PC north of the border

[jumpy]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/16309

Seems that before too much longer that we will not be allowed to eat in public during Ramadan lest we offend... who, exactly?

Na’eem Raza, a senior consultant with the firm, said he was thrilled that the health boards had formally adopted the guidance. Yes, I'm sure he is. :down:


I can understand this attitude in a muslim country; when I lived in Bahrain, during Ramadan (as a european expatriot) and out of respect for local custom, we refrained from eating and drinking in public - when in Rome, and all of that.

However I find this to be contrary to the majority in the UK.

We are not a muslim country.

For the most part we are a secular society. Is it not enough that we accommodate our strictly pious mohammedan brethren with prayer rooms and the like at the work place? Can they not spend their lunch hour or whatever, cloistered away from the rest of us so they are not offended by our epicurean habits?

I must point out that most of the muslims I encountered abroad were not overly concerned by expats eating in public during ramadan - whilst they appreciated our consideration for their ways, they took the view that we were not of the faith, so why should we feel obliged to conform? Though there were some who felt this was more due to our ignorance of the 'proper ways to live' etc :roll: ie. as a muslim, than out of any sense of diversity.

Which draws me to the conclusion that the real problem here is one created, for the most part, by ingratiatingly spineless lefty do gooders who pride themselves on being offended on behalf of others, who seem to think that there is always something to which we must adapt our behaviour to in order to make someone else feel welcome. I'm sure there are plenty of muslims who might find such a toadying attitude embarrassing - "Ah, you did all of this, just for me? Err, that's really great, ahem, eer, you are most kind, drawing attention to our cultural differences by making everyone else change their actions to make me feel welcome... thank you."

Despite it being my home, this country stinks more and more with every passing day. And leaving aside the nutjobs for a moment, we are the ones causing it with these ridiculous assertations handed on down in the specious claims of equality.

[The Avon Lady]

I was waiting for Steed to post this a few days ago.

Is that why they call you Jumpy? :p

[The Avon Lady]

Posted by Jihad Watch's Hugh Fitzgerald:
Surely the whole point to fasting at Ramadan is to demonstrate that one is able to do so, is able to refrain from eating. And part of the effort should be to withstand temptation. It is idiotic to insist that non-Muslims refrain from eating, in other words idiotic, and cruel, and sinister, to ask them essentially to participate in some way in Ramadan, by themselves refraining from a meal. The adherents of no other religion ask that those not of that religion strictly observe, in order not to tempt, those observing certain religious dietary restrictions. Catholics during Lent did not demand that non-Catholics avoid eating meat; Jews do not demand that non-Jews refrain from eating pork, say, in the school cafeteria; Hindus do not insist that non-Hindu colleagues abstain from the meat of cattle. Only in the case of Muslims must the whole world join in.

And as bears repeating, this is absurd. Religiously-prompted dietary rules are occasions for demonstrating one's self-control. What self-control is being demonstrated if Muslims noisily and aggressively insist that non-Muslms must do nothing to provide "temptation" to the fasting Muslims?

Absurd, and disgusting. But no longer surprising.

As for this Muslim "consultancy" Meem, apparently spreading the Good Word about Islam far and wide all over Scotland, the Scottish Parliament should stop throwing money its way, and so should every other institution in Scotland. There has to be a stop, full stop, put to such demeaning and stupid acceptance of Muslim demands, or Muslim "advice" as to how to "win" Muslim hearts and Muslim minds.

Throw out all those political leaders who think this kind of thing is to be tolerated or, still worse, encouraged. Vote them out. No matter how much you agree with them on other issues, if they are appeasement-minded when it comes to Islam, they represent a menace to you that outweighs any conceivable good they might do. Their party does not matter. Vote them out.

Posted by: Hugh at August 14, 2007 9:02 PM (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/017778.php#c436423)
UPDATE: Good luck, Scotland (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C10%5Cstory_10-1-2007_pg7_36)!

[STEED]

I see that old gem is back. ;)

Well if I was in that situation I would tell them to get a life you sad plonkers.

And ask who exactly put this stupid idea forward? And I bet you here and now you would never find out and why? Simple, these twisted mined scum of the earth are cowards and they hind in the background behind simple minded liberal loonies who could not tell the difference from there ass and elbow.

Its not law and the muslim are not offended its time lock up these PC plonkers for life I say, just like the hot cross bun tosh a few years ago a radio station rung the British muslim council and they answered we are not offended and not interested in any way.

PC Loonies are causing a great deal of harm and mistrust with there no end of vile poison they release on to us, all they are is a bunch of sad acts who have no life at all.

[antikristuseke]

Its things like these that caused the invantion of sharpened sticks to stab at eachothers genitals in the first place, if anyone tried to force me to follow that id concider stabbing them in the groin a viable alternative to saying "No." :nope:
Seriously, this political correctness crap has been taken too far and now instead of being benign it is invasive and causes more problems than it even atempts to solve.

[Tchocky]

Argh, that's mental.

[The Avon Lady]

Its things like these that caused the invantion of sharpened sticks to stab at eachothers genitals in the first place
No. Sharpened sticks were first used to roast marshamallows while watching 2 people going at each other with wooden clubs and stones.

[antikristuseke]

We are speaking of two distinctly differet form of sharpened sticks, they both stem from the same hunting spear but one is used asa cooking utencil while the others only purpouse is to jab at genitals, they look the same to the untrained eye:lol:

[Chock]

Yup, seen the story a while ago. Anyone non-Muslim who adheres guidelines such as these, is a spineless moron.

Personally, I would go out of my way to be seen eating as much as possible if anyone tried to force this kind of crap on me. The quote on the original story link which says it would 'not cause resentment' is about as far removed from reality as it is possible to get. And, given that it comes from someone who works at a consultancy agency, I think it says a lot about the kind of consulting that company can offer. None of it good.

There is one good thing about this though: It does make me laugh to see that it was from the Daily Express. This being a newspaper that is generally aimed at people who are, politically, slightly right of Hitler. I bet D.E. readers were having heart attacks all over the country reading that over breakfast, which is no bad thing in my opinion:rotfl:

:D Chock

[Tchocky]

Wait, how is Diana involved in this one?

[SUBMAN1]

Seems to me that you are going to need your guns back at some point...

-S

[STEED]

Lock and Load people time to kick PC butt. :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

Yup, seen the story a while ago. Anyone non-Muslim who adheres guidelines such as these, is a spineless moron.

Personally, I would go out of my way to be seen eating as much as possible if anyone tried to force this kind of crap on me. The quote on the original story link which says it would 'not cause resentment' is about as far removed from reality as it is possible to get. And, given that it comes from someone who works at a consultancy agency, I think it says a lot about the kind of consulting that company can offer. None of it good.

There is one good thing about this though: It does make me laugh to see that it was from the Daily Express. This being a newspaper that is generally aimed at people who are, politically, slightly right of Hitler. I bet D.E. readers were having heart attacks all over the country reading that over breakfast, which is no bad thing in my opinion:rotfl:

:D Chock
I'm with Chock on this one. Watch my behind sit down with a large fat burger and fries during the holy month. All this talk of tolerance. Getting a bit old in my book and getting extremely out of hand. Having to run and hide to eat your sandwich is just plain stupid. Perhaps these folks who observe this month long fasting should have the month off. Offer them half pay or none at all because if you decide to pay them just about everyone in the office will become a month long faster for Ramadon. :roll:

[SUBMAN1]

I'm with Chock on this one. Watch my behind sit down with a large fat burger and fries during the holy month. All this talk of tolerance. Getting a bit old in my book and getting extremely out of hand. Having to run and hide to eat your sandwich is just plain stupid. Perhaps these folks who observe this month long fasting should have the month off. Offer them half pay or none at all because if you decide to pay them just about everyone in the office will become a month long faster for Ramadon. :roll:

Why not go one major step forward and make that a ham sandwich! :D :p

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm with Chock on this one. Watch my behind sit down with a large fat burger and fries during the holy month. All this talk of tolerance. Getting a bit old in my book and getting extremely out of hand. Having to run and hide to eat your sandwich is just plain stupid. Perhaps these folks who observe this month long fasting should have the month off. Offer them half pay or none at all because if you decide to pay them just about everyone in the office will become a month long faster for Ramadon. :roll:
Why not go one major step forward and make that a ham sandwich! :D :p

Touche' :rock:

[STEED]

UPDATE: Good luck, Scotland (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C10%5Cstory_10-1-2007_pg7_36)!

There is evidence that they are to busy making fools of themselves. ;)

'Fly Saltire higher - or army has to go' (http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1241622007)

[Skybird]

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/16309

UPDATE: Good luck, Scotland (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C10%5Cstory_10-1-2007_pg7_36)!

More idiots.

Britain, thy fall is a long and deep one. You are truly going insane. Where's your glory gone? In short a while all world will spit on you for your foolishness.

But don't feel lonely down there. We will follow you soon.

(Sorry, British guys! You know how I mean it, no personal offending or disrespect for your history is meant).

[STEED]

Wake up you dozy mut, Britain needs you.

http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/2002/__data/page/850/britbulldog_1.jpg

[Sea Demon]

Lock and Load people time to kick PC butt. :yep:

Yes. Yes. and more yes. The left-wing PC crowd is like a bunch of insects. Like termites, they are destructive to your home/nation. They tear the foundations of society in the name of "tolerance" and "cultural sensitivity". I would love to see them put in their proper place before the damage is irreversible. You folks in the UK don't have too much time left. We Americans need to learn the lessons from your experiences before our situation is as dire as yours.

[Tchocky]

I believe that words have power to shape and influence the way we think. By using language that is politically correct, that is, calculated not to cause offense, we can present an image that is inclusive and respectful.
By not using the words n*gger, queer, kike etc, I am giving out a signal, albeit a weak one, that I am not prejudiced. Courtesy, in other words.
Obviously there are extreme cases which cloud the picture, where people go too far. our litigious society doesn't help matters here. They also make the idea of respect easy to condemn, insult, and jeer.
I'm finding it hard to imagine mutual respect for each other being destructive to my home.
Respect and courtesy, how very virulent.

[Sea Demon]

I'm finding it hard to imagine mutual respect for each other being destructive to my home.
Respect and courtesy, how very virulent.
You miss the whole point here. Usually the PC crowd has no intentions of actually fostering an environment where there is "respect", "courtesy", or any type of mutual understanding. What they seek is the destruction of the values of the majority native population. Like the article says above, native UK'ers shouldn't be allowed to eat at their own choosing because they might offend a few Muslims. And this is only one of countless stories. What about Muslim tolerance for the values of their hosts? What about that, PC crowd? That's what I'm interested in.

I personally don't care who's offended by what I do or say. Screw em'. If they can't handle freedom of thought, freedom of speech, and freedom of opinion, then they are in the wrong nation. They are simply incompatible with a free nation. Time to go home to your Muslim nation where Ramadan is the order of the day. And yes, I think that lefty PC people are also incompatible with a free society considering it is people's free thoughts, behaviors, and values they seek to change. That is not freedom. It is tyranny. Time for them to go also. What they seek is destructive to the very foundations of my nation. That being freedom.

[Skybird]

I believe that words have power to shape and influence the way we think. By using language that is politically correct, that is, calculated not to cause offense, we can present an image that is inclusive and respectful.
By not using the words n*gger, queer, kike etc, I am giving out a signal, albeit a weak one, that I am not prejudiced. Courtesy, in other words.
Obviously there are extreme cases which cloud the picture, where people go too far. our litigious society doesn't help matters here. They also make the idea of respect easy to condemn, insult, and jeer.
I'm finding it hard to imagine mutual respect for each other being destructive to my home.
Respect and courtesy, how very virulent.
All nice as well. Just doesn't answer this most important question if really all and every BS must necessarily be tolerated and honoured by not saying the truth about it.

And who said that this respect you think that does not damage your home - is mutual...?

What quote by Thomas Mann did AL give some months ago? "Tolerance of evil is a crime."

[Sea Demon]

this most important question if really all and every BS must necessarily be tolerated and honoured by not saying the truth about it.


Ahh. This is the essence of PC thought as I've seen it. The key word you use here is "truth". What you say here Skybird, I agree with. My own thoughts concerning what PC thought truly is, it is a blindfold and earplugs that PC people/socialists/lefties use so they don't have to be subjected to the truths of the world. If they can stop you from saying certain things, or thinking certain things then they have succeeded in altering your society in an incredibly radical way.

And here in America, the PC crowd is trying to change the language radically and in an intellectually dishonest way. If you want border enforcement, a stable immigration process, assimilation, English immersion, and medical screening for immigrants entering the country....then you must be anti-immigrant. You must be a hater of 3rd world people. This is a very destructive tactic as it enables the current problems to worsen. And the problems will eventually lead to the unthinkable. The PC crowd is truly destructive to my nation in this regard as well. In Europe, they seem to be telling you that if you don't change your ways to the standards of the Muslim community, then YOU are the ones causing the problems. Just sick. Absolutely bass-ackwards.

[waste gate]

The PC movement has always been about controlling minds. From the earliest age people are subjected to an onslaught of half truths and spin.

Very dangerous it is.

[Tchocky]

You miss the whole point here. Usually the PC crowd has no intentions of actually fostering an environment where there is "respect", "courtesy", or any type of mutual understanding. What they seek is the destruction of the values of the majority native population.Would you care to expand on this? I don't really understand how it works against native values, whatever they might be. It certainly doesn't work against a culture of fairness or equity. Like the article says above, native UK'ers shouldn't be allowed to eat at their own choosing because they might offend a few Muslims. And this is only one of countless stories. What about Muslim tolerance for the values of their hosts? What about that, PC crowd? That's what I'm interested in. Um, most of the Muslims in Britain are citizens, as far as I know.
Also, having lunch at your desk isn't a real core value?
But, this story is fundamentally ridiculous, and displays a great misunderstanding of the issue, as many here have pointed out. It's at the wacky end of the idea of PC and shouldn't, in my view, be used as an argument against. It's not an indictment of the entire idea.
I personally don't care who's offended by what I do or say. Screw em'. If they can't handle freedom of thought, freedom of speech, and freedom of opinion, then they are in the wrong nation. They are simply incompatible with a free nation.Anyone who gets offended by language is incompatible with a free nation?
Or wait, anyone who is offended by any action is incompatible with a free society?
Just because you don't care does not mean that no-one does. And respect for the feelings of others is a mark of civilisation. Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, and all that.
Time to go home to your Muslim nation where Ramadan is the order of the day. And yes, I think that lefty PC people are also incompatible with a free society considering it is people's free thoughts, behaviors, and values they seek to change. That is not freedom. It is left-wing tyranny. Time for them to go also.Not every Muslim is from outside the US :doh:
You've also got a very odd idea of a free society. And what is or is not "left-wing".

All nice as well. Just doesn't answer this most important question if really all and every BS must necessarily be tolerated and honoured by not saying the truth about it. It doesn't answer that of course. But neither should there be no tolerance, you know, just in case a Real Evil slips through. What is and is not tolerated is where politics, justice, and morality happen.
The truth? Now there's an alien concept.
And who said that this respect you think that does not damage your home - is mutual...?Erm, nobody said that. That we respect each other is a trait that not everyone follows. However, it seems that most people in at least my society, believe in treating one another with respect and decency. Mutual. Do unto others, etc. If that spells the end of my society.....sorry guys i just can't follow that.
Tolerating others does not mean tolerating everything.

And here in America, the PC crowd is trying to change the language radically and in an intellectually dishonest way. If you want border enforcement, a stable immigration process, assimilation, English immersion, and medical screening for immigrants entering the country....then you must be anti-immigrant. You must be a hater of 3rd world people.No, I think this is the nasty trap of believing the worst about your opponents, and taking their extremes as centrist. You know, the same way every Republican is a Nazi and the Dems are nothing but a bunch of dope-smoking hippy communists. In Europe, they seem to be telling you that if you don't change your ways to the standards of the Muslim community, then YOU are the ones causing the problems.I don't see any changes to Muslim standards. I see changes made to accommodate other religions, but that's different.

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't see any changes to Muslim standards. I see changes made to accommodate other religions, but that's different.

Personally, I believe this "accomodation" has gone a bit to far. Co-worker of mine just got back from Bahrain. I inquired about this and said the holy month he could not eat or smoke at his deck. Some other things as well. But, he was in the heart of the country that observes this so he did as the Romans would do. He certainly did not drag out his Christmas tree and hang a stocking on his desk on the 25th of December. He respected their culture and did not attempt to impose his beliefs in the name of tolerance or otherwise. He spent two years there. I'm sorry, but I'm a firm believer in assimulating with the culture as best one can without asking them to change their behavoir to suit mine.

[Sea Demon]

Tchocky, I think you're wrapping yourself a little around the axle too much. It's really alot simpler than you think. What I ask is quite simple. Where is the tolerance for the majority population in this regard? Why should anyone have to change their eating habits/places to accomodate someone's religion? This is just stupid. Where does it end? Personally I don't think it does, and that has been clearly demonstrated. And the fact that you can't see it, show's me that going on a "back-and-forth" with you is futile. And I think most would heartily disagree with you.

But I will tell you what works against my native values since you mentioned it. I'm totally against someone forcing me to stop eating at a location just to accomodate somebody else's beliefs. I'm against somebody telling me that if I just referred to God as "Allah", that would create peace with the Muslim communities? I don't believe it would. And it totally goes against my own religious values and teachings. I'm against the killing or harrassment of a fellow citizen who draws a political cartoon depicting the prophet muhammed. That goes against my native values. It also goes against my native values to plot and succeed in planting bombs on airplanes or buses. You know, the places where innocent women and children may be. How about crashing airplanes into buildings? I can think of much more. But the most important of these is that it goes against my native values not to be able to point any of it out, lest I offend a PC practitioner. These people are typically left-wingers. Lets not kid ourselves here.

And yes, they are incompatible with freedom due to their desires to change the language to support their own political beliefs. They do not seek mutual respect in most cases. They seek to change the way the majority population thinks, acts, and say. If you think they are looking to build a "culture of fairness and equality" you are sadly mistaken. This story is literally the tip of the iceberg. There should be no changes to accomodate anyone's religion. Just build your mosque, go there and shut up. And try not to kill any infidels on your way there. No, you can't have taxpayer funded footbaths at airports. It's not a mosque. Yes, I will eat at my desk at lunch, I don't observe Ramadan. Yes, I will enjoy political cartoons depicting Muhammed. It's a free country. Yes, I will heavily criticize the Muslim community for getting outraged over these cartoons, yet apparently have no concern over Muslims who behead innocent civilians. I have free thought and speech. If you can't handle it, time to go. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.... This is not about accomodation or understanding. It is about forcing a change so somebody (a weak minded individual mind you) else isn't offended. Who the hell is accomodating me????

[Sea Demon]

Here's a nice little read:

http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2007/08/14/muslims-against-free-speech-in-usa/?print=1

[AVGWarhawk]

Why should anyone have to change their eating habits/places to accomodate someone's religion? This is just stupid. Where does it end?


I'm with you on this issue. It would seem that a few select groups are constantly getting 'accomodated'. Mean while, the rest are to just grin and bare it. Forget it, tired of grinning and baring it. If the month is holy then take the month off without pay, go home and fast. End of story. If said person who observes this month can not afford to take off, then enjoy your lunch hour outside. Is there any reason the entire office has to leave so the one does not have to see them eating? Pure rubbish.


BTW, play nice;)

[Tchocky]

I'm a bit surprised, actually.
You've managed to jump from an absurd lunchtime rule to 9/11, suicide bombing and asking Muslims to "try not to kill any infidels on your way" to a mosque.

:dead:

[SUBMAN1]

I'm a bit surprised, actually.
You've managed to jump from an absurd lunchtime rule to 9/11, suicide bombing and asking Muslims to "try not to kill any infidels on your way" to a mosque.

:dead:

Can I ask if you are Muslim or follow the Islamic faith? I am beginning to question your motives is all.

-S

[Tchocky]

You'll have to explain what you mean there, SUBMAN

[SUBMAN1]

You'll have to explain what you mean there, SUBMAN

I think it is pretty straight forward, and anyone reading this should easily figure out what I am looking for, so why the question?

-S

[Tchocky]

I think it is pretty straight forward, and anyone reading this should easily figure out what I am looking for, so why the question?I'm not so sure. I've referred to this lunch move as "mental", "fundamentally ridiculous", and "from the wacky end of the PC idea". I've only started posting in response to the idea the political correctness would destroy my home/nation, which I disagree with. I'm trying to avoid sliding into a discussion on Muslim integration, because i think that would cloud the larger issue of political correctness.
I've used the word Muslim about four times in this thread, and for that you're questioning my motives?
My motive here is discussion, more or less.

[bradclark1]

UPDATE: Good luck, Scotland (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C10%5Cstory_10-1-2007_pg7_36)!
The more I read this kind of crap the more I realize that democracy will kill itself or kill us. It's not just this one article and Islam it's all the whacked out stuff thats steadily happening, corrupt politicians. Everything! It's going past the point of ridiculous.
It's depressing. Guess I'll go take my pills now.:cry:

[fatty]

Maybe this is some form of divine and ironic payback for subjugating one quarter of the Earth for all those years ;)

[Skybird]

UPDATE: Good luck, Scotland (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2007%5C01%5C10%5Cstory_10-1-2007_pg7_36)!
The more I read this kind of crap the more I realize that democracy will kill itself or kill us. It's not just this one article and Islam it's all the whacked out stuff thats steadily happening, corrupt politicians. Everything! It's going past the point of ridiculous.
It's depressing. Guess I'll go take my pills now.:cry:
Bring me one, too, please.

[Skybird]

All nice as well. Just doesn't answer this most important question if really all and every BS must necessarily be tolerated and honoured by not saying the truth about it. It doesn't answer that of course. But neither should there be no tolerance, you know, just in case a Real Evil slips through. What is and is not tolerated is where politics, justice, and morality happen.
The truth? Now there's an alien concept.
Not at all. But one own's identity is formed by identifying what is one's own/oneself, b.) what is not one's own/oneself. the act of making differences, to separate, to draw lines that define what is "in" and what is "out", is necessary, and from here you get the understanding what you can afford to tolerate, and what not. The truth is important insofar as it is about historical events and processes that are "true" in so far" as truth is in common language used to point at the common standard of knowledge in sciences. Referring to history's events and processes thus is a legitimate way to gain impressions on and form an assessemewnt of what is not me, but is the other (nation, people, ideology, religion, whatever). When you say truth is so relative that it cannot be named, then you say that we should not allow history being used as an example to learn from. And by that you prevent defining one's own identity at all. No wonder then that you are happy to indiscriminately tolerate all and everything - for when you have no identity, you cannot make destinctions to differ between you and "non-you". But that is no multicultural side-by-side. It is a green-grey, featureless, meaningless mass that results when you add all colours into one pot and stir it until it all is well mixed. Nobody would mistaken that ugly pot of dark green colpur with a skilled painting. It is total uniformity. And as I often have said in the past: if you do not know your own identity, and cannot make the differene between "me" and "you", you are unable to define reasonable rules to hold the community together, for the latter is depending on the first. This is the phase the West has entered, and where Britain alraedy seem to have advanced very far: it shows in these unreasonable rules that are displaying PC, and that result in "vorauseilendem" obedience towards foreigners, and puts the interest of the fews and stranger above that of the many and the culturally/geographically local residents, and leads to an overboarding production of headless rules that simply are no rules that make sense, but crap. For sense would have identity as a preconditiuon, and that sense of our own identity is dying out. no matter that we fall victim so easily to an ideology that is totally hostile towards the morals and rules and political understanding of our former identity - for we have forgotten it, and since we do not know who we are anymore, we are unable to defend us. We are even unwilling to defend us. If we do not enforce OUR rules on the basis of OUR identity, we have a society either with the rules of the others, or no rules at all. the latter is called anarchy. and in an anarchy not the most sensible, reasonable and friendly survives, but the most aggressive, brutal, unscrupullous - the strongest.

And who said that this respect you think that does not damage your home - is mutual...?Erm, nobody said that. [/quote]

Wrong, you did, and that is what I refer to: "I'm finding it hard to imagine mutual respect for each other being destructive to my home." You imply that the respect is mutal from the beginning. Let me tell you - it is not so.

That we respect each other is a trait that not everyone follows. However, it seems that most people in at least my society, believe in treating one another with respect and decency. Mutual. Do unto others, etc. If that spells the end of my society.....sorry guys i just can't follow that.

And what if your ammount of tolerance is not answered in the same way by the other? You assume that this automatically always must be the case. But Islam does not respect western conceptions of liberty, freedom, democarcy - it sees them as weaknesses that could be exploited. These would have been a threat to Muhammad's power, and he designed it all to be exactly preventing these threats. You cannot understand Islam and why it is what it is, if you do not know Muhammad's historic biograohy and from that form a reasonable model of his personality. This is essential, and without it, Islam (Muhammadanism) cannot be explained and is history's great riddle of absurdities. Understand the man and his motives - and suddenly all falls into place. It's a personal cult, like what the leader in North korea is doing, amongst others in the past: totalitarian mind control, brainwashing, monuments if not in stone, then in tales.

Saddam did the same. He copied the example set by Muhammad.

And you may want to recall where this almost unlimited determination to be decent and respectful have led your ancestors to when they sent Chamberlain and beliveed what they wanted to believe. Was Chamberlain finding an attitude in Hitler that mirrord his own attitude? Hardly. He just beoieved so. I know this example has been beaten to death - but it simply is valid, and true.

You probably assume that Islam follows comparable ethics and morals and goals like western free, liberal, democratic societies. that it compares to Jesus' religion, and is not muhc different. But it is, and this is what leads you to your dangerous attitutudes towards it. What you mean as a gesture of good intentions - from islam's perspective is an indication that you are weak and close to fall. So, it does not see the need to answer you your favour. Instead it pushes forward even more ruthless.

You/your nation/your culture/your wealth are considered a prey, and an obstacle on the way to true peace. You better believe me. Without doubt you won't, there is no room in your good-hearted worldviews for such a brutal reality. But still - you better should believe it.

The current pope has entered one important word into the Islam debate: that is "reciprocity". It cannot be that since almost half a century now we built mosques in the West en masse, and accept ridiculously high muslim immigration - and at the same time christian communities in muslim nations get opressed, get discriminated, get reduced in size, churches shut down, priest and nuns murdered on the streets. It cannot be that this monumental disbalance is accepted to be carried on in the name of an faint and still dying hope that what has not taken place in the past 50 years, hopefully will happen in the next 50 years. Islams goals are not the goals of the Western attempt to acchieve coexistence. Coexstince is something islam is not about. It is madness to assume any longer that our motves must be islam's motives as well.

I do not even go into the totally failed integration project in eurupre. England, Holland, France, Germany, Norway, Sweden - the integration of Muslims has failed. No conclusions from that?

Know and understand your enemy. Never before has this old advise been so important for our surviving than today.

You know what? If Islam is the Cylons, then you are Sire Uri, and I am Commander Adama then. :cool:

[jumpy]

You know what? If Islam is the Cylons, then you are Sire Uri, and I am Commander Adama then. :cool:

Can we recognice the 'Cylons' by their swishing red eye visor lights then :lol: and their cheesy bbc sounds workshop voices?

If only it were as funny as that, we might have some hope of reversing some of the blatant idiocy of late.
I would say more but I doubt it's anything you lot have never heard before. :roll:

[Skybird]

You know what? If Islam is the Cylons, then you are Sire Uri, and I am Commander Adama then. :cool:

Can we recognice the 'Cylons' by their swishing red eye visor lights then :lol:
Well, sometimes it almost seems as if... but what am I talking...

[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3857/0102057502100ua3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6991/medium526091506popeprotxs1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9562/20060915t085036450x297urn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Admitted - the swishing is mishing :lol:

[AntEater]

One fundamental fact about PC (researched by myself and I).
Acolytes of PC think they are in a position of strenght. According to them, the west is so superior it can grant those tidbits to the oppressed people.
Basically, for these people, world history ground to a halt in 1991 and now we're just playing overtime, like in Sid Meyer's Civilization games when you won the game, you could still play on.
The west, according to them, has basically "won" history and grants those privileges to the losers.
The fact that for the rest of the world, history goes on after 1991 does not seem to bother them, that other factions like Russia, China or the islamic states still try to "win" is just ignored.
If the west were really in that position of strenght those people assume (I doubt it ever was), PC would like the treatment of the indians in "brave new world".
Problem is, the west, not only Europe but also the US are not that strong anymore.
Demographically, our populations decline (ok, every civilized nation seems to have that problem), we basically sold out our basic industries to China, India and eastern Europe. The west, while still strong, does not enjoy the godlike status those people assume.
That is the assumption about the west.
About the rest of the world, it is basically a "noble savage" complex.
Strangely enough, those people who seem to care for third world peoples are those that take them the least seriously. They treat them like children, while in reality, they're more than capable of the same cruelties and power plays as we are.
Add to that a distorted view of history that pins down every cruelty on this planet on westerners like overstating the cruelty of the Crusades or the Conquista.
Surely both were cruel episodes, but what was before was no less cruel, or in chase of latin america, cruel beyond our imagination.

That is, in a nutshell, the Weltanschauung of a PC nature.
As a closed commie, I can tell you it has nothing to do with socialism. It is a substitute ideology former socialists adopted when they realized that socialism was not en vogue any longer.
At least in Europe, PC knows hardly any political factions.

[Jimbuna]

You know what? If Islam is the Cylons, then you are Sire Uri, and I am Commander Adama then. :cool:

Can we recognice the 'Cylons' by their swishing red eye visor lights then :lol:
Well, sometimes it almost seems as if... but what am I talking...


http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3857/0102057502100ua3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6991/medium526091506popeprotxs1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/9562/20060915t085036450x297urn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Admitted - the swishing is mishing :lol:

LMAO :rotfl: :rotfl:

We'll just have to rely on the headgear as the giveaway then ;)