ocean with you. i know we recieve constant updates from other u boats but this is sometimes not enough, also radio updates of important events through out the war without using a mod (grammophone) to do this would be ace

[LoneTraveller]

I think it would be nice when player's achievements could influence the war or even better, change the outcome of it.
I would love something like that. Here is my list :

- A fully dynamic campaign. Not like SH3 which is on chronological rails.

- A fully dynamic campaign for multiplayer gaming in which you could occupy posts from both sides (Ex: Some of your friends in u-boats while others in the escorts and others in the bombers overhead).

- There was ONLY 1 HMS Hood...please make sure that we can't sink 3 or them in the same campaign.

- Actually take part in a WolfPack attack.

- A management side of the game. Be Donitz and decide where in general your U-boats patrol, how long does the training of U-boats take (less time would mean less efficient at sinking tonnage), budget technology production management (after 43 when they lost the battle...do you keep sending men to die or put all your eggs in 1 basket by lauching the XXI earlier), inter service rivalry (cut a deal with Goering for more fighter protection over the bay of Biscay late in the war), if sufficient technology is available then design your OWN u-boat type (that you could try out in a patrol afterwards), etc.

- Side Quests : Mine laying, spy/saboteur insertions, intelligence gathering missions (map out the enemy ports for ground defenses, minefields, subnets, etc), capture enemy pilots/sailors for interrogation at Gestapo headquarter when you get back to port (then on your next mission you would get a fixed position on a sweet enemy ship/convoy to sink), raid enemy shipyards that are producing ships (reducing the amount of escorts in an area for a time), etc.

- More landMarks (I live in Montreal Canada so when I go up the St-Lawrence river and get to MTL I would find it funny to see the Molson brewery then shooting their cargo ships causing morale damage to all Canadian troops for 6 months). I would also be curious to go up the Thames and have a look at London before the war starts :D





Here are some examples of what a dynamic campaign would contain :

- During the Norvegian campaign lets say that you find an enemy convoy going in to take the port from the Norvegians with troopships. Then sinking them would make that port fall faster to the Germans.
- During Dunkerque lets says that you get lucky and sink all the enemy ships at port. Then the Allies being unable to rescue all their soldiers in time may bargain with Germany.
- Lets say that you attack a convoy which its destination is an island base and that you sink all their tankers. Than that base wouldn't launch aircrafts or maritime patrols until the next one arrived (Plus or minus the time it would take to get the fuel from the port to the plane/ship themselves...You get idea ;)).

[OneToughHerring]

A lot of things have already been mentioned so I'll just point out the obvious ones. I'm sure that graphics etc. will be better in the next one, and it being a sub - game I hope that the sea would be even more realistic with little details and nicer waves/storms/weather/etc. Also as has been mentioned it would be nice to have dynamic campaigns with events that would change and make the games always different. And why not MMO - type things.

Might be easier to say what I would not want to see, that is the lowering of the standard that SH3 & 4 and their mods have set in terms of realism etc.

Oh and VR-helmets, I've tried one and didn't find it that great. Otherwise ok but the field of vision felt like watching a screen up close, not 'natural field of vision'. There may be better helmets out there.

[kgsuarez]

Alright, this is a little crazy, so bare with me. (btw, I haven't read the entire thread so something like this might have been mentioned already)

Okay, imagine years from now when PCs will have the power to run a game like this:

Start out with an extremely realistic physics model where the U-boats', ships' and planes' behavior will be determined by the actual 3D models of them and not by config files. I don't know if that makes sense to you all, but this already exists to some extent in a flight sim called X-Plane. Whereas most flight sims will refer to a config file to figure how a plane should act at a given altitude, airspeed, etc X-Plane uses an advanced simulation engine that figures all these things out in real time according to the given weather conditions and stuff. X-Plane comes with an aircraft builder in which you create a 3D model of an aircraft and input a little bit of info (IE: engine power, weight, etc) and the simulator will compute how this aircraft will behave.

Okay, are you with me so far? (I don't think I did a good job of explaining that first part.:-?)

Okay, now. Let's have the most realistic 3D models of our U-boats. You will be able to navigate the entire boat and every little thing will be functional. You will be able to, say, spin some wheels in the control room to pump 500 liters of water forward and the boat will react realistically (remember our physics simulator?). Now, of course the AI crew would take care of these sort of things for you usually, but you would be able to manipulate the various instruments and controls on board yourself if you pleased.

This kind of sim will probably be possible a few years from now. Basically what I'm talking about is software that simulates real-life things very realistically.

Now, as far as sensors go... we will incorporate the same technology to create a true simulation of the way sound travels underwater and the way our AI crew will be able to spot objects in the 3D environment.

Okay, now for a really cool and realistic crew... because it would be too creepy to play a game where this awesomely detailed U-boat (with fully functioning systems) lacked a crew. Most importantly, over the course of a patrol they will grow facial hair and look increasingly disheveled and dirty.:p You would be able to go into the bow compartment and see crewmen sleeping, eating, playing games, etc.. You will see them on duty. You will even get to see them look genuinely scared when being pursued by enemy ASW forces. Maybe, every once in a while, we can have a crew member loose his nerves and come stuttering over into the control room blabbering about defeat, begging that we surface the boat, etc..

Man, I'm having fun with this one... :lol: Are you guys still with me?

Okay, also really cool would be this. It would have a large RPG type element to it. Where you design your own Kaleun (like in The Sims or whatever). And you can pick his name, and choose from various personality traits and skill sets that will have an effect on how the AI crew will respond to you. (IE: good torpedo shot, charismatic, intuitive, mechanically inclined, etc..) Maybe over time the stress of combat will take it's toll on your character, detracting from some of his skills or whatever.

Between patrols you could go to the bar and celebrate, and get into drunken fights with others, and pour beers on people, etc.

Holy crap... I'm getting a little carried away aren't I? :doh:

Ahem, how about a WWI subsim instead?

[Chisum]

Not read the other messages yet.
Just my personnal thoughts.

Just finished watching "Das Boot" again (can't count how many times I've watched it) but it got me thinking. Things I would like to see in the next WWII sub simulations.
It would be great to be able to walk from bow to stern. Be able to walk in the engine room and hear/see those engines. See "the ghost" checking the engines.
I agree !!
And also having mechanical problems(if possible, problems that must be repaired by ourself because it is very usual on a ship, I can tell you !).

I'm sure this has been brought up before, so sorry for that but wanted to hear some of your thoughts.
Mast
For the rest, I would like to see my boat remains wet and soggy as true(google translation...).
I mean that when a wave recovered the ship she stays "brilliant" for a moment due the water.
She don't stay dry all the time.

I would also like to be able to close the door of the kiosk manually when we plunge.

It should also be able to see the water in the boat and see this water rise more and more when we are in a critical situation.
More smoke(on the water yeah :rock:).

Flammes too.

It should also depth periscope be adjusted to its true value because it was 18m and not 13m.

Possibility to drop anchor.

Manual key to send messages in morse(forced us to learn morse).

Ability to manually command depth rudders("rear-5, front + 10").

Have a specialization "cook" because it is the key to good mental condition of the crew.
This is a detail, but fun anyway.

That's all I thought for now.

:up:

PS: also be able to manage fuel as says some of you before. Also to be able to move masses of liquid front / rear when we must balance the boat quickly.

Last but not least: allieds playable !!

[Schöneboom]

Very nice wish lists so far. To reiterate what others have said: YES to Wolfpacks (i.e. AI subs when you're playing single-mode). For extra coolness: if you spot the convoy first, you make the call, & they respond. Party on!

In addition:

-- AI subs that have a clue: They know when to dive, how to attack & how to evade. In other words, comparable to the best flight-sim AI.

-- Physics everywhere, instead of "artificial gravity" that glues everyone to the deck. When the boat pitches & rolls, the men react to keep their balance. When it's really rough, they grab onto things. And once in a while, MAN OVERBOARD! :D

-- More accurate geography & city skylines. It's a tall order, but the way things are progressing, why not? Imagine going to Venice and seeing the architecture as you sail the Grand Canal. Gondolas capsize in your wake! :arrgh!:

-- Losing your boat in various ways: You get to see it all...
You could abandon ship: some guys make it out, some don't. Some get shot dead anyway.
Or noone gets out 'cause you're at crush depth & up to your eyeballs in water, buh-bye...
Or you're stuck, can't go home, don't want the enemy to get your boat, so you scuttle her.
Or you get sunk at your home base, most of your men survive, and the boat is raised and rebuilt. You could either get a new boat, or your old boat, months later.

Ah, it's good to dream...

[Chisum]

Man overboard is a great idea !

Add on on my previous:

-a spotlight to find ennemis cargo early in the war
-a little spotlight to visual morse communication
-a map with geographic coordonates(degrees-minuts-seconds)
-possibility to launch mines

That's all.
:lurk:
For the next Christmas it will be very well.
:p
Lol.

;)

[Sailor Steve]

Man overboard is a great idea !

Add on on my previous:

-a spotlight to find ennemis cargo early in the war
So they can shoot at you better because you are all lit up.:rotfl:

-a little spotlight to visual morse communication
It's called a signal lamp, and I think it would be cool too. Even better in a surface ship game. You could either run it yourself or tell the signalman to send a message and watch the lamp blink. SH4 has this on surface ships now. You can't run them, but you can see them doing it.

I think all these ideas are good ones. Some of them I don't agree with, but it's still fun to dream.:sunny:

[Kraut]

First of all I would like all the features from Aces of The Deep modeled. Then we'll talk about new stuff.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Well my friend and I were thinking about creating a game. This will combine great graphics,multiplayer gaming, a long timeline and other such things that are in other games while keeping with historical realisum. The players will be allowed to pick what preiod of time they would like to live in(such as the middle ages), pick their job class. All players will start as civilians and can decide if they want to go in to the milatry if they want. The players will gain experiance from their training and jobs and this experiance will traslate to their armed forces career.Example: If the player was a hunter they would have good marksmanship, so they in a role in the armed forces would be qulified as a sniper but would have to go through basic training and then additional training for their job. You can also work for the government as a spy or assasin,ect or have a normal government role. It is all the players desion. As for historical people such as Al Capone, Hitler, FDR, prople like that you can not play as them. As for thing like sprits,drugs stuff like that, we have made the desion to allow sprits but no drugs!!!!! Now as for the detail of transportation all forms will have fully detailed interiors like passanger cars on a train, ships will have compartments, subs you can walk from front to back, walk on the deck, ect. This is still in the very early stages, but if anyone is interseted in helping us let me know but please send me a pm outlining what you can help us with.

[Dietrich]

sounds like another Role-Playing Game for BioWare.

Agreed!

I don't think an incremental upgrade to SH5 will work. Yes, you can introduce slightly better graphics, slightly more ships, etc. etc., but that will not capture the public imagination. It has to be something new.

From what I've read in this thread, the big thing that could be done, which would be new just for the SH-series, but for computer games in general, is creating an interactive crew on a single mission.

It sort of exists in other games, in that it is a world and people are in it doing things ("Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion", is an example). However, what we want to do here, is pack that AI-community into a confined space and make the machinery also part of that community.

It needs to be real-time, like any other FPS game, but because of the length of patrols, there needs to also be a option for time compression. Maybe you could go an sleep and tell your Lead Engineer to "wake me when X happens".

Hmm... lots of good ideas. This is certainly a fun thread to read. :yep:

[Chisum]

Man overboard is a great idea !

Add on on my previous:

-a spotlight to find ennemis cargo early in the war So they can shoot at you better because you are all lit up.:rotfl:

"Early in the war" when they have not deck guns !

It will be usefull for other reasons too.
I would be very surprised to learn that there was no spotlight on german submarines.

[Rg370]

I don't think an incremental upgrade to SH5 will work. Yes, you can introduce slightly better graphics, slightly more ships, etc. etc., but that will not capture the public imagination. It has to be something new.

This is the problem with the franchises. Silent hunter path was evolutionary, rather
than revolutionary. Best example is sh4.
Another problem is that the simulations aren't mainstream,
especially sub sims, and they aren't multi-platform (pc only, problems with piracy).
From the developer's point of view, they aren't profitable.
They would rather invest in some generic no-brain-but-with-shiny-graphics fps, than
some hardcore sim that few would buy.

[GoldenRivet]

the problem with that statement is that the leap from SH2 to SH3... WAS revolutionary.

not only was SH3 revolutionary to the series it was revolutionary to subsims as a whole.

[timmyab]

My main problem with the game is that unescorted merchants are too easy to sink.They should be changing course frequently and unpredictably.If you attack them on the surface they should run away from you at full steam.That would make deck gun attacks much more difficult and dangerous.If you do manage to sink one then the AI should reroute other merchants away from that area and the RN and RAF should increase patrols in that area.
I think there's plenty of scope for improvements all round but fundamentally SH3 is a great game.

[Sailor Steve]

Sometimes they run (for 10 hours)
At 04.48 hours on 25 Aug, 1942, the unescorted Abbekerk (Master C. Wijker) was hit on the starboard side by one of three torpedos from U-604 , which had been chasing the ship since more than 10 hours.
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2089.html

And sometimes they just roll over and give up.
At 19.17 hours on 1 Jul, 1940, the unescorted Adamastos was stopped by U-29 southwest of Ireland. The crew abandoned ship immediately when the U-boat surfaced nearby. The Germans then boarded the ship for fresh provisions and sank her by gunfire.
http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/402.html

Some variety would indeed be nice.

[finchOU]

First of all I would like all the features from Aces of The Deep modeled. Then we'll talk about new stuff.

This is what I've been hoping (praying...screaming). IMHO, this is what makes SH3 less than revolutionary. SH3 may be revolutionary for UBISOFT (read: SH2 to SH3)....but not the gerne of WW2 sub sims. This simply because SH3 failed to learned enough from past sims of the genre. STill a huge step forward though!!! So my list....

-Wolfpacks: not as hokie or warp speed like as AOD, but smart AI subs who can navigate to the scene....attack...evade...shadow...and return to base. Of course the Fog of war would preclude knowing exactly when or how many or how long it would take to gather a pack (especially on High realism) ...but random torpedo impacts in the convoy would clue you in that "others" are in the area.....this would tie up escorts to make approachs easier...and it would make evading escorts easier after your attack..since they dont want to waste time behind the convoy looking for you will while the merchants are being ravaged by other u boats.

-All compartments: watching work being done...loading of torps...maintanence...etc.

-Action Crew: people moving around when stuff happens...alarm...loading external/interal torps...sleeping crews.....as mentioned above.

-Breakdowns/Food shortage/moral boosters: Nothing ever is working perfecly on a ship...and something is always breaking or being fixed. Random and routine maintenance schedules should be modeled at higher realism settings.....you dont do maintenance on your Torps...and low and behold...they dont work. Also, if you run out of food...you're done. Engine and battery repair.....Periscope motor breaking.....I mean...it keeps you on your toes...

-Captains log: which you can put what ever you want in it....basic log of events on the patrol that the base would like to read .........after action reports...etc..

-Enigma with real messages pertaining to in sim situations: Beable to decode "Captains Eyes only" messages or all important messages for that matter.

-Real Radio Traffic: I think its cool that the Moders gave us some random messages...I just wish next time the Sim could have real messages...not just fluff.

-Realistic Navigation: wouldnt it be interesting to actually have to navigate? for real? Use the "map" that we have now as an estimated position...and make corrections to it.

-different missions: would be interesting....mines, spys, recon

-Something worth coming home to: like mentioned above....ports could be more interactive... at the very least penets and crew on deck.

-Less predictable AI....randomness at times...

[KeptinCranky]

Most important for me:

- world is an actual sphere... correct geopgraphy on it too.... should be doable, there are historic maps available... should be used :-?

- realistic weather....
Baiscally the Global weather follows predictable patterns, there are variations and such but 2 weeks of heavy rain and fog simply does not occur near the Azores in Juli...
There are fairly accurate weather models available all over the place and with the processing power in PCs these days it shouldn't be difficult to implement at all...

the completely unrealistic weather is one of my greatest pet peeves and fixing this must be hardcoded because modding something like that in seems nigh impossible...

[Mush Martin]

Definable currents in M.E. like wind
and obviosly currents in game.

multiple variable intensity thermoclines

Salinity

Revolutionary to the gaming industry Dev supported modding at release.
Including tools to get everyone intersted.

that'll do.

[Bronzewing]

Fairly surprised no one's mentioned this already, I think Tides would be nice. Sneak through a shallow passage on a high spring tide that's normally impassable, you know you have to make the attack fast and get out before you're trapped.

The ability to steer using the screws.

Crew medical problems. If your watch officer stays out in a north atlantic winter storm all night he could very well end up with pnumonia. And crabs are bad for crew morale of course ;)

Oh and special subs for some single missions, (e.g. X craft attacking Terpitz. The Japanese mini subs attempting to infiltrate Pearl Harbor, oh and maybe a chance to see what would have happened if the I400s HAD made their attack on the Panama canal.)

[G.K.]

IN Addition to all the things mentioned here...:)

1) Also Dutch subs - they did maybe even more than French ones... And were quite an interesting...

2) When you attack a merchant ( shot across his bow f. e. ) in 1939 or maybe 40, he would not just start zigzaging, but he could stop, lower his boats and you could scuttle it, or in 1/1000 of all you could take him as prize (esp. neutrals with contraband, also defined in the game ), as f. . Kretschmer once did ( although his ship was sunk by german aircraft before it got to port ). some of them could also try to ram you when surfaced.

3) More, More, More Merchants! Something like IABL'S Merchant Fleet Mod * 10?:D

[Redwine]

My wishes...

Total dinamic campaign, totally random.

Thermal layer modelled.

Batithermograph modelled, even in german sibs, it is knowed they do not have a batithermograph but have a water trap where they take water temperature and density to determine the depth of the thermal layer.

Real compartement and flooding for ships.

All submarine compartement modellated, with actual time job modellated as reload torps, reapairs. I want to see the flooding level inside all compartements.

Cinematic secuences for all job onboard, crash dive, repair, reloading internal, reloading external.

Real navigation via Stars and RDF.

Stadimeter modelled.

Real sonar/hydrophone capability modellated on enemy ships. (Sh III and SH IV have a compromise solution, but not related with the real sensors, we have a constant wide beam, not a narrow rotating)

All weapons modellated with their correct power and damage.

Capability to perform difrent tasks, take pictures, rescue pilots, deploy intruder teams.

Capability to operate separatelly engines to have rudder control by asymetical power.

Sea life...

Capability to abandom the ship, launch debris.

Ca[ability to stop a ship, let to abandom it, and deploy sclutter charges as happen in WWI and first times of WW II.

Normal run aground damage.

Most of this things was present on past subsims.

Lot of thing more, but with this may have the best subsim...

[Jimbuna]

It should all be ready for you to download and play by tomorrow :p ;)

[GoldenRivet]

there are a lot of "wants" from the community.

but the fact remains that if even 10% of the stuff from this thread was implemented into a subsim... it would be a spectacular subsim indeed.

[Wolfehunter]

What I would like to see? I would like to see if I can make an impact in the world if I excel or do extremely poorly in the adventure. So if all goes well then game should compensate for those that can influence the game world. Even change the outcome if possible on various possible conclusions.

Game company co-op with mod communtity.

A bug free game.

.... A game made for quality and not quantity.;)