Cold-War Era SH5

[The General]

Ok, I've never done this before but I'll give it a try. It's a Poll to see who agrees with me and thinks that SH5 should be Cold-War era Nukes and Diesel/Electric Russian and American subs going head-to-head in the Atlantic?

I urge you to read some of the postings below before voting, thanks.

[The General]

If the Devs start now, Ubisoft could have it on the shelves by the first quarter of 2009. Just a little joke there.:D

[Bluesub 6]

I had played Cold-War Era Subsim:688(i) and Sub Command from EA.

[Sonarman]

Not so sure that there would be a big enough mass market audience for that, Dangerous Waters pretty much flopped. I think it is very difficult trying to please everyone and get a large enough audience for a good return i.e. satisfy the true subsimmers level of complexity (eg Dangerous Waters) vs something a bit more gamey that "normal people" would play/buy (eg Red Storm Rising).

Personally, I think it's time to hit the surface for Destroyer Command 2.

[The General]

Well, EA's Battlefield series went from the 1942 arena to modern day warfare very successfully.

Think of all the cool stuff we would be able to do; hunting for enemy subs under the ice-pack, or breaking through said ice to launch a missile strike! Fantastic stuff! Go watch The Hunt for Red October, Crimson Tide, Ice Station Zebra and K-19: The Widowmaker and then tell me it isn't the best idea since bread came sliced!

[The General]

Anybody's who's played Red Storm Rising on the C64 knows the potential of such a sim. Trust me, it's gonna be awesome!:rock:

[Q3ark]

Yes i think that if the silent hunter team did a cold war era game i could be very good. You could set it in the 60's and have nuke and diesel boats. The trouble with Sub Command was the very steep learning curve left a lot of people (me included) out in the cold.

[orangenee]

You're all forgetting 688 Attack sub, great game and you could play as the Ruskies too. But IF Ubi decide to do an SH5 it'll need to be something that doesn't involve WWII, I've played that many WWII games now I feel like I should attend Veterans Parades.

[STEED]

Cold war = No real event, borring.

WW2 = Real event, lots of action.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Cold war = No real event, borring.

WW2 = Real event, lots of action.

Yes. Still lots of expansion for the WWII Theatres :yep:


RDP

[jdkbph]

No vote, because the what I think is the right answer wasn't on the list :)

If there's a SH5... and IF the devs get the proper committment from UBI to finish what they start... then I'd be all over a sub sim set in WWI.


JD

[micky1up]

its not very exciting if you cant sink anything the cold war submarine actions was described as 99% bordom punctuated by 1% terror on occasion i dont think it would make a good game and as a serving member who was serving during the cold war you could say i know what im talking about

[FAdmiral]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too. Make MP like it was in the days of SH2/Destroyer Command. In other words, open the flood gate and allow anything goes !!

JIM

[Kpt. Lehmann]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. JIM

Heck yeah.

I'd drink to that.:up: :up: :up:

[The General]

Well, I'm not saying that the Silent Hunter series shouldn't return to the WWII arena, afterall it'd be a shame to waist all the work that's gone into recreating life aboard a WWII sub. I just think it'd be cool to give the cold-war a try.

[Mickle]

No vote, because the what I think is the right answer wasn't on the list :)

If there's a SH5... and IF the devs get the proper committment from UBI to finish what they start... then I'd be all over a sub sim set in WWI.


JD

FTW

[mookiemookie]

I'd like them to get WW2 right before moving on to a snoozefest like the Cold War

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

I like the idea, mainly because the early Cold War period has not been tackled. Alright there's a lack of historical event to go on, but how many times have games written an alternate history despite the initially historical setting?

However I have a feeling it would turn out worse then SH4, simply because there would be a lot to implement. And we all know it would be half finished as always.

[C DuDe]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too. Make MP like it was in the days of SH2/Destroyer Command. In other words, open the flood gate and allow anything goes !!

JIM


Uhu, uhu... I see where this is going..
HELL YEAH!!!!!!:up:

[Iron Budokan]

Imagine the heart-stopping excitement of a Cold War simlulation as you follow a Russian sub around, being a hole in the water and following it around as it performs its own secret mission of parking itself off the coast of the United States monitoring electronic traffic and then you get to follow the Russian sub back to its home base being a hole in the water and what pulse-pounding heart-stopping action that would be as you follow the Russian sub being a hole in the water I'm about to nut just thinking about it better take my blood pressure medicine I don't know if I can take the nervous tension of following a Russian sub around while I'm a hole in the water I mean it just doesn't get any more blood-pounding nerve-wracking that that, now does it?

Or does it.

Well, yes, because you can be a sub on the super secret mission of Ivy Bells! Yes, you too can be a hole in the water as you sneak towards the cable underwater and replace the monitoring equipment and then sneak way. I mean, my God, what pulse-pounding heart-thrilling nerve-tightening excitement that would be! I'm getting light headed just thinking about it. I'm so psyched I want to punch my fist through the wall!

But calm down, bunky, because it gets better! I know, hard to believe, but you haven't even touched the icing on this cake 'cuz you also (get ready for it) get to follow a Russian trawler around while you're a hole in the water and monitor its electronic signals as it monitors electronic signals of American ships on maneuvers. And what happens when you plot and calculate your TMA and run a practice attack maneuver, well, then you just stand down because you're not going to be allowed to put a fish into that trawler's guts as much as you might like to. Ecitement! History! Jaw-dropping eye-popping heart-pounding excitement as you follow the Russian trawler around and then slip away being a hole in the water and you go back home, a mission well done and a slap on the back from Admiral Rickover.

Now I know what you're thinking. That in itself would be more than enough for a gut-wrenching mind-blowing experience but you would be wrong! Because now you get to take your sub and park it under the North Pole and stay there, being a hole in the water, coming up to a polyna occasionally and raising your mast so you can radio your situation and you receive heart-hammering orders to stay at your postion being a hole in the water.

I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

[Subnuts]

You know guys, I think The General was referring to a hypothetical World War III scenario. :88)

[cali03boss]

LOL!!!


Cold War Silent Hunter?

Here is your mission:

Patrol the North Atlantic. Sit there. Wait for a confirmation to fire missiles which never comes. Get excited 4 times throughout a 50 year campaign.


Seriously. That would be the lamest waste of money ever. Ubisoft will never be that stupid.

[scrapser]

Red Storm Rising had a story behind it. I think this is what made the game what it was. The problem with modern submarine warfare is all the "automation" (wire guided torpedoes, guided anti-surface cruise missiles, anti-air missiles, sonar buoys, decoys, etc.). The main focus is to remain as undetectable as possible and surface action is very limited and actually quite unorthodox, even more than may have occurred in WW2. It just doesn't have the same "hands on" feel to it in my opinion. I also don't see a lot of excitement in nuking an enemy surface fleet or land targets.

Years ago, Microprose was working on a title called, "Destroyer Command" which was supposed to compliment "Silent Service". You would be able to match wits against someone else playing Silent Service on a LAN (today that would be online). It never materialized but I always thought how cool it would be to be manning one of the destroyers escorting a convoy with the AI managing the other DD's. I think the next SH series should move in this direction. Improve the overall sim with lessons learned making SH3 and SH4, expand the "world" to include both ponds, and include being able to man a destroyer if you choose.

Best of all worlds! Most of it is already developed...just need to get the project okayed and a team assembled to put it together and hone the rough spots.

[Snakeeyes]

HELL YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH BOIEEEEEEE!

Bring it!

[tater]

If many submarines weren't actually incombat sinking millions of tons of shipping, it's a snooze.

Having a cold war version that turns into a shooting war might as well be a space combat game IMO (if you're gonna do fantasy, go all the way!).

tater

[orangenee]

Silent Space Hunter it is.

[Sailor Steve]

Sure there should be a new cold war sub sim; and it should be Dangerous Waters 2. Silent Hunter is, was and should always be a WW2 sim.

And it's "bear", which means to carry, not "bare" which means to get naked.

[cali03boss]

or submarines in space. Stealth cruisers that sneak up on large vessels then fire atomic torpedos to cripple the infrastructure.

[tater]

Some hardcore space combat guys (I was one of them) working on board games did a lot of work on "realistic" space combat within the limits of the particular SF universe in question (keeping the canon, and breaking as few laws of physics as possible from there). At first we wanted "subs in space" style gameplay, then we did the math.

All the power generated by the spacecraft must be radiated away. If you want fast spacecraft, they simply cannot hide to any reasonable passive sensor array (IR telescope, basically).

Heheh.

tater

[AS]

Hypothetical or not, I´m not interested in post WW2 sims. I gave 688i Hunter/Killer and the old Fast Attack a try, but it was a very boring and frustrating experience. To me, staring at waterfall displays all the time is just a waste of time, no experience at all: you don´t see your enemy you don´t see the surface you don´t see any impacts - only response to a hit is a voice message saying "target destroyed" - I don´t need a next generation PC for that! everything is very indirect and sterile - no atmosphere and immersion at all!" Just my two cents, cheers, AS

[silentrunner]

Well, I'm not saying that the Silent Hunter series shouldn't return to the WWII arena, afterall it'd be a shame to waist all the work that's gone into recreating life aboard a WWII sub. I just think it'd be cool to give the cold-war a try.I agree WWII subsims can't be beat but I always thaught there was something exciting in the secret cold war world; subs VS subs

[u-168]

flipping right it should be it would be so cool and make it more to scale than sh3 and sh4.also have all the cold war sub's in so you can pick from all of them plus you can enable a setting so you can choose sub's from sh3 sh4.:hmm:


u-168

[micky1up]

if its going to be done how will they get accuracy? most of the incidents are highly classified and will be for many years to come and you wont get any serving submariners that will break the secrets act to create a game ,its a good idea but i think the execution of it will be hampered if not flawed


but i think that a new red storm rising game with modern graphics and simulation would be great a story to run by aswell and a damn fine book

[The General]

Imagine the heart-stopping excitement of a Cold War simlulation as you follow a Russian sub around, being a hole in the water and following it around as it performs its own secret mission of parking itself off the coast of the United States monitoring electronic traffic and then you get to follow the Russian sub back to its home base being a hole in the water and what pulse-pounding heart-stopping action that would be as you follow the Russian sub being a hole in the water I'm about to nut just thinking about it better take my blood pressure medicine I don't know if I can take the nervous tension of following a Russian sub around while I'm a hole in the water I mean it just doesn't get any more blood-pounding nerve-wracking that that, now does it?

Or does it.

Well, yes, because you can be a sub on the super secret mission of Ivy Bells! Yes, you too can be a hole in the water as you sneak towards the cable underwater and replace the monitoring equipment and then sneak way. I mean, my God, what pulse-pounding heart-thrilling nerve-tightening excitement that would be! I'm getting light headed just thinking about it. I'm so psyched I want to punch my fist through the wall!

But calm down, bunky, because it gets better! I know, hard to believe, but you haven't even touched the icing on this cake 'cuz you also (get ready for it) get to follow a Russian trawler around while you're a hole in the water and monitor its electronic signals as it monitors electronic signals of American ships on maneuvers. And what happens when you plot and calculate your TMA and run a practice attack maneuver, well, then you just stand down because you're not going to be allowed to put a fish into that trawler's guts as much as you might like to. Ecitement! History! Jaw-dropping eye-popping heart-pounding excitement as you follow the Russian trawler around and then slip away being a hole in the water and you go back home, a mission well done and a slap on the back from Admiral Rickover.

Now I know what you're thinking. That in itself would be more than enough for a gut-wrenching mind-blowing experience but you would be wrong! Because now you get to take your sub and park it under the North Pole and stay there, being a hole in the water, coming up to a polyna occasionally and raising your mast so you can radio your situation and you receive heart-hammering orders to stay at your postion being a hole in the water.

I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.Thanks for your support. I agree with your wonderful illustration of how exciting it could all be. If only we could get more people on our side (like Neal)!

[denis_469]

I vote in WWII era. So if UBI made game cold war era so it's game was wrong (sich DW). Really data to submarine, electronic weapons and few other not available now. Sertain naval weapons after WWII I have data, but it not full information for game. Main question about US submarine (nuclear). In most books US submarine data is wrong. And wrong more about british submarine. In US and UK it's data is secret, so we have not big or less reality sim. End was like DW with many many factition bags.

[Xapp696]

Space Invaders Silent Hunter. WOOT WOOT:lol:

[CDR Resser]

I LIKE FAdmiral's idea. :up::up:
WWII, pick a side, pick a sub and have at it.
Best idea I've heard for a sub sim in a long time.

Respectfully Submitted;
CDR Resser

[scrag]

Been involved in this for a long time and I have yet to find a SIM that is even CLOSE to being accurate. Most of them overate the aviation or skimmers capabilities. The setting would have to be in the mid to late 80's with a catalyst like a KAL 007 downing. Leave the 21 class out. ALL the previous sims were crap regarding what actual tactical doctrine would be. Bottomline was that the Soviets were going to use combined arms and coordinated strikes of Long Range ASCM from there Naval Aviation as well as coordinated employment of both Conventional and Nuclear Powered Assets to attempt to severe the SLOC between US and Europe. It would have been a blood bath as we would have taken significant losses. It was a numbers game and they had the numbers to make it work. Remember that modern scenarios and so the actual time that would be needed for WARSAW Pact forces to overrun Europe was closer to a Month maybe two if not weeks. If you do not care about cost or losses and simply achieving the securing of an objective the USSR would have suceeded - doubt me? Part of there own doctrine had them use Specials at the onset to achieve a hole in NATO lines. Back to the SUBSIM. Essentially the combat philosphy between the USA and USSR in regards to Submarine options is best sumed up as Sniper Vs a Machine gunner (NATO expected a more distant enagement range which takes much more time to develope the solution vice what the Soviets who planned to fight a closer fight (read reactionary) - this is again proven by the number of tubes carried on say an AKULA vs a 688 (8 Vs 4) or 16 Vs 4) in the Improved Akula.
NOW what would be cool and interesting IMHO is this game modded (after the bugs go away) and for you to play as an IJN Sub Captain - MSN there are some cool MSN's for this (Launching Aircraft or Kaitan for example).

[rascal101]

Wow you could spend whole a whole career radioing you position home, or that of the Russions. You could radio home and say stuff. Maybe if you were lucky you could drop spys into enemy territory, now thats familiar but think of the graphics, you know a guy in a rubber dingy, sort of fades into the distance!

You could even say Boo! to Russians, or follow their trawlers around or get caught in their nets. If you were really lucky, and, probably this is more for Russian players, you could have a reactor problem and die slowly while causing a major environmental problem for generations to come.

I cant think why any one would want to play such a game or what the challenge would be.

Cold war = No real event, borring.

WW2 = Real event, lots of action.

[BarjackU977]

+1! I like this idea!

And regarding the cold war era, we already got the excellent Sub Command and Dangerous Waters.
I agree with an earlier comment that such modern sims have a very limited audience, though. This is why I consider myself lucky to have Dangerous Waters.

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too. Make MP like it was in the days of SH2/Destroyer Command. In other words, open the flood gate and allow anything goes !!

JIM

[Tobus]

Destroyer Command 2 please, with gfx engine of SH4 "easily" done.

For modern subs I use Sub Command, wonderfully great modern subsim.

[raifg]

However I have a feeling it would turn out worse then SH4, simply because there would be a lot to implement. And we all know it would be half finished as always.
I think it would be a great idea: nuclear-powered submarines could be the heroes of the fifth episode. We would be able to sail in immersion during a long time. So that the main ennemy would be submarines, which haven't been yet modelized.
That is why I share the point of view of Fat Bhoy Tim: yes, but the game have to be strongly improved before...

[dean_acheson]

Well, EA's Battlefield series went from the 1942 arena to modern day warfare very successfully.

Think of all the cool stuff we would be able to do; hunting for enemy subs under the ice-pack, or breaking through said ice to launch a missile strike!

Point One: That kinda a different genre I think.

Point Two: Missle Launched Sir! Moscow is now gone! Is the game then over, or do you get to blow up an Kilo before sneaking back into the smoking ruins of Norfolk?

The latter just doesn't really appeal to me.

[Mostinius]

Yep, definitely would love to see a Cold War-era sim with SH4 graphics. Yep yep yep yep yep. The real-looking environment makes SH4 the best sub sim available at the moment as far as I'm concerned. But, while I fully respect the people and the technology involved in the Second World War navies and wouldn't wish to seem dismissive of them, I just find modern naval technology more fascinating. And at the risk of being an unpopular noob, I honestly think some of you are being a little blinkered about it...

-ping-
-PING-
whooooooosh
BANG
bubblebubblebubble

:lost:


Let's be honest, though: we can assume that the original poster didn't so much mean a 'simulation of the Cold War' as a simulation of Cold War subs, ships and technology. Iron Budokan put a lot of effort into saying it'd bore him, but that's really a matter of personal preference. Personally I loved DW - or would've done if the 1920s graphics hadn't made it as flat as, well, flat lager. But it strikes me that the very point of a sub sim is the tension: is there someone else out there in the shadowy dark? Are they friend or foe? Have they detected us? Can we risk getting closer? What's that noise? It's the challenge of managing a delicate situation. That's what made 688 Attack Sub/688i/Sub Command so fun. The only thing that limited those games was the strict set of predefined missions: something that SH4 doesn't suffer from. A whole dynamically-generated campaign a la Falcon 4 (but with boats), either set in an actual Cold War (where missions could indeed involve monitoring opponent's assets, ELINT-gathering, special forces deployment, exercises, and so on) or in a hypothetical Cold War-era Hot War, or an escalation from one to the other.

Perhaps maneouvring an SSBN into firing position doesn't sound all that thrilling when you look at it from the point of view of existing sims. But what if the new sim was more a command/management sim? Yes, you can flip to a particular station and take direct control a la SH4 or DW, but with a decent command model and a properly-thought-out time acceleration facility, and good graphics for bridge/periscope/external views (I know they say graphics don't make a game, but it's time for the truth: they are important), I don't think it'd be at all dull. After all (and yes, I know it's a different genre) gamers loved Thief: The Dark Project - the point of which was to sneak around in the shadows and avoid combat.

Give me a new sim. Let me drive a 688, or a Trafalgar, or an Alfa or an Akula. Or an Ohio. Or a Typhoon.

And while we're at it, can we have a decent CVN sim, too? I can't imagine why no-one's ever wanted to try simulating the Nimitz.

:up:

[The General]

Yep, definitely would love to see a Cold War-era sim with SH4 graphics.

Give me a new sim. Let me drive a 688, or a Trafalgar, or an Alfa or an Akula. Or an Ohio. Or a Typhoon.

:up:Thanks for voting everyone! I think the majority of votes are in, just one or two key people have yet to cast their votes.

I honestly thought this Poll was a shoe-in to show that the sub-sim community would love to see a dedicated Cold-War era subsim, I can't believe there are any detractors!:hmm: If a Cold-War SH5 doesn't work, we can always go back to WWII for SH6. We have to at least give it a try, surely!? What do you wanna see, yet another pass at the U-boat war for SH5? But SH3 was (and is) so bloody good! Especially modded with something like GWX.

Saying that, the Poll has another 5 days to run and it's awfully close. Neal, if you're out there, I sure could use your help on this one?!

[The General]

Apparently there's over 1000 members in this Community and I have only 100 votes, where are the other 900+? Come on guys, I need your support!

[Captain Nemo]

Well, I'm of the view that Sub Command with the SCX mod has already covered the cold war era. OK the graphics are not in the SH3/4 class but it has everything else including some classic cold war type custom scenarios. If I want to play cold war stuff I just fire up SC/SCX which has never left my hard drive.

Nemo

[SteamWake]

As others have said 688i did a fair job at emulating that era.

Dangerous Waters may have been a 'flop' but it is a pretty good game set in 'contemporary' times which I still play.

But hey if you want nukes check out defcon :p http://www.everybody-dies.com/about/screenshots.html

[tater]

The complexities required to make a cold war sub sim are such that any technology developed to do such a sim would make a ww2 sim vastly beyond the quality we see in SH4. That alone is reason enough not to abandon ww2---a period when subs actually sank things other than through accidental collisions (don't get me wrong, the Cold War subs are very cool, but I want to go on patrol after patrol sinking things).

Think of the stuff required for such a sim that would improve ww2:

AI submarines that can realistically prosecute attacks on you.

AI aircraft that can realistically prosecute attacks on you (the aircraft have to have a flight model much closer to a flight sim, IMO, for cold war).

Much more complex ship AI (ships must work in concert with aircraft and other ships, not just driving around using their own detection rules, but actually cooperating).

Truely persistant units tracked during the (made up) conflict. Unlike ww2, there are far fewer warships, and they won't be replaced any time soon. If you sink a combatant, and there is just one in the CCCP navy, that's it, it needs to be gone, not ever to be seen again that career.

All that stuff above would vastly improve ww2 sub simulation, and it would be a waste to apply it to a conflict with no actualy fighting IMO.

tater

[the_belgian]

Personally, I think it's time to hit the surface for Destroyer Command 2.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[The General]

All that stuff above would vastly improve ww2 sub simulationAgreed, so why not practice on a all-new sim first? Then create the ultimate WWII subsim with the follow-up?

[Sailor Steve]

I honestly thought this Poll was a shoe-in to show that the sub-sim community would love to see a dedicated Cold-War era subsim, I can't believe there are any detractors!:hmm:
Why? Some people aren't interested in a modern subsim, so obviously they have to be against it; but, they aren't really detractors, are they?

What do you wanna see, yet another pass at the U-boat war for SH5?
Yes.

But SH3 was (and is) so bloody good! Especially modded with something like GWX.
But SH1 was also so bloody good (for its time), and look at how much better SH3/4 are. I can't wait for the next generation of technology.

and it would be a waste to apply it to a conflict with no actualy fighting IMO.
The General, exactly how is that making your argument for you.

Again, a lot of people would like to see a new, better modern subsim; but why does it have to carry the Silent Hunter name for you to like it?

[The General]

Again, a lot of people would like to see a new, better modern subsim; but why does it have to carry the Silent Hunter name for you to like it?Because the Silent Hunter series have been the best subsims and the majority of people (look at the Poll result) would like to see a Cold-war era setting done to the SH 3/4 standard or better. It's called progress and only a fool would attempt to stand in the way of it.

[Kromus]

Im all for modern era sub sim (with SH engine), next ww2 subsim will be just boring for me.

[mookiemookie]

It's called progress and only a fool would attempt to stand in the way of it.

No, it's called a completely different game and completely different setting. One that many people, myself included, have little interest in.

Because the Cold War chronologically followed WW2, doesn't mean that the Silent Hunter series needs to do the same. It's not progress. It's a different game.

[The General]

It's called progress and only a fool would attempt to stand in the way of it.

No, it's called a completely different game and completely different setting. One that many people, myself included, have little interest in.It's a subsim! You can't really be a subsim fan if you don't want to see a Cold-War subsim done by the guys most qualified?

[tater]

It's a different game I wouldn't even consider buying. Not on the bargain shelf for $5.

<SHRUG>

tater

[The General]

It's a different game I wouldn't even consider buying. Not on the bargain shelf for $5.

<SHRUG>

taterMan, you crazy!

[Snowman999]

I honestly thought this Poll was a shoe-in to show that the sub-sim community would love to see a dedicated Cold-War era subsim,

They've been done. As said by others, they're completely different types of games, pretty non-graphical, much more mathematical, much lower interest base amongst gamers. They're for truly hard-core types.

I've looked at waterfall displays for 6-hour stretches, months at a time. Not fun.

I don't think there's going to be an SH5 of any type, but if there was a CW SH5, and it failed, there for sure wouldn't be an SH6.


What do you wanna see, yet another pass at the U-boat war for SH5? But SH3 was (and is) so bloody good! Especially modded with something like GWX.



Even GWX doesn't have wolfpacks. Do U-boats with those and I'll buy it, even though the PTO is my preference.

My dream is to do SH4 again, but correctly, with someone on the team who knows USN customs and traditions. Make it a CO-simulator, not an attack trainer. More command decisions, make the crew "alive", have an XO and a COB to work through, add some RPG elements. SH4 represents the end-of-the-road on how techie you can make a TDC and have anyone but a few grognards care. There is SO much more to command than running approaches.

And I absolutely demand an R&R sequence in any future SHs. With little-umbrella drinks.

[Snowman999]

It's a subsim! You can't really be a subsim fan if you don't want to see a Cold-War subsim done by the guys most qualified?


Sonalysts was far more qualifed by modeling experience (water accoustic physics are HARD) than Ubi, and their games were not very commercially successful. I played them and put them away fairly soon. Modern submarining is not WWII boats with better sensors. It's a different genre with a far more limited interest-base. It's a subset (Cold War) of a subset (subs) of a subset (naval sims) of a subset (sims). And sims in general are the Sick Man of the PC games industry.

[tater]

It's a different game I wouldn't even consider buying. Not on the bargain shelf for $5.

<SHRUG>

taterMan, you crazy!

I never considered buying SH3, either since the Atlantic doesn't interest me much, and playing a U-boat doesn't interest me at all (a DE I could see playing, but it wouldn't hold up for much gameplay).

tater

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

My dream is to do SH4 again, but correctly, with someone on the team who knows USN customs and traditions. Make it a CO-simulator, not an attack trainer. More command decisions, make the crew "alive", have an XO and a COB to work through, add some RPG elements. SH4 represents the end-of-the-road on how techie you can make a TDC and have anyone but a few grognards care. There is SO much more to command than running approaches.

And I absolutely demand an R&R sequence in any future SHs. With little-umbrella drinks.

what he said. Other than approaches, there's little to get you involved.

[Mostinius]

As said by others, they're completely different types of games, pretty non-graphical, much more mathematical, much lower interest base amongst gamers. They're for truly hard-core types.Not sure I buy that. Granted, they're a different type of game. Possibly they could be said to be more mathematical - although given the procedures involved in setting up a WW2 firing solution, I'm not sure in what way.

But 'pretty non-graphical'? The only reason modern-era sub sims are expected to be non-graphical is precisely because every one to date has been non-graphical. There's no logical reason why they couldn't be as graphically pretty and immersive as SH4.

And the idea that a modern-era subsim is for hard-core types would be fine if there weren't so many hardcore simmers playing the WW2 ones. You've only to look at the forums here to know that there are SH3/4 players who're so hardcore I'm not sure I'm even okay to call them 'players'. Yet there're SH players who want a quick blast. But the same could just as well be said for DW and the like: some players want to get deep into the nuts and bolts of modern sub warfare and tactics - others just want to sink stuff.

I've looked at waterfall displays for 6-hour stretches, months at a time. Not fun.Aye, perhaps so - but again, that's entirely based on your own experiences, and while I respect that experience, it's not safe to assume that because simulations of something you've done a lot would bore you it'd necessarily bore other people. While many pilots probably spend time on Flight Sim, it'd probably bore some of them senseless. But speaking for myself, real-life landlubber as I am, the sonar detection/analysis element of DW is the most intriguing part of the sim.

Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

I don't think there's going to be an SH5 of any type, but if there was a CW SH5, and it failed, there for sure wouldn't be an SH6.That stands to reason. If there was a WW2 SH5 and it failed, there wouldn't be an SH6. As for whether there will be an SH5 at all - personally I doubt it anyway. But even so, there's only so much you can really do with a single setting within a given time period. And there wasn't really that long between SH3 and SH4 - and now, with SH4 barely out of Ubi's door, we're already looking toward SH5.

Consider the Total War games. Shogun: Total War was hugely successful in its time. And when Creative Assembly had a bunch of improvements they wanted to make to the model, they had a choice to make. They could either remake the original, and release Shogun 2 - which would no doubt have been hugely popular with those whose interest lay in feudal Japan - or they could branch out and set their new version somewhere else. They went with the latter, and gave us Medieval. When they came up with a whole new engine for the game, we moved to Ancient Rome. And then, most recently, they went back to the popular medieval period for Medieval 2. The point is, all those games could have been about daimyos and shoguns in Japan, with better graphics and gameplay every time. And that would have been popular with some of the player base, and less popular with others. As it is, those who have a great interest in feudal Japan probably feel really frustrated that CA haven't revisited their favourite period. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Ubi, bless them, have given us four excellent sub sims, all based in the same time period with the same technology. But you can't please all the people all the time, and there are those - like me, I admit - who are at least a little disappointed that their favoured time period isn't catered for at all by a firm that obviously has the potential to produce the definitive modern subsim.

[scrag]

Well as far as graphics goes the WWII Stuff is nice as the work is all visual ie using the periscope for approaches or the deck gun for dispatching the odd cripple. Unfortunately the very art of Modern Sub Vs Sub combat occurs at depth and is very dry (read mechanical). Sure there is the firing of weapons and moving around, evasion and etc. Most of the SOnar displays are crap (compared to reality) and the effectiveness of A/C as well as Skimmer Sonar is totally over rated - to the point of being stupid. Even Sonalysts Game was stupid when it came to how easily a modern SSN would be "detected" by the OPFOR. A cold war (hot war) game would have to be based no later than the mid eighties to when it started on the late forties. INMO.
Still think it would be very interesting to see a SH IV spin off with the player to be a IJN Sub Captain.

[tater]

I see the graphic issue immediately. A ww2 sub visually tracked and fired on the target most of the time. Watches were stood on deck, on the surface a fair chucnk of each day. Ships were observed to have been sunk with Mark 1 eyeballs. Small craft were attacked with guns.

A cold war sim puts you underwater. The firing solutions are gathered passively, no eyeballes except looking at a CRT. Surface watches? Putting in to port. Kills? Not observed, the proper data gathered.

Unless you play with all kinds of externals on all the time in a 3d person view the pretty view would be entirely inside the boat.

tater

[cali03boss]

I'm reading this over and many of you are talking about immersion issues...that you don't feel like you're commanding until you're running down a convoy.

Did you ever consider that your crew gain experience by you just calling drills on them? Making them work longer? Diving, surfacing, running silent, battle stations, repair crew, changing course....all does its part.

[tater]

No, it could be immersive, but not terribly interesting.

Like having an Olympic Skiing game where you do simulated leg lifts and other strength based stuff, but never actually race ;)

tater

[mookiemookie]

Someone else already mentioned this, but it bears repeating with the "appeal to realism" talk. A lot of the technology and specs on nuke boats and Cold War operations are still classified. It'd naturally take somewhat of a leap of imagination to create a sim to fill in those gaps, and that alone may turn off some of those who are looking for a hardcore experience.

[silentrunner]

People are saying that the Cold War era subs were boring but it doesn't have to be completly true one of the most popular flight sims is Ace Combat and it is completly untrue. There could be a storyline where there was a big naval war and you could sink other subs as an SSN or destroy stuff as an SSBN.

[Snowman999]

Not sure I buy that. Granted, they're a different type of game. Possibly they could be said to be more mathematical - although given the procedures involved in setting up a WW2 firing solution, I'm not sure in what way.


The procedures in a WWII firing solution are trivial compared to passive TMA, use of narrow-band analysis, Doppler, and programming homing torpedo tactics. Basic, Sub School-level TMA requires intuitive use of trig; WWII was a visual, Mo-Board fire-control. Modern FC requires a long, intense, highly-technical ID phase that WWII didn't have. That faint 57Hz signal fading in and out somewhere north of 50,000 yards away might be a Victor I or it might be nothing. Determining which is hours and hours long . . .


But 'pretty non-graphical'? The only reason modern-era sub sims are expected to be non-graphical is precisely because every one to date has been non-graphical. There's no logical reason why they couldn't be as graphically pretty and immersive as SH4.


I say non-graphical because they take place submerged. You never fight surfaced. Most of the time your opponent is also submerged. You see interior compartments, not glorious sunsets and transparent water. Modern warfare is sensors, not eyeballs.

And the idea that a modern-era subsim is for hard-core types would be fine if there weren't so many hardcore simmers playing the WW2 ones.

But they aren't that hardcore because to date there hasn't been a sub sim on the level of complexity as a Falcon was for flight. WWII sub driving was much, much harder than any sim has tried to show.

That said, there are some people here who would buy one. Just not enough to make it commercially feasible given the level of modeling required. SH4 has lots of graphical code investment by the team, but the environmental, sensor, and tactical feedback load is actually pretty light compared to what an all-passive combat environment takes. SH4's variables are in files moddable with text editors--because it's a visual, inside-the-horizon environment with very little automation of function. And because it's manual by the player it's pretty easy to learn to play by newbies. TMA, even at very easy levels, is hard work. Took me a whole summer on stupid-study to get the basics down.

You've only to look at the forums here to know that there are SH3/4 players who're so hardcore I'm not sure I'm even okay to call them 'players'.

The ones who haven't gone to sea and done this stuff for real are exactly that. As far as diesel boats go include me, and I've been studying WWII USN sub ops since the 1960s, almost from the day I straddled a MK14 in the forward room of USS Bluegill while a very greasy TM3 in a Santa suit gave me my present.

Yet there're SH players who want a quick blast. But the same could just as well be said for DW and the like: some players want to get deep into the nuts and bolts of modern sub warfare and tactics - others just want to sink stuff.

I agree, and there have been numerous modern SSN sims published. None have blown the doors off and they were in significantly more favorable eras for PC games in general. As we move farther away from the Cold War there is less and less interest. USA college freshmen this year were born in 1989. I doubt one in five even knows there used to be someplace called East Germany.

If there was a WW2 SH5 and it failed, there wouldn't be an SH6. As for whether there will be an SH5 at all - personally I doubt it anyway.

We agree there. I think there is good reason to believe that SH4 is a failure from Ubi's POV.


But even so, there's only so much you can really do with a single setting within a given time period. And there wasn't really that long between SH3 and SH4 - and now, with SH4 barely out of Ubi's door, we're already looking toward SH5.


Perhaps because some (many?) of us percieve SH4 as underwhelming.


As it is, those who have a great interest in feudal Japan probably feel really frustrated that CA haven't revisited their favourite period. You can't please all of the people all of the time.


I don't think the analogy holds. That series, in whatever era, is fundamentally about land armies with muscle-weapons in a terrain-centric model with a macro world-model overhead. If they had gone from Shogun to WWI trench warfare it would be a closer comparison to SH4 and a nuke-based Cold War SH5. Not even the move from prop planes to jets was as far a leap as WWII DEs to SSNs. Maybe wooden ships-of-the-line to Teddy's Great White Fleet--it was that big of a jump and it happened in fifteen years.


Ubi, bless them, have given us four excellent sub sims, all based in the same time period with the same technology. But you can't please all the people all the time, and there are those - like me, I admit - who are at least a little disappointed that their favoured time period isn't catered for at all by a firm that obviously has the potential to produce the definitive modern subsim.


Have to disagree one more time. I think Ubi's team would be incapable of doing the advanced environmental modeling an SSN game would need. Sonalysts had a head-start from their classified work. Ubi's team right now is about pretty graphics, not deeply mathematical real-time physics. And being Eastern European I also think they just don't "get it" enough in NATO naval terms. Ubi management's recent funding policies don't indicate they would be willing to put the team together that could get it.

[tater]

But any storyline is by definition a fantasy.

I'm interested in the naval history of ww2. To the extent I can understand more of the history with simulation, it interests me.

Take flight sims. Without having played flight sims (or if you were actually a fighter pilot in RL), you can read every book written about ww2 air combat, and you frankly don't have the first clue when they start talking about dogfights (I had read a huge library of such books before I ever played a flight sim, and after a few years of such sims, I understand exactly what they are talking about when recounting engagements in a way I never did before).

So sure, if I was really interesting in cold war subs, knowing more might jazz me, but I'm not, so it doesn't.

<shrug>

tater

[mookiemookie]

So sure, if I was really interesting in cold war subs, knowing more might jazz me, but I'm not, so it doesn't.

<shrug>

tater
I think that's what a lot of it is for players like me is. If it interests me, I'd like to simulate it and dive into what it was like. When I read recounts of WW2 sub combat, in both the Pacific and Atlantic theatres, it makes me wish for a more in depth simulation where I can see how I stack up against real captains when given the same set of constraints, all while knowing what I know about the history and how the boats operated. When I read about Cold War stuff, it's like "eh, yeah, that's nice" but it doesn't inspire me to want to go try it out myself, as I never really read about the nuts and bolts of the equipment used and don't have a lot of interest in doing so.

[Pablo]

Hi!

I think Dangerous Waters and the various Harpoon flavors pretty much have the modern and Cold War submarine and naval combat stuff locked up - at least there won't be lots reason to argue about "realism" because I'd guess the "real" info is mostly classified - so let's think about where Silent Hunter has gone so far:
Silent Hunter: U.S. in the Pacific
Silent Hunter II: Germany in the Atlantic, with a companion Destroyer Command for human vs. human.
Silent Hunter III: Do-over of Germany in the Atlantic
Silent Hunter IV: Do-over of U.S. in the PacificI think it's time for another do-over, but this time have one sim that allows you to take either side in a campaign: Allies (U.S., Britain, Soviet Union) or Axis (Germany, Japan). Throw in player-controlled destroyers for all sides, modifiable AI, and realistic flight models and behavior for the aircraft and I think you have a winner - an "IL-2" for World War II naval combat.

My $0.02

Pablo

[ReallyDedPoet]

I think Dangerous Waters and the various Harpoon flavors pretty much have the modern and Cold War submarine and naval combat stuff locked up
Yes they do :yep:

My $0.02


:up::up:


RDP

[Blacklight]

This game would be Dangerous Waters II, except I don't think it would be anywhere near as hardcore as Dangerous Waters is.. I would have a feeling that UBI would dumb it down a little for the mass public, but I imagine the visuals would be stunning.

[subsimlee]

I agree to a SH-V but not cold war based, I was there in the mid sixties and it never had a vinegar stroke...TAKE THE WONDERFUL GRAPHICS OF SH-IV AND GO BACK TO THE BATTLE OF THE ATLANTIC !!! It was what a lot of us wanted prior to the UBI announcement that "4" would be about the U.S. Pacific campaign. Face it, it was SH-3 that re-kindled our love of the sub sim..ala DAS BOOT! A polished version of 4 applied to the stucture of 3 would be so immersive as to become a legend of game/simulation software. LETS GO BACK TO THE FUTURE!!!

[jazman]

Imagine the heart-stopping excitement of a Cold War simlulation as you follow a Russian sub around, being a hole in the water and following it around as it performs its own secret mission of parking itself off the coast of the United States monitoring electronic traffic and then you get to follow the Russian sub back to its home base being a hole in the water and what pulse-pounding heart-stopping action that would be as you follow the Russian sub being a hole in the water I'm about to nut just thinking about it better take my blood pressure medicine I don't know if I can take the nervous tension of following a Russian sub around while I'm a hole in the water I mean it just doesn't get any more blood-pounding nerve-wracking that that, now does it?


You hide your excitement well.

WWI.

WWII subs AND ASW.

[hellas1]

Hello all, :|\\

I was just enjoying SH3 & SH4 and thought,
"What ever happened to WWI?"

I happen to highly enjoy WWI era tech.
It was both a kind of primative and avant guarde era, per se.
Airplanes, radio, Submarines, torpedo's, machine guns, etc.

I know this German dude is publishing a WWI sim mentioned on this forum.
I don't know how far he'll go. No disrespect ever meant however.

Ubisoft should aim for a WWI subsim. Such an era and not really covered.
:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
Goodbye now, Bis Spate, Adieu (3 main players of WWI) hellas1 :|\\

[geetrue]

I don't understand all of the complaints about the cold war not being exciting.

I was there from 1963 till 1971 ... USS Salmon SS-573 and USS Ethan Allen SSBN 608 and the USS Sam Houston SSBN 609.

I made a North Pac run on the Salmon that would curdle your ears ... 10 miles off the coast of Kamchata when we were called back to refuel on the same day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas November 1963. We all thought we were going to war on that one.

Boomers were a lot of fun too ... we ate a lot of good chow, saw all of the Mission Impossible, Star Trek and Clint Eastwood movies we could, sometimes we saw them more than once. We always knew when we were coming back so we knew the exact day called half way day. Half way day parties were known to get out of hand with a little smuggled vodka in the koolaid.

We had casino night all proceeds went to the ships recreation fund, but I think they cheated using Phillipinos for the black jack table. We had a local disc jockey do the news for us everyday. I was that disc jockey for two patrols. We had our own ships rag, that's what they call the newspaper.

We had family grams, radio even came into sonar and sang my family gram one time, "Your bird is dead" My wife had bought two birds and one of them died so that was the best way she could tell me.

A lot of excitment was available during the cold war. How could I ever forget being in the Med travelling along at 4 knots about 200' just outside of the sea lanes off the coast of North Africa when I heard a hissing sound, Russia nuc's sound just like that, he came straight at us just off the port bow and kept on going. We had lots of other contacts to report and the sound was gone before I could find it again. I asked the chief what to do and he said, "What the hey ... it kept on going they'll never know". You see we only had to report contacts that we had classified.

I almost forgot the whole Italian navy passed over the top of us one time too. They were pinging and everything and they just kept on going.

Yep, the cold war was really great for me ... I made it back. :up:

Misewell make SH5 for a space run, perhaps that moon off of Saturn, the one that has water on it, could use a space sim.

Make a modern sub sim that would have China, Russia, France, United Kingdom, USA get into each others stuff and cause a melt down ... A sim so good the Navy War College could use it.

In fact get the US Navy to fund it for a recruiting device ...

Yeah, I like that a game developer that is use to cost over runs ... :yep:

[nattydread]

You'll never get a chance to fire a shot during the Cold-War Era. Everything is stalking, hiding and photographing.

Not to mention, I dont think anyone will do it better than Sonalyst! Cold-War Era will likly be more systems based since you wont spend much time on the surface. It''ll be your face in a panel reading, sweeping and plotting.

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Hi!

I think Dangerous Waters and the various Harpoon flavors pretty much have the modern and Cold War submarine and naval combat stuff locked up - at least there won't be lots reason to argue about "realism" because I'd guess the "real" info is mostly classified - so let's think about where Silent Hunter has gone so far:

Silent Hunter: U.S. in the Pacific
Silent Hunter II: Germany in the Atlantic, with a companion Destroyer Command for human vs. human.
Silent Hunter III: Do-over of Germany in the Atlantic
Silent Hunter IV: Do-over of U.S. in the PacificI think it's time for another do-over, but this time have one sim that allows you to take either side in a campaign: Allies (U.S., Britain, Soviet Union) or Axis (Germany, Japan). Throw in player-controlled destroyers for all sides, modifiable AI, and realistic flight models and behavior for the aircraft and I think you have a winner - an "IL-2" for World War II naval combat.

My $0.02

Pablo Amen to that. I think that IL-2 was such a hit was that you could play on all side of the war and not this one sided crap. SH4 was almost a flop because its a do over of SH2. If the next Silent Hunter was like this I'd by it but with player operated DDs the name might have to be changed.I'm not calling SH4 the end of the line.

[ryanwigginton]

The problem I see with incorporating surface vessels is that it always seems the more they try to model the less accuracy you get. It has the danger of decending into a Battlefield 2-esque action game. Personally, I'd rather have all the work put into say one sub model so they get it right on the mark, rather than 10 rushed with detail left out. I fear this is what will happen when people crave for more vessels.

[ryoga_77]

A cold war game would be rather bleak,the only sub kill I know of is the sinking of the Belgrano by the Royal Navy in the Falklands conflict. In my opinion Ubi would be best off to make SH5 a WW1 U-boat sim with a dynamic campign. It’s been done only once before to the best of my knowledge and should bear similarity to SH3 but be distinct enough to stand it’s own ground. If that ‘s not an option then I suggest a game which is essentially SH3 with SH4 graphics , ai co-operative wolfpacks , a message system which informs of war progress and orders being issued dynamically whilst on patrol , a pacific campaign with the proper patrol grids , milkcows and resupply options.

P.S. Yes I know this sounds like a GWX clone but this is a testament to all the GWX team has accomplished.

[ryoga_77]

A cold war game would be rather bleak,the only sub kill I know of is the sinking of the Belgrano by the Royal Navy in the Falklands conflict. In my opinion Ubi would be best off to make SH5 a WW1 U-boat sim with a dynamic campign. It’s been done only once before to the best of my knowledge and should bear similarity to SH3 but be distinct enough to stand it’s own ground. If that ‘s not an option then I suggest a game which is essentially SH3 with SH4 graphics , ai co-operative wolfpacks , a message system which informs of war progress and orders being issued dynamically whilst on patrol , a pacific campaign with the proper patrol grids , milkcows and resupply options.

P.S. Yes I know this sounds like a GWX clone but this is a testament to all the GWX team has accomplished.

[cfox]

I would agree with those who suggest the idea of a WWI sim. Rather than going forward in time and getting very reliable equipment (theoretically?) it would add to the general experience to work with more primitive equipment and have to give far more consideration to the reliability of engines etc.

I also note that there has not been a British sub . It would be nice if a subsim could be designed for WWI era modelling all the major participants.

[The General]

"This one's gonna be close!" - Jones (Sonar) in The Hunt for Red October

I'm sure a lot of top secret stuff went down in this era and the makers of a cold-war SH5 could devise a very interesting, exciting and dynamic campaign. Think of the possiblities!

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/3135/redoctobermainzh5.th.jpg (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=redoctobermainzh5.jpg)

[Payoff]

I like the idea of an all encompassing WWII sim. They already have the majority of models needed. Maybe SH5 could focus a little more on expanding the sub interiors with walkable compartments & active crew moving about. We spend 99.9% of our time onboard a sub, so give us a little more to do on board, like decipher a message, random breakdowns that need attention or morale boosters/training for the crew that actually manifest into a gain in performance. I think they are off to an amazing start, but just think how much more can be done in a WWII submarine sim.

[robbierob2005]

Back to the Atlantic I say! Uboots!!!

[Mostinius]

Most of the SOnar displays are crap (compared to reality)I see the graphic issue immediately. (...) A cold war sim puts you underwater. The firing solutions are gathered passively, no eyeballes except looking at a CRT. Surface watches? Putting in to port. Kills? Not observed, the proper data gathered.
Unless you play with all kinds of externals on all the time in a 3d person view the pretty view would be entirely inside the boat.Well, I admit I'm not so hardcore as to reject external views - in fact for me, illogical though it might sound, I think they're essential to maintain immersion. So yes, I'd want external views similar to SH4's. Yes, there's an argument about whether the external view should show what's actually out there or just what you think's out there - but DW allowed for a switch between those options which I think deals with that question.

But also there's the graphics of the boat itself. Scrag says that sonar displays look crap. Well, I've never used a real scope so I don't know (which is to the makers' advantage: most players won't ever have used sonar for real). But the simple answer to that is to make the displays look better. In fact, allowing for certain things on modern boats being classified, I think a properly modelled interior, which you can move around, would be essential. And there's plenty of other work required, too - as Payoff suggests in relation to yet another WW2 sim:

decipher a message, random breakdowns that need attention or morale boosters/training for the crew that actually manifest into a gain in performance...there are plenty of things the game could require us to do on board even when we're not setting up firing solutions.

I seem to be turning into the Cold War era devil's advocate here. It's not that I'm that desperate to see a CW SH5, so much as that I really don't understand the objections that're being raised: Cold War sim would give us 'nothing to do' - yet Dangerous Waters/Sub Command have plenty to do; or the suggestion that a CW-era sim has to have poor graphics - but there's no reason for that other than that they always have. Most of the arguments against only really amount to "I wouldn't be interested in it" - which is fine, since after all my argument isn't much more than "I would".

[Captain Nemo]

Because the Silent Hunter series have been the best subsims and the majority of people (look at the Poll result) would like to see a Cold-war era setting done to the SH 3/4 standard or better. It's called progress and only a fool would attempt to stand in the way of it.

The poll result may have looked different when you wrote your post but as it presently stands 80 support your view and a total of 92 are against counting both of the other options together.

As mentioned previously, Sub Command (especially with SCX) and Dangerous Waters in my view have the cold war era wrapped up.

Nemo

[GOZO]

Well with a war that never came it could be a challenge with a dynamic imagined campaign based on the Soviet Unions ambitions during these days.

Middle East, Korea, etc etc.

Why not! Thinking caps ON.

OB

[Javelin]

Anybody's who's played Red Storm Rising on the C64 knows the potential of such a sim. Trust me, it's gonna be awesome!:rock:



I still believe Red Storm Rising is one of the finest computer games ever. I always hoped that someone would bring it back. just think how great it could updated on todays machines, not just eye candy as they did with CAW.

[The General]

Anybody's who's played Red Storm Rising on the C64 knows the potential of such a sim. Trust me, it's gonna be awesome!:rock:



I still believe Red Storm Rising is one of the finest computer games ever. I always hoped that someone would bring it back. just think how great it could updated on todays machines, not just eye candy as they did with CAW.Amen to that Brother! :up:

[oscar19681]

I would love to see some modern subs with the current engine. I do have some interest in DW but the grafics really dont apeal to me that much and the lack of a 3-d interieur holds me from buying it.

[StkNRdr]

SH5?? I don't think I can get on my knree again to UBI to fix another game that will be messed up out of the box.

[Trout]

Cold war yes, but only in the time period before wire guided torps and sensors so good that you never need to use a periscope.

I dont want to be glued to a sensor screen.....

[Trout]

Tater is correct.

However, if the game were set in (lets say) 1955-60 in the Pacific, then it could basically be a mod of SH4.

1) Replace the Japanese ships and planes with Russian/chinese ones
2) Diesel subs only, but with snorkels, much longer battery life, and deep diving capability (hmmm....maybe you could earn a nuke sub if you wanted?)
3) More accurate sonar and the ability to do TMA underwater
4) Combat against enemy subs under the ice pack (if you want those missions)

Come to think of it, you can ALMOST play SH3 this way with the most advanced german sub.

There would be a large amount of new art work required, but not much coding. Properly marketed it could be a fun expansion pack that makes sombody $$$

Trout


I see the graphic issue immediately. A ww2 sub visually tracked and fired on the target most of the time. Watches were stood on deck, on the surface a fair chucnk of each day. Ships were observed to have been sunk with Mark 1 eyeballs. Small craft were attacked with guns.

A cold war sim puts you underwater. The firing solutions are gathered passively, no eyeballes except looking at a CRT. Surface watches? Putting in to port. Kills? Not observed, the proper data gathered.

Unless you play with all kinds of externals on all the time in a 3d person view the pretty view would be entirely inside the boat.

tater

[SilentOtto]

My thoughts are that Ubisoft or any other company who wants to win this niche battle, should do a solid, stable, physically accurate and easily modifiable platform, with the whole world mapped (some zones in more detail than others...) so that later, the company (or the community) could develop expansions to play different theaters with different boats and objectives. Firms probably will never be too happy with the sales for hardcore subsims, but maybe this way they could make a base framework with everything more pluggable than it is now. Anyway it's a matter of personal taste, experience and opinion which theaters you prefer. And as for me, I simply don't care about almost any other theaters than wwii, and most if we are talking about sub sims. My war history library (about 100 books, 25 about subs) is all wwii related. I've been reading about that for 25 years. So I would never be a customer for a cold war sub sim, or nukes or anything like that. But I would surely buy a new subsim with those premises I mentioned, and every expansion which was wwii related, even if they were expensive. I am getting tired of buying messy game upgrades like shiv was for shiii... If shiii had been designed with modularity in mind, ubi or anyone else could mod whatever is not right in the original models, and new theaters would just be a matter of research and work. Beacuse talking about historic theaters, there are many flavours... What about a b.c. ambiented, greek history wooden sub sim to sink the persian ships like they tried to do?

[Snakeeyes]

I want it but guys... Cold War is old news. It may be MY favorite time for military sims but lets face it, it's AMAZING SHIV was produced in an era of pinhead teenagers and their shoot-em-up consoles. Take what you can get. I think SHIV will be IT for a long time. Hell... SHIV may just be the last good sub sim to come out until another graphics revolution.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of young buyers don't care about that era or their lib parents won't TEACH them about it.


Be a good student of history and not forget about the cold warriors game developers!:know::up:

[senecalalbrecht]

Here's my thoughts:

just like folks playing D&D or the 40,000 AD battles, I'd stay away from Cold War only because its all hypothetical.

Here's what I"d want:

An all-encompassing SH-5 would focus on
-Atlantic theater
-command either a U-Boat, an Allied Destroyer or an Allied Aircraft patrol.
or conversely
-create a new sim modelled on IL-2 called "Air War over the Atlantic"
-Think about how much fun it would be:
1) fly a Condor or HE-111 and attack Convoy PQ-17 on the way to murmansk
2) command a Beaufighter or Mosquito and go head to with some of the Ju-188s of KG 40 over Biscay or vice-versa
3) command a Liberator and seek out a Type IX-D with your radar and then drop depth charges amidst a barrage of flak from its 20mms.
or
1) do all the things you could do in DC but do it better.
(DC got almost hardly any play and needs to be relaunched in some form.)

That's my thoughts.

-Karl Albrecht
Commander, U-111
currently on patrol in mid-Atlantic, March 1943, Atlantik Kampaign, Mission 18

[NightCrawler-SimHQ]

As probably other people have already stated, I cannot possibly see Silent Hunter moving away from World War II. Why do I say that? because that is the only era where the submarine was actually utilized in battle on the high seas for several years. There is absolutely no other timeframe in OUR history where the submarine had anywhere near the combat or known naval skermishes. After WWII, the submarine moved to a more "deterrent" factor and up until the "cold war" they were vertually unknown until the conception of the Trident missile.

So to move the Silent Hunter 5 series up to the "cold war" era, would mean that the developers would have to invent or fictionize a WWIII, or treat us with something on the line of what Jane's 688i Hunter/Killer gave us. Basically a never ending tale of hide/seek with the Russians, Chinese, Iranians, or whoever the developers invent for us to combat with.

But since the SH series has somewhat been based on historical data and feel, I cannot see the series go away from WWII. And I know they have accomplished both sides in this game, except as a Japanese Submariner! :huh:

[Redwine]

Silent Hunter is a WW2 saga... i think so will be a big mistake to make a nuke SH V.

[swifty]

It seems like most everyone relates DW to a CW sim but it is more of a modern world sim. I would like to see a 1950 - 1970 Cold War Sim. Being realistic I don't see it being like a WWII where 90% of the game is search and destroy. The the game could still be very rewarding and filled with CIA espionage. In a campaign a goal would be to prevent a nuclear war or become a what if and fight it out. Here are some mission I see could be rewarding.


Transit to Russian/US ports and shadow and identify track boomers.
Support the Cuban missile blockade.
Tap telephone lines (transatlantic and line in Russian ports.)
Support conflicts N. Korea, Vietnam, Falklands.
Test new subs, take the Nautilus on her maiden voyage, first trip to N. Pole.
Evade russian/US fast attack subs in boomer.
Launch/test nuclear missile.
Support US space program.
Command K-19, USS Scorpion and bring sailors home after disaster.
Track and shadow US CVG.
Recover lost US bombs, (Men of Honor (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0203019/))

[Rockin Robbins]

A submarine is meant to hunt and destroy targets. Since none of that took place in the cold war, and because the time period is too recent for animosity to have dissipated, I believe a cold war Silent Hunter would be a yawner. I also think that the state of submarine simulation as modeled is pretty close to the highest possible given the current state of hardware. So...

On to something completely different! We could go to WWI, but WWII had such variety of submarines and nations with submarines. I would model both German and American subs. The English, French and Japanese had subs that were very interesting as well. But all that would duplicate present efforts, so lets load up a curve-ball (apologies to non-Americans for that obscure metaphor).

I would propose an on-line game with cooperatively crewed boats, one player per crewmember (or one player per compartment in some cases like torpedo rooms). Unfilled slots would have to be able to be manned by AI NPC's (non-player characters). Wolfpacks could be modeled with multiple cooperating boats and the targets could also be manned by players too if they wanted to do some really fancy footwork. This game would incorporate both Atlantic and Pacific theaters, or could be sold as two separate games, I'll buy 'em both. It really should use the British, French and Japanese subs too.

I think this is the idea that will sell enough units to finance the next generation of submarine simulations. My bill will be in the mail. I'll accept free games as payment. :lol:

[mookiemookie]

I would propose an on-line game with cooperatively crewed boats, one player per crewmember (or one player per compartment in some cases like torpedo rooms). Unfilled slots would have to be able to be manned by AI NPC's (non-player characters). Wolfpacks could be modeled with multiple cooperating boats and the targets could also be manned by players too if they wanted to do some really fancy footwork. This game would incorporate both Atlantic and Pacific theaters, or could be sold as two separate games, I'll buy 'em both. It really should use the British, French and Japanese subs too.

Time Compression. I don't want to stare at the screen for an hour while someone plots an intercept or an approach.

[Reinhard Hardegen]

There is still lots of ground (or should I say Sea) to cover with the WWII theme. SH1 was US boats in the Picific, SH2 German U-boats, SH3 upgrade to SH2, SH4 upgrade to SH1, I thank that SH5 if there is one should now try "SH V - Sensuikan!" lets try the Japanese side of the war. There were at lest 7 I-Boats that were in the US west coast, I-25 even bombed Oregon not once but twice.

I thank a game could come from this side of the war, or even let the player choose his country, US, German, British or Japanese submarines.

Just my two cents worth...

[Sailor Steve]

I thank a game could come from this side of the war, or even let the player choose his country, US, German, British or Japanese submarines..
Something against the Dutch?:rotfl:

No, I agree, variety would be nice; kind of hard to implement, at least on the same scale as SH4, what with the interiors, voices etc. Still, the future looks good.

[Snowman999]

However, if the game were set in (lets say) 1955-60 in the Pacific, then it could basically be a mod of SH4.

1) Replace the Japanese ships and planes with Russian/chinese ones


Those calling for a CW sim ought to research Soviet capabilities a bit more. 1955-60 the USN OWNED the Pacific. The surge in Red Navy capability can be directly traced to the humiliation of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and it was the mid-70s before the load of Vietnam budgets and the massive spending by the USSR made the competition interesting. That said, they always concentrasted on the Atlantic, not the Pacific. Stopping Reforger was the ballgame defensively, and protecting their boomers in the bastion was the offensive mandatory. The Pacific was a sideshow.

Chinese still don't have a blue-water threat, let alone in 1955.

[Blackswan]

I would like to see SH5 set in world War2 USN IJN RN German subs also controlable surface ships destroyers Escorts able to control different stations it may need tobe two seperate programs along the lines of SH2 & DC but with top dollar graphics like GWX SH4 also with real good game play
i just like WW2 Naval Sims modern naval warfare its just lock on click fire & your dead push button warfare is just not me i like to smell the cordite diesel

regards Blackswan:arrgh!:

[gonzosts]

My system is dual booted with win98se just so I can continue to play 688i.

As a former bubblehead I just love reliving the six hours sitting broadband doing squares at (xx-xx-xx) and listening to fish fart and whales F...having fun. Can't forget the Panamaian frieghters with the steady flut, flut , flut (turn on the speaker and make up a rap song to the beat). To have a sim with the SH4 engine and Cold War water displacment devices I think I'd hang a role of tolent paper above my monitor, put on a poopie suite, turn out the lights except a red bulb, plug in the bosse noise canceling headphones and for extra raelizim, have my wife come into my office and fart and then run out.

I would really enjoy playing a sim with the sinerios the 688i and Subcommand had with a SH4 engine. And as mentioned have both sub and target game play abilities. Now I have to go play with myself:up:

zero bubble.

[Snowman999]

. . . come into my office and fart and then run out.


You stood watch with Senior Chief Ransel too?!

[hachiman]

Back to the U-Boat war for me personally.
Would love for AI Wolfpacks to be added!!

[gonzosts]

. . . come into my office and fart and then run out.


You stood watch with Senior Chief Ransel too?!

I didn't have a SC Ransel but I do recall a Med run, a five foot condom, one month of every ST, TM, and RM filling it with natral gas, and then popping it in the Goat Locker....

*note: The Goat Locker is not air tight!!:oops:

[tonibamestre]

This is what I would like to expect guys,a complex electronics and sonars systems in combination with excelent graphics. Lets vote for the cutting edge under the pole!!

YEAAAAH

[ChristopherT]

C, Let's set any SH5 in space! Perhaps the vacuum will finally put a halt to it! :-? I wouldn't mind if Ubisoft came up with a cold-war simulator, but I do think it's time to put to rest the Silent Hunter part. Like Star Trek (which barely struggled through the first five movies and sank the other!) if Ubisoft keeps up the pace, we'll be discussing whether or not the franschise has jumped the shark when SH10 comes out and won't run on the lastest 1 tetrahertz computers.

Christopher

[Reinhard Hardegen]

Just my thought in a Japanese theme:

http://members.cox.net/tsv_graphics/Sensuikan!.jpg

But still having the use of all Boats would be nice, even the Dutch! :rotfl:

[silentrunner]

Cold war yes, but only in the time period before wire guided torps and sensors so good that you never need to use a periscope.

I dont want to be glued to a sensor screen.....Haven;t you ever seen The Hunt for Red October Tom Clancy is one of the most best selling authors ever and none of his books are true Being in a modern sub isn't boring in some ways it seems more exciting carrying nuchlear weapons and subs chasing subs there is allways the threat of a missile strike.

[THE_MASK]

Boring , boring , boring .

[p3cewo]

I think it merely boils down to what you want in a "sim". If you are the WW era "Historically Battle Accurate", grass roots hunter/killer type of player, a CW sim would probably put you to sleep, as any actual confrontations/incidents/encounters between the "sides", where rarely ever made public and rarely ever involved any fire-fights. Unlike the WW shooting war conditions, during random CW encounters, weapons were of course not often granted "FREE". I was a CW airdale and for me, sitting on a "cold" pattern at zero dark thirty in the morning still beat the crap out of any post CW mission I ever flew. Because of the "what if" and unknown and the fact there was a defined "real enemy", at least to us.

But, if your one that would enjoy a fully modeled/accurate sim that would play the "what if" game, a CW sim with the graphics capability of todays PCs would absolutely "rock" IMHO. They did a great job turning Red Storm Rising and The Hunt for Red October into some pretty great sims for thier time and PC capabilitity. Clancy played the "what if" very nicely. Throw in the Harpoon @Three Sixty series, Dangerous Waters, ect.. which were pretty darn technically and tactically detailed/modeled, and one may see a TON of great missions that "could have" happened. With a 'lil imagination I think a CW SH5 could have a lot of possibilities. :lol:

Either way the challenge is there. Examining and evaluating the data you get from your available sources is the same concept. Positioning your boat is the same concept. Using your environment is the same concept. Only thing I see different is the types of "tools" available. Bottom line from both eras I think remains the same?? Detect... Localize... Classify... Track.. and IF directed.. ATTACK.

[Adriatico]

Cold war = No real event, borring.

WW2 = Real event, lots of action.

True, right and true...:yep: There are events, space, variety and atmosphere for another three simulations with Kriegsmarine.

And pole questions are not set in correct way...
If you change the first and second question - who would say "I can not patrol without a cold war ???"

[SnowCajun]

I'm so happy with the USA vs Japan as it was in WWII that I can't see straight.. This is my ideal game, perfect for me and what I've read about for years and years. I would, however, like to see an addon for SH4, I'm rather disappointed that there are no Japanese subs to fight against, or have to avoid. I'd like to see us be able to take prisoners also. I'd also like to see this game refined, it doesn't make sense at times to have to hit a small ship 40 times with your 5" gun to sink it, and only 6 times, as it's been in the past, for a large ship to go down.

To me a refinement of SH4 would be perfect, along with a great tutorial for manual shooting. I think the key thing for me is to see what we have taken to the next level of refinement.

The cold war really isn't fighting, this is the best of the best of fighting. I read somewhere on this web forum that there'd probably never be a 1.4 patch. I hope that's not true, I don't understand people who spit games out like this and then don't support them. Anyway, my vote is "NO" for the cold war and "yes" for an addon for what we have.

SnowCajun

[denis_469]

I opffer UBI made SH V with soviet submarine sim. Reasons:
1 - soviet submarines was made yet
2 - company was made
3 - many data about war in soviet submarine.
I think, that UBI can made new part SH vary fast with including russian moders who can made part's.

[Swede]

I opffer UBI made SH V with soviet submarine sim. Reasons:
1 - soviet submarines was made yet
2 - company was made
3 - many data about war in soviet submarine.
I think, that UBI can made new part SH vary fast with including russian moders who can made part's.

Good idea comrade. I liked skipping the Akula in Sub Command.

[Adriatico]

...I would also suggest Lord of the Rings and Oblivion in a cold war, british programers would easily create spy-orcs.:shifty:

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

I'm so happy with the USA vs Japan as it was in WWII that I can't see straight.. This is my ideal game, perfect for me and what I've read about for years and years. I would, however, like to see an addon for SH4, I'm rather disappointed that there are no Japanese subs to fight against, or have to avoid. I'd like to see us be able to take prisoners also. I'd also like to see this game refined, it doesn't make sense at times to have to hit a small ship 40 times with your 5" gun to sink it, and only 6 times, as it's been in the past, for a large ship to go down.

To me a refinement of SH4 would be perfect, along with a great tutorial for manual shooting. I think the key thing for me is to see what we have taken to the next level of refinement.

The cold war really isn't fighting, this is the best of the best of fighting. I read somewhere on this web forum that there'd probably never be a 1.4 patch. I hope that's not true, I don't understand people who spit games out like this and then don't support them. Anyway, my vote is "NO" for the cold war and "yes" for an addon for what we have.

SnowCajun

It does when you consider the previous way was ridiculously inaccurate.

[Mostinius]

I think it merely boils down to what you want in a "sim". If you are the WW era "Historically Battle Accurate", grass roots hunter/killer type of player, a CW sim would probably put you to sleep (...)

But, if your one that would enjoy a fully modeled/accurate sim that would play the "what if" game, a CW sim with the graphics capability of todays PCs would absolutely "rock" IMHO. That's it, exactly. It makes no sense to argue there shouldn't be a Cold War-era sim "because it's boring", when that's patently a viewpoint that depends entirely on what the individual finds boring. Some (including me) would buy a CW-era sim, some wouldn't; just as some would buy another WW2 sim, and some wouldn't. The fact is there simply aren't any arguments for or against either that aren't simply based on what each person prefers. As you say:

Bottom line from both eras I think remains the same?? Detect... Localize... Classify... Track.. and IF directed.. ATTACK.

[Mostinius]

I read somewhere on this web forum that there'd probably never be a 1.4 patch. I hope that's not true, I don't understand people who spit games out like this and then don't support them. After four patches (and by the sound of it some reasonable attention to what the community have asked for) I'm not sure I'd say that they haven't supported SH4. Sure, they can always support it more...

[longam]

So everyone stands that SH4 is not hypothetical. Well the ship models are nice, the subs look close, the aircraft is accurate, and the map is laid out good but wait. I have sunk the “insert name” 3 times. That convoy I have on the sonar, was it really there in this time and date my simulator says? The radio message says there attacking at “insert name” yet when I go there nothing.

All of the above doesn’t really matter to me as I just like going out with the freedom of not following a script and finding targets and attacking them.

A cold war simulator could be the same with surface attacks. Blocking supplies to an area would not pose that big of a threat to your ship so you could use more conventional methods. The ships would be modeled correctly, the subs accurate, the map.. well anyway.

[kjuice]

I think the next logical step would be Destroyer captain 2, for playing against subs, and best to play head to head online. Weather it be some subhunters vs a live sub opponent , or subhunters vs an AI sub.

[Rockin Robbins]

Something against the Dutch?:rotfl:


Heck no! We just forgot about them. That would be even better. The Dutch in the East Indies were the only Dutch left in the world, as the Netherlands were under Nazi domination at that time. Dutch submarines would be great!

[BadPirate]

I Give my vote to the nukes!
First of all, We had 4 games about WW2. Second of all, I have played many SC/DW custom made missions from brilliant people and I'm sure that could go to the advantage to UBI for mods to release a "mini campaign"...
I wanna see SH5:
1. Full interrior details of US/SSSR subs
2. Proper crew response to commands [rudder, rudder, anyone?]
3. Ability to man any station, including dive planes...
4. External cam, like in SH3/4 with small map overhead like in SC/DW and ability to select objects on map.
5. Auto crew calculating firing solution in realtime speed [not in 1 sec] based on experience...
6. Full crew management.
7. Capitan's cabin.
8. Ability to overclock your reactor up to 115%.
9: Simulated equipment failures
10. Conducting test/dive drills to make crew experience better...

[Detonator]

I think it's time the British WW2 subs got a look in like The Tenth Submarine Flotilla in the siege of Malta for instance

[Stev1]

There Should be a British (Allies) or even a Japanese Era for SH5

[Redwine]

IMHO, to use the name "Silent Hunter" for a early cold war era, or nuke subsim will be an error.

Silent Hunter saga is a WW2 subsim saga.

For a nuke subsim we have Dangerous Waters wich is so good enough.

For an early times of cold war, with no nukes, i think so there is not too much action... will be too boredom.

At first SH III and SH IV are so far to be perfect.

We have not thermal layers modelated on SH III... we have not the water trap to pick up external water and found the thermal layer neither ... why ? because there is not thermal layer modelated.

We have not batythemograph modelated on SH IV.... it was on SH I... 12 years ago... into a DOS subsim.

We can have all the sub interior modellated... with cinematic scenes... torpedo load up, repair actions, flooding.... if i dont remember bad, it was into Fast Attack many years ago... it was a DOS subsim, i have it here in my desk. You was able to see scenes of the crew loading torps and more during in game.

We have not an "ingame whiz wheel", it can be done, i made it for SH II.

We have not a "launch debris" function on SH IV like was in SH I.

SH V at first must to be a perfection of SH III and IV, may be aboth in one, German and USA subsim, may be with the add of Japanesse and British playables subs too.

Plus...

We have a lack of two things in the world of simulation...


1]
A good, WW 1 flight sim... some thing like Red Baron 3D, wich was an too advanced flight sim for his age... may bebetter than many actual... its damage model and its editable flight model was amazing. Its campaign was amazing with cinematic effects and real age news.

2]
A good WW 1 Subsim... where the deck gun was the main gun... with the abordaje simulation.


I think so, the improvement of SH III and IV is at first, and a good WW 1 subsim is at second...



:up::up::up:

[Adriatico]

Now seriously,... it is only a small propotion of total forum members - who are even atracted to this issue (hompage link) i.e. interested in mentioned "proposal"...

If it was statistically "representative market sample"... you should add +40% in favor of WWII... or simply said SIMULATION.

SIMUALATION in gaming world means - to simulate real events... in a highly exciting
PC environment...
For people eager for nuclear conflicts, computer codes, electronic navigation,... etc - there are hundreds of PC titles.

Please, let our remaining simulation community in a hope for a real SH5 ... and leave the SF events, that have never happened - to remaining 90% of kid's PC market...

Simulation tribe on this planet needs just some visual improvments... not imagination!
Ubisoft knows well the Oleg's market earthquake made by IL2/FB/Pacific Aces air serial - compared to "1946" mockery... don"t do that agin...not to our generation!!!

[Mostinius]

Okay, I seriously think we're flogging a dead horse with this thread now. Seriously. Everything that can been said has been said, and we're now just going round and round in circles. The arguments being presented now are either repeats or make no sense at all. Or both:

IMHO, to use the name Silent Hunter for a early cold war era, or nuke subsim will be an error. Silent Hunter saga is a WW2 subsim saga.There are some reasonable arguments against a Cold War Silent Hunter game. This isn't one of them. Silent Hunter encapsulates hunting and quiet - both integral elements in submarine warfare of any era. So there's nothing about the name Silent Hunter that inherently roots the game in WW2. Hells, it could just as easily be a land-based sniper sim, if we go by the name. And to be frank, there's nothing to say that it must be WW2 because it's always been WW2. That'd just be individual preference presented as an absolute.

For an early times of cold war, with no nukes, i think so there is not too much action... will be too boredom.We've been through this several times now, and I think it's pretty obvious that those who find the idea of a Cold War-era sub sim boring expect Cold War-era sub sims to be boring, and would find one so. Those who enjoy Cold War-era sub sims by definition don't find them boring - they just want someone to put the produce a DW-esque sim with the attention to presentation and atmosphere that Ubi have put into SH.

SH V at first must to be a perfection of SH III and IV, may be aboth in one, German and USA subsim, may be with the add of Japanesse and British playables subs too.SH4 is a perfection of SH3. SH3 a perfection of SH2. If by 'perfection' you mean 'huge improvement on'. If you really mean 'perfection' then I hope you're ready for a long wait - because Silent Hunter 46 won't be enough: games are never perfect.

If it was statistically "representative market sample"... you should add +40% in favor of WWII...Why should you? Where does that 40% come from?

SIMUALATION in gaming world means - to simulate real events...I don't see why simulation should mean anything different in the gaming world than in any other usage. A simulation is a model of a system which mimics the real system as precisely as possible. A simulation, in any serious sense, is used to test hypothetical scenarios in order to predict likely responses of the system or people working within the system to those scenarios. Where simulation games are concerned, neither the system being simulated or the scenario being run have to exist in real life. The very purpose of many simulations is to test a mechanism, policy or other system before it's created or implemented in real life. Falcon 4 is no less a simulation because it models a hypothetical military scenario. For that matter, F-19: Stealth Fighter was no less a simulation because the aircraft it was simulating didn't exist (cue conspiracy theorists). The truth is, as long as a game models a system it's a simulation. X-Wing; Sim Earth; Civilization: all simulations, strictly speaking.

Please, let our remaining simulation community in a hope for a real SH5 ... and leave the SF events, that have never happened - to remaining 90% of kid's PC market...Nothing like being good and patronising to help people see your point of view, eh? At 32 I don't consider myself part of the "kid's market" - some of my favourite games/simulations, aside from Silent Hunter, include Dangerous Waters, FSX, Orbiter, Armed Assault, and Rome/Medieval: Total War. Consider Orbiter: does plotting Hohmann transfer orbits for a manned spacecraft from Earth to Mars - something that's never been done in reality and therefore presumably qualifies as an 'SF event that has never happened' - count as the "kid's PC market"?

Okay, that's all I want to say on this one. This rat's leaving the sinking thread. ;)

[Snowman999]

I didn't have a SC Ransel but I do recall a Med run, a five foot condom, one month of every ST, TM, and RM filling it with natral gas, and then popping it in the Goat Locker....

*note: The Goat Locker is not air tight!!:oops:


This, while hilarious (and very, very brave; goats have very long memories . . . and arms), makes me wonder what sort of O-ring was demanded from the Chop in order to form a reuable seal on said 5-foot condom.

And TM gas? Foul, just foul, man. <g>

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

Okay, I seriously think we're flogging a dead horse with this thread now. Seriously. Everything that can been said has been said, and we're now just going round and round in circles. The arguments being presented now are either repeats or make no sense at all. Or both:

IMHO, to use the name Silent Hunter for a early cold war era, or nuke subsim will be an error. Silent Hunter saga is a WW2 subsim saga.There are some reasonable arguments against a Cold War Silent Hunter game. This isn't one of them. Silent Hunter encapsulates hunting and quiet - both integral elements in submarine warfare of any era. So there's nothing about the name Silent Hunter that inherently roots the game in WW2. Hells, it could just as easily be a land-based sniper sim, if we go by the name. And to be frank, there's nothing to say that it must be WW2 because it's always been WW2. That'd just be individual preference presented as an absolute.

For an early times of cold war, with no nukes, i think so there is not too much action... will be too boredom.We've been through this several times now, and I think it's pretty obvious that those who find the idea of a Cold War-era sub sim boring expect Cold War-era sub sims to be boring, and would find one so. Those who enjoy Cold War-era sub sims by definition don't find them boring - they just want someone to put the produce a DW-esque sim with the attention to presentation and atmosphere that Ubi have put into SH.

SH V at first must to be a perfection of SH III and IV, may be aboth in one, German and USA subsim, may be with the add of Japanesse and British playables subs too.SH4 is a perfection of SH3. SH3 a perfection of SH2. If by 'perfection' you mean 'huge improvement on'. If you really mean 'perfection' then I hope you're ready for a long wait - because Silent Hunter 46 won't be enough: games are never perfect.

If it was statistically "representative market sample"... you should add +40% in favor of WWII...Why should you? Where does that 40% come from?

SIMUALATION in gaming world means - to simulate real events...I don't see why simulation should mean anything different in the gaming world than in any other usage. A simulation is a model of a system which mimics the real system as precisely as possible. A simulation, in any serious sense, is used to test hypothetical scenarios in order to predict likely responses of the system or people working within the system to those scenarios. Where simulation games are concerned, neither the system being simulated or the scenario being run have to exist in real life. The very purpose of many simulations is to test a mechanism, policy or other system before it's created or implemented in real life. Falcon 4 is no less a simulation because it models a hypothetical military scenario. For that matter, F-19: Stealth Fighter was no less a simulation because the aircraft it was simulating didn't exist (cue conspiracy theorists). The truth is, as long as a game models a system it's a simulation. X-Wing; Sim Earth; Civilization: all simulations, strictly speaking.

Please, let our remaining simulation community in a hope for a real SH5 ... and leave the SF events, that have never happened - to remaining 90% of kid's PC market...Nothing like being good and patronising to help people see your point of view, eh? At 32 I don't consider myself part of the "kid's market" - some of my favourite games/simulations, aside from Silent Hunter, include Dangerous Waters, FSX, Orbiter, Armed Assault, and Rome/Medieval: Total War. Consider Orbiter: does plotting Hohmann transfer orbits for a manned spacecraft from Earth to Mars - something that's never been done in reality and therefore presumably qualifies as an 'SF event that has never happened' - count as the "kid's PC market"?

Okay, that's all I want to say on this one. This rat's leaving the sinking thread. ;)

Quality post. As for 40%+, 86% of stats are made up on the spot don't you know :hmm:

[tomoose]

After the debacle that was SHIV? Come on, you can't be serious. SHIV is just barely enjoyable now considering the horrendous amount of bugs (even after the patches). Thank god for the modding community at least they (not Ubi or the developers) will make SHIV a worthwhile game.

Nah, for me, Ubi has shot it's bolt on subsims no matter what the era. I'll also take a jaundiced view of any other Ubi product from now on.

:roll:

[Marka Ragnos]

688i Hunter Killer was very popular back in the days, i loved that game.

Dangerous waters is old compared to Silent Hunter IV.

So if Silent Hunter 5 is gonna use modern submarines i would very much like that.

Deploying seals, deploy a DSRV, fighting a typhoon class or an akula, destroyin key buildings with thomahawks, defend a carrier fleet, i need to stop drooling :).

Is there any word on a possible Silent Hunter 5?

[BigBadVuk]

Anybody's who's played Red Storm Rising on the C64 knows the potential of such a sim. Trust me, it's gonna be awesome!:rock:

Oh yes.. i spend last 2 years here on forums spamming around about this game and how it can be used for making new dynamic campaign in ColdWar enviroment..

SH can be transfered to 60/70/80s easy.they already have dynamic campaign engine and they just need to make good background,models and perhaps few sensors&sound propagation...Not a much of hard work comapred to starting all from scratch..:up:

[oscar19681]

I would go for a cold-war gone hot scenario with the current engine. They could use the hunt for the red october as an example just as they uses das boot for sh-3. They could model seal team insertions just like they did with commando,s in sh-4. Just as long as they model the 688 la class flight 1 and II

[oscar19681]

I would go for a cold-war gone hot scenario with the current engine. They could use the hunt for the red october as an example just as they uses das boot for sh-3. They could model seal team insertions just like they did with commando,s in sh-4. Just as long as they model the 688 la class flight 1 and II

[TwistedFemur]

No vote, because the what I think is the right answer wasn't on the list :)

If there's a SH5... and IF the devs get the proper committment from UBI to finish what they start... then I'd be all over a sub sim set in WWI.


JD

FTW

amen man:up:

[Hartmann]

:hmm:

silent hunter 1 :Pacific
silent hunter 2 :Atlantic
silent hunter 3 :Atlantic
silent hunter 4 :Pacific

silent hunter 5 : cold war simulator with all the improvements and sh3/4 engine.

For me it´s one of the most interesting options ,and in the modern submarine warfare one can do things impossible to do with the previous silent hunter games.

i don´t think that this could be boring, it´s relative and depends of the personal point of view.

for some people could be boring sink merchants again and again and evading depth charges and restart again while for other can found very interesting or boring follow and attack a task force with missiles, or chase another submarines. deploy special ops, adquire secret data, or strike ground targets .

But finally all of this is only if ubi or another developer do a sh5, perhaps a very difficult thing in the actual simulators market. :hmm:

[U-TigerShark]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too. Make MP like it was in the days of SH2/Destroyer Command. In other words, open the flood gate and allow anything goes !!

JIM

that would be the single greatest most loved game by sim goers

ive played battlestation middway but its way too arcade-like i would love such a sim where you pick any ship,submarine maybe a plane ? if its not too much and hit out

[Anachronous]

WWII is fun because the war is mostly mechanical, and ontop of that there is 'actual' conflict, not just 'possible' conflict.

I've played other modern sub sims, but you cant beat merchant convoys, battleships, inaccurate manual set devices and no satelites :P

WWI would be ok, but honestly, id rather see single player games become more like MMOs in terms of content, and be updated and added to, instead of whole new games. That way your favourite games keep getting bigger and better, instead of having to decide between versions.

[Sheppard]

I can't believe you people are forgetting the perfect era for SH5 in the Cold War.

Mid 1950s.

You got the Nautilus coming online in a few years; and both sides have evolved submarines utilizing all the experience gained from taking apart the Type XXI; the Soviets built 236 Whiskeys between 1949 and 1958.

Their mission was to sail and go into the North Atlantic and.......sink the massive NATO reinforcement convoys sailing from the US in case of WWIII.

[Fat Bhoy Tim]

I can't believe you people are forgetting the perfect era for SH5 in the Cold War.

Mid 1950s.

You got the Nautilus coming online in a few years; and both sides have evolved submarines utilizing all the experience gained from taking apart the Type XXI; the Soviets built 236 Whiskeys between 1949 and 1958.

Their mission was to sail and go into the North Atlantic and.......sink the massive NATO reinforcement convoys sailing from the US in case of WWIII.

What this gent said. A few smart people are calling this, and I think it would be great. Good mixture of diesel/electric and nuclear vessels. The Ruskies would be going after convoys, NATO after their fleets. etc etc

[DJSatane]

I prefer they actually made multiplayer fun, and with a lot of details, including more modes and possiblity of running a server capable of hosting up to 16-32 players in a scenario.

[goldorak]

I definitely vote for a cold war era subsim.
And for those thinking you can't design a dynamic campaign around non real historical events, have a look at Falcon 4. :yep:
As for the reasoning that sub command ad dw have already locked that market, you seriously have no idea what you are talking about.
Dw is more than just a subsim, its an integrated 3d naval battlespace something that if a SH 5 cold era version is made, it will never be.
So I say bring along the 60-70 era. :yep:
A subsim with multistation-multiplayer capabilities, with a dynamic campaign being possibile also in multiplayer.
I want a cold war era naval subsim equivalent of Falcon 4. :arrgh!:

[xETCSS]

I would like to see it done as an update to one of the older classics already mentioned.

I'm thinking maybe 688i or Red Storm Rising using the SH3/4 engine would be a pretty cool Cold War title with a good amount of action and could be a very good game too.

However having been there and done that through the 80's and early 90's I will give the non-Cold War posters their due. A truly realistic Cold War sim would entail a lot of boredom although there is a different kind of excitement and accomplishment to a long undetected trail :cool:

[Amiral Crapaud]

As far as I am concerned, Dangerous Waters and the whole Sonalyst brand makes already for uber-simulations of the era. I would find no profit nor interest in playing a low-end cold-war era subsim, knowing that the game will hardly meet the realism of Sonalyst stuff :down:

Honestly, I'd find a DD simulation to couple with SH3 and SH4 much more entertaining and interesting.
A revised edition of SH3 (with updated graphics)+SH4 bundle together with a DD simulation and the right multiplayer stuff would definitely be quite a sexy SH5 for me.

[ryoga_77]

Regardless of which scenario SH5 takes place in , Ubi would do well to follow Valve's example and hire some of the best modding talent.Testament to this is the fact that almost no one plays SH3 vanilla.

[The General]

Upon reflection I realise that I have made a serious error. With your assistance I have come to realise that our beloved Silent Hunter series should indeed remain a WWII based sim and that the Cold-War should be tackled by another developer. They sure could learn alot form the SH series though. Ubisoft have cornered what little market there is for subsims, but I can't help but think that a little competition would benefit us all.

Thanks everyone for making this an interesting debate.

:up:

[goldorak]

Upon reflection I realise that I have made a serious error. With your assistance I have come to realise that our beloved Silent Hunter series should indeed remain a WWII based sim and that the Cold-War should be tackled by another developer. They sure could learn alot form the SH series though. Ubisoft have cornered what little market there is for subsims, but I can't help but think that a little competition what benefit us all.

Thanks everyone for making this an interesting debate.

:up:


Let me guess, you didn't think that the cold ware era choice would win so now you're regretting doing the poll in the first place ? :rotfl:

[The General]

The Poll was a success, over 400 people have voted! And it showed that there are more people interested in a change than not. That's progress my Italian friend.

[goldorak]

The Poll was a success, over 400 people have voted! And it showed that there are more people interested in a change than not. That's progress my Italian friend.

Yes, but I don't understand Why you changed your opinion. :hmm:

[Sonarman]

I'm thinking maybe 688i or Red Storm Rising using the SH3/4 engine would be a pretty cool Cold War title with a good amount of action and could be a very good game too.

Perhaps as a community we could petition Firaxis to do an remake of "Red Storm Rising".

Interestingly in a poll on their site a while back another sub game the classic "Silent Service" actually came third in the games people would most like to see remade, scoring ahead of the game they did go on to remake (Railroads).

Sid Meier did actually mention RSR a while back saying that there would be problems using the name again as the Clancy properties are now now huge moneyspinners. Other than that I'd actually be happy with the original gamecode + new graphics +sfx which shouldn't be too expensive to do.

[The General]

Yes, but I don't understand Why you changed your opinion. :hmm:Sorry, that's Classified.

[DS]

I would be most interested in early the cold war period. The SH series has covered 1939-1945, and the Sonalysts subsims have covered ~1985-2007. There is a gap that covers perhaps the most interesting period of submarine development, employment, and tension.

Silent Hunter - Cold Warriors - 1950-1980

would ROCK!:rock:

[Adriatico]

Just to briefly clarify my previous post on "pole results":

There is wide sim-community, within them some forum members, and finally - our forum members...
Out of total number of our forums members, some of them where interested in your proposal (hompage link) ...and poped in to thread.

... so it is natural assumption that, besides direct voters for WW2 simulation in a pole - to the same opinion should be added all the forum members who did not vote ... i.e. people who where not interested in even visting your proposal/link, they apparently are not interested at all in such an idea discussion or reading the proposal...

JUST A NATURAL CONLUSION...

[Adriatico]

....and don't you think that those third, yellow bar voters, are basically mockering your fresh proposal ?

[The General]

Adriatico, I'm guessing English is not your first language, 'cos I can't understand what your point is. Anybody?

[Snakeeyes]

I would be most interested in early the cold war period. The SH series has covered 1939-1945, and the Sonalysts subsims have covered ~1985-2007. There is a gap that covers perhaps the most interesting period of submarine development, employment, and tension.

Silent Hunter - Cold Warriors - 1950-1980

would ROCK!:rock:

Screw up to 1980! Make it through 1992! Give me GEPARD BABY!:rock:!!!!!!!!!

[NefariousKoel]

I would be most interested in early the cold war period. The SH series has covered 1939-1945, and the Sonalysts subsims have covered ~1985-2007. There is a gap that covers perhaps the most interesting period of submarine development, employment, and tension.

Silent Hunter - Cold Warriors - 1950-1980

would ROCK!:rock:

Actually, SC & DW covered the very late 90s and up.

I'd be happy with a WW3 in the 80s. Throw in the 60s and 70s - that wouldn't hurt either.

[Caseck]

Hypothetical 1950's era would be great.


Where no Silent Hunter has gone before...

WWIII! Nuclear war at sea...

[rudewarrior]

SH5 back to the Atlantic war, nothing else for me.

Cold war era seems kinda "cold." (Get it?) ;)

Played Sub Command and DW, not my bag o' tricks.

Pacific theatre doesn't really do it for me either.

[Grothesj2]

Anybody's who's played Red Storm Rising on the C64 knows the potential of such a sim. Trust me, it's gonna be awesome!:rock:

Many an hour spent stalking Victors and Krivaks off the Norwiegan coast. Bring it on. :arrgh!:

[Miika]

I really would like to play a sim placed in the era 1945-1960, a hypotethical cold war turned hot -scenario. The point is that at that time force projection was still based mainly on numbers, not just quality. The other points are:

-no digital signal processing (analog radar, sonar, ESM etc.)
-this means that using sensors would be much more interesting, although it requires that the sensors should be simulated carefully
-there is lots of data releasable from that period
-homing torpedoes etc. based on electro-mechanic functionality (no fancy stuff, more "playable" that way, accuracy around 20-40%, not 95-100% etc.
-all the elements of modern warfare (although not too many types of missiles) would be present - but not too high-tech
-it would be a gold-mine for scenario designers, although that requires that there should be many playable platforms, and altogether many systems from many countries

Miika

[Takeda Shingen]

SH5 back to the Atlantic war, nothing else for me.

Cold war era seems kinda "cold." (Get it?) ;)

Played Sub Command and DW, not my bag o' tricks.

Pacific theatre doesn't really do it for me either.

Ack. The last thing I would want to see is yet another uboat sim.

[GerritJ9]

I voted "set in space", though I really meant the idea should be seNt in space. I can think of two better alternatives (well, in my view anyway):

1) WW1 sub sim; at the moment only Schalen des Zorns exists, but it is, from what I have seen, rather limited (not played it yet though). A proper WW1 sub sim should allow play for Royal Navy as well as Kaiserliche Marine (OK, throw in the French Navy and KuK Marine subs). This would, for instance, also make missions penetrating the Dardanelles with a British E-class sub possible, or attacks on German shipping in the Baltic, as well as U-Boot warfare in the North Sea, Mediterranean and Atlantic.

2) Expansion for SH4 to include play for other nations: Japanese, Dutch and British subs (or call the result SH5). The submarine warfare in the Pacific wasn't just the USN.

[peterloo]

No. It will definitely suck if SH5 is in Cold War Era. (even early Cold War)

First, there is no engagements here. Nothing's eyes-candy. Just some recon missions or regular patrols (to prevent enemy intruders) definitely stinks and bores us to hell

Secondly, there isn't any graphical requirment if it is set in Cold War. The only thing you've to know is the way to operate sonar. You won't surface, as it is danagerous to do so. Even a registered hit from a hellfire or general purpose 100kg gravity bomb can send you to the abyssal space in an instant. You don't want to be there, do you?

Finally, there is something that you can play if you love modern / cold war subs - Dangerous waters. I'm sure that those loves enjoys it, while the other "casual" or less "realism-oriented" players like me (I don't use TDC lol. Click & shoot is my habit. Yet I do other stuffs in realistic way) Ubisoft won't spend $$ on those games that never pays off, will they?

If I were the DEV team, I would either make it a World War I German U-boat, with no TDC and all fishs only fires at 90 degree angle, or a World War II one Japanese / British / Soviet / Allied / German boat, given that it has a SDK and many features like mine-laying to please everyone.

[Adriatico]

The General,... just a small comment...

At Subsim homepage: there is clearly, striking visible subtitle (link) to this topic... ( Is this clear in English? )

Every member or visitor interesed in this topic/proposal...is just "one mouse-click away" from discussion or vote...

All the people - who have not visited the topic, i.e. did not pay attention to proposed link, so far... are quite happy with WWII environment... not willing to even read the "cold war" thread...

They (naturally) should belong to the "second and third" voters group of your pole... just a logic assumption.
Nothing more, nothing less...

****
If this is not clear English, I'll try with Massai dialect in a next post...

[mookiemookie]

SH5 back to the Atlantic war, nothing else for me.

Cold war era seems kinda "cold." (Get it?) ;)

Played Sub Command and DW, not my bag o' tricks.

Pacific theatre doesn't really do it for me either.
Ack. The last thing I would want to see is yet another uboat sim.

Disagreed. They still haven't gotten it right since AoTD. SH3 was a step in the right direction, but the lack of wolfpacks, milkcows and proper radio reports are a glaring omission. I want a modern U-boat sim that does it right.

[USS Sea Tiger]

I would love to se a Cold war edition,, skipjacks and all (i.s. 1960's, 70's, and early 80s)

I su much enjoyed the old C64 red storm rising . UBI would have to avoid the major pitfalls of some of the more recent attempts at games of this era, they made them so complex, so full of correct number crunching and all that they made it more of a advanced college study of ASW warfare, and booked learned the fun right out of it.

This is a very common problem with computer games these days, they forgot how to make them somewhat simple and fun.

witht he c64, there was a keyboard overlay (ok so yes, I still have my c64 up and running,, kind of an old pet I can't get rid of) and quickly you could master it.

these others of recent times,, they sit on my shelf,

[Radtgaeb]

While the idea is pretty cool; DW, SC, and 688i have the modern sub thing covered. I'd really like to see SH4 in the Atlantic (with a helluva an AI overload). For some reason, I can't get into the Pacific. I love SH4, don't get me wrong, but it's coming off my computer sometime soon. The AI is just too stupid (maybe historically so), but there's so much more thrill to be found in the cold waters of the North and Central Atlantic. Plus, those fleet boats are too much like staying at the Hilton for me.

[Sub Sailor]

I believe it would work quite well, I see such possibilities, stay with subs, just have a range of platforms and with events in China it could be kept current.
I would believe developers, could have subs for both sides from that era.
I would question if DW was a flop, I am not it's biggest fan I admit, but I play the subs, I have never liked the sonar in DW or SC.

Respectfully,

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

[Takeda Shingen]

SH5 back to the Atlantic war, nothing else for me.

Cold war era seems kinda "cold." (Get it?) ;)

Played Sub Command and DW, not my bag o' tricks.

Pacific theatre doesn't really do it for me either.
Ack. The last thing I would want to see is yet another uboat sim.

Disagreed. They still haven't gotten it right since AoTD. SH3 was a step in the right direction, but the lack of wolfpacks, milkcows and proper radio reports are a glaring omission. I want a modern U-boat sim that does it right.

Disagreed. No simulator; not Aces, not 688(i), not Fast Attack, not the original Silent Hunter, has been a model simulation. The perfect sim is unatainable, and it is ridiculous to imply that every historical submarine simulation must be set in the WWII Atlantic theatre. It is time for a change, and that change should not involve uboats. We've had too much of that.

[mookiemookie]

Disagreed. No simulator; not Aces, not 688(i), not Fast Attack, not the original Silent Hunter, has been a model simulation. The perfect sim is unatainable, and it is ridiculous to imply that every historical submarine simulation must be set in the WWII Atlantic theatre. It is time for a change, and that change should not involve uboats. We've had too much of that.

I never implied that every sub sim should be a U-boat sim. I just would like them to get it right. SH4 is a great game and a great sim for folks who love the Pacific war. It has it's bugs, sure, but in my opinion it does an admirable job of modelling the major aspects of the sub war in the Pacific. It gets it right.

While the perfect simulator is unattainable, the things that defined the U-boat war (wolfpacks, Operation Drumbeat Milkcows, and the importance of radio messages and Huff Duff) shouldn't be overlooked in any U-boat sim. All of them were overlooked for the most part in SH3. GWX went a long way in fixing them given the limited tools they had, but they're still not quite right and should have been there from the start and in a more developed fashion. That's what I'd like to see.

But then again, I have a biased opinion as I couldn't care less about Cold War sub operations. ;)

[The General]

The General,... just a small comment...

They (naturally) should belong to the "second and third" voters group of your pole... just a logic assumption.

Nothing more, nothing less...It's certainly nothing more. The 'Poll' (pay attention to the spelling there chief), has had roughly 500 voters, which represents a large enough cross-secton for me to form an opinion on how popular my idea was. In fact, by the time the Poll closes(which has remained remarkably evenly split) I expect the majority to have voted for change, but, as I've said in an earlier Post, I believe that I was mistaken and that the Developers responsible for the Silent Hunter series should stick to WWII and somebody else should take a crack at the Cold-War, if financially viable, which doesn't look likely.

So, I'll ask again, what was your point? In one sentence, in whatever language you like.

[Adriatico]

In 3 sentences... i appreciate every single vote and opinion out of this 500 votes, but it would be terribly wrong to draw conclusions or generate directions to Ubisoft out of it...
People who voted are only one group within subsim fans, who - all togather represent only small proportion of sub simulation fans in a world... especially in a non english part of planet...
It seems to me that some "conclusion spirit came out of bottle" in this thread, so I felt a need to point out to some wider view on this issue...
Haug,
Sitting Bull

[goldorak]

Disagreed. No simulator; not Aces, not 688(i), not Fast Attack, not the original Silent Hunter, has been a model simulation. The perfect sim is unatainable, and it is ridiculous to imply that every historical submarine simulation must be set in the WWII Atlantic theatre. It is time for a change, and that change should not involve uboats. We've had too much of that.

Very well said. :up:
Its time for a mainstream and I repeat a mainstream cold war submarine simulator game. :arrgh!:

[EinsteinEP]

I hope that the next major subsim, whether it's set in WWII, Cold War, or WWI comes from someone other than UBIsoft. I don't think I go through another SH4 again!

[goldorak]

I hope that the next major subsim, whether it's set in WWII, Cold War, or WWI comes from someone other than UBIsoft. I don't think I go through another SH4 again!


Well as I see it we have to choose the lesser evil.
And Ubisoft is the only one of the major publishers doing something about military naval simulations. I'll take Ubisoft every time over EA.
The only other developpers I could think of is those guys that did GC II. They are passionate, the games are not buggy, they add a ton of content after release, and most importantly they don't depend on a big publisher. The only problem is I doubt they would be interested in a military simulation. ;)

[DisparateX]

No vote, because the what I think is the right answer wasn't on the list :)

If there's a SH5... and IF the devs get the proper committment from UBI to finish what they start... then I'd be all over a sub sim set in WWI.


JD

Now there's a good idea. :)

[Hybris]

I like the idea, mainly because the early Cold War period has not been tackled. Alright there's a lack of historical event to go on, but how many times have games written an alternate history despite the initially historical setting?

However I have a feeling it would turn out worse then SH4, simply because there would be a lot to implement. And we all know it would be half finished as always.

I agree with F.B.T that a alternate history would be cool (Commanding a Typhoon or Alfa would be sweet) but how about doing this in the future (2100-2200 A.D?).

One idea I have been thinking about writeing into a fan fiction is sometime in the future the French (Now called the United Islamic State) have surprised the world and have conquered a most of it in a matter of 2 years. Now what is left of the US, Russia, Germany, and (maybe?) Japan rebel forces must fight off this evil at sea using what ships they can find or build including WWII U-boats all they way to the Seawolf class subs. It's a bit more out there then most (if not all) your guys ideas but I think it would be intresting if done right.

[TommieV]

No real events, no real joy!

It should concentrate making sh ww2 more realistic. Having the effect to the actual warfare and outcome! That should be heavily considered:know: !


-TommieV

[Furia]

Whatever age, Cold War sounds interesting ;) , PLEASE, make it a good Multiplayer game with the option or commanding Surface Units as well.
Such it was done with Destroyer Command and Silent Hunter II.

Fighting AI is boring :down:

My two cents

[Myxale]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too. Make MP like it was in the days of SH2/Destroyer Command. In other words, open the flood gate and allow anything goes !!

JIM

Amen to that bro!

And come one mates SH5 in a CW setting :dead:

SH has alwazs been WWII and should remain there!

[Faamecanic]

How about just release a sub-sim from ANY era, that is COMPLETE or at least near complete without us begging for a 90% fix patch.

Sorry to be negative but I feel that SH4 is still not complete. The Devs had a great vision, just like SH3, that was only made complete thanks to the efforts of Modders after the fact.

[Misfit138]

No real events, no real joy!

But the problem with real events is that we already know what is going to happen ;)

On some level, would be great if SH5 would be kind of fictional WW2. It begins with the same events as it did in reality but the course of campaing would change. This would require some sort of AI campaing planning as Falcon 4 has but it would be even better!

[The General]

The Poll is now closed. Interesting result. Thanks everyone for your opinions and for voting.

:up:

[sabot]

.....you go back home, a mission well done and a slap on the back from Admiral Rickover.

Now I know what you're thinking. That in itself would be more than enough for a gut-wrenching mind-blowing experience but you would be wrong! Because now you get to take your sub and park it under the North Pole and stay there, being a hole in the water, coming up to a polyna occasionally and raising your mast so you can radio your situation and you receive heart-hammering orders to stay at your postion being a hole in the water.

I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

You forgot all the incoming EAM drills you could perform IOT get your spin-up times down.:|\\

[aaronfoster4]

well maybe not cold war excatly maybe just a nuke sub sim come on wouldnt tht just be the shizz going round nukeing everywhere sounds excelent to me:arrgh!:

[Navigator857]

How bout Silent Hunter V - Combat Space Shuttles?

[rls669]

Having a cold war version that turns into a shooting war might as well be a space combat game IMO (if you're gonna do fantasy, go all the way!).Yes, shame on all those totally unrealistic fantasy games like Longbow, Falcon, Eurofighter . . . there isn't a roll-eyes smiley big enough to express how I feel about this opinion.

Turn that position around to see how illogical it is . . . if you're going to do a historical simulation, why not go all the way and just sit back and watch everything play out exactly how it happened the first time? Doesn't get any more historical than that. Anything action the player takes, by definition, makes it less historically accurate.

Anyway . . . I think a Red-Menace-Pouring-Through-The-Fulda-Gap scenario would kick indescribable amounts of ass in any genre of simulation. Imagine the missions . . . everything from covert insertions to EW patrols to escorting convoys across the Atlantic to ASW screening for task forces . . . interdicting Soviet naval forces . . . attacking their convoys . . . <drool>

[Stealth Hunter]

Hell no. What happened to World War I (THE WAR THAT FIRST USED SUBS FOR MAJOR COMBAT OPERATIONS, FFS!!)?! One step forward and two steps back sort of going on, if you ask me.:shifty:

[The_Pharoah]

well if I had a wish re the SH series, I'd definitely prefer the cold war scenario. I mean, who would want to fight in WW1? Its basically WWII with old subs, very little ASW and a/c.

However, what I've been eagerly waiting for is an update to the Destroyer Command game. Imagine captaining a Destroyer in the pacific or atlantic! That would definitely be awesome!!! eg.
- naval battles vs the Japs in Iron Bottom sound
- escort duty
- ASW duty
- AAA duty (esp against kamikaze attacks)
- land bombardment

now THAT would be awesome. If you incorporate SHIV grahics (maybe even upgrade to DX10) as well as good multiplayer support, you'd have yourself a pretty good game. Kinda reminds me of Battlefield 1942 online where we used to have pitch battles (ie. destroyer vs destoyer vs sub vs a/craft vs coastal batteries).

*drools*

[sabot]

.....you go back home, a mission well done and a slap on the back from Admiral Rickover.

Now I know what you're thinking. That in itself would be more than enough for a gut-wrenching mind-blowing experience but you would be wrong! Because now you get to take your sub and park it under the North Pole and stay there, being a hole in the water, coming up to a polyna occasionally and raising your mast so you can radio your situation and you receive heart-hammering orders to stay at your postion being a hole in the water.

I'm getting the vapors just thinking about it.

You forgot all the incoming EAM drills you could perform IOT get your spin-up times down.:|\\

Wait!!!

We could have a multiplayer game....the CPT who goes for the trigger gets banned for life.:damn:

[The General]

well if I had a wish re the SH series, I'd definitely prefer the cold war scenario. I mean, who would want to fight in WW1? Its basically WWII with old subs, very little ASW and a/c.

However, what I've been eagerly waiting for is an update to the Destroyer Command game. Imagine captaining a Destroyer in the pacific or atlantic! That would definitely be awesome!!! eg.
- naval battles vs the Japs in Iron Bottom sound
- escort duty
- ASW duty
- AAA duty (esp against kamikaze attacks)
- land bombardment

now THAT would be awesome. If you incorporate SHIV grahics (maybe even upgrade to DX10) as well as good multiplayer support, you'd have yourself a pretty good game. Kinda reminds me of Battlefield 1942 online where we used to have pitch battles (ie. destroyer vs destoyer vs sub vs a/craft vs coastal batteries).

*drools*I don't see this as a 'subsim' do you? Maybe you could start up a website called destroyersim and see how many hits you get.

[goldorak]

I don't see this as a 'subsim' do you? Maybe you could start up a website called destroyersim and see how many hits you get.

Hey General did you even read the reason most people are voting for a WWII subsim ? :hmm:
They don't want more of the same, if an hypothetical SH V were ever to be made, the greatest addition would be a complete sub-destoyer environment.
There is one point where SH II was vastly superior to SH III and IV and thats in multiplayer.
Getting you to choose between destroyer and sub is great.
Remember that ww2 subs really only went against civilian ships, and you don't get a good multiplayer experience commanding a trawler :rotfl: .
A great multiplayer experience is in sub vs destroyer only because there is no sub vs sub combat during ww 2.

[Alan]

If we are going to play a ongoing game thats going to only get better.New subs and weapons,will harpoons,nukes,homing topeodes, be used?..Or ordinary R,O,E..BUT on the whole this sounds like a good idea...:up:

[WilhelmSchulz.]

Id like them to progress to WWI

[Avatar]

Having a cold war subsim with a fictional war would be interesting and hopefully as fun as RSR, however 1950-1980 would be a 30 year war. You would have to choose a time period to begin the war. But that thinking is getting way ahead of what is actually going on here.
I'm for a change of pace from ww2 sims. The difference in technology from 50's to 80's would play huge in how you conduct your submarine action, kind of like how Star Trek: Enterprise is to Star Trek: Voyager.
Graphics and eye candy are second to playability and simulation.

[70shelby1943]

It Would be cool to a Nu, Sub to Fire off Rockets or Sunk Ships !!:up: :up: :up:

[don1reed]

Cold war era...I'd rather watch paint dry.

WW1 & WW2...folks really fought each other...many never came back...or,

real men eat quiche.

[Sheppard]

First, there is no engagements here. Nothing's eyes-candy. Just some recon missions or regular patrols (to prevent enemy intruders) definitely stinks and bores us to hell


You mean that you can't do convoy sinking in a 1950s Cold War Gone Hot with the 258 Soviet WHISKEYS built, sinking NATO convoys with boats which are Type XXIs on Crack

[mookiemookie]

First, there is no engagements here. Nothing's eyes-candy. Just some recon missions or regular patrols (to prevent enemy intruders) definitely stinks and bores us to hell

You mean that you can't do convoy sinking in a 1950s Cold War Gone Hot with the 258 Soviet WHISKEYS built, sinking NATO convoys with boats which are Type XXIs on Crack

:zzz: Push a button, kill someone 10 miles away that you never see. No thanks.

[Kromus]

First, there is no engagements here. Nothing's eyes-candy. Just some recon missions or regular patrols (to prevent enemy intruders) definitely stinks and bores us to hell

You mean that you can't do convoy sinking in a 1950s Cold War Gone Hot with the 258 Soviet WHISKEYS built, sinking NATO convoys with boats which are Type XXIs on Crack

:zzz: Push a button, kill someone 10 miles away that you never see. No thanks.

Simple new "target camera" would solve that so you could see your target 1000 km away (optionable like in SH series external cam). It seems like all cold war haters are kinda brainded and unimaginative, because noone who is for CW era wants 100% real cold war campaing (sitting and waiting), but HYPOTHETICAL conflict with REAL subs/shis etc.

[Sailor Steve]

But you don't want a realistic moder "Hot War" either, as that would probably mean everybody pushes all the buttons, and there's nobody left to fight and no home to go to. Not for me, thanks.

And just because you're opinion differs doesn't mean you have to call people "brain dead", or even "unimaginative"; it implies that you are incapable of having a real discussion.

[mookiemookie]

It seems like all cold war haters are kinda brainded and unimaginative, because noone who is for CW era wants 100% real cold war campaing (sitting and waiting), but HYPOTHETICAL conflict with REAL subs/shis etc.

I think you missed the point...I understand the "what if" hypothetical campaign, but fighting that sort of war with those weapons does not appeal to me. Hence my comment.

[GT182]

SH5 should be WW2 but on both sides of the ocean. Pick a sub (any
nationality) and go for it. Also to make the game complete, be able to
drive any surface ship too.
JIM

As long as they could merge SHIII and 4 together so you had both sides plus the Brit, Japanese and Russian subs, I'd go for that. Plus any WWII subs I didn't mention. ;)

But only if it works as advertised right out of the box. Like finish the damn thing before it's released. :yep:

[The_Pharoah]

I don't see this as a 'subsim' do you? Maybe you could start up a website called destroyersim and see how many hits you get.

Hey General did you even read the reason most people are voting for a WWII subsim ? :hmm:
They don't want more of the same, if an hypothetical SH V were ever to be made, the greatest addition would be a complete sub-destoyer environment.
There is one point where SH II was vastly superior to SH III and IV and thats in multiplayer.
Getting you to choose between destroyer and sub is great.
Remember that ww2 subs really only went against civilian ships, and you don't get a good multiplayer experience commanding a trawler :rotfl: .
A great multiplayer experience is in sub vs destroyer only because there is no sub vs sub combat during ww 2.

Thank you - my point exactly. Atleast the devs have gone a step closer with the Convoy commander option in multiplayer.

[XLjedi]

:up: I'd buy it!

From the few posts I've seen describing cold war era sub sims as a "snooze fest"...

I would say first, go read Blind Mans Bluff. And secondly you're missing the point, it would obviously be a simulation of a war event in the cold war era, similar to Red Storm Rising.

Who says you have to immitate history? Would be cool though if I could create a special ops sub to search the bottom with a tethered submersible for communication lines and them send my dive team in to tap the line and gain an advantage against my adversary.

[JordanC]

People want ANOTHER WWII sim?

YES! Let's camp out in a leaky, tin can, put around at 5 knots, and sit and wait for a destroyer! Sounds REAL fun. WWII era was fun, but it's really old now. I think the cold war would be a good choice, however there was no combat. There could be hypothetical scenarious created, however the rivet counters would pout. I want something a bit more modern. Don't get me wrong, the WWII era was great, but it's getting old.

[mrmertz]

...that was too funny. :lol:

How about going above water Ubi and slugging it out surface style?

Jeff aka mrmertz

[silentrunner]

It seems like the General stirred up a hornets nest the polls say that the Cold war would be better but it seems like every one on the thread is saying that that would be BS I like the idea of a Cold war era sub game it seems cool

[Sailor Steve]

While the idea of a cold-war sub sim is not something that interests me, it's obvious that a lot of people are for it, as they are still outvoting us WWII lovers. I don't mind the idea, even though it's not my thing; I only objected to the Silent Hunter name. That said, if people want it, and somebody makes it, I say more power to them. The more honest combat simulations the better.:sunny:

[Sheppard]

:zzz: Push a button, kill someone 10 miles away that you never see. No thanks.

Ah, I see we have a genius here. Newsflash. The Soviets and US Fleet boat of the 1950s were equipped with improved versions of WWII torpedoes; along with a few homing torpedoes. There was none of this "fire and forget" advanced torpedo stuff.

[mookiemookie]

:zzz: Push a button, kill someone 10 miles away that you never see. No thanks.
Ah, I see we have a genius here. Newsflash. The Soviets and US Fleet boat of the 1950s were equipped with improved versions of WWII torpedoes; along with a few homing torpedoes. There was none of this "fire and forget" advanced torpedo stuff.
Thanks for the resoundingly pleasant compliment! I really don't have much interest in the timeperiod, the weapons, or the operations, real or imagined. FYI: The Cold War lasted up until the 1990s. I know it's fun to cherry pick timeperiods to make me look foolish, but when you consider the scope of the entire Cold War, there was a lot of technological advancements in the field of "fire and forget" weapons that I'm quite simply not interested in. But hey, don't let silly things like facts get in the way of insulting me!

Anyways, you made it very clear that differing opinions are O.K.! You stay classy too, buddy! :up:

[ParaB]

I'd love to see a cold-war era SHV. I'm a big fan of Red Storm Rising, 688i and Dangerous Waters. And I'm tired of the WW2 theater for subsims for now.

[Perseus]

I think that comparing SH from World War II to, say, 'Dangerous Waters' or even '688i' is like comparing apples with pears.

First off, the SH-series has created its own atmosphere. The player actually gets a bit of an idea of what it is like to be inside a submarine, and there is a huge sense of freedom. That gives the SH-series an advantage over Dangerous Waters and 688i. Dangerous Waters is 'just' moving from screen-screen to screen-screen - all very sterile.

I mean, put me in an operation room in a hospital and tell me to get sexually aroused, and I won't be able to get it up. Put me in a top-notch hotel room with a nice woman, and it becomes a whole different story. Dangerous Waters and its ilk are fun but they're operation rooms, while SH is that sleazy bar with two bisexual models-turned-porn actresses thrown in, and free booze to boot.

Welp, what I'd like, and what I've always favoured, is a remake of 'Red Storm Rising', with the fun of the Silent Hunter-level stuff (being able to move through your sub, actually being in the con etc) and the campaign-stuff of Red Storm Rising.

I mean, if you consider the fact that the Soviets back in the day basically wanted to re-enact Nazi Germany's U-boat campaign, but then not just isolating Great Britian but all of Europe, but then with about 200 subs more than the Nazis ever had, boy - that'd be fun!

Just imagine being in the high sees, approaching the sonobuoys fixed to the ocean floor (the Greenland-Iceland-UK-gap), ensuring you're not heard or picked up by a P-3 with its MAD dish, and then heading out into the Atlantic Ocean to sink US convoys headed for Europe, while you can see the progress of the Red Army while they crash forward into Western Europe...

Or commanding a Seawolf of 688 class, moving in silently through waters riddled with sonobuoys as you approach the northern coast of the Kola Peninsula to destroy Tu-22M Backfire air bases with Tomahawks...

As a side campaign, I can imagine being a Russki captain in a Whiskey or Foxtrot near Cuba at the absolute high-point (or low-point if you will), and just when you're surrounded by three US destroyers the chef in the back drops a metal pan on another metal pan and both pans just happen to fall on that one piece of floor where there's no rubber tiles...

Or moving into the Boomer Bastion to take out Typhoons after an Emergency Action Message flashes that Soviet land forces are suddenly dispersing from their bases within the Soviet Union amid high tensions - a tell-tale sign of something *VERY* bad waiting to happen...

Or the 'Armageddon'-scenario, where you're commanding your Ohio SSBN and *the* Emergency Action Message heralding DEFCON 1 arrives, while you know that there's at least one Akula out there somewhere.
And of course, after the Tridents have rippled and the tubes are empty, you get to sit back and pop a beer as you, through the external view or from the bridge while surfaced, watch the flashes in the distance, wondering about what kind of world awaits those who will survive the radiation, as "We'll meet again" is played ;)

Yeah. I'd like that.

[weird-marksman]

I've been playing sub sims since 15 years and the beginning of the cold war era sound good to me...
Maybe we will have the command of the first nuclear sub or firing the first ballistic missle :roll:

Nautilus
Skate
Skipjack
Thresher

Hotel
Echo
November

:up: sounds good

[aaronfoster4]

and maybe we could have uk subs aswell tht would be good like the ones i served in:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

[tomagabriel]

Hi there! I was thinking of Call of Duty now with its modern warfare turn... Well, I'd jump around in everlasting joy if SH5 would place itself in the nuclear age. I do not necessarily want to drive the reactor around (liar), even a diesel electric would do, but I would like so much to see the Krivak through my scope before politely asking the "would you please fire?" command.


So my answer is oh,boy sure sure sure :ping: , but the poll is closed :nope:


Edit:
A modern german diesel thing? Uhu!

[NefariousKoel]

One name seems to be a repeated theme in this thread:

Red Storm Rising

I have to agree it should be what any sub sim should aim for campaign-wise.

That kind of campaign is what has been sorely missing from SC/DW.

Aside from those two points.. I wouldn't care if it was a bit gamey if it played like the classic RSR. The thing is... I have doubts about the SH crew's ability to code even a passable sonar model for a post-WW2 subsim. Hopefully I'm proven wrong, however.

[Rhino1978]

[quote=scrapser]Red Storm Rising had a story behind it. I think this is what made the game what it was. The problem with modern submarine warfare is all the "automation" (wire guided torpedoes, guided anti-surface cruise missiles, anti-air missiles, sonar buoys, decoys, etc.). The main focus is to remain as undetectable as possible and surface action is very limited and actually quite unorthodox, even more than may have occurred in WW2. It just doesn't have the same "hands on" feel to it in my opinion. I also don't see a lot of excitement in nuking an enemy surface fleet or land targets.

Years ago, Microprose was working on a title called, "Destroyer Command" which was supposed to compliment "Silent Service". You would be able to match wits against someone else playing Silent Service on a LAN (today that would be online). It never materialized but I always thought how cool it would be to be manning one of the destroyers escorting a convoy with the AI managing the other DD's. I think the next SH series should move in this direction. Improve the overall sim with lessons learned making SH3 and SH4, expand the "world" to include both ponds, and include being able to man a destroyer if you choose.

Best of all worlds! Most of it is already developed...just need to get the project okayed and a team assembled to put it together and hone the rough spots.[/quot


Im sure i saw Destroyer command or a game much like it in my local GAME store where you could play online as a destroyer and then take on someone online in a sub from sh2 if im not mistaken.Maybe it was a different game but it was "destoyers taking on subs online"

[Takeda Shingen]

I think that comparing SH from World War II to, say, 'Dangerous Waters' or even '688i' is like comparing apples with pears.

First off, the SH-series has created its own atmosphere. The player actually gets a bit of an idea of what it is like to be inside a submarine, and there is a huge sense of freedom. That gives the SH-series an advantage over Dangerous Waters and 688i. Dangerous Waters is 'just' moving from screen-screen to screen-screen - all very sterile.

In the defense of DW, it is a simulation in the purest sense of the word. The Sonaylists simulations have always done a much better job of modeling the systems found aboard each submarine than it's SSI/Ubi counterparts. In short, the 688(i)-SC-DW line have always been the more hardcore sims, and the SH series has always been a little 'gamey-er'.

Frankly, I have always thought that accurate rendition was more important than graphics or general immersion, as innacuracy is the ultimate immersion killer.

[aaronfoster4]

:sunny: imagine having to press the butoon to let off a missile to destroy most of the planet wow:rock: :ping: :rotfl: :arrgh!: :huh:

[Takeda Shingen]

:sunny: imagine having to press the butoon to let off a missile to destroy most of the planet wow:rock: :ping: :rotfl: :arrgh!: :huh:

I would expect that the boomers would not be playable. After all, they are considered too valuable to risk in offensive clandestine operations. As said by a member a few years back when playable SSBNs were discussed in the DW section, the typical course of action would be:

Day 1--Hide
Day 2--Hide
Day 3--Hide
Day 4--Destroy World
Day 5--Hide

[athrunmanly]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/rus/foxtrot-DNST8611159.JPG

sides have enough to nukes to force only n a conventional war from occuring:
foxtrots, victors, charlies on one side and Sturgeons, Permits and skipjacks on the other side

[GoldenRivet]

sure... i can agree that the SH5 should be cold war based, and i think it should.

I would even go so far as to buy it and play it.

the question is, would the average gamer be willing to purchase and play it too? this is what the game companies are going to look at. they dont ask questions like "how fun will it be?" or "how will the guys at subsim like it?" they ask the question "are people all over the world going to go crazy buying this thing as fast as they can like its going out of style to spend 50 bucks on a video game?"

also

we have to remember that cold war submarine activity was pretty much limited to "we will listen to them listening to us!" not a whole lot of shooting went on that im aware of.

so first off your campaign is pretty much going to be limited to the occasional cruise missile strike on some kind of middle of no-where target 300 miles away, or inserting special forces into some jungle hell hole, or intercepting and sinking a freighter or two suspected of carrying biological weapons. right?

so SH5 would basically be "jane's 688i" with a face lift.

dont get me wrong... i love these kinds of games, but with a hot war like WW2 where you have entire flotillas of U-boats out to kill anything that sails the sea... and with cold wars, you have a career spanning something like 40 years during which you might have only fired 2 or 3 shots in RL as a sub commander.

just my two cents worth

[Draewn]

I think SH5 in space would be awesome.

Think about it. You would have more firepower than the entire USN Silent Service of WW2 in your bay (Hooray for shaped-charge nuke torpedoes!), and calculating all the stuff for the TDC or equivilant would be much easier cause you could see everything they do 5 months in advance. Hooooray for time-compression. Of course, Thermodynamics makes stealth pretty much impossible (Gotta radiate that heat SOMEHOW) , but you WOULD still be silent. No sound in space, and all that. Of course, running out of reaction mass would be a real issue, even if your were nuclear powered, if you weren't VERY careful you would end up going to (Insert star here) with no way to turn. Of course, then if you clicked the "Time to end of course" button.... nasty things would happen. (Does my PC's warranty cover spontaneous combustion?)

Maybe this isn't such a good idea...

[aaronfoster4]

sure... i can agree that the SH5 should be cold war based, and i think it should.

I would even go so far as to buy it and play it.

the question is, would the average gamer be willing to purchase and play it too? this is what the game companies are going to look at. they dont ask questions like "how fun will it be?" or "how will the guys at subsim like it?" they ask the question "are people all over the world going to go crazy buying this thing as fast as they can like its going out of style to spend 50 bucks on a video game?"


i would be the first to get it you could make up like topedo attacks and stuff and nuke at only certian times

[mic1184]

i wouldn't really like the cold war scenario for silent hunter.

one of the central arguments in the thread so far was, whether to stick with historical facts (as always) or to have a fictionary campaign.

the silent hunter games (i've played 3 and 4 only) have, as mentioned before, quite a good atmosphere and give the player the feeling of a living world in which happens a lot (at least with the major supermods intalled). Historical correctness has always been an aspect of quality to the game, which is reflected in many modder's efforts to make the campaign as historically correct as possible, even with the proper radio messages at the right time.
why most players have such an intuitive affinity to that corectness of events is simply that many silent hunter players are interested in this field of history also beside the game, read books, etc. So if you know a bit about ww2 u-boat-war, which was simply the greatest and most prominent era of subs, its just infinitely athmospheric if you get a FT in summer 1942 which says "If any ship will assist the ship-wrecked "Laconia" crew, I will not attack providing I am not being attacked by ship or air forces. I picked up 193 men. 4, 53 South, 11, 26 West. — German submarine", The moment of living through these event of actual history are just so much fun.

One the other side, (at least sim-like) games like operation flashpoint demonstrated that you can create an athmospheric fictional campaign. i wouldn't entirely lock my mind up against a fictional silent hunter, but it's hard to imagine though.


Summing all this up, a historically correct cold-war SH5 would be much too boring.
cold-war SH5 with a (semi-)fictional course of events could be fun, but wouldnt be as interesting both on the historic and the technical aspect. As to the technical aspect, it has all been said before here, after WW2 the u-boat's life has lost too many facets: no more surfacing and danger of going surfaced, no more deck-gun usage, no more thrilling depth-charge-hunts, it would very much be limited to extensive sonar- and "fire-and-forget-weapon"-usage. so not for me.

My favorite SH5 would be the universal WW2 (why not have a british campaign, why not have a japanese campaign) with the playable destroyers, maybe a bit more living coasts, and why did i never see a coral reef with sharks in the coral sea? :) there is enough room for new ideas even in the ww2 scenario.

[athrunmanly]

"after WW2 the u-boat's life has lost too many facets: no more surfacing and danger of going surfaced"

thats why i think a sub sim set in the 1958 would also be awesome. Several US boats like Regulus cruise missle launching SSG and the Nuclear powered Hallibut had to surface to fire their missles. while Soviet WHiskeys still had deck guns and weren't equipped with snorkels until 1958! other subs that had to fought surfaced like Whiskey twin cylinder and whiskey long bin would have been hunting the IOWA class battleships which were still in service at that time.

[gimpy117]

no, cause cold wars are boring to play

[Delusory]

I think that cold-war era sub-sim would be too boring. Someone said that "it would be great and thrilling to hunt Soviet subs, while remain undetected", so ok, one mission: "Find out what soviet sub is doing in some area", other mission: "Go to xxxx and fire a balistic missile", another misson: well i can't really figure more missions to do. Go to ports ant take photographs? I really think that such game would get borring very fast.

[tomagabriel]

I do not understand why for some people WWII is not boring and modern era is boring. I really don't. I've spent hours in Sub Command having every single second busy and it was such a rush sometimes! If you ask me, the WWII world has better chance of being boring than the modern one.

Another thing is the NUKE scenario being invoked here again and again.

"blow the world - mission over"

This is so wrong! It is like talking about WWII and saying "smoke on horizon - mission over". There is a lot more than NUKES in the modern subs. Come on! Sometimes I feel people posting here never ever saw a picture of a modern sub. Of course most of you here feel confortable in the WWII waters, but the modern waters exist too and the reason they exist is the same reason such a modern sub sim should also exist. Or perhaps you fear somebody might get your WWII behind with a modern cruise missile ha,ha :arrgh!:

[don1reed]

Hi Tom.

I believe it's just a matter of tastes.

We all tend toward the nostalgic...yesteryear...bygone days.

In comparison, modern subs is like a new religion...difficult to get new conversions and believers without miracles.

WWII subs have a following due to it's wartime track record...it's ingrained in our histories and memories due to the loss of life of the period.

cheers,

[mookiemookie]

I do not understand why for some people WWII is not boring and modern era is boring. I really don't.

I blame that beady-eyed, evil SOB Hyman Rickover. :arrgh!:

[tomagabriel]

"
Atlantic Ocean - A lone South African submarine has left some North Atlantic Treaty Organisation commanders with red faces Tuesday as it "sank" all the ships of the Nato Maritime Group engaged in exercises with the SA Navy off the Cape Coast.

The S101 - or the SAS Manthatisi - not only evaded detection by a joint Nato and SA Navy search party, consisting of several ships combing the search area with radar and sonar; it also sank all the ships taking part in the fleet.

At several times during the exercise that lasted throughout Monday night and Tuesday morning a red square lit up the screens where the surface ships thought the submarine was. but it remained elusive.

...

"


I've just run into this and thought it is a nice example of non-nuclear(bombs) modern kind of situation. Isn't it sweet? Hm... all of the suudden I feel the urge to clasify some contacts... :hmm:

[GSpector]

I really would be interested in either another Cold War or WW2 just as long as it uses accurate Sub info and Navel info.

My biggest pet peeve with SH4 (and I like it a lot) is the use of the US Navy without accurate US Navel items. I would like to see actual time period Rank/Ratings, Medals, Ribbons and badges on a correct uniform.

[Sagal92]

They should make destroyer command 2 with Cls and CAs and maybe some BBs too^^
I would love to drive Admiral Graf Spee or Yamato or Warspite...

[marky]

hell no

no combat i wont buy it

do sumthing original

like the IJN side :up:

[Frostyvegi]

Cold-Ware era sub game that needs ideas to make it more fun and 'entertaining'?

Just get Tom Clancy on the storyboard side of the dev team and he'll come up with senarios and ideas for sub-sub or any naval warfare you can dream of. If just reading something like The Hunt for Red October can get my heart rate up.. putting it into a game would make it so much more intense..

[Takeda Shingen]

Another thing is the NUKE scenario being invoked here again and again.

"blow the world - mission over"

This is so wrong! It is like talking about WWII and saying "smoke on horizon - mission over". There is a lot more than NUKES in the modern subs. Come on! Sometimes I feel people posting here never ever saw a picture of a modern sub. Of course most of you here feel confortable in the WWII waters, but the modern waters exist too and the reason they exist is the same reason such a modern sub sim should also exist. Or perhaps you fear somebody might get your WWII behind with a modern cruise missile ha,ha :arrgh!:

Well, we were talking about boomers. That's what boomers do: Putt around at 2 knots and duck everything that comes by while waiting for the order to start World War III. They are big, strategically valuable and very, very expensive. As such, the USN does not risk them in tactical operations. Accordingly, I have always been uninterested in the premise of a boomer sim. However, no such sim has ever (outside of the SCX supermod) been attempted.

[Hawk_345]

I say stick with ww2, much more interesting and plenty of situations to choose from, cold war, not really anything you could do, it was not a hot war, and with misils and all that technolodgy, what fun will that be, stay with ww2.

[thyro]

Cold War ... ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz great theme... ZZZzzz

few nice rusty subs ... but ZZZZZzzzzzzzz no action....


But how about China invade "made in T***n", US gets involved to protect "made in T***n". The rest of the world follows into the dark era of WWIII where China is the superpower.

Or NCorea launchs a missile, it lands in Jap... Jap retaliate, SCorea is invated by NC... US is called... China gets involved ... voila WWIII rolling.

good theme plenty of fictional action and role play.

WWI/WWII again?!?! is a bit far too much repetition... unless you add StarTrek Ship landing right in the middle of the conflit to make something interesting and different.

BUT above all make a damn good game where player SUBS can be ADDED to the game without much of a pain.