Successful blind attack

[NicaNavy]

Fellas,

I purchased SH4 a couple of months ago and have been monitoring your posts to find out how to play the game correctly. I have never played the game before, or its old versions. Needless to say that all of you have become my instruction mannual. I really like the exchange of great tips and information that all of you provide. Now that I'm getting more confortable with the game, I decided to register and start posting in the forum.

I was wondering if there is a way to conduct a successful torpedo attack without ever raising the periscope. If so, would someone please post the instructions on how to do it?

I still have not tried to use the sonar and radar for anything, and I would like to start working with them. Specially now that patch 1.3 has corrected so of the problems. I would appreciate some tips on how use them effectively, and when to use them.

I would really appreciate any help that you guys can offer. Thanks in advance.

[Seaman_Hornsby]

Welcome aboard! There is a good sonar attack tutorial from WernerSobe here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=112591

And all kinds of stuff here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=108931

[BlackSpot]

Welcome aboard. I can't answer any of your questions because I'm an idiot.:o
Welcome all same.

[Mush Martin]

it was doctrine to do so at the beginning of the war. the USN doctrine
required captains to shoot from a depth of 100' on generated hydrophone
bearings using a spread of torpedos as they had no homers. inspite
of strong pressure from above some of the early captains defied this
and fought their boats at periscope or attack/radar depth. their
refusal to follow brought results where those that followed doctrine
washed out almost to a man.

I dont know where to find the max torpedo launch depth setting in sh4
but you lower that max depth setting to something like 30m or so.
the gist of it is, using hydraphones and charting determine by marks
the approximate speed and course of the target as best you can.
figure out the time approximately it will take for your torpedos to reach
the target and howmuch distance your target will cover after they are
fired. (assuming you are aiming the boat dead ahead in the firing direction)
set a spread and fire if your boat is not aligned then go to peri screen
and raise the periscope a few inches out of the housing so you can see
the bearing marks and aim the periscope onto the appropriate firing bearing
and then fire a spread.

this method has a very poor chance of success without homers.
best to read the tut on hydrophone attack and TMA
M

[NicaNavy]

Thanks Hornsby. That video tutorial is a real jewel.

[Seaman_Hornsby]

Thanks Hornsby. That video tutorial is a real jewel.

No problem, and good hunting!

[SteamWake]

Thanks Hornsby. That video tutorial is a real jewel.

Indeed it is... Salute... and good hunting.. and welcome to the fourms.

[switch.dota]

One word of caution:

While using hydrophones + active sonar and plotting is enough to generate a firing solution (one that works best when no enemy destroyer is around to DC you to death), make absolutely SURE the ships is actually an ENEMY vessel. My first successful blind firing solution resulted in 2/3 hits on a T3 Tanker sailing under US flag. Typhoony wheather had prevented visual contact. The only thing that gave it away was the "Friendly Unit Destoryed" message I got after the 2nd Torpedo Impact.

[WernerSobe]

thats the risk you take. You should only perform a blind attack where friendly units cannot be assumed. Close to japan in example, you wont find T3 tankers there.

[AVGWarhawk]

That video is just great. I watched in a few weeks back and attempted a blind attack. It worked great. I then got an opportunity again with a night/bad weather attack...again, worked like a charm.:up:

[momo55]

Those videotutorials of WernerSobe realy deserve a sticky place .:rock:

[ryanwigginton]

Excellent tutorial! Now its time to give it a try. :doh:

[sqk7744]

Welcome! Yes, the vids are very good! Sobe Academy

[ryanwigginton]

OMG! That's so cool. Got a hit with 1 out 2 torps on my first attempt at this. It really works a treat. First sailed just aft of the props. The spread on the second torp hit the sweet spot. Damn thing was a yank liberty cargo though... :shifty:

[Frederf]

Tried a blind attack last night and what a rush! Heavy fog, 2nd or 3rd hit on a convoy so I knew speed and course and that they were Nips. Sunk down to 349' and waiting using only the hydrophones until they sounded close. Popped up to 90' just as they were arriving (350' to 90' takes 3:00 in the Gato) and unleashed a spread of 6 torps on a single target.

I picked the loudest sound contact and only used 3 pings for range to confirm it wasn't 200 miles away (2,000 yrds and 20,000 yrds sound so similar on the phones).

Immediately dived back down to 350' after launching and listened. 2 hits, 1 dud, and 3 misses. Sank a 7400 ton merchant without ever seeing it! Probably wouldn't anyway in the heavy fog. The escorts had exactly 0 idea what was going on. No pings or DCs at all.

I'm hooked on this method for poor weather shooting. Saves tons of time on the evading end of things plus avoids you getting run over in the fog. Lots of times in heavy fog I can just barely make out the outline of a ship before I get inside minimum range anyway. I may even start doing it for fair weather shots. I'm going to have to look up the torpedo spread info in the .pdf manual again. 6 sounds like too many unless it's a tanker.
And it's historical :up:

[MobyGrape]

:up: :up: :up: Yes/This method is Great..Thanks to Werner.Aloha

[NicaNavy]

Tried a blind attack last night and what a rush! Heavy fog, 2nd or 3rd hit on a convoy so I knew speed and course and that they were Nips. Sunk down to 349' and waiting using only the hydrophones until they sounded close. Popped up to 90' just as they were arriving (350' to 90' takes 3:00 in the Gato) and unleashed a spread of 6 torps on a single target.

I picked the loudest sound contact and only used 3 pings for range to confirm it wasn't 200 miles away (2,000 yrds and 20,000 yrds sound so similar on the phones).

Immediately dived back down to 350' after launching and listened. 2 hits, 1 dud, and 3 misses. Sank a 7400 ton merchant without ever seeing it! Probably wouldn't anyway in the heavy fog. The escorts had exactly 0 idea what was going on. No pings or DCs at all.

I'm hooked on this method for poor weather shooting. Saves tons of time on the evading end of things plus avoids you getting run over in the fog. Lots of times in heavy fog I can just barely make out the outline of a ship before I get inside minimum range anyway. I may even start doing it for fair weather shots. I'm going to have to look up the torpedo spread info in the .pdf manual again. 6 sounds like too many unless it's a tanker.
And it's historical :up:


Won't the escorts jump right on top of you as soon as you start sending pings to get the range and position of your target?

[NicaNavy]

I have only been playing the Quick Missions in order to get used to the game and to improve my attack skills.

Last night I started my first Patrol in order to put WernerSobe's tutorial to good use. I am supposed to go to the Sea of Japan to do some patrol missions. I am hoping to run into some unsuspecting merchants along the way so that I can practice the blind attack.

[Frederf]

Won't the escorts jump right on top of you as soon as you start sending pings to get the range and position of your target?

Yup. Long story short I only used about 3 pings less than 120 seeconds before shooting so it's a case of "Yeah they are alerted but it's too late."

Hearing the ping only clues the escorts that you're there and you are kinda-ovah-der. By the time they could come and investigate I was already scraping the bottom in safety. Now I don't know if/what the "safe" maximum range for pinging ships, but I've been tracking convoys by bearing/range using active sonar (a ping ever 30-60 min or more) while 8-20nm away without anything bad ever happening.

My second blind attack I got anxious listening on hydrophones only not knowing how far away they were so I came up from the abyss too soon and had to haul my butt and made some hasty torpedo shots before diving again. This is a lesson to make sure the lead DD passes overhead first, then come up to PD, then really really wait until that first ping.

If you have a good fix on the lead ship (bearing/range) before the attack begins, you can predict with good accuracy when he will arrive. For example you end run around the convoy with a 10nm buffer so you can get right in front without being seen/hear/whatever and you dive and make your last fix... hmm 9nm away at 9 kts, they should be overhead in 60 min. So dive to 300+' and fast forward time for 50 minutes, then listen on the 'phones for the DD fly over and wait for the merchant racket to spread to at least 60 deg of the scope.

Stalking a convoy over the better part of the day and getting really accurate bearing/ranges from around 15nm can give you their speed to the 1/10th of a knot and their course to 2 degrees. I've settled in their path with enough accuracy that I had to move away from their courseline to get outside minimum range.

Another trick is if you know their course you can always put yourself on a heading that's exactly 90 degress from theirs and keep moving around back and forward at 1 kt until they stay exactly on your 90/270 relative bearing. Unfortunately that makes you the biggest sonar target so it's best to do that early then turn directly facing or away from the convoy to make a tiny shilloutte and do a timed 90 deg turn back into firing position just as the lead DD passes. I like to keep my nose pointed right at the lead DD so I always make the minimal outline to him as he passes so close.

Does anyone know if a DD passing rihgt over a 0kt, silent running sub at 300' will suddenly decide to pick you up on sonar? I have a feeling that even with a 0 hydrophone signature (possible?) that the DD magically knows I'm under him and he might wanna ping me.