computer memory question

[AVGWarhawk]

My computer uses PC 2700 memory (184 pin) 333 Mhz RAM. I see that I could install PC 3200 memory (184 pin) 400 Mhz RAM. Would I see any type of decent performance increase if I install PC 3200?

[Chock]

Yup, you'd notice a difference for sure, it wouldn't be huge, but anything is a bonus, you'd most likely spot it in reduced load times for programs. You might find that the speeded up calculations will cause more heat and they'll certainly use more power, so be ready for the need to increase cooling or upgrade your power supply unit. However, all that aside, one deciding factor for me would be this:

If I can manage it, I try and do what I call 'rolling upgrades', that is, any component which I buy to install has to be suitable for installation on the next motherboard I'm going to install, so that if and when I upgrade, the upgrade can be brought in over time, using components I already have, to reduce the need for spending a huge amount of cash all at once.

So for me the criteria would be, is that RAM going to be any use on what I envisage will be my next motherboard/system, and if it isn't, then I'd be better off going straight for a motherboard upgrade. I think it's unlikely that the RAM you are considering would do the latest motherboards justice, but if you are a while away from building something from the ground up, it's probably worth doing providing it doesn't cost too much.

:D Chock

[fatty]

My computer uses PC 2700 memory (184 pin) 333 Mhz RAM. I see that I could install PC 3200 memory (184 pin) 400 Mhz RAM. Would I see any type of decent performance increase if I install PC 3200?

It depends on your processor, IIRC. Find out what the value of your front side bus is and double it to figure out the compatable memory. My Athlon 2500+ [in bad need of an upgrade] has an FSB of 166, which means my memory is limited to 2700 (2 x 166 = 333) unless I want to overclock, despite the fact that my motherboard can support 3200.

[AVGWarhawk]

I'm running a AMD 64 3200+. I do not know what the FSB speed is. 400mhz?

Would it be better to have a stick of 1gig PC2700 and a 512 stick of PC2700 for a total of 1.5 gig RAM of the PC2700 variety or would just 1 gig of PC3200 be just as fast?

[SUBMAN1]

I think your Athlon is the 200 MHz FSB, DDR400, PC3200 type by the way. I heard there was a 333 3200 at one point, but I've never seen one.

You will se absolutely '0' speed improvement. The 3200 memory can clock in at 200 MHz FSB (400 MHz if you count the rising and falling clock cycle and being able to do a transaction on either end), but if your BUS is running at 166 Mhz (333 Mhz DDR), so add ing 3200 memory to a 166 bus will make it run at 2700 speeds. But if you have a 200 MHz, you have to use 3200 based memory if you plan to run your CPU at normal speed.

-S

PS. 2700 memory will not run on a 200 MHz based system, which is probably what you have.

PPS. Had to edit this one - noticed that you probably have a 200 MHz based system.

[AVGWarhawk]

@subman1

I will have to check for sure what sticks I have but with that said, would it be best to just add a 1 gig along with a 512 stick of the same memory type for better performance?

[SUBMAN1]

@subman1

I will have to check for sure what sticks I have but with that said, would it be best to just add a 1 gig along with a 512 stick of the same memory type for better performance?
More memory is always better. Doesn't help on a 32 bit system to go past 3 GB since you can only use extra memory beyond that point for the Windows kernel, but on an XP box, I'd not go anywhere less than 1.5 GB for the games today. On SHIV, you will notice a marked improvement with more memory, especially in the loading screens. 1 GB is just not enough anymore.

ONe thing I forgot to mention - if you have a dual channel system, you must used matched memory to get the full benefit out of it. That allows 4 transactions per clock cycle instead of the DDR (Stands for double data rate) 2 transactions per clock cycle.

3200 in a dual channel system can have a peak bandwidth of 6.4 GB/sec. Pretty fast for normal memory.

-S

PS. The way a dual channel system works is that it hits each module indpendantly in parallel. It is kind of like a RAID 0 drive system. In a single clock cycle, you hit both RAM modules independantly, so you can do 2 transactions on the first, and 2 transactions on the second, resulting in a total of 4 transactions, effectively doubling the normal RAM throughput - this is why you need 2 matched memory modules - they need to be the same size and same timing - preferably modules made from the same batch or manufactured together at the exact same time.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well that is the thing. I have two 512 sticks of memory. I think PC2700. So it would be OK to install 1 gig stick of PC2700 and 512 stick of PC2700 this configuration should work OK giving me 1.5 RAM?

[SUBMAN1]

Well that is the thing. I have two 512 sticks of memory. I think PC2700. So it would be OK to install 1 gig stick of PC2700 and 512 stick of PC2700 this configuration should work OK giving me 1.5 RAM?
Yes. But, if your system is dual channel enabled, this RAM will not work in dual channel and it will make you single channel only if you install it, effectively bring you back down to 2 transactions per clock cycle. Not a big deal though because this is fast enough. The benefits of more memory outweigh any negatives imposed here.

I doubt your memory that is installed is 2700 - that is if you are running at 3200 speeds. That is unless it has a heat spreader on it. The Athlon 3200 + XP's were all if not almost all running with a 200 MHz BUS and at 3200 speeds.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well that is the thing. I have two 512 sticks of memory. I think PC2700. So it would be OK to install 1 gig stick of PC2700 and 512 stick of PC2700 this configuration should work OK giving me 1.5 RAM?
Yes. But, if your system is dual channel enabled, this RAM will not work in dual channel and it will make you single channel only if you install it, effectively bring you back down to 2 transactions per clock cycle. Not a big deal though because this is fast enough. The benefits of more memory outweigh any negatives imposed here.

I doubt your memory that is installed is 2700 - that is if you are running at 3200 speeds. That is unless it has a heat spreader on it. The Athlon 3200 + XP's were all if not almost all running with a 200 MHz BUS and at 3200 speeds.

Any idea how to find out if it is running at dual channels? Effectively I originally purchased the computer with 512 and just added similar RAM to make 1 gig. My plan is to remove one of the 512 and add a 1 gig in this slot.

[SUBMAN1]

Well that is the thing. I have two 512 sticks of memory. I think PC2700. So it would be OK to install 1 gig stick of PC2700 and 512 stick of PC2700 this configuration should work OK giving me 1.5 RAM?
Yes. But, if your system is dual channel enabled, this RAM will not work in dual channel and it will make you single channel only if you install it, effectively bring you back down to 2 transactions per clock cycle. Not a big deal though because this is fast enough. The benefits of more memory outweigh any negatives imposed here.

I doubt your memory that is installed is 2700 - that is if you are running at 3200 speeds. That is unless it has a heat spreader on it. The Athlon 3200 + XP's were all if not almost all running with a 200 MHz BUS and at 3200 speeds.
Any idea how to find out if it is running at dual channels? Effectively I originally purchased the computer with 512 and just added similar RAM to make 1 gig. My plan is to remove one of the 512 and add a 1 gig in this slot.
It should tell you upon posting, that is if you don't have any graphic logo coming on to cover it up. If your board supports it, it will automatically be enabled if you computer thinks it can be. The first clue to finding out is to look in your motherboard manual. If you've lost it, get the motherboard model number and download a copy of the manual off the manufacturers site.

By the way, the only chipsets to really support dual channel only came from ATI or NVidia, so if you have a crossfire chipset (unlikely) or an NForce chipset up to rev 2 (Rev 3 I think was Athlon 64 only), then you have dual channel. If you are using a VIA chipset or soemthing else, then you probably don't have dual channel.

-S

[Wxman]

Most current mobos support dual-channel these days. Mobo's that may not are those that don't have an even number of memory slots, i.e., three slots, although in that case they still may if two sticks populate the slots. Moreover, if the memory slots are color coded (with two slots being blue), this is an indicator that the mobo supports dual-channel. If single sticks populate two different color coded memory slots, then dual-channel will not be implemented. And if all slots of an odd number slot configuration are populated, then dual-channel will defacto be disabled.

The best way to determine dual-channel memory implementation/support is to look in the BIOS itself. Press DEL at boot-up, and then look in the memory configuration page. It should have an option to enable dual-channel. If its set to auto, then it'll be enabled if and when appropriate memory is found by SPD at boot time. The safest way to exit BIOS is to chose the "exit discarding changes" option (even if you don't think you changed anything).

Furthermore, it is never a good idea to mix memory timings of one's RAM. ALWAYS populate the board with identical timings. And in the case of dual channel, even pairs of similar timing & speed RAM in the appropriate slots. Memory speed is important, but even more important are the timings, e.g. 2-2-2-5, etc., you don't want to be populating the board with similar speed (but different timing) sticks of RAM. Not many BIOS have timing setups for each stick.

If you presently have 2x512MB PC2700 on the board, then you won't see much performance increase at all (unless you're doing memory intensive applicatoin use, e.g., sound, video, CAD, etc.) You may notice a performance increase if you scrap your existing 2x512 PC2700 and replace it with PC3200 (although I doubt that an 18% increase in RAM speed will be all that noticeable). However, if you run something like BOINC, that 18% will add up over time.

[SUBMAN1]

Most current mobos support dual-channel these days. Mobo's that may not are those that don't have an even number of memory slots, i.e., three slots, although in that case they still may if two sticks populate the slots. Moreover, if the memory slots are color coded (with two slots being blue), this is an indicator that the mobo supports dual-channel. If single sticks populate two different color coded memory slots, then dual-channel will not be implemented.

The best way to determine dual-channel memory implementation/support is to look in the BIOS itself. Press DEL at boot-up, and then look in the memory configuration page. It should have an option to enable dual-channel. If its set to auto, then it'll be enabled if and when appropriate memory is found by SPD at boot time. The safest way to exit BIOS is to chose the "exit discarding changes" option (even if you don't think you changed anything).

Furthermore, it is never a good idea to mix memory timings of one's RAM. ALWAYS populate the board with identical timings. And in the case of dual channel, even pairs of similar timing & speed RAM in the appropriate slots. Memory speed is important, but even more important are the timings, e.g. 2-2-2-5, etc., you don't want to be populating the board with similar speed (but different timing) sticks of RAM. Not many BIOS have timing setups for each stick.
He has an Athlon 3200. He only has 3 motherboard chipsets for his CPU in the day when that CPU was popular that supports dual channel. Nforce 1 and 2 and maybe a Crossfire based board.

By the way, I have yet to see a BIOS that allows you to enable or disable dual channel (though they probably exist on cheaper motherboards since most motherboards will auto-detect it). ALso, I've only seen one motherboard that only has 2 RAM slots that supports dual channel. almost all of them have 3 or 4 ram slots, with the majority being 3. It depends on the memory configuration or not as to whether or not it is enabled. slot 2 & 3, if used alone, will enable dual channel for example (its almost always backwards on 3 slot configurations), and using slot 1 & 2 is not dual channel enabled. However if all 3 slots are used, it will also disable dual channel. On later 4 slot motherboards, you were able to use 2 seperate sets of dual chaneel enabled memory.

Anyway, to figure out how to enable dual channel, or for proper memory configurations, this is why you need the manual.

Dual channel is not as big a deal as more memory however. The speed improvements for the faster ram are not really noticeable, but it is probably measurable. If this was video card RAM however, that might be a different story.

[Chock]

Useful for determining what your computer will and won't support, and what is in it and what speeds its various busses run at,is this:

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

Great little application - highly recommended.

:D Chock

[SUBMAN1]

An example on how to enable dual channel on my current MB:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5397/dcce5.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Ok, besides dual channels and speed etc. Can a stick of 1 gig RAM and another stick of 512 RAM be used on the same motherboard? I always see people say the have 1.5 gig of RAM which means they have a stick of 1 gig and 512 stick or possibly 3 sticks of 512?

[SUBMAN1]

Ok, besides dual channels and speed etc. Can a stick of 1 gig RAM and another stick of 512 RAM be used on the same motherboard? I always see people say the have 1.5 gig of RAM which means they have a stick of 1 gig and 512 stick or possibly 3 sticks of 512?

Yes. Careful though, some of those older boards don't take too well to high density 1 GB mem modules. Mushkin purposely makes lower density 1 GB mem modules incase you need some and this one doesn't work.

-S

[Chock]

In my experience, even what are effectively identically specced-sticks of RAM from different manufacturers can sometimes not work with one another, and the only way I've ever found to be certain RAM sticks would run okay with one another is to buy them all the same make, preferably from the same batch at the same time. This is a bummer, but it's been my experience.

One other thing to be aware of is that if you use a 1 gig stick with a .5 gig stick, make sure you put the 1 gig stick in the slot nearest the CPU. As mad as this sounds, the shorter distance between the biggest stick of RAM and the CPU will make it work slightly more efficiently, as you'll have more data having less distance to travel.

:D Chock

[AVGWarhawk]

OK, I cracked open the case and I have PC3200 and a PC400:o :o :o . Both 512mb:shifty:

[SUBMAN1]

OK, I cracked open the case and I have PC3200 and a PC400:o :o :o . Both 512mb:shifty:
That is both the same. DDR 400 is PC3200. Told you that you had a 200 MHz FSB. Do I get a cookie now? :p

-S

[AVGWarhawk]

So then, is there any gain by placing a 1 gig along side one of the 512mb sticks? Yes, cookie now.

[AVGWarhawk]

I want my cookie back. I got into the bios and it says I have pc2700 yet my sticks have the stickers that say pc3200. What the heck is up with that????????:doh:

[Wxman]

Oh so now the picuture comes out: you have PC3200 RAM stickers

Cookie?

[Wxman]

I pray to God that you're not pulling things off/inserting onto mobo while the PSU is plugged into mains.

I pray to God that is not true.

[Wxman]

Tell us what mobo you have? Then cookie?

[AVGWarhawk]

I pray to God that you're not pulling things off/inserting onto mobo while the PSU is plugged into mains.

I pray to God that is not true.

Why yes! I'm doing it all while smoking a cigarette next to a can of gas:roll: My mobo is some nvida board. I do not know what it is.

[Chock]

Download CPU-Z (link on previous post) that will tell you what your mobo is (plus lots more info)

:D Chock

[Wxman]

Dude, do NOT freak out. Leave that for the time when you go: "Oh. Well maybe I shouldn't have messed with that."

I'm just saying: don't be pulling stuff off of a powered mobo. NEVER do that.

NEVER plug anything into a powered mobo either.

NEVER touch anything on the mobo unless you've grounded yourself by touching the PC chassis (while the PSU is plugged in) first.

Once you unplug the mobo from mains by disconnecting the PSU from mains, and you've yanked items off of said mobo, well, then, plugging PSU into mains will not be just a bad idea, it'll probably blow everything you know.

Once you pull mains from PSU plugged into mobo, you're obligated to not come into contact with anything else, or hope that by touching your finger to running water and then walking back to the mobo test area is good enough.

Listen, ESD is pretty remote of a possibility and all those ESD wrist-straps that you see that you can buy are a scam.

Listen: do not unplug anything from a plugged-in mobo. Do not un-plug anything from a plug-in mobo.

Always touch the chassis of a plugged-in PC prior to touching anything inside the PC. If you can't figure out if you're neutral: just touch the plate on the back of the box (near to where the PC is plugged in to from the wall).

That is one of the biggest things you could ever know.

[JSLTIGER]

I was actually just going to suggest that...CPU-Z will tell you everything you need to know regarding dual channel and what speed your RAM is running at...just be aware that if you have mixed populations (i.e. 1 512MB stick of PC2700 (aka DDR333) and 1 512MB of PC3200 (aka DDR400)), the two sticks will show as 1GB of RAM, but will run at the slower RAM's speed (PC2700).

Dude, do NOT freak out. Leave that for the time when you go: "Oh. Well maybe I shouldn't have messed with that."

I know those moments...I hate those moments...I just had a bunch building my new rig...

[Wxman]

My Mom asked me:

Suppose you were going to build another machine. NOTHING's connected to the PSU, how do you ground yourself.

I answered:

You touch the chassis of some other machine that is plugged into mains.

Mom's response:

You can do that?

[AVGWarhawk]

Download CPU-Z (link on previous post) that will tell you what your mobo is (plus lots more info)

:D Chock

I loaded this program. It shows PC3200(200 mhz) for each slot that has the memory stick. Mobo is a AU31 made by First International Computer. Nvidia chipset nforce2. Clueless to what this all means. Bus speed is 200 mhz rated FSB 400 mhz.

[JSLTIGER]

It means that you're already running at full speed with 400 MHz RAM...on the first page, there sould be something that reads HT Link. That is the FSB it should be something like 1000MHz.

[AVGWarhawk]

It means that you're already running at full speed with 400 MHz RAM...on the first page, there sould be something that reads HT Link. That is the FSB it should be something like 1000MHz.


I do not see a HT link on the first page.

[NefariousKoel]

Also..

If you have a 1GB stick and a 512MB stick in a dual system.. I'm pretty sure you'll still be using virtual memory (ugh) when the weakest link in the chain has hit it's limits (512) on it's part of the workload.

[AVGWarhawk]

Also..

If you have a 1GB stick and a 512MB stick in a dual system.. I'm pretty sure you'll still be using virtual memory (ugh) when the weakest link in the chain has hit it's limits (512) on it's part of the workload.


I added a 1 gig and left in the 512 stick as well. I show 1.5 RAM. The game is much improved with speed! I also downloaded a program that show how much memory is available and it is around 1000+ MB free to use. Definite marked improvement over just 1 gig.

[SUBMAN1]

Also..

If you have a 1GB stick and a 512MB stick in a dual system.. I'm pretty sure you'll still be using virtual memory (ugh) when the weakest link in the chain has hit it's limits (512) on it's part of the workload.

I added a 1 gig and left in the 512 stick as well. I show 1.5 RAM. The game is much improved with speed! I also downloaded a program that show how much memory is available and it is around 1000+ MB free to use. Definite marked improvement over just 1 gig.

Which means I'm keeping my cookie! :p

-S

[AVGWarhawk]

Also..

If you have a 1GB stick and a 512MB stick in a dual system.. I'm pretty sure you'll still be using virtual memory (ugh) when the weakest link in the chain has hit it's limits (512) on it's part of the workload.

I added a 1 gig and left in the 512 stick as well. I show 1.5 RAM. The game is much improved with speed! I also downloaded a program that show how much memory is available and it is around 1000+ MB free to use. Definite marked improvement over just 1 gig.

Which means I'm keeping my cookie! :p

-S

Darn....chocolate chip or oatmeal?:roll: