Beta test.

[cappy70]

I wonder,, if a Beta test for the gaming community would have made the store-release less "buggy ,well at least some of the "early-release", to a less "early-release-buggy"?

Meaning: Release a Beta to the test ( I know a lot is going on in this area,, without naming names), take the "heat" and see what is not right and THEN release the game.

[Drebbel]

Beta tests from this community in the past have shown that the main thing that matters is the will of the company to fix the actual bugs and pospone the release date, or invest more money and resources, of the original or the patches. Finding the bugs is no problem.

[John Channing]

And to continue with Drebbel's thought, the release date was the release date. No amount of testing, in-house or outside, was going to change that. Everything that could have been fixed by that date was.

JCC

[Navarre]

Beta tests from this community in the past have shown that the main thing that matters is the will of the company to fix the actual bugs and pospone the release date
Agree!

Within the last years, I participated in some closed beta tests for games, only in one case of those, the development time was extended due to the test results and thereafter a re-test was initiated.

My conclusion of this, in the future I will not any longer participate in such illusory beta tests, because the time spent is simply too unfortunate for me, since in most cases a test result does not interest anybody of the responsible persons.

[Mush Martin]

Well im not among the great critics of sh4 but the corporate paradigm
prevails, and doubtless will continue to.

the trick is to get all the consumers in the world on the same
page then they will dance.

[SteamWake]

Ive said it like 100 times now.

The product was placed on the shelves unfinished to meet quartely profit projections.

There wasent "time" for a beta period.

[TDK1044]

The theory of Beta testing is that the Beta testers find and flag all the problems and the Developers then fix them. The reality is that the Beta testers are not always testing the latest version of the game, and even when they are, there isn't sufficient time to fix what they've found and meet the 'Release Deadline', which is very expensive to move because of all the tentacles associated with it.

Several significant patches are therefore usually inevitable with modern video games, unless a realistic and therefore more expensive production schedule is created in the first place.

[Von Tonner]

Ive said it like 100 times now.

The product was placed on the shelves unfinished to meet quartely profit projections.

There wasent "time" for a beta period.

I totally agree. SteamWake's comment is the absolute truth on the matter.

[John Channing]

Unless you have some sort of inside, high-level source at Ubisoft I am not sure how you can say that is the "absolute truth on the matter".

There are other possibilities.

JCC

[stabiz]

Why would they release it unfinished otherwise? Seriously? Its not like this game has a worldwide marketing campaign to follow, and the only thing reviewers have moaned about are the bugs.

Its easy to conclude that the game would have sold better if they had postponed it a few months, and get better reviews, in stead of players postponing the purchase in await of patches. The buzz eventually dies down, their main consumer base dont visit subsim every day like we do to check for mods that fixes glaring gameplay issues.

[AVGWarhawk]

If you look at the timeline of game release and how quickly the first patch hit the net, one can surmise that beta testing was done. The game was forced into gold for making the discs. In that time of production the patch to correct serious bugs was created and given to the masses. Whoever is to blame makes very little difference now. The fact that they are creating a third patch to widdle down the most glaring bugs that remain is what is important. Given the length of time thus far on the third patch, it looks like the handful of people left to correct these issues are doing their best to make this patch the patch to end all patches as this will probably be the last. So, we sit and wait hoping the really serious issues are addressed. I for one will not nit-pick the lesser problems. Currently the game is just fine. Two things, fix the radar so it detects no matter your heading and make the TDC dead on concerning the measurement of the targets and range reading. Other than that, we thank the modders who make a good game, great! Case and point, SH3 was a good game out of the box, the modders over the months and years have made it great! Sometimes I wonder if we are just a bit spoiled with what was achieved with SH3 and expecting SH4 to be much the same out of he box. I do not need to go into what SH4 has that many requested be implemented into the game. Many requests have found there way into SH4. Do I believe the developers were listening to our requests? Absolutely! Do I believe the last remaining major bugs will be address? Sure do.

[SteamWake]

Unless you have some sort of inside, high-level source at Ubisoft I am not sure how you can say that is the "absolute truth on the matter".

There are other possibilities.

JCC

Ill grant you that JC. Its more like an educated guess :know:

[AVGWarhawk]

Unless you have some sort of inside, high-level source at Ubisoft I am not sure how you can say that is the "absolute truth on the matter".

There are other possibilities.

JCC

Ill grant you that JC. Its more like an educated guess :know:

Probably a good guess as well. Everything is dollars and cents. Mostly dollars;)

[John Channing]

Eaxctly my point. But dollars are not just sales. You also have to consider costs and logistics.

Once the release date is set a myriad of things are set into motion , all of which incur costs. Duplication plants have to be booked in several countries, packaging has to be arranged for, shipping has to be arranged, store displays and RDA negotiated, and on and on. If the developenmt team misses the deadline there would be some severe penalties incurred in cancelling or delaying these. This type of costs would not have been captured in the original budget, so that comes right off the botom line for the project.

So (and this is only one possibility), like it or not the decision is made to hit the original Master date, and keep the team working to fix as many things as they can between Master and Release.

It is a business, after all.

JCC

[SteamWake]

Eaxctly my point. But dollars are not just sales. You also have to consider costs and logistics.

Once the release date is set a myriad of things are set into motion , all of which incur costs. Duplication plants have to be booked in several countries, packaging has to be arranged for, shipping has to be arranged, store displays and RDA negotiated, and on and on. If the developenmt team misses the deadline there would be some severe penalties incurred in cancelling or delaying these. This type of costs would not have been captured in the original budget, so that comes right off the botom line for the project.

So (and this is only one possibility), like it or not the decision is made to hit the original Master date, and keep the team working to fix as many things as they can between Master and Release.

It is a business, after all.

JCC

I think that pretty much sums it up.

The question is... do they delay and fix the known issues before going gold and have addittional costs. Or get it on the shelves post haste and have the patch team working double over time in order to get a hotfix available on the web ?

Downside ... Bad reviews, angry 'community'. Does this hurt sales ? Meh.. jurys out on that one.

[John Channing]

My guess would be no, in the short run anyway.

Let's face it... us bunch of fanatic here would be down there with cash in our hands and droll on our chins the first day. So that's money in the bank.

On the other extreme you have the very casual gamer who sees the box and picks it up cuz it looks cool. No danger of losing them.

So it is the middle ground of gamers that are likely to be swayed by reviews and the like. Judging by the impressive influx of new posters and registrations (not to mention an dramatic upswing in non-registered lurkers), and the overall tone and curve of the postings, a lot of the middle of the road players went out and bought it, and then made up their minds after reading (some) reviews and a lot of posts here and elsewhere.

But as far as Ubisoft is concerned that's OK, as they have already paid their money.

But I could be wrong.

JCC

Oh.... one last thing. I just re-read the thread and I can promise you there was a Beta testing period.

[GT182]

I could be wrong but I believe there were a few beta testers from here at SubSim. Neal was one if I remember right, I believe he said so. As for others I can only guess.... :yep: But, I'd venture a guess.... :hmm: .... JC was one too.

[Von Tonner]

Unless you have some sort of inside, high-level source at Ubisoft I am not sure how you can say that is the "absolute truth on the matter".

There are other possibilities.

JCC

True. But if I was a betting man, this is where I think the smart money would be. Bottomline dictates.

UBISOFT REPORTS FISCAL YEAR 2006-07 RESULTS
• Sales up 24% versus market growth of 5%.

• Current operating income in line with target recently revised upwards: €38.3 million, or 5.6% of sales.

• Net income reaches record level of €40.5 million.

• Cash flows from operating activities up €85.5 million to €53.2 million.

• Positive net cash position: €55.0 million, up €120.3 million.

• Outlook for 2007-08 confirmed.

Read the integral version by downloading the PDF

[Major Johnson]

Let's face it... us bunch of fanatic here would be down there with cash in our hands and droll on our chins the first day. So that's money in the bank.

Judging by the impressive influx of new posters and registrations (not to mention an dramatic upswing in non-registered lurkers), and the overall tone and curve of the postings, a lot of the middle of the road players went out and bought it, and then made up their minds after reading (some) reviews and a lot of posts here and elsewhere.


Yes, I was one of the fanatics that went out and bought, not one, but two copies as soon as it came to my area.

And I never lurked :) , I registered as soon as I found this forum. Good threads and knowledgable players! :up:

[SteamWake]

Dont lose sight of the fact that this 'community' or these forums represent a very small cross section of the 'customer' at large.

A portion of this small cross section ran out and bought a copy as soon as it was on the shelf or pre-ordered.

Id be willing to bet a large number of the end consumers (if not the majoirty) had the following experience.

"Hey cool a submarine game". Buys it and brings it home and installs it. Reads the 'manual' while its installing. Finally plays the game for a while hits the A key to level off (like the manual said) and BAM drop to desk top. WTF he cries ! Loads it up again plays for a while and tries something described in the manual. It of course doesent work. WTF he cries. Then he finally figures out how to work the radar but whats this ? It only works sometimes.... WTF he cries, removes the disk, puts Tomb Raider back in.... end of story.

Then theres the 'educated' consumer. The guy who wont buy any game till he reads the reviews. The reviews say "Game is pretty good but riddled with bugs and CTD's". What a shame educated consumer states shakes his head and puts the magazine down.

[mookiemookie]

I could be wrong but I believe there were a few beta testers from here at SubSim. Neal was one if I remember right, I believe he said so. As for others I can only guess.... :yep: But, I'd venture a guess.... :hmm: .... JC was one too.

Neal was. When we loaded torpedoes on the Cavalla back in February, he told me he'd been playing SH4 for a while. I threatened to jump him in the parking lot. :lol: