Question about hydrophone stuff

[wetwarev7]

Why is it that subs cannot use the hydrophone while surfaced? :hmm:

Surface ships can. Why not subs? Is this just a function of SH4? I know in SH2, you could use the hydrophones while surfaced, but not in SH3 or SH4.

It looks like the hydrophones are mounted on the top and bottom of the sub, so I would assume that it could be used surfaced.

Does anyone know whether this is possible in real life, and if not, why not?

[SteamWake]

Why is it that subs cannot use the hydrophone while surfaced? :hmm:

Surface ships can. Why not subs? Is this just a function of SH4? I know in SH2, you could use the hydrophones while surfaced, but not in SH3 or SH4.

It looks like the hydrophones are mounted on the top and bottom of the sub, so I would assume that it could be used surfaced.

Does anyone know whether this is possible in real life, and if not, why not?

To put it in a nutshell ... noise. All the valid contacts get covered up by background noise.

The phones are mounted on the bottom of the sub (the little balls you see dangling from the bottom).

When the boat is surfaced and moving there is a lot of turbulance, wake, and bubbles along with waves splashing and fish farting.

But realistically we 'should' be able to use the hydrophones while surfaced but its not modeled that way.

That doesent bother me as much as picking up Sampans and rubber boats on passive sonar. Now that just doesent make sense.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm sure that submarine hydrophones and active sonar work just fine on the surface, when the target is a submerged submarine. Surface ships' listening devices may work on the surface, but they don't pick up other surface ships.

[wetwarev7]

To put it in a nutshell ... noise. All the valid contacts get covered up by background noise.

The phones are mounted on the bottom of the sub (the little balls you see dangling from the bottom).

When the boat is surfaced and moving there is a lot of turbulance, wake, and bubbles along with waves splashing and fish farting.

But realistically we 'should' be able to use the hydrophones while surfaced but its not modeled that way.

That doesent bother me as much as picking up Sampans and rubber boats on passive sonar. Now that just doesent make sense.

Then how are surface ships able to hear anything through the hydrophones? Did it have anything to do with hull depth?

[wetwarev7]

I'm sure that submarine hydrophones and active sonar work just fine on the surface, when the target is a submerged submarine. Surface ships' listening devices may work on the surface, but they don't pick up other surface ships.

Hrm...why is this? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand why sound from a surfaced ship would be harder to hear than a submerged sub. If anything, I would think it would be just the opposite.

I need details people! details! :rotfl:

[SteamWake]

Look at it this way.

Ships are on top looking down. They cant hear to the sides. Ships could not hear submarines when they are surfaced. Indeed this was a big motivator for surface attack.

Subs are below looking up. Once they are on the surface well there is no more 'up'.

(Substitute the word listen for looking ;)

[Typhaon]

Well first of all, most destroyers have a higher draft than subs, so their hydrophones are deeper under water... and second: destroyers don't try to locate other surface vessels... for that you have to hear almost through the waves... the higher the waves, the worse the sonar for surface vessels... they use their hydrophones to track subs and their phones point downwards... so they are not disturbed by waves... but this is only when the sea is calm... in a heavy storm with high waves destroyers have problems with tracking subs... this is also featured in SHIV.

[Sailor Steve]

Then how are surface ships able to hear anything through the hydrophones? Did it have anything to do with hull depth?
The water around the hull of a moving ship is always disturbed. My bunk on the destroyer I served on was right at the waterline. At night I could hear the water rushing by right through the hull. The sonar and hydrophones are 'blinded' by that disturbance. They can only hear things below the disturbed area.

[wetwarev7]

It all makes sense now. Thanks guys! :up:

[switch.dota]

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

[SteamWake]

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?

I always thought that was the radar.

[Bando]

I don't have radar installed, but the "T" is on my boat.
I don't know either.......

[LukeFF]

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?
I always thought that was the radar.

Nope, it's another listening device that was operated by a single user in the bow torpedo room.

[wetwarev7]

I think the radar antantea is mounted on top of the conning tower, isn't it?

[SteamWake]

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?
I always thought that was the radar.

Nope, it's another listening device that was operated by a single user in the bow torpedo room.

Well the silly thing continues to rotate even while surfaced (shrug).

[mookiemookie]

Question: what is that T-shaped thing installed just ahead of the conning tower, either on the port or starboard side of the sub's deck? Doesn't that have to do with hydrophones?
I always thought that was the radar.
Nope, it's another listening device that was operated by a single user in the bow torpedo room.
The T-shaped device is a hydrophone head, and I don't believe the operator was in the torpedo room.

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

[LukeFF]

The T-shaped device is a hydrophone head and it wasn't in the bow torpedo room.
:roll:

I never said it was in the bow torpedo room. I said it was operated by a single person in the torpedo room, because that's where the device's control unit was located.

[mookiemookie]

The T-shaped device is a hydrophone head and it wasn't in the bow torpedo room.
:roll:

I never said it was in the bow torpedo room. I said it was operated by a single person in the torpedo room, because that's where the device's control unit was located.
You're right, I'm wrong. I started doubting my statement a bit and that's why I edited it.

After a bit more looking around, here's a nice picture of the equipment you mentioned. Though it looks like they were controls for the retractable heads on the bottom?

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap5.htm

[SteamWake]

The T-shaped device is a hydrophone head and it wasn't in the bow torpedo room.
:roll:

I never said it was in the bow torpedo room. I said it was operated by a single person in the torpedo room, because that's where the device's control unit was located.
You're right, I'm wrong. I started doubting my statement a bit and that's why I edited it.

After a bit more looking around, here's a nice picture of the equipment you mentioned. Though it looks like they were controls for the retractable heads on the bottom?

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap5.htm

Somewhere around here Ive seen cutaway drawings identifying diferent components of the subs. I dont belive the dangle balls were retractable. (though they may have suffered from shrinkage :p )

[mookiemookie]

The T-shaped device is a hydrophone head and it wasn't in the bow torpedo room.
:roll:

I never said it was in the bow torpedo room. I said it was operated by a single person in the torpedo room, because that's where the device's control unit was located.
You're right, I'm wrong. I started doubting my statement a bit and that's why I edited it.

After a bit more looking around, here's a nice picture of the equipment you mentioned. Though it looks like they were controls for the retractable heads on the bottom?

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap5.htm
Somewhere around here Ive seen cutaway drawings identifying diferent components of the subs. I dont belive the dangle balls were retractable. (though they may have suffered from shrinkage :p )

Here (http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm) it says that "The Two Hydrophones (Projectors) are mounted at the bottom of shafts, which extend through the hull under the forward torpedo room. Lowering these shafts puts the two projectors below the keel."

That's where I got the idea that they were retractable...

[switch.dota]

Here (http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm) it says that "The Two Hydrophones (Projectors) are mounted at the bottom of shafts, which extend through the hull under the forward torpedo room. Lowering these shafts puts the two projectors below the keel."
As far as I know the T shape antennae I was talking about earlier is the Hydrophone head and the two (retractable on real subs) balls below the keel were the ultrasonic projectors for active sonar.

[wetwarev7]

As far as I know the T shape antennae I was talking about earlier is the Hydrophone head and the two (retractable on real subs) balls below the keel were the ultrasonic projectors for active sonar.

That would make sense, as you would want the hydrophone head on top to better hear ships above you. But I would then think the ping emmiters would be on top as well, unless they were strong enough to blow out the hydrophone if they were too close???

[switch.dota]

But I would then think the ping emmiters would be on top as well, unless they were strong enough to blow out the hydrophone if they were too close???
I honestly don't know about that, but the fact is they were installed below the keel and they were retractable.