magnetic?!

[kv29]

Whats going on with contact influence torpedos? All of them pass beneath the keel without detonating. Yes, I´ve tried multiple depth setting, and I follow them with the external cam. I saw many of them pass as near as 2 feets and nothing happens!

Is this a bug?

[Snuffy]

Only works on metal targets. :D

You won't blow a Junk outta the water with any torp.

[ReallyDedPoet]

There was some stuff on torpedoes here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115753&highlight=contact+influence+torpedos

Might be something in there:yep:

RDP

[kv29]

I did use the search, but apparently I missed that post, thanks for the link :up:

Im off to make some more tests.

[ReallyDedPoet]

It may even be an in game feature :o

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=551446&postcount=7

RDP

[Powerthighs]

See this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=558332&postcount=42

He doesn't say what year it is, but it seems to indicate that magentic exploders don't work at all. Specifically, it seems magnetic exploders explode at the same depth as contact exploders, and not any deeper, which means they just plain don't work.

[Target]

I've had them work. I think its the TDC that has trouble converting some drafts from Metric to imperial units. Mogami (sank three with magnetic detonators) Imperial, same game, small passenger carrier metric (magnetic worked after setting the detonators to the metric depth.).

[zylark]

I'm no expert in the field, but as far as I've understood the mk14 torps magnetic detonators was so flawed that more often than not they were actually disabled by the submarine crew.

A contact hit is way better than a premature detonation, or even worse, no detonation when at (or rather, under the) target :)

Whether this is a bug or feature I do not know. In my career, I'm in early '44 and the magnetic detonators should be more reliable. I have at least experienced far fewer premature detonations now at this advanced stage of the war than I did in the early parts (read '42 to mid '43). To the point that I actually think the mk14 is quite reliable and my fish of choice.

I've not tried under the keel shots though at this stage. I got so miffed at all the malfunctions in the early war years, that I got used to going for contact only. I will try it out though on my next patrol.

I loved under the keel shots in SH3. One fish was usually enough on most targets. With contact I need to expend at least two fishes on any given target of medium or greater size. A fish saved, is another 5k-10k tonnage sunk just waiting to happen :D

[switch.dota]

Mag detonator works all right. Any torpedo properly set to detonate magnetically that passes less than a torpedo's diameter from any ship's keel will go boom.

However I've seen some torpedo tests that suggest visuals might not be extremely accurate, so indeed the mag exploder might not be workign at all.

[SteamWake]

Just imagine how frustrated the skippers were in real life :know:

[ReallyDedPoet]

Just imagine how frustrated the skippers were in real life :know:



Exactly:up:

RDP

[wetwarev7]

Mag detonator works all right. Any torpedo properly set to detonate magnetically that passes less than a torpedo's diameter from any ship's keel will go boom.

However I've seen some torpedo tests that suggest visuals might not be extremely accurate, so indeed the mag exploder might not be workign at all.

Less than a torpedoe's diameter? That doesn't leave much room for mistakes does it?

[kv29]

Mag detonator works all right. Any torpedo properly set to detonate magnetically that passes less than a torpedo's diameter from any ship's keel will go boom.

However I've seen some torpedo tests that suggest visuals might not be extremely accurate, so indeed the mag exploder might not be workign at all.

Less than a torpedoe's diameter? That doesn't leave much room for mistakes does it?

a margin of 2 meters is not bad

[Sailor Steve]

Just imagine how frustrated the skippers were in real life :know:



Exactly:up:

RDP
We can duplicate their frustration, and add another level of realism. Every time someone posts that the torpedoes aren't working properly, someone reply "You're just making excuses for bad shooting!"

Well, that's what happened to them.:dead:

[wetwarev7]

Mag detonator works all right. Any torpedo properly set to detonate magnetically that passes less than a torpedo's diameter from any ship's keel will go boom.

However I've seen some torpedo tests that suggest visuals might not be extremely accurate, so indeed the mag exploder might not be workign at all.

Less than a torpedoe's diameter? That doesn't leave much room for mistakes does it?

a margin of 2 meters is not bad

Torpedoes have a diameter of 2 meters? :o That can't be right...:hmm:

[kv29]

uuupss, I meant a 2 meters radius would not be bad. What was the magnetic detection radius? In real life I mean.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm not sure about the actual sensitivity radius, but that's one of the problems with any such device: if it's not sensitive enough you get non-detonations; if it's too sensitive you get way too many pre-dets.

[WernerSobe]

just use contact detonators and forget the magnetic ones. They work sometimes but at most they dont. Even when they work they are not modeled correctly. They are not doing much more damage as they should. Ive been reading that real magnetic torpedoes are best set 5-7 meters below the keel and not just 2 or 3 feets.

[SteamWake]

What confuses me is that I see two settings

1.) Contact

2.) Contact/Influence

I almost always use setting no 2 with good results. In other words I dont bother with changing it. If it impacts it detonates.

Ive even pulled off a couple of 'beneath the keel' detonations.

Im very confused about all this discussion.

[switch.dota]

I almost always use setting no 2 with good results. In other words I dont bother with changing it. If it impacts it detonates.

Ive even pulled off a couple of 'beneath the keel' detonations.

Im very confused about all this discussion.
Same here. All the threads on this issue that I found were just as confusing.

[kv29]

:o what a mess:

http://diodon349.com/Torpedoman/Torpedoes_USN/mark_14_3A_torpedo_Mk_6_exploder.htm

[nomad_delta]

just use contact detonators and forget the magnetic ones. They work sometimes but at most they dont. Even when they work they are not modeled correctly. They are not doing much more damage as they should. Ive been reading that real magnetic torpedoes are best set 5-7 meters below the keel and not just 2 or 3 feets.

The in-game testing I've done (someone linked my previous thread where I posted my testing results) indicates that magnetic detonators are not working at all. In my testing I systematically fired volleys of torpedos at a known target (Mogami Cruiser in the training mission) incrementing the depth setting downward 1 foot at a time to determine the maximum depth the torpedos would detonate.

I found that a volley of magnetic torpedos set to run just 1 foot below the depth at which a volley of contact torpedos scored 4/4 hits would consistently miss, every single time.

I'm planning on doing a lot more testing of all of this once patch 1.3 is out, but for now I think it's safe to say that the magnetic influence torpedos don't work as intended. I recommend using 'contact' settings and sparing yourself the premature detonations, since there's nothing to be gained by using magnetic at the moment.

nomad_delta

[kv29]

nomad, have you tried other models than mark14?

Btw, is it possible to choose other torpedos in the mission editor??

[nomad_delta]

nomad, have you tried other models than mark14?

Btw, is it possible to choose other torpedos in the mission editor??

Not yet, but that's a good idea, since I've heard there was some concern about the game possibly ignoring the SIM values for Mark10 torpedos and treating them like Mark14's. I'll put that on my list for my next round of post-1.3 torpedo testing.

Not sure about selecting torpedos in the mission editor since I was only interested in Mark14 torpedos at the time.

nomad_delta

[kv29]

Coming back...
Tried mk10, 14, 18 & 23 at a large ferighter. They ALL passed right beneath the keel (almost touching it) without detonating. :damn: In fact one of them actually touched the hull, and nothing..... something is terribly wrong with the drafts....

[PepsiCan]

There might be a few issues in the game that confuse things further:

- Some of the ships in stock SH4 have the wrong measures, including an incorrect draft
- Time plays a part. In real life, all Mk14 issues were fixed by 1944. Testing before that date probably causes the game to simulate the real life bugs with the contact detonator and the depth measurement device in the torpedo (up to okt 1942 Mk14s ran upto 15 ft too deep because of a calibration issue)
- There is a claim (which triggered a lot of testing) that the switch in SH4 is actually reversed. So you think you select "Contact Influence", but the game setting is actually "Contact".

So, any testing needs to be conducted in 1944, with ship measures adjusted (or selected a ship that is unaffected). I'm not saying that that wasn't done up to now. I am merely offering some advice to anyone who wants to test this further.

[kv29]

tested all the above on late 44, both contact & incluence only. Ships measures corrected by a mod.
Even tweaked the torpedo proximity with mini-tweaker. Default was 2 (feet, meters, or what?) so modded it to 10, 25 and even 50. No good.

I tracked all torpedos with the external cam. Depth is ok.
Influence is not implemented in any way. The best and only way to simulate a keel shot (on contact) is setting the depth - 2 feets acording to the draft value, but before 43´ with all the torpedo depth problems is risky.
I give up.

[nomad_delta]

tested all the above on late 44, both contact & incluence only. Ships measures corrected by a mod.
Even tweaked the torpedo proximity with mini-tweaker. Default was 2 (feet, meters, or what?) so modded it to 10, 25 and even 50. No good.

I tracked all torpedos with the external cam. Depth is ok.
Influence is not implemented in any way. The best and only way to simulate a keel shot (on contact) is setting the depth - 2 feets acording to the draft value, but before 43´ with all the torpedo depth problems is risky.
I give up.

Oy. That's disconcerting that modifying the torpedo proximity didn't have any effect on the influence setting. I was kinda hoping we might be able to fix the magnetics with a mod like that.

Thanks for the attempt, though, 'cause now we know a little more than we did before.

I sure hope the devs are doing something to address this in 1.3 -- it really bugs me that an entire portion of the game (torpedo depth) is basically missing because none of the settings work properly and most of the data is wrong. What's worse is it sounds like we can't even fix this with mods since the game is ignoring the relevant values in the torpedo SIM files.

nomad_delta

[Phantom Mark]

After reading this post I did some testing on this topic.

I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.

:cry:

[SteamWake]

After reading this post I did some testing on this topic.

I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.

:cry:

Again... I have personally succsessfully used magnetic detonations. Then again Ive had some just keep on going.

Maybe I got lucky.

[kv29]

After reading this post I did some testing on this topic.

I have tried Mk23's and Mk14's on both contact and magnetic, had pretty much the same results already posted here, on both settings I had torps litraly skimming the bottom of the hull of a CV, all passed directly underneath with no explosion no matter what the settings were. The only time I could score a hit was by running the depth slightly more shallow so it actually strikes the hull.

:cry:

Again... I have personally succsessfully used magnetic detonations. Then again Ive had some just keep on going.

Maybe I got lucky.

I did the same test 3 times. Fired around 50 torpedos, none of them went off.

[nomad_delta]

My guess is that the magnetic exploders don't work, but there are bugs with the rendering that occasionally makes a *contact* hit look like it was passing under the ship. Invisible hit-boxes extending below the ships or something.

nomad_delta

[SteamWake]

Well now yall have jinxed me.

I tried a salvo of 3 under the keel shots last night on a huge eruo liner just to see.

Wasted three torps.

[FIREWALL]

I seem to remember it being posted awhile back that the settings on the tdc for that were a$$ backwards.

[SteamWake]

I seem to remember it being posted awhile back that the settings on the tdc for that were a$$ backwards.

Now that you mention that I seem to remember that too.

[kv29]

half of those 50 torpedos were set both contact and influence. I said it before.

[SteamWake]

half of those 50 torpedos were set both contact and influence. I said it before.

No what he means is "Contact/Influence" is actually "contact" and "Contact" is actually "Contact/Infuluence" .. back assward.

I distinctly remember this being discussed prior to 1.2.

[kv29]

half of those 50 torpedos were set both contact and influence. I said it before.

No what he means is "Contact/Influence" is actually "contact" and "Contact" is actually "Contact/Infuluence" .. back assward.

I distinctly remember this being discussed prior to 1.2.

I got it right, but perhaps I explained myself wrong.
I fired half of those 50 set to contact only, and the other half set to influence. The influence thing does not work, othewise they should go off even without touching the hull, but a couple of feets away when fired shallow.

[Phantom Mark]

whichever way you seem to have that "wonderful" switch it doesnt seem to matter a stuff, if you aint got the torp running into the hull ( bar rendering errors it seems ) then it aint going off, I too have had a few "aparant" influence hits where the torp appeared to just skim underneath something then go off, but you could argue its just she ship rising and falling at precicely the right moment in the waves to cause an explosion directly underneath it ?????

[XanderF]

I wonder if the "incorrect keel depths" on some ships weren't an aborted attempt by the devs to fix this just-before-release?

IE., an "invisible hit box" that will let the torpedo "go off under the hull". ALL the time, of course, regardless of TDC setting, but I think we know already how much work the devs put into manual targetting (so...how well does that stopwatch work for you? :roll: )

[kv29]

the stopwatch works perfectly. But some people thinks that it should "magically" show the target speed.

Do the math by hand (as true skippers did) and you will find the target speed.

[Powerthighs]

Do the math by hand (as true skippers did) and you will find the target speed

Skippers didn't do the math. Members of the fire-control party did.

[nomad_delta]

@kv29: ha ha, you're a "Navy Dude" now. :p

nomad_delta

[kv29]

@kv29: ha ha, you're a "Navy Dude" now. :p

nomad_delta

yeah, and I don´t like my avatar. looks somehow.... queer.... too much "village people" ......... in the naaaaavyyyyy

[kv29]

Stieve, what have you done to my avatar?????? :rotfl:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/hangover.jpg

[ReallyDedPoet]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/ranks/hangover.jpg

This one gets me every time :yep:

RDP

[McBeck]

Whats going on with contact influence torpedos? All of them pass beneath the keel without detonating. Yes, I´ve tried multiple depth setting, and I follow them with the external cam. I saw many of them pass as near as 2 feets and nothing happens!

Is this a bug?Dont cercumvent the filters.
Iv changed your Thread title

[Horst Mikaelis]

I read through O'Kane's (Tang) patrol reports for mid-1944 and I noticed that he states that he fired the torpedoes at a depth setting between 10 and 15 feet, depending on the ship, and using the "Contact" detonator. And this was in 1944 after the torpedo problems were supposedly fixed. Apparently he still did not trust them. And O'Kane was what? Number one or number two?

I keep using ten feet with the contact exploder with success. After the 1.3 patch I'll try 'em again, but for now....

Horst.

[OrlandoM3]

Mag. and Inf. were terrible in the early years. Just aim for the bottom 2/3rds on the ship and change to contact.

[Nelarius]

Those Mark 14 torpedoes are really tricky. :88) I attacked a tanker in a convoy. In my first salvo, 3 detonated prematurely (I had selected contact) and the last one was a dud.

I turned around and fired my aft tubes: the first torp detonated right undernearth another merchant that had gotten in the way. I'm not sure if it detonated because of magnetic influence (I had selected contact) or if it just HAPPENED to prematurely detonate right underneath the merchant. :D Anyway, it broke the merchant's back. Nice run of luck.:arrgh!: I later managed to sink the tanker, but spent all of the rest of my torps in the process.