The Type XXI is amazing!

[maillemaker]

I've been playing SHIII for about 3 months now. I've started in 1939 a couple of times, and made it no farther than 1942.

Last night I tried out a single mission with the "Happy Times" convoy and a type XXI. In the end I took out 11 ships and over 100,000 tons, including 2 escorts.

Wow. What an amazing sub. It's like going from a paper plane to a figher plane. You practically FLY through the water. I think I hit 17 knots submerged once. Destroyers can barely set up a DC run!

And SIX forward tubes. And fast torpedo loading.

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.

[Konovalov]

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.

They also said that about the Me262.

[StanT]

Everything is not that easy.I've tried to do some port raids in a XXI type,and,I must say that those 17 knots submerged will not save you from most sophisticated destroyers.You are still very vulnerable,especially when operating in shallow waters.
And most successful convoy interceptions must be none exactly in shallow waters - BF15,BF13 grids,Celtic Sea.There is virtuallly no escape there if you're detected,and you'll be detected for sure at such a high speed.

Finally,it's an ultimate truth of any war - There is no ultimate weapon,there may only be an ultimate operator.:D:up:

[danurve]

Imo; the type II's and VII's were the only boats manuverable enough for anything shallow, or Prein duty. Had 200 XXI or IX boats with trained crews been in the Atlantic by 40', ...

[maillemaker]

I don't know. I found that when I engaged the convoy I never went deeper than 20 meters. Whenever I was about to be run over by a DD I'd go flank and pull a 90 degree turn. They couldn't stay on top of me.

Now when it came time to break off the attack, once I ran out of torpedoes, yes, then I went to 150 meters depth and silent so as to sneak away.

But during the assault, man I was unstoppable. I think if I had wanted to I could have wiped out all the escorts and then escaped at my liesure, but I went for tonnage.

[STEED]

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.

They also said that about the Me262.

Hitler could have armed himself 100% to the teeth with all these late war weapons and still would have one big problem.

OIL :yep:

[Mush Martin]

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.
They also said that about the Me262.
Hitler could have armed himself 100% to the teeth with all these late war weapons and still would have one big problem.

OIL :yep:



Not so fast steed big money flows in the halls of power.
a changing situation would change the situation if you follow.

have a look
http://home.att.net/~m.standridge/rocky.htm (http://home.att.net/%7Em.standridge/rocky.htm)

[StanT]

The change of situation would mirror the events of year 1939 - 1942.Then,Kriegsmarine was just about to win flawlessly in 1941 already,but allies inveted a breakthrough 3cm radar and new sonars.

The possible response to Type XXI domination could be absolutely new destroyer types,less noisy and faster,with sonars less sensitive to destroyers own speed.

Always a good measure has a very good counter-measure.Total domination is not possible in the WWII or modern warfare.:up:

[STEED]

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.
They also said that about the Me262.
Hitler could have armed himself 100% to the teeth with all these late war weapons and still would have one big problem.

OIL :yep:



Not so fast steed big money flows in the halls of power.
a changing situation would change the situation if you follow.

have a look
http://home.att.net/~m.standridge/rocky.htm

Still dose not change the fact Hitler's war machine got there oil from the Romania oil fields.

[Mush Martin]

If ther Germans would have had these things in 1939 the naval war would have been entirely didfferent.
They also said that about the Me262.
Hitler could have armed himself 100% to the teeth with all these late war weapons and still would have one big problem.

OIL :yep:



Not so fast steed big money flows in the halls of power.
a changing situation would change the situation if you follow.

have a look
http://home.att.net/~m.standridge/rocky.htm (http://home.att.net/%7Em.standridge/rocky.htm)
Still dose not change the fact Hitler's war machine got there oil from the Romania oil fields.
Ploesti is part of the deal mentioned about three quarters of the way
through the article, actually a fairly damning implication.

[quote]
Prescott had to know of some of this, since his banking firm did regular business with Standard Oil and his attorney, Allen Dulles, was on its Board of Directors. Prescott}{\plain \f1 \'92s steamship line had extensive contacts with the Nazis, as well. It had provided free trips for German Nazis to the US for a meeting of a Fascist eugenics group in which Prescott Bush was a member throughout World War II (Bowen 2-11) and Prescott had an attorney on staff who continued to do bond business with the Nazis until November 1942, apparently stopping doing so only because he was indicted by the US government (Tarpley and Chaitkin 34-40). Only a few months earlier, in September 1941, Rockefeller had his tankers refuel Nazi submarines that were sinking American ships in the North Atlantic and with which it was widely known the US was involved in an undeclared war. (Higham 35-6). Rockefeller also accepted $11 million in bonds directly from Hermann Goering in 1940, and the two initialed off on an agreement whereby Nazi Germany was authorized to continue to exploit Standard Oil's Rumanian oil, whether or not America came into the war. (Higham 34-60. See also Bella Kissh's unpublished thesis on this, 1984--full reference can be located at the Annotated Bibliography file on this Website: Go to Annotated Bibliography (http://home.att.net/%7Em.standridge/anobib.htm#h1)). Thus, Prescott's insider knowledge of, yet continuing partnership and business association with, Rockefeller and his firm, makes some other subsequent events look suspicious after this May 2, 1944 reshipment of oil to the Nazis via Spain and those cables to Japan of 1941. For, on May 15, 1944, Prescott's son George Bush flew his first combat mission in the Pacific against the Japanese. Given this backdrop, one must wonder why he was even there.
[quote]


[edit] I guess my point is this. the trouble with alternate histories is that
you cant change one thing without changing another and so if fighting
the soviets only not north america or the commonwealth the natural implication
would be that the aristocracies would lend financial support of all types.
if England was taken out of the war early by success in the middle east
and the north atlantic.

[TriskettheKid]

The XXI is alright (and for fun, I modded the game at one point that allowed me to get the XXI from the start in 1939).

But for my playstyle, it's majorly flawed.

Harbor raids are near impossible unless it's a perfectly calm day, or a deeper than normal port. Why? Because the XXI is ****ing huge. In ports that are about 25m deep, you'll be hitting bottom at periscope depth if there's a storm or even wind because of the wave action.

Not to mention, there are no aft tubes. Admittedly, this does add a bit of tactics to it's use, since you know have to be very careful about your shots. In this respect, it's like the Type II that I've taken through the war several times.

The AA turrets suck. They just suck. Yeah, it's nice not to have to worry about getting shot at by planes, since they'll never kill your crew (unless they use bombs), your situational awareness drops to almost nothing, since you've only got a slot to look through. Not to mention, they aren't exactly the most responsive AA guns when it comes to tracking a target.

But I digress. The boat is fun. It's tons of fun. Especially if you've gotten enough renown by then to get the acoustic homing torps.

[Puster Bill]

The XXI is alright (and for fun, I modded the game at one point that allowed me to get the XXI from the start in 1939).

But for my playstyle, it's majorly flawed.

Harbor raids are near impossible unless it's a perfectly calm day, or a deeper than normal port. Why? Because the XXI is ****ing huge. In ports that are about 25m deep, you'll be hitting bottom at periscope depth if there's a storm or even wind because of the wave action.

Not to mention, there are no aft tubes. Admittedly, this does add a bit of tactics to it's use, since you know have to be very careful about your shots. In this respect, it's like the Type II that I've taken through the war several times.

The AA turrets suck. They just suck. Yeah, it's nice not to have to worry about getting shot at by planes, since they'll never kill your crew (unless they use bombs), your situational awareness drops to almost nothing, since you've only got a slot to look through. Not to mention, they aren't exactly the most responsive AA guns when it comes to tracking a target.

But I digress. The boat is fun. It's tons of fun. Especially if you've gotten enough renown by then to get the acoustic homing torps.

What you really need is a playable Type XXIII: Actually saw action in WWII, fast, small, and perfect for harbor raids:
http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5318/xxiiibergen1rx0.png