Yamato Sweetspot?

[CptWilkins]

I've found a taskforce outside Manilla that contains 2 Ise-class Battleships, and One Yamato. No points for guessing what I'm aiming at.

My question is: Where is the best spot to aim for an a Yamato. I know it has Heavy armour all over, but I generally have 4 Torps to cripple it. I can't chase, because I'm not fast enough submerged, and because of the size of the flotilla it sails with, I can't surface without being blown back to Melbourne.

Ideally, I'd like to know where the Magazine is kept, but crippling the engines would be handy as well, as it would at least buy me some time.

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In a somewhat related subject, if you let the sub get an auto-solution (I'm not a pro, I only have the realism at about 30%), where does it usually hit, middle or back? I'm curious because it will help me better use the spread ability.



Thanks for the assistance fellas.
-s.

[PepsiCan]

My experience is that the auto targeting aims for midship. But you can still adjust the direction of torpedo by using the dail to set up a spread. So, if you fire three torps and set the dial for the first to 0, for the second to -1 and the third to +1 you will hit the ship at various spots. At the same time, you can assume the ship to start doing an emergency turn as soon as the torpedos are spotted.

[CaptainHaplo]

Welcome aboard! As for autotargetting - the torp is going to hit wherever the scope it pointed at when you fire. Most who use autotargetting will "Lock" the target - which the game does midships. If you want to hit specific points while autotargetting - just dont lock the target. Open your outer door individually, no spread angle - and point your scope at whatever point of impact you want. Fire when the point is in the crosshairs, and you will get your hits as desired.

Regarding "sweet" spots - ammo is generally held below turrets - and the engine room is under the stacks - so those are good spots to aim for either hitting a bunker or flooding and slowing a target. On a target like a heavily armored warship - one standard torp at each isnt enough to do the job. *Note - torps in game ARE underpowered*

With 4 torps available - I would try something like 2 under the stack to slow her, then set up for another 2 under a turret.

[Steel_Tomb]

Yeah torps are underpowered I put 6 fish into a yamato BB once and it still refused to sink, only went down on the 7th fish...crazy!

[StandingCow]

Also, and correct me if I am wrong, I am certainly no naval expert... there was extra armor around the waterline, so you would want your torp to explode right under the ship...?

[CptWilkins]

Thanks for the welcome fellas, I appreciate it.

I ended up sinking the Yamato by leading the flotilla, then just sitting tight until it went past me. I put 4 into her sides, then she turned to face me, so I shot one tight into her nose.

The combination of the water being forced into her hull, and hitting what is most likely one of the least armoured spots on the ship. In the words of Borat, "Great Success!"

Thanks for the info regarding where the torps hit, it's much appreciated.



I'm probably not going to post here a whole lot, since most of the topics i'm interested in are already discussed, and thus my input is unrequired.

[AkbarGulag]

The Yamato is a slick boat... I found aiming toward the back was almost useless and the angle the keel takes there makes setting depth tricky. I usually aim in the middle of the boat, grouped around the super structure area.... more likely to hit stuff that goes bang there.... try and get as low as you can, if you get one directly underneath your a legend. If your using metric, set for between 12-13 metres depth. I know the book says less, but the book is on the piss :hmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Yamato and Musashi not only had belt armor, which really didn't defend against torpedoes at all, but had extensive TDS (torpedo defense systems). Both ships took a lot more than 4 torpedoes to sink, plus a lot of bombs.

[TheSatyr]

I do find it amusing that people seem to think they should be able to sink a Yamato with 6 or less torps,considering the Yamato took over a dozen torp hits and the Mushashi took around 20,not to mention all the near misses by bombs which also did underwater damage. They made ALL capitol ships too damn easy to sink though.

Sadly,I consider SH4 to be the most unrealistic of the series. Having decoys in the game,which the US Navy NEVER had during WW2. Lancaster bombers which don't belong in the game. Easy to kill capitol ships. Too many task forces and convoys running around.

SH4 just comes accross as being poorly researched unfortunately.

[CaptainHaplo]

Sorry but I have to disagree - while yes SH4 does have some historical inaccuracies - 6 torps to take down a Yamato isnt really unrealistic. Take the sinking of the Shinano for instance - took what - 3 torps - against the largest carrier japan ever built?

Yes - Major warships in battle took ALOT more hits to sink - but thats because they were EXPECTING conflict. Ships, even in wartime, usually maintain condition 3 steaming - stuff like watertight doors arent closed, etc. A submarine putting 4 torps into any vessel - without compartment integrity - is likely to go down. The difference is whether a surface vessel has time to "dog the hatches" and report all compartments "secure" - just like a sub "rigged for depth charge". Any sub taking a shot at a major warship is really doing so from a suprise position. If your on a ship expecting to get shot at - your going to have all the watertight bulkheads locked down, etc. But not when your steaming in a TF headed TO a conflict that could be days away. Takes to long for the steward to get the captain's plate to him if he has to open and then dog every hatch behind him.

Now - after the first attack - yes every ship in the convoy should be more difficult to take down. But if your first shots are quick - 4 to 6 torps (especially spaced along one side or under the keel) are gonna be enough to send just about anything to Davy Jones locker.

If you didnt like the Shinano example - look at Pearl Harbor. Many of our major vessels capsized or sank due to only a few torp hits - and that was once the battle was ongoing. No telling really if all the watertight doors got closed on some of those ships, but it just demonstrates how vulnerable a surface boat is to a torp if its compartments are not watertight from each other.

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry but I have to disagree - while yes SH4 does have some historical inaccuracies - 6 torps to take down a Yamato isnt really unrealistic. Take the sinking of the Shinano for instance - took what - 3 torps - against the largest carrier japan ever built?
If you read Joe Enright's bood Shinano, he states that that ship was running in a very light condition and the Torpedo Defense System belts were completly out of the water, meaning the ship was hit right where it had no protection at all. They also preceded to try to run away at full speed, forcing water into the damaged areas which in turn caused the damage to spread.

The US battleships at Pearl Harbor were indeed in an open condition, primarily because they were at peace and totally unprepared. Capital warships at sea should always be locked up and ready. I think it's reasonable to expect to have to use 12 torpedoes or more on something the size of Yamato.

[SteamWake]

The Yamato was struck with no less than a dozen M14's and around 11 1,000lb bombs before she subcommed.

Even then she just rolled on her side and floated for some time untill the fire reached the powder magazine.

The ship had many inherant 'flood resistant' compartments which while even laying on her side kept the ship afloat. It wasent untill the magazine lit off and literally split the ship in two did she sink.

Now with that being said I 'destroyed' a carrier the other night with a single torpedo ! I had fired two at it and was comming about to bring the stern tubes to bear when the first torpedo hit and she went up in a ball of fire !

[kikn79]

If you increase the hit points on the Yamato from the stock 800 (which IMHO is woefully below what it should be as all the battleships are @ 800.) to 2000, you'll find the Yamato MUCH more realistic in terms of torps/sink ratio. I increased all the HP of capital ships double or more what they are stock. BBs get 1500-1800 with the Yamato at 2000. It takes about 12 torpedoes to sink her now which I find more to my taste. Hit her with only 2 or 3 and she'll shrug it off as if it was a couple seagulls hitting her hull.

I find that I'm forced to aim directly at the stern with torps set for ~30ft (1944 so the depth problem is mostly fixed). I try to take out a couple of her props or her rudder so she slows down and I can take my time in sending her to meet Mr. Jones.

I also found that if I concentrate my torpedo fire towards the stern (Aft turrent and back) the water gets up over her deck and she will succumb to the ocean depths a little quicker....

Chuck

[SteamWake]

I try to take out a couple of her props or her rudder so she slows down and I can take my time in sending her to meet Mr. Jones.

On a side note what you say here is exactly how the Bismark met her demise. A 'lucky' torpedo strike lodged the rudder in hard to port making her a sitting duck for the other dreadnaughts which closed quickly and finished her off.

All the previous torpedoes had done minor damage small leaks and a few 'dents'.

[Sailor Steve]

Though on the other hand one penetrating shell from Prince Of Wales damaged one of her fuel tanks and put her down by the bow.

I just got a shock. I was looking through Conway's All The World's Fighting Ships 1922-1947, and found that HMS Nelson was hit by one 18" aerial torpedo that damaged the torpedo flat and let in 3750 tons of water!

[zylark]

Is it just me that have never encountered the Yamato?

I find the BBs I actually have sunk to be hard as nails. I need at least 5 torps in an even spread to take one down. From stern to aft in one strike.

As opposed to CVs that happily go into a ball of flame after 1-3 torps. Hmmm. Methinks some damage models need to be refined. Thus far the toughest object I've ever "had" to sink was a large tanker that absolutely refused to go down with grace. Well, upto a point, but details really.

[PepsiCan]

Yeah torps are underpowered I put 6 fish into a yamato BB once and it still refused to sink, only went down on the 7th fish...crazy!

They are not underpowered. It took the US Navy way more than 7 torpedoes to sink the Yamato. Don't forget you're talking about the biggest warship in the world at that time. Even the Iowa class did not come close to the tonnage of the Yamato. And most of that tonnage was made up of its big, thick armour belt.

Secondly, what year did you sink her in? At the start of the war, torpedoes used TNT, not the more powerful torpex.

7 torpedoes sounds to me like you managed to sink it efficiently. :up:

[PepsiCan]

Sadly,I consider SH4 to be the most unrealistic of the series. Having decoys in the game,which the US Navy NEVER had during WW2. Lancaster bombers which don't belong in the game. Easy to kill capitol ships. Too many task forces and convoys running around.

SH4 just comes accross as being poorly researched unfortunately.

Nope, not poorly researched. Apparently, there were issues with copyrights. The manufacturers of the aircrafts didn't allow for the planes to be used in the game. Try a search to find the links.

The decoy thingy is however a leftover from SH3 I think.

[tater]

I'm certainly not one to defend the accuracy/research of SH4, which is lacking in so many ways, but the US subs did have countermeasures towards the end of the war,and they were used in combat (there's a patrol report from Barb where they use both swim-out decoy beacons, and bubblers.

Obviously such devices should only become available when they were actually available (late '44 or early '45?).

tater

[SteamWake]

Pffffttt....

The developers were under the gun to get a 'mostly' finished product on the shelves by the producers.

Now you want historical accuracy as well ?

[vatek]

I'm sure the devs wanted it to be historically accurate, but when you've got a publisher squeezing you to get the game out by "x" quarter to increase profits, the "polish" period of development is usually the first thing to get thrown out the window.

I think the best approach to SH4 would have been to release it with the SDK bundled in, or at least to have documented a lot of the CFG files better. The ship draft issues come to mind.

[bookworm_020]

Yeah torps are underpowered I put 6 fish into a yamato BB once and it still refused to sink, only went down on the 7th fish...crazy!
They are not underpowered. It took the US Navy way more than 7 torpedoes to sink the Yamato. Don't forget you're talking about the biggest warship in the world at that time. Even the Iowa class did not come close to the tonnage of the Yamato. And most of that tonnage was made up of its big, thick armour belt.

Secondly, what year did you sink her in? At the start of the war, torpedoes used TNT, not the more powerful torpex.

7 torpedoes sounds to me like you managed to sink it efficiently. :up:

Please remember that aircraft Torpedos were smaller than sub torpedoes (18' to 21'). Torpedos from the begining of the war had torpex warheads, this caused some of the depth problems due to torpex being heavier than TNT.

Going on with what salior steve said, the Shinano also hadn't being fitted out when she went to sea. Many of the watertight doors hadn't been fitted, not all bulkheads had been sealed where pipeing and wireing pass through. Pumps had not been installed as well.

It took very little damage to sink her, despite the best effots of the damage control crews.

[SteamWake]

Please remember that aircraft Torpedos were smaller than sub torpedoes (18' to 21'). Torpedos from the begining of the war had torpex warheads, this caused some of the depth problems due to torpex being heavier than TNT.

That and the fact they used 'dummy' warheads for testing :oops:

[tater]

The Mark 13 torpedos dropped by TBF/TBMs at Yamato had 600lb torpex warheads.

Very slightly lower than the Mk14's 643lbs.

tater

[TriskettheKid]

But if I remember correctly, the Yamato's armor did not extend all the way to her bow or her stern.

I find this to be the case in-game, too. I find it much easier to get her to keel over just by hitting her at her bow and stern. When she tilts but does not go down, I usually just send a single torp into her now exposed deck by a turret to finish her off.

I don't know how realistic THAT is, per se, but I know it works. You get enough flooding in any of the BBs in the game, and they will list to a side until it gets to a point that part of their deck is underwater (even if that part is no more than 2m under). Once that happens, it seems that there is no armor on the deck, making for easy pickings. If you can't get a lucky shot once it's at that point, just fire a few more at her deck at different points. It may not blow the ship up, but it WILL cause a list so bad that it goes under.

[tater]

^^^^ correct, that's why she's so beamy. The packed the machiney spaces is as little length as possible to minimize the armor.

[TheSatyr]

The odd thing is that even after all those Torp hits the Mushashi would have survived long enough to be beached if the Captain had slowed down a little. She had a torp hit right in the bow,and the flooding was made worse due to the Captain going too fast for a ship in that condition.( approx 20 torp hits and one on the stem...not a good thing) Not only did it cause unnecessary flooding,but the flooding from the bow weakened undamaged bulkheads and collapsed previously damaged ones. The Captain was almost as responsible for losing his ship as the American planes that bombed it were. Good thing he chose to go down with his ship,because I'm sure High Command would have been rather displeased with his decisions.

As for the Shinano,most of her water tight doors hadn't even been installed yet and the ones that were installed weren't sealed correctly yet. The Shinano put to sea in an incomplete state with a large shipyard contingent aboard and with an untrained damage control team and was just being moved from what was considered an unsafe shipyard,(Because of fear of allied bombing),to what the Japanese considered to be a safer shipyard for completion. While they were concerned about US Subs it was a fairly short trip and they thought she could make it without being detected.

Comparing the Shinano to the Yamato and Mushashi is frankly ridiculous. The Yamato and Musashi were veteran warships with well trained damage control teams,while the Shinano wasn't even a "finished product" yet and had an untrained and inexperienced crew aboard. Bottom line,the Shinano shouldn't have been sent out in the condition she was in. Even one torp might have been able to sink her,though it would have taken quite a while to flood enough to go down.

[Sailor Steve]

But if I remember correctly, the Yamato's armor did not extend all the way to her bow or her stern.
No modern (read "WW2") battleship had completely armored bows or sterns. It was called "all or nothing" armor, and the idea was that the ship could lose the bow or stern and suffer no serious consequenses. Yes, losing the propellers could be considered "serious", but in fact more than one ship, from cruisers right down to destroyers, survived losing the entire bow to a torpedo or a heavy storm.

[DirtyHarry3033]

As for autotargetting - the torp is going to hit wherever the scope it pointed at when you fire. Most who use autotargetting will "Lock" the target - which the game does midships. If you want to hit specific points while autotargetting - just dont lock the target. Open your outer door individually, no spread angle - and point your scope at whatever point of impact you want. Fire when the point is in the crosshairs, and you will get your hits as desired.
CaptainHaplo, are you sure about that???

Tried your tip tonight, locked up a Large Old Split, turned on TDC then unlocked and fired 2 Mk 14's at high speed from about 1900 yds. Both tubes opened before I fired.

1st torp I aimed at the stern hoping to take out a prop or rudder.

2nd torp aimed midships right under the funnel for an engine room hit.

Tracked the torps on the attack map, the 1st hit, well, dead amidships, not anywhere near the stern. 2nd, which was aimed amidships also hit amidships. In other words, was as if I'd fired with the lock turned on :huh:

If there's a trick to get that to work, what is it? Actually I was under impression that you couldn't send bearing only with the scope to aim for different parts of the target...

FWIW, yep I'm using auto-targetting, just never had any luck doing solutions manually :(

DH

[Yanaran]

If there's a trick to get that to work, what is it? Actually I was under impression that you couldn't send bearing only with the scope to aim for different parts of the target...

FWIW, yep I'm using auto-targetting, just never had any luck doing solutions manually :(

DH
Don't turn on the TDC when using auto-targetting.

[DirtyHarry3033]

Don't turn on the TDC when using auto-targetting.
Hmm. I'M STUPID!!!!! :damn::damn::damn:

Yep that makes sense, I guess if TDC is on, it's gonna track middle of target, right? No matter where you aim the scope. Was thinking, in my stupidity that you had to lock and turn on TDC to get the right ship targetted, then turn off the lock to aim for a spot...

It might have helped if you could move the scope while on the attack map plot, then I could see the torp track move (nor not move, if TDC was on) as scope bearing changed...

Thanks Yanaran, I'll give it a try! Would make my day if I could put the torp right where I wanted without messing with that spread cr*p ;)

DH

[GTHammer]

Tonight @ 9/8 Central on the History Channel: "Death of the Japanese Navy" Yamato vs. Taffy 3 on Dogfights. If anyone is interested...

[Sailor Steve]

Something else about the sinking of Shinano I was just reminded of: even though she only took four torpedoes, and a lot of the problem was bad damage control, she still took seven hours to sink. I'd call that a well-built ship.