McCain Campaign Shakeup

[Stealth Hunter]

Hours ago, John McCain suffered shattering effects after his financial manager and campaign manager BOTH stepped out of his office and resigned their positions on his staff. Anderson Cooper is currently talking about it on CNN with several political advisors. It's not on the CNN main page as of right now, but it will be in a few hours.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

I'll post the link when it shows up.

[Tchocky]

It's quite normal to desert a sinking ship.

[P_Funk]

The USS McCain is a shadow of her former self.:nope:

[Stealth Hunter]

I'm happy about it.:D

Go Barack!:rock:

[Konovalov]

It's quite normal to desert a sinking ship.

:lol: I could not have said it any better. :yep:

[Heibges]

They were fired, they didn't resign.

[waste gate]

They were fired, they didn't resign.

McCain should take a page out of his own playbook and fire/resign himself.
His support and participation in the failed immigration bill was the death of his campaign. He should recognize it and move on (pardon the pun).

[Heibges]

I hate to think this immigration issue will decide the Presidential Election.

Folks that voted against the bill did so only for political advantage without a thought to reality.

The folks who want all the immigrants expelled are basically saying it is possible from a logistics standpoint to relocate all the people in New York City.

[waste gate]

I hate to think this immigration issue will decide the Presidential Election.

Folks that voted against the bill did so only for political advantage without a thought to reality.

The folks who want all the immigrants expelled are basically saying it is possible from a logistics standpoint to relocate all the people in New York City.

The immigration issue will be part of it I'm sure but it won't be the final decider. It is, in my estimation, the final decider for one John McCain's run for the nomination as candidate for that election. He, along with Ted Kennedy were the co-sponsors.

The senators who voted against the bill did so because democracy worked and they listened to their constituents, who those senators are elected to represent.

Ultimately two things have to happen before any reform should take place; enforce current law in regards to businesses and legal proceedings, and secure the border.
Before those two issues are addressed any reform is little more than 'feel good' legislation which is real political posturing without a solution.

[Iceman]

I hate to think this immigration issue will decide the Presidential Election.

Folks that voted against the bill did so only for political advantage without a thought to reality.

The folks who want all the immigrants expelled are basically saying it is possible from a logistics standpoint to relocate all the people in New York City.

Could not have put it better...Democrats really are living in some dream world...theay are quick to condemn but offer NO Solutions....if so Where and what are they??? Please some one list them...somewhere...

Democrat Solutions / Republicans Solutions...

I would like to see both proposed solutions for all the major things pressing this coutry and the world...The war in Iraq...pollution,energy,etc etc...

I don't see many or any of the Democrats doing anything but trying to bash the Republicans which to me makes the Dems seem weak morally and or politically...is any one actually giving any "Realistic" solutions for any of the problems...frankly I am amazed that the idea for temp work permits was even thought of, it was a great idea...some solution is better than doing nothing ...which is where we still are...I hope in reality America eventually come around and realizes that it needs to seize control of the huge drug trade and control it like other countries sucessfully do....just because Cocaine or Marijuana were to become legalized the assumption that I am going to run out and become an addict is absurd...I am a big boy and thanks to some scienctific proof I already know that stuff will kill ya. :)

I really believe it or not realize that alot of the resistance to change is the "Old" guard...old ideas and old people...:)really be trippy if all the 18-24 yr olds actually voted.

[Heibges]

I hate to think this immigration issue will decide the Presidential Election.

Folks that voted against the bill did so only for political advantage without a thought to reality.

The folks who want all the immigrants expelled are basically saying it is possible from a logistics standpoint to relocate all the people in New York City.

Could not have put it better...Democrats really are living in some dream world...theay are quick to condemn but offer NO Solutions....if so Where and what are they??? Please some one list them...somewhere...

Democrat Solutions / Republicans Solutions...

I would like to see both proposed solutions for all the major things pressing this coutry and the world...The war in Iraq...pollution,energy,etc etc...

I don't see many or any of the Democrats doing anything but trying to bash the Republicans which to me makes the Dems seem weak morally and or politically...is any one actually giving any "Realistic" solutions for any of the problems...frankly I am amazed that the idea for temp work permits was even thought of, it was a great idea...some solution is better than doing nothing ...which is where we still are...I hope in reality America eventually come around and realizes that it needs to seize control of the huge drug trade and control it like other countries sucessfully do....just because Cocaine or Marijuana were to become legalized the assumption that I am going to run out and become an addict is absurd...I am a big boy and thanks to some scienctific proof I already know that stuff will kill ya. :)

I really believe it or not realize that alot of the resistance to change is the "Old" guard...old ideas and old people...:)really be trippy if all the 18-24 yr olds actually voted.

The Democrats really chickened out which is sad.

They should have pushed for immediate withdrawal.

Unless they were going to send another 500,000 men over to Iraq, the so called "Surge", was what AL likes to call a strategy based on hope. Bush basically fought a delaying engagement to try and shift the blame to the Democrats.

Bush and Cheney, the Draft Dodging Dynamic Duo, need to take responsibilty for the mess they have created.

Just look at the German occupations of France, Russia, and Yugoslavia.

Or the French and Americans in Vietnam.

Or the English in America in 1776. :)

Occupations, regardless of the semantics and sophistry you use to describe them, are always drawn out and costly.

Occupation as a strategy is like punting on first down, and hoping your defense will win the game by scoring a safety, running back an interception or recovering a fumble in the endzone.

[waste gate]

That is an odd rambling response Heibges. It doesn't address the pertinant question as to the plan after withdrawal. In a way I understand your answer because the democrats haven't articulated any plan that you or anyone else can grab hold of.

100 days in control of the congress with 300 congressional investigations started.
No plan for any resolution of my countries issues. Don't get me wrong the less gov't does the better for me and you, but come on if the Democrats were elected for such a 'mandate', where the hell are they. Anyone who voted for them should be very angry with their performance. Where is the plan?

[Heibges]

The response was really only the first line.

The Democrats chickened out.

It appears no one has a plan.

But it's 100% Bush's fault as he is not doing anything effective. Remember he is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. There is NO group in Congress responsible for formulating military strategy.

[waste gate]

The response was really only the first line.

The Democrats chickened out.

It appears no one has a plan.

But it's 100% Bush's fault as he is not doing anything effective. Remember he is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. There is NO group in Congress responsible for formulating military strategy.

My apologizes, I looked at the thread in total and perhaps drew the wrong conclusion.

I don't think the Democrates pulled the chicken. They just don't have any plan other than to bash Bush. After all congress, Democrats included, did approve all of GWB's actions in OCT 2002. Democrats included regardless of their backing away now, based on bad intellegence , or we were lied to.

I think its time to admit that the Democrats have no plan, much less a better plan.

[bradclark1]

100 days in control of the congress with 300 congressional investigations started.

Payback time? Seems most things thus far is about payback.:shifty:
Beginning in 1995, Republican committees commenced a series of investigations, almost exclusively directed at the Clinton administration and the Democratic National Committee.
In all fairness as far as 100 days, how many days did the Republicans have? A little over 2000?

I think its time to admit that the Democrats have no plan, much less a better plan.
I don't think it's any big secret that the Democrats have been pushing for troop withdrawl.

[waste gate]

100 days in control of the congress with 300 congressional investigations started.

Payback time? Seems most things thus far is about payback.:shifty:
Beginning in 1995, Republican committees commenced a series of investigations, almost exclusively directed at the Clinton administration and the Democratic National Committee.
In all fairness as far as 100 days, how many days did the Republicans have? A little over 2000?

I think its time to admit that the Democrats have no plan, much less a better plan.
I don't think it's any big secret that the Democrats have been pushing for troop withdrawl.

Its worse than payback which certainly isn't the hallmark of leadership. Its called disregarding the will of the people who elected the current congress.

Still no plan.

[Heibges]

The response was really only the first line.

The Democrats chickened out.

It appears no one has a plan.

But it's 100% Bush's fault as he is not doing anything effective. Remember he is the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. There is NO group in Congress responsible for formulating military strategy.

My apologizes, I looked at the thread in total and perhaps drew the wrong conclusion.

I don't think the Democrates pulled the chicken. They just don't have any plan other than to bash Bush. After all congress, Democrats included, did approve all of GWB's actions in OCT 2002. Democrats included regardless of their backing away now, based on bad intellegence , or we were lied to.

I think its time to admit that the Democrats have no plan, much less a better plan.

I agree.

I think when the Democrats first took over Congress they wanted immediate pullout.

Then President Bush suggested his Troop Surge.

Then the Democrats got a little scared and talked about a scheduled for withdrawal.

Then the President said a schedule would be like admitting we had lost already, and the insurgents would just wait until we leave. Which I believe he was correct in assuming, but that is beside the point.

I think this is a comedy of errors.

The choice, to me is either pull out tomorrow or send 500,000 guys over there.

Really both the President and Congress have chosen to do what amounts to nothing.

I guess the question is, if we pull out, will the Iraqi's take control of their own country or will it end up like Lebanon.

[bradclark1]

Its worse than payback which certainly isn't the hallmark of leadership. Its called disregarding the will of the people who elected the current congress.

Since when has modern American politics been about the will of the people? It's about lining your pockets, getting reelected and lobbying for the business's that back you. Not that I've turned cynical or anything.

[bradclark1]

or will it end up like Lebanon.
You can write that in granite but I think it will be a lot savager. There's oil in them there hills.

Whoops. We've slid off topic.

[waste gate]

To be honest I am hard pressed to care about people who have no care about their own lives and allow their country used as a place for unimaginable violence. I am concerned about what withdrawal will mean to the US and our people. I don't even care how it affects Europe. They want to be on their own, I say let them work out how the Islamists convert their countries into theochracy.

The same rationale for democratacizing Iraq also works for the defeat of democracy. Its central ME location will cause great harm as a Al Qieda pont of operation or an Iranian one. Either way withdrawal means more death for US citizens.

[Heibges]

The only problem is that we created the unimaginable violence.

Alexander Haig once said the the Ayatollah Khomenie made the Shah look like an enlightened liberal.

In retrospect, I hope we can't say the same about Saddam.

[waste gate]

The only problem is that we created the unimaginable violence.

Alexander Haig once said the the Ayatollah Khomenie made the Shah look like an enlightened liberal.

In retrospect, I hope we can't say the same about Saddam.

No we did not. Ask the Kurds, or the Shia. Have you not seen the torture levied upon the Iraqi people by Sadam? Whippings, chemical attacks, who knows how many executions, throwing people off of roofs, imprisonment and beatings for loosing a football game.

[Heibges]

The only problem is that we created the unimaginable violence.

Alexander Haig once said the the Ayatollah Khomenie made the Shah look like an enlightened liberal.

In retrospect, I hope we can't say the same about Saddam.

No we did not. Ask the Kurds, or the Shia. Have you not seen the torture levied upon the Iraqi people by Sadam? Whippings, chemical attacks, who knows how many executions, throwing people off of roofs, imprisonment and beatings for loosing a football game.

But there was much less of it before, then after we invaded. Haig's point was that the Khomenie regime killed more people in a year, than the Shah did in 30.

[waste gate]

The only problem is that we created the unimaginable violence.

Alexander Haig once said the the Ayatollah Khomenie made the Shah look like an enlightened liberal.

In retrospect, I hope we can't say the same about Saddam.

No we did not. Ask the Kurds, or the Shia. Have you not seen the torture levied upon the Iraqi people by Sadam? Whippings, chemical attacks, who knows how many executions, throwing people off of roofs, imprisonment and beatings for loosing a football game.

But there was much less of it before, then after we invaded. Haig's point was that the Khomenie regime killed more people in a year, than the Shah did in 30.

Perhaps we just saw less of the above because dictatorships don't broadcast their wrong doing. Especially a regime that was already under UN supervision after its invasion of an other nation.

[bradclark1]

Perhaps we just saw less of the above because dictatorships don't broadcast their wrong doing. Especially a regime that was already under UN supervision after its invasion of an other nation.
That doesn't give us the power of god. I'll bet that a lot more have died "free" than Saddam or his homicidal sons killed. Two wrongs haven't made a right. Whether you/I/we like it or not there is no controlling the situation unless as Heibges stated earlier we send a massive quantity of troops over there and we don't have them. I don't think it will become an AQ headquarters but it is going to get a lot worse then it is now and maybe thats whats needed. No westerners telling the Iraqi government they have to play nice. Maybe we will be able to salvage Afghanistan who knows? The way it is now we are losing both.

[Heibges]

From Full Metal Jacket:

Eightball
Poor dumb bast!*&#'s. I guess they'd
rather be alive than free.

[Tchocky]

. I am concerned about what withdrawal will mean to the US and our people. I don't even care how it affects Europe. They want to be on their own, I say let them work out how the Islamists convert their countries into theochracy. Well it's not like the US cared how going into Iraq affected Europe, so why should the pullout be any different? :p