this is still stupid

[supposedtobeworking]

Destroyer rammed my periscope and blew up into flames...i thought this has been dealt with...talk about an immersion killer....it was funny the first time...now it is just stupid and silly and ruins the game..is there a fix for this yet?

[SteamWake]

Nope...

Same as SH3.

Just try to not get into that situation is all I can say.

[switch.dota]

I've never had a DD ram me unless I was surfaced (wtf was I doing on the surface with warships around?!) or diving (again, I should have been under the waves for a long time). That is unless I abused the face that DDs are idiots that siucide (i.e. running flank at 2-3m above peri depth to attract DDs :rotfl: ).

It's not really an immersion killer when you get rammed since you should not be in that possition if you're so much into atmosphere.

[Xelif]

Oh, it's an immersion killer. I got 'rammed' by a DD after being forced to the surface from massive flooding. By all rights I should have been dead, these are the times when you think "last ditch survival attempt", firing all guns and torpedoes while suffering a hail of gunfire in response. Instead the DD can't hit the broadside of a barn with guns, and then explodes after running over my aft deck!

At that point I said, "What the heck!" I opened fire on the remaining DD with my deck gun and sank her quite handily, while taking exactly one hit in return. :rotfl:

I think I gave up on that career as I felt I should have, by all rights, died. I try to avoid similar situations now :)

[supposedtobeworking]

Yes as despicable as the bug is having been allowed into the released game, you cannot help but laugh when it does happen. Everytime it happens is when I am in a desperate situation much like the one you described, and it is like some miracle occurs as the DD bursts into flames. All of the sudden you get this confidence and start to take on the rest of the surfaced escorts in a momentary rush of invulnerability.

Another thing I have noticed is that planes sometimes destruct and crash into the ocean in a big fireball after dropping their ordinance. This has happened two times now. I have been bombed and died three times in a row on first patrol...does anyone use mods to tone down the planes? I am using stock 1.3 with some mods including tater's campaign mod. It's kind of getting old but maybe i am not alone.

[Excalibur Bane]

Hrm. That's nothing. Not ten minutes ago, on my way back to end my patrol at Brisbane, I picked up an aircraft on radar. Feeling somewhat lucky and given that he was approaching from aft (My gato still has early war conning tower with the single aft AA mounting) I decided to remain on the surface and try my luck taking it out.

When it came into visual range, it was a Betty, I wasn't feeling terribly lucky anymore. I was hoping it was going to just be a Zero, not a damn bomber. At any rate, realizing it was too late to dive, I quickly threw it into flank and started zagging like crazy. Ordered my AA gunner to open fire. Event window opened up, he was coming straight at me. Fortunately my gunner was spot on, and it switched to his death animation. I watched proudly as the Betty went down in flames...which then turned to horror as I realized it was coming straight at me.

There wasn't much I could do, I had about a second or so before he came screaming out of the sky and....bounced off the aft of my sub, then continued to flip end over end over end, until finally resting in the sea and sinking. I got all that nasty metal clashing effect and no damage at all. I just kinda sat there for a second scratching my head. :doh:

So, yeah, immersion breaking? Yup. There's something about a...those impolite aircraft bouncing off my submarine that ruins my immersion! :shifty:

Ahem. Sorry, that just totally ruined the entire patrol for me. :(

Edited by Drebbel: No blasphemy please

[supposedtobeworking]

well the devs had a sense of humor i guess. I think I am going to take a break from SH4 and go back to the atlantic for a while. Too many bugs for me lately and I can't hit anything...and planes and DDs self destruct...unfortunately SH4 has a ways to go yet to fulfill its potential of what it should have been and could have been.

[joea]

well the devs had a sense of humor i guess. I think I am going to take a break from SH4 and go back to the atlantic for a while. Too many bugs for me lately and I can't hit anything...and planes and DDs self destruct...unfortunately SH4 has a ways to go yet to fulfill its potential of what it should have been and could have been.

You're not paying attention, same problem with DDs (and planes) in SH3. :roll:

[switch.dota]

The collision model routines weren't touched in-between the two games, apparently.

[supposedtobeworking]

I have played SH3 for a while and come to think of it I never noticed this problem...was it corrected in GWX or is it still there because I am sure I have been rammed before by a DD and I don't remember it bursting into flames like in SH4. The first time I saw this happen was in SH4 and it was such a surprise. Maybe I have been lucky in SH3--I also never remeber planes crashing into the ocean right after dropping their ordinance---is that in SH3 too? In any case it is not just the ramming exploding DDs, but I am also getting bored of missing ships left and right. I am still going to practice but the imperial system seems so counter intuitive and I cannot bring myself to play an american subsim with metric measurements...its just too weird going from SH3. I am also still having problems with speed estimation despite following steps mentioned in other threads...so break time I guess. thanks for all the help.

[heartc]

Yes, at least the DDs blowing up were already there in SH3 - on the other hand, I didn't have planes crashing into the ocean for no apparent reason in either one.

While it is idiotic that the DDs should blow up on ramming your boat, the solution is rather simple: Got rammed? Quit the mission and delete your Skipper. Because this was what happened about 100% more often than the destroyer detonating on contact.

I am still going to practice but the imperial system seems so counter intuitive and I cannot bring myself to play an american subsim with metric measurements...its just too weird going from SH3. I am also still having problems with speed estimation despite following steps mentioned in other threads...
The American TDC system is far superior to the German version. While the German system is just an Angle Solver for one point in time, the US Navy system is continuesly computing the current target position and gyro angles in real time, depending on the data you entered and ownship movements.

A nice side effect of this is that you can even CHECK your fire solution before engaging - you are basicly checking the computed target position against actual target position to decide whether the torpedoes "know" on what gyro angle to run: When the computed relative target bearing stays identical to the actual relative target bearing you see through the scope, the gyro angles WILL be right and you WILL hit the target (assuming the Torps aren't duds). No matter if speed, range or AOB are accurate: They might all be wrong, but when the bearings match, the errors in speed, range and AOB are nullifieing themselves - when the bearings match over a period of time, the gyro angle will have the correct "lead". Still, update target bearing one last time before you fire, just to have the latest data.

When the bearings don't match and the computed relative target bearing is outrunning the sighted relative target bearing, decrease target speed. When it is lagging behind the sighted relative target bearing, increase target speed. Done.

It is simple. Could you check your solution for accuracy in SH3 before firing, with a 1 second glance? Didn't think so.
I think the problem with the US TDC system is that a lot of people haven't yet understood that it is different and easily superior to the U-Boat system, so many don't know how to properly use it and its advantages. I remember in earlier TDC threads when people complained that the target bearing wasn't automatically locked to the scope all the time - ahem, no, sorry, but this is what your electric mechanical COMPUTER is there for, and then some.

Also, my guess is that in both games, a lot of people can't get rid of this "I calculate everything on the map" approach vs target observation. I'm sure plenty of people who went to manual targetting did not really consider the principle behind it and how each data influences the gyro angle, but read some highly complicated calculation tutorial on the net, then go on straight from there, get into a hassle while attempting this in-game and shoot from way out. While in both games ZERO calculations are neccessary when you shoot from within 1500 yards, the distance that was also advised iRL, and SH4's TDC is even *telling* you whether you will hit or not and in which way your solution is off.

[heartc]

Oh, btw for the above approach better refrain from using that chronometer thingy people were whining for. It takes too long to come up with a decent speed, especially when AOB is anything other than 90°, and range needs to be spot on or the speed will be bollocks. Take range, enter AOB from what you see, and - for merchants - start of with a target speed of about 7 knots (enter that manually). Get the Position Keeper going. Then work from there (adjust speed if neccessary as per the method described above). When the computed target bearing and sighted bearings stay the same, you will hit (computed target bearing you see on the inner ring's 12oc position of the lower left hand dial - hint: when you move the mouse cursor over it, you'll get a digital readout). Really easy. Hint: Seek a spot on the ship to compare them, like a mast or smokestack - not the whole ship, which would be too inaccurate. BTW, with this method range will be almost irrelevant so you can stop using the ship recognition manual, which is a waste of time (except when you go for below keel shots).

Also this is how it was done iRL. While iRL they indeed plotted the solution from way out, especially once radar was available, they also checked if the "bearings match" all the time once visual contact was made, which means doing exactly what I described above.

[supposedtobeworking]

ok ok you sold me, I am going to give it another go. I have heard most of what you are advising before but you make it sound so easy and absolute I can't resist. One of the things I enjoy about plotting things on the map is the idea of the logic and absoluteness of it and the assurance that math works...on the other hand...checking the bearings on the TDC/PK works as well and extremely well according to you...I believe you so I am going to start up SH4. thanks for all of the tips heartc

[heartc]

Glad I could help, you are welcome! And as per your other thread, it seems to be working for you now - well, no surprise really, because it works for me, too, and so did it for them iRL.
Of course, you can still plot on the map to your heart's content, but the above method is
a) faster
b) simpler
c) provides feedback about the accuracy of the solution (granted, when plotting from long range on the map and the solution is accurate then the bearings should match as well)
d) is historically accurate (in RL they plotted additionally, but the skipper didn't need the plotting party for shooting, he needed it for an initial speed estimate and to maneuver his boat into a proper position, track escorts etc. Shooting was done from the scope, with last minute changes by the skipper).

Of course people may plot and it is not less historical, that's not what I want to say - but if you are *not* familiar with the method described above you are missing out on the capabilities of the TDC/PK, making life harder than need be which *then* is actually less historically accurate.

BTW: Remember to seek out a specific spot on the ship and keep it in order to compare the bearings. When you use the lock function of the scope, this will of course always be some point midships.
The more those bearings stay the same, the more accurate your solution, the longer the run time of the torp and thus range may be (since error increases with time) for you to still hit the target. Really try to make those bearings keep matching exactly, then your solution is perfect. But in any case, the closer you can get to your target, the better. Then, before you fire, send the bearing one last time to the TDC (via range transmission, as this is the only way bearing will be sent, too) - even if the bearings did drift apart from each other slightly, by making a final bearing correction you will "reset" the error back to zero, and if it was small enough, the torp will probably still hit, just not in the exact spot you took the bearing from.

[micky1up]

Destroyer rammed my periscope and blew up into flames...i thought this has been dealt with...talk about an immersion killer....it was funny the first time...now it is just stupid and silly and ruins the game..is there a fix for this yet?


maybe the destroyer heard your anal drivel and self destructed lol

[SteamWake]

Destroyer rammed my periscope and blew up into flames...i thought this has been dealt with...talk about an immersion killer....it was funny the first time...now it is just stupid and silly and ruins the game..is there a fix for this yet?


maybe the destroyer heard your anal drivel and self destructed lol

Thanks for the contribution ? :dead: