View Full Version : Liquid Cooling Options
After installing GWX and trying to run SH4, my poor cabinet confined PC is gasping for additional cooling...
I'm running dual 6800 ultras (sometimes SLI, sometimes not) and the game(s) are just locking up midway through patrols. I suspect it's from GPU overheating. I've noted that at the time of lockup the heatsinks on the 6800's are ouch-ey to the touch!
So, given my PC cabinet situation with confined airflow I'm now seriously considering liquid cooling... but I know nothing of it. Anyone have any recommendations for:
1) the preferred company to shop
2) a "how to" guide somewhere that might tell me what parts I'll need?
slow_n_ez
07-05-07, 09:35 AM
I personally have these http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/super_cooling/kingwin/arcticliquidcooler/index.htm
installed on 2 boxes .... they are ok and are easy to install ... but ... water cooling will only cool down the machine to whatever the room temp is at or maybe slightly cooler ......
a bunch of reviews for other brands at same place :
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/reviews.asp#Water%20Cooling
I'm running dual 6800 ultras (sometimes SLI, sometimes not) and the game(s) are just locking up midway through patrols. I suspect it's from GPU overheating. I've noted that at the time of lockup the heatsinks on the 6800's are ouch-ey to the touch!
I've had a very good cooling for my AthlonXP (2.7ghz) but after switching to A64 X2 I left it in my cabinet tired of refilling water. What I want to say is - its cool either way but requires a lot of work and care. I've had a closed circuit but somehow liquid was missing and bubbles made noise. You need to keep radiator very clean also.
Look for Black Ice Pro radiator for at least 2 fans, I've been using Glacial Silent Fans (1300rpm) but they produce hell lot of drag! Hoses need to be not to stiff and not to thin so they want bend after getting warm. As to the cooler itself I have a home made, very efficient piece. One thing, don't buy anything cheap and you don't need any fancy stuff. Simple works. If you want more help no prob, I can help u pick the parts.
Ah the pump - Hydor L20, very cheap but I would suggest browsing forum for something at 12V.
PS As Silenting lots of hours maybe I'll put my cooling back on as X2 produces a lot of heat?
http://mrhadrys.com/allegro/wc1.jpg
http://mrhadrys.com/allegro/wc2.jpg
antikristuseke
07-05-07, 09:59 AM
Wouldnt it be easyer just to add some case fans if you have none rather than going for watercooling. Myself im runing a single 7800gtx and a highly overclocked opty 165 witha a zalman 9700-cu to cool it, no problems even when the ambient temp is 35C, which is rare here. Allso have two 120mm fans to improve airflow in my case. One duct taped to the top of the case front where the covers for the cd drive bays would be and one in the side ofhte case. Made the hole myself but i suppose not everyone has access to large punch press benches. Sometimes being a sheetmetal worker comes in handy.
Incidentally, for those interested in learning more about water cooling systems, I just found this great article on Tom's Hardware. :yep: Was dated Mar 2007, so it's pretty-well up to date too!
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/28/a-beginners-guide-for-watercooling-your-pc/index.html
I'm looking into integrated case cooling systems... At the moment, I'm leaning toward Koolance.
I used to have my CPU water cooled, worked very well, but later (about 8 months ago) tried a refrigerated type on my AMD Athlon 64 3700+ & works much better, even on hot days running SHIII doesn't get over 35 degrees C. The cooler is a Vapochill Micro, I would imagine by now there would be ones for GPU's as well.:yep:
I'm looking into integrated case cooling systems... At the moment, I'm leaning toward Koolance.
I wouldn't go for complete kits... it's always a matter of compromise or maybe something has changed?
Try putting some 120mm fans with large volume to see what happens with the temp. Maybe a smart placed silent 120 fan - good case vent - would be enough like others suggested.
Guysmiley
07-05-07, 01:02 PM
After installing GWX and trying to run SH4, my poor cabinet confined PC is gasping for additional cooling...
Unless I misunderstand, your computer is in an enclosed cabinet and is overheating, yes?
Water cooling will not solve the problem unless you mount the radiator externally, outside the cabinet. If not, you're still trying to cool your computer case with hot air. No matter how big a radiator or high volume a pump you use, you'll never get it cooler than the cabinet interior.
I would propose instead you actively cool the cabinet with fans or better yet don't keep your gaming PC in an enclosed space.
Water cooling can be very effective in certain circumstances, this does not sound like one of them.
After installing GWX and trying to run SH4, my poor cabinet confined PC is gasping for additional cooling...
Unless I misunderstand, your computer is in an enclosed cabinet and is overheating, yes?
Water cooling will not solve the problem unless you mount the radiator externally, outside the cabinet. If not, you're still trying to cool your computer case with hot air. No matter how big a radiator or high volume a pump you use, you'll never get it cooler than the cabinet interior.
I would propose instead you actively cool the cabinet with fans or better yet don't keep your gaming PC in an enclosed space.
Water cooling can be very effective in certain circumstances, this does not sound like one of them.
I've positioned my cabinet such that it backs up to one of the A/C intakes for my house. There's plenty of airflow through the cabinet.
My problem I think is that:
1) still using the stock heatsinks that came with the GPU's
2) with 2 GPU's and all cabling it makes for a cramped case (hindering airflow)
Right now, I've got the side cover off the case and when the A/C is running there's lot's of airflow thru the cabinet... but the 2 GPU heatsinks are still getting really hot (probably like 120° to 130°-ish range).
The water-cooling option is pricey, no doubt. I'm estimating around $600 at the moment for a good integrated system. :doh: An external system I could do for maybe half the price... but for the dual GPU's I dunno... I might need 1000w cooling.
Yeah I'm thinking in the end I may have to go external so the heat exchanger could sit outside and on top of the cabinet. I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to buy a small refrigerator and convert it to a PC case. :lol:
Whadya think, should I first just try for a couple good aftermarket sinks for the GPU's? :hmm:
I used to have my CPU water cooled, worked very well, but later (about 8 months ago) tried a refrigerated type on my AMD Athlon 64 3700+ & works much better, even on hot days running SHIII doesn't get over 35 degrees C. The cooler is a Vapochill Micro, I would imagine by now there would be ones for GPU's as well.:yep:
Here I was joking about using a fridge as a CPU case; and they went and done it! The non-micro version is HUUUUGE.
The VapoChill stuff definitely looks cool... alas, I see no GPU cooling options listed in the product line over at http://www.asetek.com/
What did the VapoChill Micro CPU cooler cost ya and where'd you order yours from?
Asetek sells cases that keep your components cooled at sub-zero temps but they're bloody expensive with prices near $900. I have no experience with them but they've always been my fantasy upgrade for achieving insane over clocking speeds :D
Asetek (http://www2.asetek.com/default.asp?showPage=startside.asp¶m=sideid&myvalue=14&contentSection=2&menuID=-1)
Schöneboom
07-05-07, 04:01 PM
I can imagine rigging a little air duct that takes some of the chilled output from your home A/C, sending it straight into your PC case. Could be funky-looking, but it sounds practical & cheap!
I can imagine rigging a little air duct that takes some of the chilled output from your home A/C, sending it straight into your PC case. Could be funky-looking, but it sounds practical & cheap!
I believe it's the potential for condensation that kills that idea... I put mine in front of the return, so yeah it benefits from the airflow, but I don't think I'd have duct work to blow cold directly on hot PC internals.
Also, my A/C doesn't stay on permanently so the benefit if any fluctuates...
Asetek sells cases that keep your components cooled at sub-zero temps but they're bloody expensive with prices near $900. I have no experience with them but they've always been my fantasy upgrade for achieving insane over clocking speeds :D
Asetek (http://www2.asetek.com/default.asp?showPage=startside.asp¶m=sideid&myvalue=14&contentSection=2&menuID=-1)
Well... the compressor core temp is sub-zero... but not your PC internals. If so, you'd be chipping ice from the inside of your machine.
Yeah, I'm still thinking a water-cooled system is where I'm headed, but the thing's gonna easily put a $600 dent in my account.
Yeah, I'm still thinking a water-cooled system is where I'm headed, but the thing's gonna easily put a $600 dent in my account.
Eeee is it made from 24k gold? In Poland my system from the photo + fans cost 150 bucks top, add max (!) 50 bucks for a second heatsink... and we have computer stuff a lot more expensive than in US.
Teh_Diplomat
07-05-07, 05:38 PM
Buy an Antec 900 Case.
It has a 200mm top fan and comes with 3 speed adjustable 120mm fans. It also has room for two more 120 mm fans as well. :rock:
you shouldn't need liquid cooling unless your doing some serious overclocking.
antikristuseke
07-05-07, 06:53 PM
And even then top end air coolers are on par with most water cooling setups while costing conciderably less.
Yeah, I'm still thinking a water-cooled system is where I'm headed, but the thing's gonna easily put a $600 dent in my account.
Eeee is it made from 24k gold? In Poland my system from the photo + fans cost 150 bucks top, add max (!) 50 bucks for a second heatsink... and we have computer stuff a lot more expensive than in US.
I was looking for something a little larger than what you showed.
An integrated 1000w water cooling system/case runs about $440
http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28_43&products_id=331
Then I'd need a CPU cooling block... another $30
...and dual GPU cooling blocks... probably bout $100
That puts it at about $570-ish
Seth8530
07-05-07, 07:36 PM
perhaps you could do a test. take your pc out of that terrible cabinet. take the side of the case off. and see if it crashes anymore. Have you gone dust hunting? that can work miricals. Try that and see if it helps.
No dust... it's sparkly.
It's been outta the cabinet with side panel off for a week now. I might try putting a huge indoor fan next to it on high and let it blow straight into the thing.
If it works that'll be my $20 cooling solution. :smug:
@ aaronblood, I purchased mine here as well as "the fridge" for my GPU:
http://coolpc.com.au/catalog/
On some video cards you can have a cooling fan on both sides!:yep:
The cost for the Vapochill micro was AU $72, probably around US $50.:up:
Cheers.
Seth8530
07-05-07, 10:19 PM
No dust... it's sparkly.
It's been outta the cabinet with side panel off for a week now. I might try putting a huge indoor fan next to it on high and let it blow straight into the thing.
If it works that'll be my $20 cooling solution. :smug:
yeah see if that works could save you 540$. or you could just by a 8800gtx instead of the liquid cooling...
Not sure if you've thought of this but if you have it backed up the intake of the a/c system, then isn't that were the warm air goes in to get cooled? Wouldn't it be better to back it up to an output vent to get a cool airflow rather than a warm one?
these guys are UK based but they do ship internationally and seem to know what they are doing. I think they've got some cheaper solutions than $600 even with the forex.
http://www.water-cooling.com/
Teh_Diplomat
07-06-07, 12:07 AM
No dust... it's sparkly.
It's been outta the cabinet with side panel off for a week now. I might try putting a huge indoor fan next to it on high and let it blow straight into the thing.
If it works that'll be my $20 cooling solution. :smug:
How many internal fans do you have?
If you're running an SLI configuration you should have at least one 120mm fan blowing air on the the Graphics Cards(You can attach it to the HDD tray) to keep them cool. Also if you can move any PCI cards(Soundcard, Wi-Fi) down another slot to give it move airflow the better.
But I assure you, two more 120 mm fans in you case will solve your overheating problems.
I was looking for something a little larger than what you showed.
An integrated 1000w water cooling system/case runs about $440
http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=28_43&products_id=331
Then I'd need a CPU cooling block... another $30
...and dual GPU cooling blocks... probably bout $100
That puts it at about $570-ish
Yeah, Koolance knows how to count money but I'm not that sure about efficiency. The most important parts are radiator and blocks right? Radiator is the same as mine + one more slot (there are 1-2-3 slot, thicker and thinner types). Difference in cost is marginal, depends more on where you intend to put your radiator. Open system - I prefer closed circuit as more efficient. Blocks from manufacturers like Koolance are very expensive and most of the time less effective than small, local manufacturers! But you need to dig a lot through the net.
I'm really wondering if this kit is 1000W... that is like buying a 600W sticker PSU that really has 350W... If they write - 3x faster water flow... sorry, but with such thin hoses, open circuit and water speeding like crazy it want work. Water needs time to take the heat than loose it through radiator.
All I want to say that yes, this kit will work, maybe even for you but I can't imagine SLI + CPU on this one... You pay a lot of cash for fancy stuff which is not the best performer.
As to 1000W. I don't rember as it was some time ago but my AthlonXP was 2500+ 1.45V (1.8ghz) and overclocked to 2.7ghz at 2.05V !!! It was like a heater, no thermal throttling etc. My CPU block turned out to be one of the most efficient in the world this time (2 years ago) and this cpu was running at my room temp at idle and up to 50° die temp during burn in (not cpu case tamp).
Now with my X2 and 6800GT I'm considering:
http://mcs.pc.pl/produkt1486.html
http://mcs.pc.pl/produkt1772.html
http://mcs.pc.pl/produkt1609.html
Forgive me links in polish but there are photos and product names. This kit should do for me as a quiet, elegant solution and service (dust) free. This is most important for me now. But as I don't have that case yet maybe I'll test my WC kit with X2 cpu?
Good luck, I was setting up my rig for 2 months digging the net!
Not sure if you've thought of this but if you have it backed up the intake of the a/c system, then isn't that were the warm air goes in to get cooled? Wouldn't it be better to back it up to an output vent to get a cool airflow rather than a warm one?
these guys are UK based but they do ship internationally and seem to know what they are doing. I think they've got some cheaper solutions than $600 even with the forex.
http://www.water-cooling.com/
Yeah we sorta covered the "blow cold air on hot PC internals" idea...
condensation = bad
Thanks for the link... I'll probably be researching and testing a bit for the next week before actually buying anything.
No dust... it's sparkly.
It's been outta the cabinet with side panel off for a week now. I might try putting a huge indoor fan next to it on high and let it blow straight into the thing.
If it works that'll be my $20 cooling solution. :smug:
How many internal fans do you have?
If you're running an SLI configuration you should have at least one 120mm fan blowing air on the the Graphics Cards(You can attach it to the HDD tray) to keep them cool. Also if you can move any PCI cards(Soundcard, Wi-Fi) down another slot to give it move airflow the better.
But I assure you, two more 120 mm fans in you case will solve your overheating problems.
All I've got are the two GPU's on an ASUS A8NSLI Deluxe board. No extra sound or Wi-Fi cards.
I will take the advice of those who are suggesting more fans and do a little testing this weekend. My present situation is woeful; I've only got:
1) the fan that's installed internally to the power supply
2) the small fan on top of the CPU heatsink
3) one small fan on the front of the case to suck air in
No exhaust fans or fans close the GPU's :down:
I may have to cut a hole in the side panel to mount another fan or two.
@ aaronblood, I purchased mine here as well as "the fridge" for my GPU:
http://coolpc.com.au/catalog/
On some video cards you can have a cooling fan on both sides!:yep:
The cost for the Vapochill micro was AU $72, probably around US $50.:up:
Cheers.
I may very well end up getting one of these for the CPU and installing some fans to blow on the GPU's
or you could just by a 8800gtx instead of the liquid cooling...
That ain't a half-bad idea... :up:
danlisa
07-06-07, 11:27 AM
Call me old fashioned - :88) - but........water + electric.:hmm: no thank you. One leak and your killer system is knackered.
I think the old ways are best, heatsinks and case/processor fans. Besides, a good fan can drop your internal temps to below room temp. (extreme)
Call me old fashioned - :88) - but........water + electric.:hmm: no thank you. One leak and your killer system is knackered.
I think the old ways are best, heatsinks and case/processor fans. Besides, a good fan can drop your internal temps to below room temp. (extreme)
Well you wouldn't use tap water. :huh:
I've completely submerged electric motors (while running) in non-conductive fluid to clean em.
There are plenty of non-conductive liquid coolant options for PC's. Potential leakage wasn't even a factor in the decision for me...
Seth8530
07-06-07, 09:28 PM
or you could just by a 8800gtx instead of the liquid cooling...
That ain't a half-bad idea... :up:
glad that my opinion could be of use.:)
XanderF
07-07-07, 04:47 AM
*scratches head*
Ummm...I mean, all this watercooling advice is great and all (I actually did an evaporative cooling tower myself, once), but...
...are we missing the forest for the trees, here?
You realize you could eBay both your 6800 Ultras, and with that money in addition to about the cost of a good watercooling system, you could pick up a GeForce 8800GTX. Just one.
That would:
A) Consume a LOT less power than 2x 6800 Ultras
B) Run a LOT cooler
C) Run a LOT quieter (very significant improvements in fan design between generations)
D) Perform much, much faster. About twice as fast, actually, as the 6800 Ultras when SLI is working. Only there is no need to SLI, it will work just fine at that speed with the one card.
Alright... so this is what I did this weekend.
First, I picked up a larger power supply (670W vs. the old 500W). I can use the old 500W supply for another one of the PCs I'm eventually going to have to put together for the kids anyway so in the end I'm not really out a whole lotta cash for the extra power.
Secondly, I bought and installed 2 120mm fans at $20 each. I also added a little exhaust fan that I happened to have layin round.
A few months from now, when I start putting together the new PC(s) for the kids, I'll probably use one or both of the 6800s in the kids PC's and I'll just go ahead and pick up a new 8800 (or whatever) at that time.
So... I bought a new power supply $130, and $40 for the fans so my investment this weekend was about $170 and I've got some spare parts layin round now for when I put together the kids PC.
This pretty much solved all my SH3 GWX PC-related issues. ...it also made SH4 run a lot more stable... dare I say it's even almost playable?
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