Old friends meeting in mid-air...

[Skybird]

"...and exchanging smiles."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6938856.stm

The world is changing. Again. Probably in a way not many have seriously excepted. At least not expected so soon. Anyone remembering the comments just some yars ago like "The Russians won't be back for the next three generations", and such talkings? :D

[Tchocky]

I read this about 15 minutes ago, and the frontpage page spoke of Russian "jets".

Alright guys, who complained? :p

[Konovalov]

A return to the good old days. ;)

[Camaero]

I can't wait to get back to hating the Russians and calling them commie bastards and being on the brink of nuclear war again! Putin is putting us on the path.

[Kapitan]

Acctually i personaly think its putin making a stand to bush saying his country will no longer be bullied or harrassed by the americans, not only that that he will no longer stand there and watch america use and abuse its "status"

[Polak]

I am glad that we are on the other side this time. :D

[CCIP]

I can't wait to get back to hating the Russians and calling them commie bastards and being on the brink of nuclear war again! Putin is putting us on the path.
Sigh. And I was having a bad enough day already. :(

You know, as someone who's (totally unfairly) experienced the residue of some of these original sentiments, I really really resent that.

[SUBMAN1]

I can't wait to get back to hating the Russians and calling them commie bastards and being on the brink of nuclear war again! Putin is putting us on the path.
Sigh. And I was having a bad enough day already. :(

You know, as someone who's (totally unfairly) experienced the residue of some of these original sentiments, I really really resent that.

I have to agree about the Putin part - he is really putting us on that path.

-S

[Tchocky]

I can't wait to get back to hating the Russians and calling them commie bastards and being on the brink of nuclear war again! Putin is putting us on the path.
Sigh. And I was having a bad enough day already. :(

You know, as someone who's (totally unfairly) experienced the residue of some of these original sentiments, I really really resent that.

CCIP, you're back among the living?
New rig?

[CCIP]

Yup, I've been lurking around for the past few days. It's kinda hard to just jump back in, but I'll be back to action soon enough.

Those dual-cores are sure sweet :D

And eh, again - I don't like Putin, but you know what they say about seeing a straw in another's eye... :roll:

[Chock]

I don't think you quite need to start digging a fallout shelter yet. For years the Russian Air Force was in real neglect following the break up of the Soviet Union, and now they are getting it back in good shape, so it's only natural that they will be flying some sorties of this nature. After all, a long range bomber like the Tupolev's job is to fly long range and bomb stuff (or at least launch missiles, or perform reconaissance), so they have to practice stuff like that.

In any case, its capabilities are not anywhere near the kind of threat they were 30 years ago.

This sortie is not a surprise, several similar ones took place to the edges of UK airspace a few months ago where they observed a large combined forces naval exercise, eventually having been met by Tornados if I recall correctly. Similar probing missions came near to US airspace a few months ago, on that occasion being 'intercepted' by F-15s. It was not a secret, nor deemed a threat, there were even some articles and photos of it in several of the big aviation magazines, and despite how the press like to report on such happenings in a dramatic fashion, they are generally good-natured affairs between the pilots, who often used to pose for photographs and wave to one another during such meetings.

You would have thought the BBC would have actually bothered to note that instead of stating that they believed it was the first one since the end of the Cold War, which it most certainly wasn't. More poor reporting and lax research from some half-assed reporter, who ought to know better than to not bother confirming sources and facts, as this is fundamental to reporting stuff.

:D Chock

[bradclark1]

More poor reporting and lax research from some half-assed reporter, who ought to know better than to not bother confirming sources and facts, as this is fundamental to reporting stuff.
Makes you wonder if editors actually ask their reporters questions or not anymore.

[Tchocky]

Well, it's the first time in a while that they have landed at a US base, surely?

[Rilder]

They were resupplying the base's Vodka... the first steps to an alliance. :p

[bookworm_020]

They were resupplying the base's Vodka... the first steps to an alliance. :p

Some Duty Free shopping???:hmm::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[waste gate]

I guess we can expect the Europeans to start asking for help via NATO from the US soon. What comes around goes around. If it were up to me I'd tell the EU to pound sand and take care of themselves. Russia has an energy strangle hold on much of 'western' Europe. Islam from within and Russian oil and military superiority from the east. How do I put this..........bend over and grab your ankles.

[Reaves]

So the Russians are training young pilots, the end is near!!!


All a load of B.S. The Russians have every right to do operations like this. On the other hand, if they come into Aussie airspace i'll personally knock em out of the air with my laser guided boomerang.

[August]

It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

[waste gate]

[quote=Reaves]So the Russians are training young pilots, the end is near!!!
[quote]

Its not like Guam is close to Russian airspace and this was a training mission. Remember KAL 007. Guam is a well known military installation and it wasn't approached by accident. It was a message. The Russians have made a calculated decision based on world opinion, military rediness, and political expedience visa vis the anti-war movement. If nothing else it shows the danger of being seen as lacking the political will for victory.

[Camaero]

I can't wait to get back to hating the Russians and calling them commie bastards and being on the brink of nuclear war again! Putin is putting us on the path.
Sigh. And I was having a bad enough day already. :(

You know, as someone who's (totally unfairly) experienced the residue of some of these original sentiments, I really really resent that.

Don't really have any problem with the Russian people in general. However, I absolutely despise the Russian government. Just starting with WWII they have been nothing but an enemy to the US and its allies. I love how Stalin was so buddy buddy with Hitler until Hitler invaded Russia. Then the Russians cried for allied help. Of course when we asked for the Russians to help out with the Japs, they refused until the war was almost over, then it was just an easy land grab. Then we have the atrocities done to the Poles, and later what was done to the Germans and the other countries they grabbed. I really wish that Roosevelt would have listened to Churchill and refused the whole treaty. Ok, so let’s move on because I can forgive the Russians for a Stalin just like I can forgive the Germans for a Hitler. The Germans and the Japanese are now a pretty good ally of ours. Cool deal.

But no, then we have the cold war, we have the Russians supplying the enemies of America with weapons in just about every American war after WWII, we have constant skirmishes and close calls that almost destroy the world and it just continues... The Russian government has kept their country so backwards and for so long, it is just amazing. Anyway, I view the Russians as an enemy. How can I not? I have a large hatred for all that they have done and all they continue to do.

[Reaves]

I agree they were sending a message, but I hardly think it deserves a return of cold war thinking. Russia isn't about to attack the USA, they are just banging their chests and making some noise so the rest of the world know they are there. Plus i'm sure they are not the only counry in the world that sends military units to the boarders of other sovereign countries. I find it a bit ridiculous the negative spin the paper put on the story is all.

ie: It finishes with this...

The bombers have the capability of launching a nuclear strike with the missiles they carry.

It is worrying the amount of noise they have been making lately, claiming territory in the Arctic and all. But this story is nothing to be alarmed at.

[waste gate]

It is worrying the amount of noise they have been making lately, claiming territory in the Arctic and all. But this story is nothing to be alarmed at.

That is what was said after the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

I wish folks would just wake and see threats for what they are. Not that I think Russia is a threat to the US until a Democrat reaches the white house but Russia is a threat to any non-nuclear nation.

Our congress is currently filled with surrender monkeys who won't lift a finger for any nation. They are in favor of talking about it however.

[Reaves]

It is worrying the amount of noise they have been making lately, claiming territory in the Arctic and all. But this story is nothing to be alarmed at.
That is what was said after the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

I wish folks would just wake and see threats for what they are. Not that I think Russia is a threat to the US until a Democrat reaches the white house but Russia is a threat to any non-nuclear nation.

Our congress is currently filled with surrender monkeys who won't lift a finger for any nation. They are in favor of talking about it however.


If Russia threatened another country then I certainly would be alarmed. More of the fact that IMO the UN should come down hard on Russia for such an act but I know they would do nothing. Which is unfortunate for the USA as you guys are the only other authority that could penalize her.

What ever happened to my glorious Commonwealth? (But that's a matter for another thread.)

[waste gate]

It is worrying the amount of noise they have been making lately, claiming territory in the Arctic and all. But this story is nothing to be alarmed at.
That is what was said after the bombing of the WTC in 1993.

I wish folks would just wake and see threats for what they are. Not that I think Russia is a threat to the US until a Democrat reaches the white house but Russia is a threat to any non-nuclear nation.

Our congress is currently filled with surrender monkeys who won't lift a finger for any nation. They are in favor of talking about it however.


If Russia threatened another country then I certainly would be alarmed. More of the fact that IMO the UN should come down hard on Russia for such an act but I know they would do nothing. Which is unfortunate for the USA as you guys are the only other authority that could penalize her.

What ever happened to my glorious Commonwealth? (But that's a matter for another thread.)

The UN? As you said it won't happen, and even if it did, where is the power to back-up any UN resolution? The UN is given more credit than it is worth the world over. Why? For the same reason that the EU wants its 'constitution' to have weight based on population. One nation one vote. The UN is there to make lesser nations feel important, and take money, nothing more. You and I would not want to live in most UN nations. The UN as an organization is more than useless.

[Reaves]

The UN as an organization is more than useless.

:yep:

[Chock]

I think they should change the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, just for a laugh.

Here is my suggested new five: Luxembourg, Wales, Mexico, Nepal, and The Galapagos Islands.

:D Chock

[Skybird]

Don't understand the noise. What are the russians doing, that in any way is not being done by western and american forces as well? Spy planes are operating at minimal distances to Russian airspace, for example, and a network or ELINT capable bases has been erected around Russia in recent years.

Not even starting to think about contemporary russian and american sub operations. :)

"We had been distracted until lately, and now we are back." In combination with the approach on Scotland recently, this is the message they tell - not more, not less.

[AntEater]

The bombers have the capability of launching a nuclear strike with the missiles they carry.

That's either total military incompetence or spin doctoring from the media.
Ok, incompetence in military affairs seems to be a trademark of today's journalism.

The Tu-95 is less capable of launching missiles of any sort than the average western P-3 Orion patrol aircraft. The long range comes from using the bomb bay for fuel tanks.
The only weapons of the Bear D are the tail cannons, with which they maybe can launch nuclear 23mm bullets :D

The Tu-95 "Bear D" is simply a reconaissance aircraft BASED on a bomber, not a bomber.
The bomber version is called Tu-142, if i'm correct, as is the ASW version. They look similar but western interceptors would certainly notice the difference. Also the bombers do not have the range of the recon version.
Of course having a recon aircraft based on a bomber does play in the hands of spin doctors. But I'm sure with the economic recovery and all that the russians might soon get a new MPA type, and I can only advise them NOT to base it on a bomber this time :D
Maybe the Beriev Be-200 amphibian?

[Skybird]

The Tu-95 originally was known as Tu-20.

The general design was/is capable to carry nuclear weapons, and missiles.

Variants according to Wikipedia:

Tu-95/1 - Prototype.

Tu-95/2 - Prototype.
Tu-95K - Experimental version for air-dropping a MiG-19 SM-20 jet aircraft.
Tu-95M-55 - Missile carrier.
Tu-96 - high speed bomber project, never got off the ground.
Tu-119 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-119) - Nuclear powered aircraft project. Just like the Tu-96 it did not fly.
Tu-142LL (Letayushchaya Laboratoriya - Flying Laboratory) - Engine testbed aircraft.
Bear A (Tu-95/Tu-95M) - Basic variant of the long-range strategic bomber and the only model of the aircraft never fitted with a nose refuelling probe.
Bear-A (Tu-95U - Uchebnyy) - Training version.
Bear B (Tu-95K/Tu-95KD) - Designed to carry the AS-3 Kangaroo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS-3_Kangaroo) air-to-surface missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-to-surface_missile). The Tu-95KD aircraft were the first to be outfitted with nose probes.
Bear C (Tu-95KM) - Modified and upgraded versions of the Bear B, most notable for their enhance reconnaissance systems. These were in turn converted into the Bear G configuration.
Bear D (Tu-95RTs - Razvedchik Tseleukazatel') - Variant of the basic Bear A configuration, redesigned for maritime reconnaissance and targeting as well as electronic intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_intelligence) (ELINT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELINT)) for service in the Soviet Naval Aviation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Naval_Aviation). This aircraft was featured in Tom Clancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy)'s techno-thriller Red Storm Rising (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Storm_Rising).
Bear E (Tu-95MR) - Bear A modified for photo-reconnaissance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photo-reconnaissance) and produced for Naval Aviation.
Bear F (Tu-142/Tu-142M) - Originally designed as a maritime surveillance aircraft to supplement the Bear D, the Bear F evolved to become the premier anti-submarine warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-submarine_warfare) (ASW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASW)) aircraft of the Soviet Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Navy) during the Cold War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War). The ASW variants were designated as Tu-142M2 (Bear F Mod 2), Tu-142M3 (Bear F Mod 3), and Tu-142M4 (Bear F Mod 4). This aircraft was featured in the 1990 film adaptation of Tom Clancy's The Hunt for Red October (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunt_for_Red_October_%28film%29).
Bear G (Tu-95K22) - Conversions of the older Bear bombers, reconfigured to carry the AS-4 Kitchen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS-4) missile and incorporating modern avionics.
Bear H (Tu-95MS/Tu-95MS6/Tu-95MS16) - Completely new cruise missile carrier platform based on the Tu-142 airframe. This variant became the launch platform of the Kh-55 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-55) (AS-15 Kent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS-15_Kent)) cruise missile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile). The Bear-H was referred to by the U.S. military as a Tu-142 for some time in the 1980s before its true designation became known.
Bear J (Tu-142MR - Morskoy Razvedchik) - Variant of the Bear F modified for use in submarine communications as well as other command, control and communications (C3) duties.
Bear T (Tu-95U) - Training variant, modified from surviving Bear A's but now all have been retired.Several other modification of the basic Tu-95/Tu-142 airframe have existed but these were largely unrecognized by Western intelligence or else never reached operational status within the Soviet military. One of these modified Bears, known as the Tu-95V, was used to drop the Tsar Bomba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba).

[bradclark1]

No big deal. It provides good training to radar and air crews. Tons of fun. Just make sure the planes are loaded.

[JALU3]

As long as they are in international air space . . . it's all good . . . but all actions are done for a reason. Training, flexing of muscle, testing for reflex timing, etc.

As for the talk about the fallout shelters . . . wouldn't it make more sence to build shelters due to the non-rational actors who care not of their own survival? At least rational actors are balanced out, theoretically, due to the MAD theory . . . non-rational actors don't care, because they aren't states, and don't care if they live or die . . . just that their mision is carried out.

But I would love to see our (US/NATO/EU/MNNA) AEW assets modernized, as well as our air defense networks . . . and maybe one day a working ABM system, followed by a reduction of land-based nuclear weapons.

What was the statement . . . "trust, but verify".

[Biggles]

About Putin....anyone else thinks the same as my dad, tht he was an old KGB officer? He thinks that Putin looks like one. Something with the eyes....:hmm: (J/K)

anyway, he'll be gone after 2008 so unless he manage to make some major actions before that OR starts a revolution to stay in power, we won't have much trouble with him for a very long time.

[Skybird]

You already write him off, it seems, and that is a bad mistake.

Too many people have much to loose if he does not stay president, so he is under pressure. And even if he is not in office - that does not mean he has not arranged to maintain his influence.

Good chess players don't think about their next move only - they think about the rest of the match.

[Kapitan]

Putin served in the KGB all his career till it ended in 1991 he then headed the FSB then became premier of russia, this man gained his title in a not well known issue in east germany in 1989 when the russian embassy was surrounded by mobs of people, he was the only one brave enough to face the crowd and did so and the result was everything went back to normal.

That one man took on thousands of people so what if he plans to take on the world, just because the soviet union failed doesnt mean russia is does it?

Russia may not have the economy of the USA but it has one thing that the USA needs and that is support from its people the two votes that secured putins power in two elections years apart were land slides no premier of russia had ever scored such a high vote in an election.

Alot of russians consider him the "new father of russia" or a Tsar infact he is often called the new tsar of russia.

if it wasnt for brezhnevs 2 turn rule i could see putin in the seat for the next 10 years. (bear in mind he has sat in office since 1999)

this sending the bears to the coasts is not new when he first came to power in 1999 he orderd 2 submarines to depart from base one was to head to the pacific and lurk outside pearl harbour and make herself known she did that (submarine name omsk) the second submarine was to head into the mediteranean she did so and with that she caused such a mess the americans would not let any naval vessel near her they sent atleast 6 submarines after her in the 3 weeks that followed.

In the end the submarine (Kursk) was spotted not in the mediteranean but off the coast of canada by a canadian P3C heading home she had darted out of the med and right accross the atlantic un noticed by the americans and then gone along the entire east coast without being detected.

This is nothing new i could garentee some where there is a russian sub out there near the coast of america.

[JALU3]

Some say that the Military Strategies of the Cold War have never ended within Russia, and to a smaller extent, the west. As with all good militaries, they watch their neighbors, and potential threat nations. Whether they do that from the space above, or near their land or sea borders . . . that's their job. Part of it is just rational action, another part of it is to show the other actor that you are able to hit back, if hit.
That is why the UK is looking to renew their SSBN fleet, this is why US planners are looking (long-term) to post-Ohios . . . this is why nations continue to arm themselves, and attempt to modernize.
The ultimate hope is that all this arming is never used . . . but that doesn't mean that you let the sword become dull and rusty.
However, as for the US, we have allowed our detection systems and assets age and go without being replaced. Our ASW capabilities aren't near where they use to be . . . our borders are porous . . . and so on and so forth. We need to reviven our industrial base for the possibility of future stand up. Instead we're letting our industrial capabilites move overseas, and letting the ones that remain wither on the vine.
Lets look at the new National Security Cutter for a perfect example.

[Skybird]

The ultimate hope is that all this arming is never used . . .
Would be a first in history, wouldn't it. But as they say - nothing ever is impossible.

[The Avon Lady]

The camp with a difference,
never mind the weather.
When you come to Vladi's (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/25/wrussia125.xml),
the holiday's forever!

Search around the web for more details of what's preached in these getaways that the mass media drops from their reports.

[Konovalov]

More back to the good old days courtesy of President Putin: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6950986.stm

[Oberon]

In the air, and on the airwaves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6951710.stm

[bigboywooly]

In the air, and on the airwaves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6951710.stm

Any government financed media is propaganda
:rotfl:
Have they listened to the BBC

[JALU3]

In the air, and on the airwaves:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6951710.stm

Any government financed media is propaganda
:rotfl:
Have they listened to the BBC

If so they were really critical of the previous administration . . . so much for government propaganda.