How do you stop flooding? SH-4

[thehiredgun]

I'm in east China Sea & scraped the botton just a bit but D/C even though they have all the credentials does not seem to be able to stop flooding

[tater]

Go to battle stations if you are not already.

Check your crew. There is a damage control area of crew, man it. Have the first spot be a guy with good leadership. I then always put my deck gun crews in there. If you have flooding, fill the DC crew with guys not in the flooded compartments.

Go to the damage screen (default key is y). If the main pump is damaged, fix that right away.

tater

[Mickle]

I always fix the bulkheads first, am I doing this the wrong way round?

[Frederf]

It's my understanding that surfacing is a major contributor to success. Going from 300' to 60' doesn't seem to do much.

[SteveW1]

It took my crew a couple of hours to fix the busted bulkheads in my boat one day we had major flooding as well, finally surfaced and then it still took at least another 12 hours and multiple crew changes to pump out the water and fix the hull. So surfacing is probably a good bet to help.

[tater]

You can fix bulkheads, too, kinda depends on the flooding level. If the main pump is not heavily damaged I can fix it quickly which will control the flooding so the guys can fix the bulkheads.

Not sure what is best, really.

[RockNut]

It's my understanding that surfacing is a major contributor to success. Going from 300' to 60' doesn't seem to do much.


Are you saying that the rate of water entering the boat at 60' depth is essentially the same as at 300'? I wouldn't think so in real life - water pressure should be less at shallower depths and thus enter into the equation of how much water comes through pressure hull leaks.

In other words: less water should enter the sub at 60' than at 300'. Or: with a given leak more water should enter the boat the deeper you get, making flooding progressively worse as taking on water makes your boat heavier and thus go deeper. Unless SH4 does not model this correctly. Anyone know for sure?

I find that repair and especially flooding times seem to be more favorable at shallow depths. But this is by no means a quantified observation. Anyone tested this?

[chopped50ford]

Then that would explain why my DC crew sucks. My officer has crappy leadership skills. Quite frankly, if I had a yeoman position, I would stick him there for the remaining patrol. I guess I better swap him out for a better leader.

What "specialties" should be placed in the DC crew?



Also, at 1000', the pressure of the water is about 444 psi.

300' is a worste place to be than 60'.

Is there an "issue" in the game w/ sea pressures?

[Captain Scribb]

In my experience water depth does affect the amount of flooding and the time it takes to pump out/fix bulkheads. If you are at 60 feet, you have a whole hell of a lot better chance of getting flooding under control, than at 300 feet. In fact, if you are moderately damaged or worse with multiple bulkheads and your pump, and DON'T at least try and come up to periscope depth, you have a good chance of experiencing a spinning death cam.

I think it is situational what to do. Most important, if you CAN surface, do so. If you can hold at periscope depth or at least above 100 ft, then do that. If you are dropping, make sure to attempt to blow ballast multiple times, as you have enough compressed air to do it multiple times. In fact, the most I have ever used was about half of my supply. Also, if you are in deep water but near a more shallow spot, try and make your way there if you are having trouble holding depth. Gives you a possibility of settling on the bottom instead of crushing. If you are in shallow water (90 ft or less), try and find a deeper hole so you have a spot to hide in if enemy vessels are still searching for you. It's all about keeping options of depth open.

If you have moderate bulkhead damage/flooding in multiple compartments, I think you have to make sure your pumps are working first and GET UP as much as is safe. If you have only a single or couple of compartments that are minorly damaged with minor flooding, I would focus on the bulkheads first, and once again limit your depth as much as is safe.

I guess what I am saying is if you think about it from the perspective of each chamber flooding, if it is flooding so that it will be mostly filled way before you can repair it, you have to get your pump going. If you can repair it well before flooding reaches moderate or critical levels, that is preferable. Just my experience, anyway. I make a lot of silly decisions when I am down to my last few torpedoes, but I have consistently made it back home alive despite taking damage. I think on one of my careers everyone on my sub had a purple heart.

Things to never worry about repairing while in combat/submerged: surface guns (can't get to them, most will work manually even when "damaged") one of two periscopes (one will do, 2nd can be repaired when situation is stable), batteries-BUT GET FLOODING UNDER CONTROL ASAP (once damaged, the charge is lost until recharged or sometimes permanently, so repairing them while in combat doesn't give you an advantage and is thus not a priority), diesal engines (don't help you underwater, they can wait).

It's all about focusing on what you NEED to live and evade, and keeping the salt water from ruining your batteries or forcing you down to crush depth.

[-Pv-]

If flooding is slow I do the pump 1st. If fast, I do the bulkhead(s) first.
-Pv-

[RockNut]

In my experience water depth does affect the amount of flooding and the time it takes to pump out/fix bulkheads.
....
snip
...
It's all about focusing on what you NEED to live and evade, and keeping the salt water from ruining your batteries or forcing you down to crush depth.

Very good description, Captain Scribb. It echoes my last patrol experience.

The escorts found me just before I reached position for final periscope observation and torpedo firing. The closest escort dropped on me as I tried to dodge and stay shallow so I could still fire torps after initial evasion. My mistake! Took damage in aft torp room with flooding, but managed get under the thermal layer at 140 feet. Taking on water made me go deeper and deeper without enough time to repair the bulkhead, so I had to speed up and blow ballast to climb. That worked, but the escorts found me again. Evaded the next depth charge run but then took even more damage a minute later, just as the aft torp room leak was fixed. Now I had another leak in the forward torp room to deal with, making water fast and sinking even faster, to near 300 ft. That was nerve-wracking because I had no clue how the damage reduced my crush depth.
So I had to blow ballast again, managed to avoid surfacing and then slowly sank again while my damage control crew struggled with repairs. But I sank to 280 feet (very uncomfortable now...) and had to blow ballast yet again. This time I topped out at 100 feet and began sinking again soon after that. It was enough to buy me time to evade the next attack run at flank speed and get the flooding under control. Speeding up seemed to help control depth, also causing the escorts to keep after me. Depth control was still iffy for a while but I eventually managed to sneak away below the thermal layer, near 180 feet and at 2 kts. Now I was so low on compressed air that I could have only blown ballast one more time... Pump was fixed, forward battery out, both periscopes destroyed, diesel engine damage, radio damaged... I halted repairs after fixing the pump by going silent again.
Better to try sneaking away when possible instead of having repair noise attract the escorts again. I survived and made it back to base. All this could have been avoided if I went deep at first detection - instead of trying to stay shallow to launch torps. But that wouldn't be fun, would it?

[Snuffy]

I always fix the bulkheads first, am I doing this the wrong way round?

First thing I check are the pumps. If the pumps are damaged fix them first, that's your means of getting the water out of your boat.

Once the pumps are fixed, I do bulkheads next cuz that keeps the water from spreading to other compartments.

Oh, and my DC crew is a team all unto itself. So all my personnel slots on my sub are filled to capacity.

[Captain Scribb]

I don't like how/what I said about pumps earlier. I don't know if I just didn't express myself well or was just having a moment. If your pump is damaged, you should almost always repair ASAP. The only exception would be if you had absolutely minimal bulkhead damage to one or two compartments, and needed to make the minimum time repairs to go back to silent running and evade. Sorry for the oversight. You guys are right on, Pv and Snuffy.

[Captain_AJ]

In Reality D/C teams in sh4 Just plain SUCK !! . I consider one of this as a drawback ! Unlike Sh3 the german crews were very Good ,, And in My opinion Sh3 D/C treams were more user freindly .. Anyone afraid too admit this ??

[con20or]

Make sure you arent at silent running, pumps are turned off at S.R.

[-Pv-]

"...Anyone afraid too admit this ??..."

I'm not afraid to insist you're wrong. You would also have to ignore the many stories posted here and in other threads on how the DC team saved the boat for many players.

The game is coded such that every player is going to have a different experience based on damage level, skill of the player, quality of the sub (not every class of sub is the same and not every sub in a class is the same) and skill of the crew (both the normal crew and the DC crew.)

You also have to understand the DC crew is an "enhancement" to the normal crew, not the total contribution to the repair effort. The crew on station is the PRIMARY repair crew. The DC crew adds bonus to the capability of the crew IN THE DAMAGED COMPARTMENT(s) by adding to the crew's effort where the damage is. You can even increase this capability one step further by shuffling the crew during high damage states by taking the most experienced crew from undamaged areas and temporarily placing them in the most damaged areas and moving wounded crew out of the damaged areas.

-> Skill of the player (fast, careful decision making, effective crew maintenance)
-> Quality of the particular sub (if any previous damage and damage resistance of your particular sub)
-> Quality of the regular crew (high effiency and low fatigue)
-> Quality of the DC crew (50% efficiency or less is a poor crew)

Repair in SH3 was magical. Repair in SH4 is realistic. You have to learn how to play the game effectively to get the enjoyment out of it the devs intended. Rather than fight the design and insist on playing the game the way YOU would have designed it. Play it the way it was meant to be played and you will discover the game is not as shallow as it 1st appears.

It isn't like FPS where you can take 20 bullets, roll over the power-up and be in perfect health. The idea is to make good decisions that prevent catastrophic damage, that way when you do get damage from the psudo random elements in the game (bad luck and limited situational awareness) the damage is at a managable level.

SH3 and SH4 have many core elements they share, but the crew is not one of them. In this respect there is no simularity. Upgrade the crew in port frequently, rest them, don't drive them at high CPU warp through storms on the surface, when damaged turn off Silent Running, don't leave crew on Battle Stations when not needed, Direct the DC crew priority list (the computer doesn't always select the optimum order by default.) Place the best crew in critical areas including leadership. Shuffle the crew during damage. If you play the game on auto, you will get poor satisfaction. Involve yourself in the game, learn it, take advantage of the bonuses built into it and the satisfaction level will climb dramatically.

-Pv-

[RockNut]

The way SH4 handles damage control has taught me a new appreciation for avoiding damage in the first place. SH3 was much more forgiving with respect to that.

[joea]

In Reality D/C teams in sh4 Just plain SUCK !! . I consider one of this as a drawback ! Unlike Sh3 the german crews were very Good ,, And in My opinion Sh3 D/C treams were more user freindly .. Anyone afraid too admit this ??

PV is right, you are wrong.:roll: SH3 WAS magical repair. SH4 DC and crew management is far better, more detailed and realistic.

[THE_MASK]

"...Anyone afraid too admit this ??..."


The game is coded such that every player is going to have a different experience based on damage level, skill of the player, quality of the sub (not every class of sub is the same and not every sub in a class is the same) and skill of the crew (both the normal crew and the DC crew.)

You also have to understand the DC crew is an "enhancement" to the normal crew, not the total contribution to the repair effort. The crew on station is the PRIMARY repair crew. The DC crew adds bonus to the capability of the crew IN THE DAMAGED COMPARTMENT(s) by adding to the crew's effort where the damage is. You can even increase this capability one step further by shuffling the crew during high damage states by taking the most experienced crew from undamaged areas and temporarily placing them in the most damaged areas and moving wounded crew out of the damaged areas.

-> Skill of the player (fast, careful decision making, effective crew maintenance)
-> Quality of the particular sub (if any previous damage and damage resistance of your particular sub)
-> Quality of the regular crew (high effiency and low fatigue)
-> Quality of the DC crew (50% efficiency or less is a poor crew)

Repair in SH3 was magical. Repair in SH4 is realistic. You have to learn how to play the game effectively to get the enjoyment out of it the devs intended. Rather than fight the design and insist on playing the game the way YOU would have designed it. Play it the way it was meant to be played and you will discover the game is not as shallow as it 1st appears.

It isn't like FPS where you can take 20 bullets, roll over the power-up and be in perfect health. The idea is to make good decisions that prevent catastrophic damage, that way when you do get damage from the psudo random elements in the game (bad luck and limited situational awareness) the damage is at a managable level.


-Pv-
Best thing ever wrote in these threads in my opinion .

[chrysanthos]

can i ask about spheres collision here?

[I'm goin' down]

Make sure you arent at silent running, pumps are turned off at S.R.

Leave it to the Irish to make a practical and really useful suggestion. :yeah: My boat is looking for a first mate. You busy? Pay is not great, but we are the tip of the spear and feared by the enemy.

[Armistead]

HIstorically it would matter, in game flood rates aren't effected by what depth you're at, however, damage rates effect your crush depth.

I usually fix bulkheads first, then pumps, seems to me you need to stop the flooding before pumping. If you notice in game water will only be pumped once the bulkhead is repaired.

Pumps still pump in the game with SR on.


The bigger issue for me is with the amount of flooding can I keep control of my boat from heading to the depths. If the enemy is still attacking and I can't surface and my sub is headed for the bottom you need speed to keep your sub going up or at least not going down, so I fix batteries quickly.

If you notice flooding, check the compartment for the repair time and flood time. If the compartment is going to flood in 5 minutes, taking 80 minutes to repair, you may want to repair minor things that help you right away, such as batteries or another bulkhead with less damage. Simply, if one compartment is going to flood regardless, I'm fixing something else first.

Flooding becomes a big issue when you're still under attack and trying to control out of control dives with yo yo tactics. I can usually yo yo between 200-400 ft with an out of control sub with up to 3 flooded compartments as long as I have some speed, the more the better. Course it's hard evading the enemy using speed, blowing tanks, etc....but better than heading for the bottom.