When will DX10 video cards be needed?

[fredbass]

I was looking into getting my crossfire edition card the other day, then it dawned on me that I probably would be getting Vista and a DX10 card to go along with it in the near future.

So my question is .... when is it time? I don't think AMD/ATI even have a card ready yet. I don't think I need a DX9 crossfire card now if it won't be too long for the other, or will it be a while?

[Dowly]

The upcoming BIG games are already using the DX10 alongside with DX9. Crysis, Alan Wake, World in Conflict. But in my opinion, it'll take a minimum of 6 months before Vista will be stable enough for me to get it. So, it's really up to you. Cheap DX10 cards already are better than most of the top end DX9 cards.

[Nightmare]

Even if you don't upgrade to Vista to use DX10, an 8800GTX is faster than any of the DX9 cards (and them running in Crossfire on SLI). Makes it a great upgrade that'll carry you over to when Vista hits it prime and most games go DX10.

[JSLTIGER]

DX10 cards are here now. Even if you're not specifically looking for DX10 performance, the DX10 cards (nVidia's Geforce 8 series and AMD/ATi's Radeon HD series) tend to outperform their previous generation DX9 counterparts in DX9.

At this point, AMD/ATi DOES have a line of DX10 cards out, the Radeon HD 2900/2600/2400 line, but the performance of those cards in certain areas is weak, making the nVidia GeForce 8 series a better buy at this point in time (unless you have had a truly terrible experience with an nVidia card).

[fredbass]

I just talked to my custom pc builder. Looks like my motherboard won't work with the Nvidia card so if I want the 8800GTX, he's going to probably need to switch boards unfortunately, plus I'll need to go ahead and get Vista because the DX10 card needs to run on Vista. He also said that Vista SP1 will be out in October according to his sources.

So anyway, I'm getting some numbers crunched as we speak.

[Nightmare]

I just talked to my custom pc builder. Looks like my motherboard won't work with the Nvidia card so if I want the 8800GTX, he's going to probably need to switch boards unfortunately, plus I'll need to go ahead and get Vista because the DX10 card needs to run on Vista. He also said that Vista SP1 will be out in October according to his sources.

So anyway, I'm getting some numbers crunched as we speak.
Don't hold your breath as to an October release date for SP1 for Vista. I've read everything from October to all the way to December of 08 for SP1 release. Nothing official has been released from MS as to when to expect it, and as October is right around the corner, I’d expect to hear a lot more about it (like we did with SP1 and SP2 with XP).

Why would your motherboard not work with an Nvidia cards? If it’ll take an ATI, it’ll take an Nvidia. If it's a Crossfire motherboard, you can still run a single Nvidia card (won't run SLI however). If you only have a AGP slot for your card then you’ll need to get a new motherboard with a PCI-E slot to run the new generation of cards.

Also, you do not need to run Vista to run an 8800 series card. Who ever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about. Yes, you’ll need to run Vista to run DX10 games, but you can still run XP running current DX9 games. As no real DX10 game has been released yet, it shouldn’t keep you from making your purchase now if you wanted to.

I’m running XP SP2 with an 8800GTS and it runs fine (not to mention it’s smoking fast). The only issue with these new generation cards is you need to good, fast, current CPU to get the most out of them.

[Dowly]

Like nightmare said, the guy you talked to doesnt seem to know much about what he's saying. If your motherboard can take PCI-e cards, it can take the 8800.

And Vista is only needed for using the DX10, the 8800 comes with both DX9 & 10 capabilities.

I upgraded my 7800 to 8800 and it works, with WinXP installed.

[hoagiedriver]

I'm guessing it won't be mandatory until late 08, 09 timeframe.

[SUBMAN1]

Well, considering there is little difference between DX9 and DX10, I'm not real keen to go out and purchase a new board myself right now. I was thinking about adding a second x1900 XTX to my system though in the short term.

With NVidia making MS pul the plug on the new memory architecture in DX10 (Their 8800 series was broken and couldn't work with the new DX10 without MS caving in), there is actually no reason why DX10 can't be back ported to XP either. For the most part, I don't think DX10 in its current form will offer any visual enhancement that is noticable over DX9 now. So why bother?

If you want to see what I mean - load up the PTBoats DX9 vs DX10 demo and see for yourself. THere is no visual enhancement between the two - and don't tell me that one is brighter than the other - this is done so that you can see which is which, because without one being darker, you can't tell the difference!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Here is the scoop on MS backpedalling for NVidia's broken 8800 line:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40913

DX10 is do-able on Windows XP

Microsoft backpedals for Nvidia, you lose

By Charlie Demerjian (javascript:__doPostBack('article_body$lnkEmailFor m','')): Wednesday 11 July 2007, 08:56


EVER WONDER WHY MS refuses to release DX10 for XP, forcing users to Linux, and barring that, Vista - also known as Me II? It is easy, there was a technical reason, but it shot that down when Nvidia couldn't cut it. Now it is simply arm twisting.

The original reason was that DX10 required graphics memory to be virtualisable, a laudable goal. You can see hints of it here (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1941407,00.asp) and here (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/directx_10_graphics_preview/page8.asp) among other places. This was a good thing, perhaps a really good thing, and Microsoft was clamping down on requirements with the usual subtlety of a convicted monopolist.


This would not work with XP, and that was fine and dandy. It was an honest technical reason why you could not backport DX10 to XP without a major rip and replace operation. Microsoft wasn't going to bend on this one at all.


Then something odd happened. Nvidia had about as much success implementing this required feature as it did with it Me II drivers, that is to say, none. It couldn't do it, but it was required for DX10. What's an arm twisting Vole to do? Backpedal obviously.


So, MS threw NV a life preserver and made GPU memory virtualisation completely optional. ATI, which had implemented a dandy memory virtualisation scheme got screwed, or at least got what everyone who partners with MS got. Oh wait, I said that.


In any case, in doing this, MS removed the only impediment to backporting DX10 to XP, it is now, and has been for quite a while, completely possible. MS is screwing its customers to force an upgrade and you are a pawn in their revenue generation scheme.


Sadly, I will admit that I did upgrade. I went from XP to Ubuntu and bought a Wii. Life could not be better now, gaming is fun again, and spyware is a distant memory. µ

[Konovalov]

I'm not getting a Dx10 graphics card just for the sake of it being Dx10. I'm waiting on the 2nd generation of DX10 cards in the mid-high range. In other words a 2nd generation equivalent of the 8800GTS card that will compliment mt brand new Samsung SM226BW 22" widescreen that turned up today. :rock: No idea how long it will be for 2nd generation cards though. As mentioned by a few others, Dx10 hasn't blown me away so far thanks to various factors. :down:

[hoagiedriver]

I'm guessing it won't be mandatory until late 08, 09 timeframe.I should probably explain this better.

At the earliest, games that are exclusively DX10 won't show up until late 08/09 timeframe.

Also, those games will be produced by Microsoft, in a not-so-subtle hint you's betters upgrade!

[fredbass]

I think I'm going to pass on the 8800 now. Though it should work with XP, my motherboard definitely would need to be replaced if I used it anyway. It's the Abit AT8 32x which is designed for ATI cards so I might just end up getting my x1900 xfire edition after all. Besides, if I replaced the board, I'd end up replacing the processor and memory as well so it's ending up being more than I intended to invest anyway.

Thanks for all the info gang.

[SUBMAN1]

I think I'm going to pass on the 8800 now. Though it should work with XP, my motherboard definitely would need to be replaced if I used it anyway. It's the Abit AT8 32x which is designed for ATI cards so I might just end up getting my x1900 xfire edition after all. Besides, if I replaced the board, I'd end up replacing the processor and memory as well so it's ending up being more than I intended to invest anyway.

Thanks for all the info gang.
If you have a PCI-E bus, why not get an 8800 GTS? That is the best bang for the buck now. Not sure who is telling you it won't run, because that is BS. Sounds like someone wants to charge you for a system upgrade.

I guess the ultimate question is - what type of BUS does your MB support?

-S

PS. The more I read your posts - the more I realize you're getting screwed. A DX10 board does not need to run on Vista - works fine under DX9 under XP. I hope your custom PC builder can tell you why you would want different?

[Dowly]

I think I'm going to pass on the 8800 now. Though it should work with XP, my motherboard definitely would need to be replaced if I used it anyway. It's the Abit AT8 32x which is designed for ATI cards so I might just end up getting my x1900 xfire edition after all. Besides, if I replaced the board, I'd end up replacing the processor and memory as well so it's ending up being more than I intended to invest anyway.

Thanks for all the info gang.
If you have a PCI-E bus, why not get an 8800 GTS? That is the best bang for the buck now. Not sure who is telling you it won't run, because that is BS. Sounds like someone wants to charge you for a system upgrade.

I guess the ultimate question is - what type of BUS does your MB support?

-S

PS. The more I read your posts - the more I realize you're getting screwed. A DX10 board does not need to run on Vista - works fine under DX9 under XP. I hope your custom PC builder can tell you why you would want different?

:yep:

[Reaves]

A mobo and GFX card built for Vista still works on XP, i know because I have both.

I recently upgraded to the 8800 ultra :rock:and got myself an OEM version of Vista 64 with it. (Works cheaper getting OEM windows)

Unfortunately I think I got a dud with my 8800 and it's currently in the shop so they can acknowledge that it's a dud. I spent days doing everything possible to stop the thing crashing my PC but no luck.

Still, if you need to upgrade your card get an 8800. They play any game out maxed and it should last plenty of time until you will need to upgrade again.

[JSLTIGER]

I concur with Reaves...an 8800 series will serve you just fine for the future. From someone who uses it (at least the 32-bit version), Vista is not a big deal at all (though if you want to stick with XP that's fine too) and almost everything hardware-wise out there should still work with XP (just a matter of getting drivers in most cases).

[Godalmighty83]

Here is the scoop on MS backpedalling for NVidia's broken 8800 line:

iam sorry but you couldn't have found a worse source for info then theinquirer

i would rather trust fox news.

[SUBMAN1]

Here is the scoop on MS backpedalling for NVidia's broken 8800 line:
iam sorry but you couldn't have found a worse source for info then theinquirer

i would rather trust fox news.

I disagree with you completely. I think you are mixing these guys up with the same guys who are on the supermarket news stand. Two different entities, and this paricular etentity is very reliable! :up: Your supermarket counterpart - I'd have to agree - they think there are aliens on Mars! :damn:

-S