I thought being illegal was illegal ...

[geetrue]

That's right folks ... it's not illegal to be illegal in the state of Connecticut.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2227446920070723

[JSLTIGER]

I heard about this...stupidest idea ever. If you are here illegally, you should be treated as such. Yes, this is a nation of immigrants, but the vast majority came here legally, and while I'm open to continued legal immigration, I have very little sympathy for those who are here illegally and simply mooch off the remainder of the country.

[mbthegreat]

I heard about this...stupidest idea ever. If you are here illegally, you should be treated as such. Yes, this is a nation of immigrants, but the vast majority came here legally, and while I'm open to continued legal immigration, I have very little sympathy for those who are here illegally and simply mooch off the remainder of the country.

Actaully the vsat majority turned up uninvited and slaughtered the natives...........

[August]

Actaully the vsat majority turned up uninvited and slaughtered the natives...........

Which natives? The ones who came here second and slaughtered the first wave of immigrants and were in turn slaughtered by the 3rd?

[SUBMAN1]

Actaully the vsat majority turned up uninvited and slaughtered the natives...........

Which natives? The ones who came here second and slaughtered the first wave of immigrants and were in turn slaughtered by the 3rd?

Exactly. I thought the Jamestown settlement was brutelly attacked over and over. Not hard to figure out where the negative feeling arose from. This is what you are refering to?

Anyway, the very first European settlement to come and settle in the AMericas was attacked by Natives. Seems people forget this. Had the ships not returned, the settlers would have all been killed.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

That's right folks ... it's not illegal to be illegal in the state of Connecticut.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN2227446920070723

Dumbest idea in history. Watch and listen to see what will happen. I already know the outcome on this one! Spain experienced the same thing, but they even put a limit on things - Connecticut has no such limit! This is going to be funny since the rest will learn what will really happen if such policies are endorsed!

-S

[samniTe]

Actaully the vsat majority turned up uninvited and slaughtered the natives...........
Which natives? The ones who came here second and slaughtered the first wave of immigrants and were in turn slaughtered by the 3rd?
Exactly. I thought the Jamestown settlement was brutelly attacked over and over. Not hard to figure out where the negative feeling arose from. This is what you are refering to?

Anyway, the very first European settlement to come and settle in the AMericas was attacked by Natives. Seems people forget this. Had the ships not returned, the settlers would have all been killed.

-S

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent

[August]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent

If that were true then who owns all those new casinos?

[Sailor Steve]

Anybody who reads the "Books & Movies" boards knows I've recently spent a lot of time reading American history; and I mean deep reading-orignal documents etc. You'd be surprised at how far backwards the founders and their successors bent to accomodate the natives. Yes there was a lot of slaughter, but it was definitely on both sides. It's like the accusations in '91 that Americans were "targetting civilians" in Baghdad. They never heard of Dresden or Tokyo. Same thing here: if we had really wanted to slaughter the natives there wouldn't be any here to complain about it.

As to the topic at hand: "I'm NOT a criminal! Yes, I broke several laws to get here, and yes, I'm breaking more now, but you can't call me a criminal, 'cause I'm NOT!"

[samniTe]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent
If that were true then who owns all those new casinos?

the survivors?

kthx

[SUBMAN1]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent
If that were true then who owns all those new casinos?
the survivors?

kthx
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ask Custard what he thinks.

Somehow I feel that using this mentality that if Germany lost the war, we should all feel sorry for them! Same thing!

[geetrue]

Everybody knows they came over the land bridge from China ... :yep:

what's the big deal we gave them some land in return and told them to get out of the way of our trains.

We had to fight these illegal's for Texas at the battle of San Jancito and now they want to live here without paying.

[Onkel Neal]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent

You know, the native peoples of North and South America were not all Sunday school teachers, either. In all fairness, if the Cherokee had created the tech to sail east to the British Isles with superior firepower, do you think it would have been any different? It was the way people behaved.

[bradclark1]

We had to fight these illegals for Texas at the battle of San Jancito and now they want to live here without paying.
Err. I think we were the illegals back then, unless of course you live in an alternate reality.:-?

[August]

We had to fight these illegal's for Texas at the battle of San Jancito and now they want to live here without paying.

Actually that was the Texans who won that battle, and their war for independance, not the United States. The Texans were Mexican rebels who won their own independance from the Tyrant Santa Anna, a would be Napoleon who had rescinded Mexicos 1824 Constitution and declared himself dictator.

[P_Funk]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent
You know, the native peoples of North and South America were not all Sunday school teachers, either. In all fairness, if the Cherokee had created the tech to sail east to the British Isles with superior firepower, do you think it would have been any different? It was the way people behaved. Does it make it right?

Morality isn't exactly like supreme court precedents.


But that doesn't answer the modern questions of illegal immigration. But what I do know is that Mexico has a free trade agreement with the US and that isn't helping them very much. People want a better life in an economy that allows them to have money. Maybe there wouldn't be so many immigrants dying to get into the US if free trade actually existed in a way that let other economies less developed by western hegemony you know like... compete weithout being basically a reflection of labour markets pre-industrial revolution. Fact is that American protectionist tendencies (I say American not out of spite but out of economic reality) prevent other national economies from flourishing except for in a few isolated cases. Mostly the tendency is to exploit cheap labour markets and to funnel the profits to the shareholders. Authoritarian trade laws and agreements prevent national governments from protecting labour rights without fearing destroying all economic investment.

People wouldn't be desperate to get into the America's Oasis if it weren't the only watering hole on the continent.

[SUBMAN1]

Does it make it right?

Morality isn't exactly like supreme court precedents.

Oh please! Get off your high horse and come down to planet Earth all high and mighty! These very same Indians you talk about very much liked to sell Canadian Scalp to Napoleon for $$$. Friggen pathetic.

-S

[August]

Authoritarian trade laws and agreements prevent national governments from protecting labour rights without fearing destroying all economic investment.

So what you're saying is that American and other international companies should be obliged to pay their workers as much as they pay our own? That the same environmental and safety protections should be required? That sounds fine to me but what is the point then of investing their money and resources at all if it's no cheaper (and a lot safer) to invest it domestically?

People wouldn't be desperate to get into the America's Oasis if it weren't the only watering hole on the continent.
As long as people have an escape they won't be forced to face their problems. Mexico is never going to enjoy the north American standard of living unless they fix their own society first.

[Onkel Neal]

We had to fight these illegals for Texas at the battle of San Jancito and now they want to live here without paying.
Err. I think we were the illegals back then, unless of course you live in an alternate reality.:-?

No, we did have legal permission to immigrate and settle from the Spanish government. (http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/austin.htm)


It was Austin's father, Moses Austin, who took the first steps toward establishing an American colony in Mexican Tejas. In 1820, he traveled to San Antonio to petition for a land grant, and in 1821 received approval to settle 300 American families on 200,000 acres. But Moses Austin died before completing his plans and responsibility for establishing the colony fell to Stephen.

Austin selected a site on the lower Colorado and Brazos rivers, and settled his colonists there in January 1822. Almost at once he faced opposition from the newly independent Mexican government, which refused to recognize his father's land grant since it had been made under Spanish charter. Austin traveled to Mexico City to correct this situation, and using skillful diplomacy secured a new law confirming his right to colonize the land and designating him as the new colony's empresario or administrative authority.


He even managed to get permission through two different nations' governments. :yep:



Does it make it right?

Morality isn't exactly like supreme court precedents.



Huh? Who said it was right by today's standards? It was the norm then. Go back in time 400 years and convince the world it was wrong ;)

[Reaves]

Huh? Who said it was right by today's standards? It was the norm then. Go back in time 400 years and convince the world it was wrong ;)

:yep:

Throughout history pretty much every 'people' on the planet would have been conquered by another. Plenty of cultures have disappeared due to extermination or even turned into slaves. Who do you think built the pyramids? We should destroy them as they are a testament to slavery!

We can't judge what nations did in the past when, afterall it is thanks to the larger European countries and to a point American countries (Canada and USA) that stopped slavery. And certainly figures in US history were essential in equal rights for all people no matter what colour, faith or gender. (maybe we made a bad move with gender. :p)

The only reason we frown upon what people did in history is because over time we have learnt equality. That didn't happen overnight.

[Fish]

I heard about this...stupidest idea ever. If you are here illegally, you should be treated as such. Yes, this is a nation of immigrants, but the vast majority came here legally, and while I'm open to continued legal immigration, I have very little sympathy for those who are here illegally and simply mooch off the remainder of the country.

Actaully the vsat majority turned up uninvited and slaughtered the natives...........

Not all:
New Amsterdam (Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language): Nieuw Amsterdam) was the 17th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_century) Dutch colonial town that later became New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City).
The town developed outside of Fort Amsterdam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Amsterdam) on Manhattan Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Island) in the New Netherland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Netherland) territory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territory_%28country_subdivision%29) (1614–1664) which was situated between 38 and 42 degrees latitude as a provincial extension of the Dutch Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic) from 1624. Provincial possession of the territory was accomplished with the first settlement which was established on Governors Island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governors_Island) in 1624. A year later, in 1625, construction of a citadel comprising Fort Amsterdam was commenced. Earlier, the harbor and the river had been discovered, explored and charted by an expedition of the Dutch East India Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_India_Company) captained by Henry Hudson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hudson) in 1609. From 1611 through 1614, the territory was surveyed and charted by various private commercial companies on behalf of the States General of the Dutch Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_General_of_the_Dutch_Republic) and operated for the interests of private commercial entities prior to official possession as a North American extension of the Dutch Republic in the form of an overseas province in 1624.
The town of New Amsterdam became a city when it received municipal rights in 1653 and was unilaterally reincorporated as New York City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City) in June 1665, making it the oldest incorporated city in the United States. The town was founded in 1625 by New Netherland's second director, Willem Verhulst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_Verhulst) who, together with his council, selected Manhattan Island as the optimal place for permanent settlement by the Dutch West India Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_West_India_Company). That year, military engineer and surveyor Cryn Fredericksz van Lobbrecht (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cryn_Fredericksz_van_Lobbrecht&action=edit) laid out a citadel with Fort Amsterdam as centerpiece. To secure the settlers' property and its surroundings according to Dutch law, the third director, Peter Minuit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Minuit), created a deed with the Manhattan Indians in 1626 which officially authorized legal possession of Manhattan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan) according to Dutch Laws.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Amsterdam

[P_Funk]

Does it make it right?

Morality isn't exactly like supreme court precedents.

Oh please! Get off your high horse and come down to planet Earth all high and mighty! These very same Indians you talk about very much liked to sell Canadian Scalp to Napoleon for $$$. Friggen pathetic.

-S Oh yea thats right. Morality is a high horse. That means that pragmatic self serviance is the only way to go. I believe that is the ultimate fascist creedo.

So what you're saying is that American and other international companies should be obliged to pay their workers as much as they pay our own? That the same environmental and safety protections should be required? That sounds fine to me but what is the point then of investing their money and resources at all if it's no cheaper (and a lot safer) to invest it domestically?They don't invest in the market to improve it but to exploit it, and thats fine cause that what they're supposed to do. At the same time the reason they don't invest domestically is because laws and rights interfere with revenues, naturally. Thats why we need a government even under the most minimalist Right Wing standards. But the thing thats happened is that the international bodies that are meant to prevent corporate cartels and monopolies from controlling markets and allow the rise of the kinds of rights and standards we have here are now retarding that very process. Free trade doesn't exist.

NAFTA is a scam. Brian Mulroney sold out my country when he signed it. It was so bad that the Mexicans refused to sign the identical one we did. The WTO is a protectionist entity for existing economic powers.

As long as people have an escape they won't be forced to face their problems. Mexico is never going to enjoy the north American standard of living unless they fix their own society first. Down with the help yourself social darwinism, August aren't you.

So following your logic then the pilgrims who fled England for a better life in America were wrong to do so? Are ready to say that the founding of your country was a mistake? All those people that left barbaric Europe for some Liberty and Democracy in America were weak and looking for a hand out?

[samniTe]

definately reason to slaughter route and disease the rest of the indians on the continent
If that were true then who owns all those new casinos?
the survivors?

kthx
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Ask Custard what he thinks.

Somehow I feel that using this mentality that if Germany lost the war, we should all feel sorry for them! Same thing!
because the indians were fascist jew killing madmen..... right..

and custer* got wrecked by crazy horse

I almost cant believe the mentality of some of the post.

The native americans were the bad ones?

mmk

[P_Funk]

The native americans were the bad ones?
In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.

[bradclark1]

No, we did have legal permission to immigrate and settle from the Spanish government. (http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/people/a_c/austin.htm)
Let me look up my Texas history. I'm of the mind that gringo's were ordered out. Or, I'm living an alternate history. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas

The new Constitution ended the republic and the federation, imposed a central style of government with power concentrated in the President, and turned states into provinces with governors appointed from Mexico City. Some states around Mexico rebelled against this imposition, including Chihuahua, Zacatecas and Yucatan. Texans were also irritated by other policies including the forcible disarmament of Texan settlers, and the expulsion of immigrants and legal land owners originally from the United States.
This just glosses over it, it is actually quite involved. Austin played some dirty underhanded politics :) striving for a revolt.

[hoagiedriver]

The American Indian make up about 0.8% of the US population.

[SUBMAN1]

The native americans were the bad ones? In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.
Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind. Then they mutilated the body - sometimes with the victim alive in many cases.

Yes, the indians are a bit sick and twisted in my mind for that. The fact that both of you endorse that sort of behavior makes me question both of you too.

-S

[samniTe]

The native americans were the bad ones? In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.
Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind.
-S
The story of America?


is it because your lack of knowledge on the subject, or is it just the way you were brought up?


i'm still failing to come to understand on how anyone can take sides against the native americans.


I thought that ended a good 40-50 years ago?

[hoagiedriver]

The native americans were the bad ones? In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.
Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind. Then they mutilated the body - sometimes with the victim alive in many cases.

Yes, the indians are a bit sick and twisted in my mind for that. The fact that both of you endorse that sort of behavior makes me question both of you too.

-SThere were many Native American tribes, and their customs and practices varied widely.

[samniTe]

The native americans were the bad ones? In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.
Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind. Then they mutilated the body - sometimes with the victim alive in many cases.

Yes, the indians are a bit sick and twisted in my mind for that. The fact that both of you endorse that sort of behavior makes me question both of you too.

-SThere were many Native American tribes, and their customs and practices varied widely.

but they all submitted or were killed. Or submitted and were killed.

but some people don't wanna think of it like that.

[bradclark1]

Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind. Then they mutilated the body - sometimes with the victim alive in many cases.

Yes, the indians are a bit sick and twisted in my mind for that. The fact that both of you endorse that sort of behavior makes me question both of you too.

-S
Sound a little prejudiced there SUBMAN1. The white man wasn't such an angel himself. Lots of massacres and greed in our history.

[geetrue]

The native americans were the bad ones? In an effort to justify their neo-fascist pragmatism? Of course.
Uh - maybe I missed something, but one man killing another man for profit is a bit twisted in my mind. Then they mutilated the body - sometimes with the victim alive in many cases.

Yes, the indians are a bit sick and twisted in my mind for that. The fact that both of you endorse that sort of behavior makes me question both of you too.

-SThere were many Native American tribes, and their customs and practices varied widely.

Yes, of course they had different customs ... like tying people down over ant hills and pouring honey all over the poor guy. :o

[waste gate]

I think we go off topic when we interject what happened 100 or more years ago. We should discuss this based on current US law.

Those that cross the border without compliance with US law are illegal by definition. As such they are criminals within the United States. Regardless of there status in their home countries, what they may be escaping from, or how attractive their destination may appear, by crossing the border via foot, automobile, aircraft, or ship, their entry is illegal and they are criminals.

Beyond that in order to gain employment in this country the must break more law by aquiring identification which belies that legal status.


I'm very sorry that their country of origin doesn't allow them the opportunities that are present in the US, but that is not the responsibility of my country, or my fellow citizens. If we continue down this path the US will eventually become as devoid of opportunity as the countries many of these folks are trying to escape.

That's my thought.

[August]

Down with the help yourself social darwinism, August aren't you.

So following your logic then the pilgrims who fled England for a better life in America were wrong to do so? Are ready to say that the founding of your country was a mistake? All those people that left barbaric Europe for some Liberty and Democracy in America were weak and looking for a hand out?

I guess so. At least we didn't distribute smallpox infested blankets to the indians like your countrymen did...

[geetrue]

I think we go off topic when we interject what happened 100 or more years ago. We should discuss this based on current US law.

Those that cross the border without compliance with US law are illegal by definition. As such they are criminals within the United States. Regardless of there status in their home countries, what they may be escaping from, or how attractive their destination may appear, by crossing the border via foot, automobile, aircraft, or ship, their entry is illegal and they are criminals.

Beyond that in order to gain employment in this country the must break more law by aquiring identification which belies that legal status.


I'm very sorry that their country of origin doesn't allow them the opportunities that are present in the US, but that is not the responsibility of my country, or my fellow citizens. If we continue down this path the US will eventually become as devoid of opportunity as the countries many of these folks are trying to escape.

That's my thought.

Yes, some how we went from illegal's getting library cards in Conn ... to talking about cowboys and indians.

I have seen these poor people from close up. They are hurting, they just want work, they want to feed their families, they aren't much different from when my grandfather got here from Ireland in the late 1800's.

Except he was pushed out of Ireland and America had different laws in those days.

The poor illegal's I have seen rush my car when I pulled up to the local rural grocery store in Valley Center, California, where I use to live.

They thought I was looking for someone to work in the orange groves that were all around the area. I've seen them in the Post Office buying money orders to send home, I've seen them beat up by their own countrymen to get their money, I have seen them on rainy days in the laundry mats just sitting there with no where to go, I've seen their camp fires on the sides of steep residential hills in Encinitas, California, I've seen them jump the fence on hwy 5 at the check points outside of Oceanside, California and run across a busy freeway with the INS in hot pursuit.

I feel sorry for them, but I don't know what to do for them. They are here, they are here in big numbers seven figure numbers and they don't stop coming, thousands get caught everyday.

They cross the hot desert with two gallons of water to get across the border in Arizona ... forty miles of desert to be exact. Just to get a job and be a slave of the American system ... Fruit pickers are one thing, but some have skills and they are taking the jobs of many American's too.

I don't have the answers, but surely saying it's okay to have a drivers license and be illegal is not one of them.

[waste gate]

The really bad part of not enforcing the law is that coyotes prey upon these people, and at least twice a month you hear about illegal immigrant deaths on Coorado roads. It is usually ten a time. If some folks were really concerned about these folks they would want the law enforced in order to stop unneeded deaths.

Anyone who is for illegal immigration is for death! That's the way I see the ancillary consequence.

PS I'm not very much suprised, most that want illegal immigration also advocate abortion. That is also killing human beings.

[P_Funk]

I guess so. At least we didn't distribute smallpox infested blankets to the indians like your countrymen did... Brilliant! Just bloody genius! No answer to my question so just slam my people while you're at it to save face.:cool:

You think that I'm some moron and actually think my people did anything different? Well we did. See your people wiped the indians out almost entirely. We did it a bit differently. See firstly we got them drunk on firewine, the prerequisite to any good negotiation, then got all their land for basically nothing, forced them to live on reserves. Okay then once we'd established an actual government and country and a few provinces we threw all their kids into school where they metaphorically and literally got the "Injian" molested out of them. So now as a result they're all social outcasts and living up north sniffing glue until the fateful day when a police officer shoots them or leaves them to freeze to death at the city limits comes.

So yea my people were a$$holes too, and still are, except for one thing. There are more indians left up here. Granted they're all mostly rocking back and forth with their hands on their ears but we didn't annihilate them. Just tortured their culture.

So now that we have that straight. Ummmm... what were we saying... oh yea August just admitted that America's founding was the act of weak kneed people that couldn't take a little tyranny and economic hardship for a couple extra generations.

[August]

Brilliant! Just bloody genius! No answer to my question so just slam my people while you're at it to save face.:cool:

You think that I'm some moron and actually think my people did anything different? Well we did. See your people wiped the indians out almost entirely. We did it a bit differently. See firstly we got them drunk on firewine, the prerequisite to any good negotiation, then got all their land for basically nothing, forced them to live on reserves. Okay then once we'd established an actual government and country and a few provinces we threw all their kids into school where they metaphorically and literally got the "Injian" molested out of them. So now as a result they're all social outcasts and living up north sniffing glue until the fateful day when a police officer shoots them or leaves them to freeze to death at the city limits comes.

So yea my people were a$$holes too, and still are, except for one thing. There are more indians left up here. Granted they're all mostly rocking back and forth with their hands on their ears but we didn't annihilate them. Just tortured their culture.

So now that we have that straight. Ummmm... what were we saying... oh yea August just admitted that America's founding was the act of weak kneed people that couldn't take a little tyranny and economic hardship for a couple extra generations.

:D So says the guy from the other former English colony in the new world. And FYI we didn't "annilhilate" the indians. Far from it. As a matter of fact here in the 21st century their populations are both growing and getting richer in nearly every state in the union including mine where they have enjoyed sovereign status since the 18th century. Apparently that is the opposite for those who have had the misfortune to be born in Canada, as from what you're saying you haven't changed your policies toward native peoples ever. Somehow this gives you the right to lecture us? :roll:

So I don't need to slam at your people really, you're doing that all by yourself. In fact aside from a few anti-American nitwits, a disease we have enough of our own here in the good of USofA, I quite like the Canadians in spite of their checkered past.

As for not answering your question, if it could be construed as a valid one, why should I bother discussing anything with someone who calls my country, what was it you said earlier?, "Neo-fascist? You don't really expect anyone to take you seriously when you fling terms like that around do you?

But in the interests of Canadian American relations let me school you on a little fact you seem to have missed/ignored. When your forefathers and mine came to the new world there were only a few million people living here (most of them quite willing to betray the tribe in the next valley), and only a couple hundred million worldwide, so there was plenty of spare room for everyone. But now 200 years later with a world population that has gone over 6 BILLION, we don't have much space left to accomodate millions of immigrants any more which is why we have passed laws regulating it.

[fatty]

What does the displacement of Native Americans have to do with illegal immigrants obtaining ID cards in the fine state of Connecticut? :huh:

[P_Funk]

So I don't need to slam at your people really, you're doing that all by yourself. In fact aside from a few anti-American nitwits, a disease we have enough of our own here in the good of USofA, I quite like the Canadians in spite of their checkered past. Of course I'm slamming myself. Thats cause I'm not some useless alleged "patriot" that thinks that the righteousness of my nation is all I need to and should express. And its good to hear that you like us despite our "past" because if it were the other way then we'd have alotmore to hate about you guys.;) But don't get me wrong. I like Americans and America. America is beautiful. I just happen to move away from that sentiment once we get to foreign policy. So I don't think its fair to say that someone is anti-american just because they don't like what America's foreign policy represents.

As for not answering your question, if it could be construed as a valid one, why should I bother discussing anything with someone who calls my country, what was it you said earlier?, "Neo-fascist? You don't really expect anyone to take you seriously when you fling terms like that around do you? I didn't call your country neo-fascist, just you and all the other people that talk like you. But I also didn't mean it seriously, at least sorta. Fact is that people rarely take me seriously around here anyway so rather tahn post 5 paragrapjhs explaining why there is a potential connection between the pragmatic self interest driven policies of your mindset and those of the former fascist states of the mid 20th C. I just said it for its own fun. I mean either way I'd get a nothing reply.

You guys take extremist pot shots at me all the time saying "communist" this and... well actually communist is like the multipurpose American Right Wing term for annoying liberals. So I'm a pinko-commie baby eating democracy hater and you're the pragmatic neo-fascist yankee doodle.

[geetrue]

What does the displacement of Native Americans have to do with illegal immigrants obtaining ID cards in the fine state of Connecticut? :huh:

I tried to steer it back on course, but the darn thing keeps getting out of control.

I'm going to go check the stern room to see what's wrong ... (means the bathroom). :roll:

[PeriscopeDepth]

You guys take extremist pot shots at me all the time saying "communist" this and... well actually communist is like the multipurpose American Right Wing term for annoying liberals. So I'm a pinko-commie baby eating democracy hater and you're the pragmatic neo-fascist yankee doodle.
Ain't the GT forum great?

PD

PS. This isn't addressed at anyone in particular. I just happen to think that the quoted statement is basically what the GT forum is. The only people who bother to yell for the most part tend to be polar opposites.

[fatty]

Well, I tried. In before the lock!

[mbthegreat]

some sort of amnesty would be good for both sides on the immigration debate, would it not? The immigrants are no longer abused by their employers, and by legalising them you are also putting them in the system, which allows you to charge them tax etc. etc.

Apart from the right-wing "they take out jobs" stuff (which certainly in the UK is complete bull****), the US is not a welfare state, so these people are not draining resources from hospitals etc., seems pretty much win-win to me.

[waste gate]

some sort of amnesty would be good for both sides on the immigration debate, would it not? The immigrants are no longer abused by their employers, and by legalising them you are also putting them in the system, which allows you to charge them tax etc. etc.

Apart from the right-wing "they take out jobs" stuff (which certainly in the UK is complete bull****), the US is not a welfare state, so these people are not draining resources from hospitals etc., seems pretty much win-win to me.

Amnesty is a slap in the face to everyone who obeyed the law in order to immigrate to this country. It also sets a bad precident and we will be doing this again in twenty years. In 1986 we iniciated an immigration policy which due to lack of enforcement we are dealing with now.

Although not universally known, if someone arrives within 250 feet of a hospital emergency room, by law, the hospital must treat that individual regardless of their insurance or legal status. Who do you think pays for the uninsured or illegals?

[mbthegreat]

the main problem isn't people having emergency treatment surely? It is planned surgery / minor surgery / dentistry etc.

[waste gate]

the main problem isn't people having emergency treatment surely? It is planned surgery / minor surgery / dentistry etc.

I'm not sure what you are getting at here mbthegreat, but emergency care is very expensive. I was in an auto accident in 1992 which required emergency care and a six day admittance in hospital. $17,000.

[Nightmare]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here mbthegreat, but emergency care is very expensive. I was in an auto accident in 1992 which required emergency care and a six day admittance in hospital. $17,000.
Exactly, and it's only gone up in price. I was in the ER last summer for an abnormal heart rhythm. Had one EKG, an echocardiogram, and a chest x-ray. The rest was me lying on the bed (feeling like crap) with an IV while they tried to get my heart rhythm under control. 6 hours later I was sent home (still in an abnormal rhythm) with a prescription.

Total cost of bill I would have been stuck with if I didn't have insurance: $15,000

[waste gate]

I'm not sure what you are getting at here mbthegreat, but emergency care is very expensive. I was in an auto accident in 1992 which required emergency care and a six day admittance in hospital. $17,000.
Exactly, and it's only gone up in price. I was in the ER last summer for an abnormal heart rhythm. Had one EKG, an echocardiogram, and a chest x-ray. The rest was me lying on the bed with an IV while they tried to get my heart rhythm under control. 6 hours later I was sent home (still in an abnormal rhythm) with a prescription.

Total cost of bill I would have been stuck with if I didn't have insurance: $15,000

The price goes up due to basic supply and demand economics. The demand is high and many bills are not paid there by raising the price for everyone. National health care won't change the price, only who pays. I am very much apposed to paying for those who abuse thier health on a daily basis, not to mention the government telling me how to live my life, which will be the end product of national health care.

[Tchocky]

You guys take extremist pot shots at me all the time saying "communist" this and... well actually communist is like the multipurpose American Right Wing term for annoying liberals. So I'm a pinko-commie baby eating democracy hater and you're the pragmatic neo-fascist yankee doodle.
Ain't the GT forum great?

PD

PS. This isn't addressed at anyone in particular. I just happen to think that the quoted statement is basically what the GT forum is. The only people who bother to yell for the most part tend to be polar opposites.
You're forgetting the usual "I bet you're a know-it-all college student who knows everything.....mooching off the government.....you'll change your tune eventually"

etbleedin'cetera

[geetrue]

You're forgetting the usual "I bet you're a know-it-all college student who knows everything.....mooching off the government.....you'll change your tune eventually"

etbleedin'cetera

Perhaps he's an illegal ... :lol:

[Tchocky]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7BA15A518D-368B-40C2-9945-D2717DAA508C%7D.gif

[P_Funk]

http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7BA15A518D-368B-40C2-9945-D2717DAA508C%7D.gif Thats a totally different scenario. For one we, as the noble white people, always come in peace and only destroy civilizations when they attack us first. We aren't immigrants too. Apparently also invading their land isn't actually called war, and even if they attack first only we in the modern West are allowed to engage in pre-emptive war. Thats right, the natives aren't allowed to also follow the 1% doctrine.;)

Apparently also there is a legitimate excuse to say that there was lots of room for people in North America so the Natives should have shared with us anyway so we just took what was fair to take. Hmmm... that sounds very much like a socialist state annexing land and wealth so that it may be redistributed to those that need it, ie. the settlers with nothing. Interesting.

[Sailor Steve]

Here's a favorite of mine:
http://carryabigsticker.com/homeland_security_1492_shirt.htm

[waste gate]

OK, if the American continent was invaded, take a stance and leave, instead of being contradictory of the countries' which has given you so much.

You won't leave, so you are as guilty as the rest. Your arguments are mute.

[P_Funk]

OK, if the American continent was invaded, take a stance and leave, instead of being contradictory of the countries' which has given you so much.

You won't leave, so you are as guilty as the rest. Your arguments are mute.
Its moot waste gate, moot.