SHIV viewing stats

[Von Tonner]

Found this interesting when looking at the number of viewers on the below forums on Subsim

SH4: 125 viewers
SH4 MODS: 72 viewers

SH3: 228 viewers
SH3 MODS: 212 viewers

GENERAL TOPIC: 152 viewers


I don't think I have ever seen SH4 displace SH3 as far as viewers go, but was very surprised to see even General Topics outdo SH4. I really thought SH4 would have pulled in more viewers by now given the patches, the modders enhancements and the favourable press it has been getting lately.

[Rockin Robbins]

Very interesting. I've seen SH4 with more viewers lots of times. I guess some really good things are happening over there right now. I've been spending more time with SH4 lately.

That doesn't mean that SH3 is a dinosaur. It's equal to SH4 in my opinion, except for its problems losing career saves if several criteria aren't carefully met when you save the game (not too close to land, no ships in detection range, not engaged in combat...... unfortunately the list goes on and I probably don't know some of it). That really killled the joy for me. But the game is fabulous quality and the U-Boat war is much more engaging for me, an American who has always been fascinated by Admiral Donitz and his Shakespearean tragedy. Their strengths were their weaknesses. What propelled them to greatness condemned them to defeat. Their incomparable gallantry wasn't enough to save them. What a compelling situation! That game will be played for many years.

By the way, right now:

SH4: 138 viewers
SH4 Mods: 70 viewers

SH3: 234 viewers
SH3 Mods: 237 viewers

General Topics: 131 viewers

I hope the crybabies haven't succeeded in scaring people away from SH4, the best submarine simulator on planet Earth. If they have it will be many, many years before we see another sub sim published. And if they succeed I hope they're happy with the fruits of their foolishness.

[ReallyDedPoet]

In the end it is nice to have 2 great theatres to sim in :yep:

For me SH4 has been played since the beginning, SH3 is not going anywhere though.


RDP

[AVGWarhawk]

Really, look at how many posts for SH3 and SH4 have been made. Sh4 seems to be about 1/2 as many as SH3 (both mod/general forums for each). 1/2 as many is not bad considering the amount of time SH4 has been out. These figures would indicate a good interest in SH4. Then again, perhaps 1/2 of those posts are due to the bugs upon public sales generating more than the usual numbers of post if the game was flawless out of the box.

[SteamWake]

Its cyclic.

You cannot form a set of average values based upon a snap shot.

I have personally noticed that the amount of 'noise' on SH4 forums is far less than what it was when SH3 was released.

The forum rolls over much slower than the previous release.

All that means to me is that there is less people posting. It seems there is a few people perhaps a dozen or so that post on a regular basis further skewing the statistics.

On the other hand I have noticed an influx of 'new users' which is always a good thing.

Often these 'new users' post and the community jumps at them with 'use the search' or 'Oh thats old news' really making them feel welcome. Think about that before 'you' press the submit button next time.

[Captain Nemo]

Another thing to take into consideration when looking at the stats is that SH4 needs a higher spec machine to run it compared to SH3. I'm in the situation where SH3 runs fine on my current PC but SH4 would struggle so I haven't purchased SH4 yet. I'm sure others are in a similar situation.

That doesn't mean that SH3 is a dinosaur. It's equal to SH4 in my opinion, except for its problems losing career saves if several criteria aren't carefully met when you save the game (not too close to land, no ships in detection range, not engaged in combat...... unfortunately the list goes on and I probably don't know some of it). That really killled the joy for me.

I know that these issues can be a pain for some but for me they don't really have an impact on the enjoyment SH3 provides. Perhaps thats because I have never been affected by problem saves.

Nemo

[SteamWake]

Perhaps thats because I have never been affected by problem saves.

Nemo

Ditto, Im not sure why but I have never had a corrupted save and I save in all sorts of situations, submerged, in the middle of a convoy, surfaced in the middle of the pacific. etc.

I do keep a set of 4 seperate saves always overwriting the oldest just in case.

But were wandering off topic.... sorry :hmm:

[maerean_m]

Just wondering what 230 people would talk about, 2 and a half years after a game's launch date :hmm:

[Captain Nemo]

Just wondering what 230 people would talk about, 2 and a half years after a game's launch date :hmm:

SH3 is constantly evolving into a better sim with the likes of GWX and other mods. The GWX Mod Team as well as other mod developers have continually worked their socks off to make SH3 a better sim. This, in my opinion, is what has maintained a very high interest in SH3 and the forum.

Nemo

[JScones]

Some of the difference between the SH3 and SH4 figures can be explained quite easily. Simply log out and see what forums you can view. SH3 Mods Workshop: YES, SH4 Mods Workshop: NO.

So instantly there goes the stowaways from your SH4 Mods Workshop figure. ;)

Anyway, I don't think that simply taking snapshots of the number of viewers at any given time is any indication of "interest". There are too many other variables that influence the outcome of doing this - the time of day (prolly not too many SH4 forum viewers at 3am central US time but more Europeans on SH3 as it's 12pm their time and vice versa etc), the question as to whether viewers = activity, the adoption of a suitable "benchmark" level of interest etc etc.

Really, look at how many posts for SH3 and SH4 have been made. Sh4 seems to be about 1/2 as many as SH3 (both mod/general forums for each). 1/2 as many is not bad considering the amount of time SH4 has been out. These figures would indicate a good interest in SH4. Then again, perhaps 1/2 of those posts are due to the bugs upon public sales generating more than the usual numbers of post if the game was flawless out of the box.
Don't forget the SH3 archives. ;) The current post/thread figures only reflect from late-July 2005 - there's still many months' worth of SH3 posting/activity before that. ;)

@maerean_m: there are still some new roads being forged with SH3. It ain't dead yet. ;)

[Ducimus]

I blame it on the bad launch, personnaly. When SH4 was first launched, it had more viewers then Sh3 did. After awhile, i think the crowd got judgemental, and just went back to Sh3. If you cruise over the Sh3 forums once in a blue moon, occasionally you'll find a thread where all they do is make fun of SH4. The impression i get while viewing those threads, is that the general concensus is pretty much stuck in their ways, and they believe SH4 is crap. I suspect one day, they'll wake up and realize it isn't, but i dont expect that day to occur anytime soon.

[AVGWarhawk]

Just wondering what 230 people would talk about, 2 and a half years after a game's launch date :hmm:

Mostly chicks and their last nights conquests. Honestly though, I purchased SH3 when it first came out. After about 3 months of playing, I got bored with it. A year ago I decided to mess with it and by that time supermods were the buzz words. Once the mods were installed, I was hooked for a very long time and still hooked. SH3 is just a great game and a fantastic game once the modders got a hold of the files. So, there was much to talk about even today.

[THE_MASK]

Just wondering what 230 people would talk about, 2 and a half years after a game's launch date :hmm: Well , have a guess . You helped design it !!!!!! .

[SteamWake]

pretty much stuck in their ways, and they believe SH4 is crap.

Thats one way to put it.

In some ways SH3 is still a superior game but that is only because they have had two years to mod the heck out of it and continue to do so.

That being said SH4 is still a very good game becoming better every day. I presume someday it will actually trump SH3 when it is all said and done.

[ReallyDedPoet]

That being said SH4 is still a very good game becoming better every day. I presume someday it will actually trump SH3 when it is all said and done.

Lets hope it does, that's the idea right, to make these sims the best experience they can be. Be it SH1, 2, 3 now 4 and beyond....


RDP

[Steeltrap]

I've often thought of making a thread like this but felt there wasn't a lot of point to it. I've always seen SH3 having more users than SH4, other than the initial flurry when SH4 came out. It's true as I write this, and has been for the last 3 months at least.

The differences for me are:
* SH3 offers more interesting gameplay.
* SH4 still has significant issues the modders in SH3 have gone much further to addressing.
* the Atlantic will always, to me, be the more interesting theatre. The Japs never really got their ASW together. The USA subs started with technological superiority and simply extended it throughout the war. The increasing difficulty of the Atlantic makes it more interesting and a greater challenge. To make the Pacific as much of a challenge you would have to ignore historical reality - pretty stupid aim for a sim!
* SH4 is superior to SH3 in only a few areas (graphics, crew organisation being the most obvious) and those aren't major factors in what makes me interested. The AI in SH4 is still very poor, I can't make surface attacks ever without being detected, the level of air patrols is totally absurd etc..... So SH3 is, with its mods, a far better sim in the ways that count.

Given the point about the different theatres involved, SH4 would have to do the most important things far better than SH3 for it to be as enjoyable for me. Fact is, it doesn't (in fact, given it was a 'new' release, it isn't even up to the level of SH3 - and we know why that is......).

[AVGWarhawk]

SH4 is still a babe in the woods. Give it the time SH3 has had concerning modding and I believe it will be right up there. Honestly, I felt SH3 was a bit of a yawn straight out of the box after 3 months of play. When the super mods hit, then and only thin did I get interested again and stayed with it. Currently the guys really interested in modding SH4 making the best it can be are doing a fantastic job and I'll be the last one to tell them otherwise. All in all, I believe they are both great games in their own right.

[Ducimus]

As far as theater preference goes, the Atlantic has one major thing going for it that the pacific doesnt. "Hollywood" for want of a better term. It's evident everywhere you go in the SH3 community. Das boot styled crew shirts, das boot styled officer icons, many sounds used in game come from das boot.

Other then an old black and white movie with Clark Gable, name one movie that told of the pacific and the exploits of Fleet boats that people have acutally heard of? This kind of media coverage will always attract more people - it's been glamorized and dramatized. This glamorization peaks interest, and people start to read more about it. Hence, more people start getting into the atlantic, and assuming the pacific action to be as significant as (how one person i know put it), the "lithiuanian Navy". Personnally ive always felt that what the pacific theater lacked in scale, it made up for in intensity. Many of the harbor raids and such people like to do in the atlantic, are i believe are acutally inspired by stories from the pacific since it occured there more often then the one recorded incident called "skapa flow".


Another factor is simply, where people call home. Folks from the UK, and other parts of Europe, are simply going to be more interested in what occured near their part of the world. Its just a natural tendency. I did the same thing by doing most of my war patrols in the carriebean and US east cost while playing SH3.

[ReallyDedPoet]

simply going to be more interested in what occured near their part of the world. Its just a natural tendency. I did the same thing by doing most of my war patrols in the carriebean and US east cost while playing SH3.

With SH3 I could literally park in my back yard, in fact took my sub to where I kayak alot near my parent's house here on PEI.


RDP

[Von Tonner]

I wonder too if the greater popularity with SH3 does not also have something to do with the nature of the two oceans these two sims are played in. The Atlantic conjures up images of a cold, wet, grey and dangerous ocean with high running seas and hard stinging spray in your face. These are more in keeping with a war sim. The Pacific on the other hand, is generally warm, flat with beautiful sunsets and translucent blue seas. When you go up onto the bridge it’s hard to resist grabbing your trunks, suntan lotion, towel and shades. And then to top it all, you have these awesome scenery graphics where every island is a honeymoon must.


What made the difference so stark for me was having reloaded SH3 back onto my machine to mod it to Grey Wolf (not having played it with this mod before). On firing up one is immediately struck by the use of more subdued and steely colours and imagery which immediately conjures up mind pictures of menace, stealth and death. So different from SH4 with its sunny bright colours given the theatre it’s played in.

[TDK1044]

The Submarine war in the Atlantic offers much more drama and tension in my view. If SH3 ever becomes available without Starforce, I will happily reload it, patch it, mod it and play it.

I think what the post proves is that game immersion is always going to win out over graphical appearance, although having both is the perfect world. SH4 patched to 1.3 and modded with TM 1.5 is excellent, but it can't capture the Drama of the Atlantic. :D

[ReallyDedPoet]

The Submarine war in the Atlantic offers much more drama and tension in my view. :D
The drama is in the history, that will never change, but Stock SH3 did not offer this in the beginning, later super-mods like GWX ( close to 2 years later ) and others added drama into the game.

In time I think the same experience will be accomplished in SH4. I am just glad I have both SH3\4 to sim in :yep:


RDP

[John Channing]

HEY!

Saturday, Aug 18/07: 1:02 ET

SHIV: 103

SHIII: 104


IT'S A TIE!






Pointless comparison.

JCC

[SteamWake]

I still like apples :smug:

[John Channing]

I prefer wheelbarrows!

JCC