Manual targeting in 1.3

[Tobus]

Since the last patch, I can't seem to hit anything anymore on manual targeting.

I ID the ship
I set range with stadimeter
I set AOB
I do estimate of speed
I do everything above again, so that I have (at least) 2 estimates.

When I go to attack map and look at what the TDC has computed, It's totally off, usually a little on range and a lot on speed. I have just loosed 7 fish on a convoy of 8 and haven't hit ONE ship within 800 meters.

I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but for the life of me I can't figure it out.
I sure didn't have this before patch 1.3, though I had to guestimate speed myself. Guestimates I do now are comparable with the estimate the TDC gives me, but shots keep going short or long.

Any pointers? (I wish I had a WO like in SH3, to reference my solution with his).

[AVGWarhawk]

I had to relearn a few things with the new patch. Magnification with the scope is not as good as the other patches but I believe the current magnfication is darn close to the real deal. This make ID of the target a bit more difficult. Also, for the speed estimate to work properly your range and bearing readings need to be pretty darn accurate. Last night in heavy seas my plotting team said the target was making 7 knots. My poor range and bearing inputs created this issue. The target was making about 4 knots. Four fish gone:oops: . This occurred in RL as well. IMHO it is more realistic and requires better calculations on our part. BTW, you can still change the speed if you feel your guys are wrong on the speed. One more thing, when I engage a convoy I concentrate on one target and plan on sinking 1-3 targets before I disengage. Attempting to get them all in one engagement is darn near impossible with the new improved DD. So put your efforts into the fattest target!

[switch.dota]

Here's how I do it:

1. ID
2. Stadimeter check
3. wait 20 seconds or more
4. Stadimeter check
5. Estimate speed & AOB
6. Turn PK on
7. Fire when torpedo gyro angle is minimal

The reason for multiple standimeter checks is to give the PK an accurate position to track from. Also if no escort is nearby I always get an active sonar range reading sent in before I turn PK on.

This is my first try at manual TDC (before 1.3 the AoB and speed estimates got me too annoyed to play on manual). It's been working quite nicely so far. First few solutions were pretty way off but they got better after a while. I'm pretty confident in my ability to hit ~60% of the time on any non-manuvering target within 3000 meters.

[Inside686]

5. Estimate speed & AOB


Be carefull that the value estimated by the crew is the course of the target relatively to the north which is different from the AOB. Anyway since you got the target course and the bearing to target you can calculate the AOB.

[maerean_m]

5. Estimate speed & AOB

Be carefull that the value estimated by the crew is the course of the target relatively to the north which is different from the AOB. Anyway since you got the target course and the bearing to target you can calculate the AOB.

target course, bearing to target...
AND sub heading. The bearing to target is relative to the sub

[micky1up]

thats the problem with the game it swaps and changes from reletive bearing and true bearing . when you look through a scope you see ships heading always as 0 and when the team compute the speed and course from the ranging they use true bearings everything should be done in true to cancel the problem in the royal navy our scopes have a true bearing ring and underneith it a reletive bearing ring i can do it ok because all that stuff is my JOB in real life i can understand how its confusing for other people


is there any one out there skilled enough to mod the game so ships heading in scopes and other devices is displayed as true heading? that would be a great mod

[Inside686]

is there any one out there skilled enough to mod the game so ships heading in scopes and other devices is displayed as true heading? that would be a great mod

A scale with true bearing and one with relative bearing on each measurement device would be perfect indeed (like the sonar dial)

[Stew U-582]

I have found the best way for getting speed is using the 3 minute rule. if you are unfamiliar ill explain

mark your targets position on the map with the pencil. Use maximun zoom and mark just in front of the bow. wait for exactly 3 minutes then mark the target again. using the ruler measure the distanse then multiply by 20. eg if the distance is 1nm your speed is 20kts .5nm = 10kts .3=6 ect. ive found you end up with a very reliable measurement. but obviously this method is much harder if you dont have map update on.

I have noticed that when using the sonar it allways seems to give a range slightly further and bearing slightly behind the target. Maybe im just not quick enough on the send data buttons.

Anyway Ive found the game heaps more exciting when using manual targeting. When and if I master this I want to move onto no map update.

happy hunting and stick with manual when you do hit its realy rewarding.

stew

[micky1up]

Its Good But Even In Ww2 The Sonar Operator Could Give You The Speed Using Tpk And The Revolutions Of The Shaft Why Are They Making It Difficult To Get Course And Speed In The Game When Its Really Quite Simple I Can Do It In my Head But Im A Tactical Systems Leading Hand In The Royal Navy Submnarine Service Thats My Job In Life Not Everyone Is

[gg5056]

I like using auto, it easier for me. too much work in manual.

[cleverusername]

Do speed and course estimations work if your boat is moving?

[micky1up]

yes of course they do your working out what the other ship is doing not what your doing

[Tobus]

Its Good But Even In Ww2 The Sonar Operator Could Give You The Speed Using Tpk And The Revolutions Of The Shaft Why Are They Making It Difficult To Get Course And Speed In The Game When Its Really Quite Simple I Can Do It In my Head But Im A Tactical Systems Leading Hand In The Royal Navy Submnarine Service Thats My Job In Life Not Everyone Is

I-N-T-E-R-P-U-N-C-T-I-O-N Please!!!:nope:

[Tobus]

Here's how I do it:

1. ID
2. Stadimeter check
3. wait 20 seconds or more
4. Stadimeter check
5. Estimate speed & AOB
6. Turn PK on
7. Fire when torpedo gyro angle is minimal

The reason for multiple standimeter checks is to give the PK an accurate position to track from. Also if no escort is nearby I always get an active sonar range reading sent in before I turn PK on.

This is my first try at manual TDC (before 1.3 the AoB and speed estimates got me too annoyed to play on manual). It's been working quite nicely so far. First few solutions were pretty way off but they got better after a while. I'm pretty confident in my ability to hit ~60% of the time on any non-manuvering target within 3000 meters.

Thanks, I'll try this, and I have never used active sonar to get bearing and range, could try that too.

[Inside686]

I have found the best way for getting speed is using the 3 minute rule. if you are unfamiliar ill explain

mark your targets position on the map with the pencil. Use maximun zoom and mark just in front of the bow. wait for exactly 3 minutes then mark the target again. using the ruler measure the distanse then multiply by 20. eg if the distance is 1nm your speed is 20kts .5nm = 10kts .3=6 ect. ive found you end up with a very reliable measurement. but obviously this method is much harder if you dont have map update on.

I have noticed that when using the sonar it allways seems to give a range slightly further and bearing slightly behind the target. Maybe im just not quick enough on the send data buttons.

Anyway Ive found the game heaps more exciting when using manual targeting. When and if I master this I want to move onto no map update.

happy hunting and stick with manual when you do hit its realy rewarding.

stew The problem is that in most cases you don't have 3 min to make the measurments and most of all you don't have a single target to find the speed.

[nomad_delta]

I've just started a new campaign on 100% realism (so including manual targetting) and I can say that the manual targetting has been working 100% better for me as of patch 1.3.

Since I play with Imperial measurements, manual TDC was almost impossible for me in 1.2 until CapnScurvy released his excellent "Imperial Range Fix" mod:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116592&highlight=imperial+range

Now with patch 1.3, all of the Imperial measurements seem to be working correctly without any mods at all, and I've had a near-perfect success record with all my manual TDC shots so far. Granted, I've only sunk a handful of ships so far: three Large Modern Composite Freighters, two Medium Old Split Freighters, and a Small Split Freighter.

But out of all of those ships I've only missed with one torpedo, and that was because I set my spread-angle a little too high.

---

Since I don't haven't gotten around to making an IS-WAS yet and I don't have a slide-rule, I've been using Centred75's excellent Imperial Navy Ship Recognition Manual which I highly recommend checking out. He's included complete quick-calculation tables AOB, Speed, and Range on all ships without having to do any calculations. (Thanks Centred75, if you happen to read this!) Here's a link to his thread w/ the manual: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117434&highlight=INSRM

nomad_delta

[9th_cow]

having a hard time myself.
i hit a ship with one out of 4 at 4800 not long back. speed was a little off. i had it going faster than it was.
but ive had shots that made me stop and think, wtf...???

i dont even know how im missing these days. i think there was some subtle alteration in the patch i havent fingered just jet, of course i also havent played for a long time, maybe im just real rusty.
but i have missed some sitters that i never would have in the past. its hard to get used to when you dont know why :)

[Tobus]

having a hard time myself.
i hit a ship with one out of 4 at 4800 not long back. speed was a little off. i had it going faster than it was.
but ive had shots that made me stop and think, wtf...???

i dont even know how im missing these days. i think there was some subtle alteration in the patch i havent fingered just jet, of course i also havent played for a long time, maybe im just real rusty.
but i have missed some sitters that i never would have in the past. its hard to get used to when you dont know why :)
Exactly, that's what I'm thinking. Although targeting was porked in v1.0-v1-2, now that it's working I can't seem to hit even the simplest of targets. Strange, but enough great tips in this thread to get me going.

[switch.dota]

Strange, setting speed to Zero and getting a good range estimate is all it takes to hit a ship in port/dead in the water. Just watch the PK settings and try to plot the approximate course of the torpedoes. If they seem WAY off, you're doing something wrong.

[cunnutazzo]

is it possible to set the AoB easily? please can anyone help me to understand this argument? Thanks.

[switch.dota]

is it possible to set the AoB easily? please can anyone help me to understand this argument? Thanks.
Not that I know of. It almost always involves the map.

[Tobus]

is it possible to set the AoB easily? please can anyone help me to understand this argument? Thanks.
I think the amount of notches/marks that a target has in you scope (on horizontal scale) is the same you can use in setting AOB, offcourse minding Port or Starboard. That's why range and ID (for length of the target) is so important.

[Inside686]

When AOB is 0/180 the size of the target we see is at its minimal.
When AOB is 90 the size of the target we see in the scope is at its maximal.
When AOB is 45 we see half the size of the ship.
The problem is that the size of the ship vary from one ship to another and is relative to range so it's not easy to use the marks of the scope.

[cunnutazzo]

The problem is that the size of the ship vary from one ship to another and is relative to range so it's not easy to use the marks of the scope.

Yes, and when you are in front of a juicy convoy with DDs hunting you, there is no time for calculations... The manual targeting requires a lot and experience practice.

[Inside686]

I agree, everything seem easy in theory but when you have to do it in real conditions it's another thing to deal with.

[w-subcommander]

Manual Targeting is made in almost the same way I proposed before using other screenname (due to some reasons including modding paticipation I needed to change my screenname and start over). We have our estimated speed dependent on our correct distance reading. ( the more close our reading using stadimeter to the real value the better result in speed esimation we will have) , But in my "plan" it was just one reading of stadimeter. DEVS made it much better!!!
Now I editing TM 1.3 Decimus mod(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115258, trying to make

1) Light UI mod mainly based on TM( I already did it, now I m testing) this version just leaves AI stuff in SH4 1.3 unchanged and adds some UI features and small staff like Torpedo +25% etc, career bug elimination etc


2) I m trying to Make RTMF Boat mod . :doh: actual gybrid of two most famous mods (thanks to Beery and Decimus again) but it still mainly in my head