The American Lefts silly victim complex

[August]

http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/71.php?id=271#

Here’s the real problem with American liberalism: there is no such thing, not really. What we call American liberalism is really a kind of genetic mutant, a Frankenstein’s monster of incongruous parts – a fat, affluent, overeducated New York/Washington head crudely screwed onto the withering corpse of the vanishing middle-American manufacturing class. These days the Roosevelt stratum of rich East Coasters are still liberals, but the industrial middle class that the New Deal helped create is almost all gone. In 1965, manufacturing jobs still made up 53 percent of the US economy; that number was down to nine percent in 2004, and no one has stepped up to talk to the 30 million working poor who struggle to get by on low-wage, part-time jobs.

[cobalt]

that was very intellectual... I feel a lot smarter now... Thank you so much. Glad i'm not a pinko commie liberal. right right

[Sea Demon]

LOL. Liberals love America like OJ loved Nicole. I gotta admit...that's just right on the mark. :)

[waste gate]

Thus, the people who are the public voice of American liberalism rarely have any real connection to the ordinary working people whose interests they putatively champion. They tend instead to be well-off, college-educated yuppies from California or the East Coast...

Look at the candidates for the nomination for president of the US. Everyone fits this definition. In fact all their quote, champions, unquote fit the definition. When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders?

[Tchocky]

Since when have any Presidential candidates had a "real connection to ordinary working people"?

Why is it bad for candidates to be college-educated....?

And it's fairly rich to accuse the Dems of this without thinking of the GOP. Honestly.

[waste gate]

Since when have any Presidential candidates had a "real connection to ordinary working people"?

Why is it bad for candidates to be college-educated....?

And it's fairly rich to accuse the Dems of this without thinking of the GOP. Honestly.

Nothing wrong with any of that. My issue is with the liberal 'champions' saying that they speak for and are one of the people when they are not .

I ask again; When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders? Honestly.

PS I don't know of anyone accusing the GOP of being anything other than be well-off, college-educated. Like you said nothing wrong with that.

[AntEater]

Great article, sadly true for most leftists even outside the USA.
And I say that despite considering myself part of the left wing
:)

[Letum]

The American left confuses me very much. It is VERY diffrent from the European leftas is the notion of the right wing in America.
It's prahaps the main reason I don't engage at all in Amrtical internal polotics.


(Please exscuse spelling)

[NefariousKoel]

Good points.

This increasing mindset has caused what were normally quite poor, yet working, Americans to emmigrate en masse from the Democratic party to the Republican party in the past few decades.

[bradclark1]

When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders?
To be a real lefty leader you have to be poor?:doh:

[The Avon Lady]

When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders?
To be a real lefty leader you have to be poor?:doh:
Dunno about that but I now know that they have to be hypocricracable. :88) :doh:

[August]

When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders? To be a real lefty leader you have to be poor?:doh:

No but telling working class people to do without air conditioners while owning a home that consumes enough electricity to power a small city is going to be seen as a tad hypocritical don'cha think?

[Takeda Shingen]

And so the downward spiral begins.

Read here, people: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=117082

Discuss the merits of liberalism as you wish, but keep it cool. My finger is on the lock button.

[The Avon Lady]

Discuss the merits of liberalism as you wish, but keep it cool.
We are talking about air conditioning. Can't ya read?!

:p
:p
:p

:roll:

[bradclark1]

When is the liberal left, progressive, movement going to awaken from their slumber and see the hypocricracy of their so called leaders?
To be a real lefty leader you have to be poor?:doh:
Dunno about that but I now know that they have to be hypocricracable. :88) :doh:
Well hell, thats politicians in general from the president down on both sides of the isle down to your local mayor.

[bradclark1]

No but telling working class people to do without air conditioners while owning a home that consumes enough electricity to power a small city is going to be seen as a tad hypocritical don'cha think?
I'm assuming you are talking about Gore. I've not heard him say that.

[The Avon Lady]

No but telling working class people to do without air conditioners while owning a home that consumes enough electricity to power a small city is going to be seen as a tad hypocritical don'cha think?
I'm assuming you are talking about Gore. I've not heard him say that.
No, no! August's point is do as Gore says, not as he does (http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367).

But if anyone insists anyway on doing as Gore does, do it right (http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/03/al_gores_inconv.html). :yep:

[Tchocky]

No but telling working class people to do without air conditioners while owning a home that consumes enough electricity to power a small city is going to be seen as a tad hypocritical don'cha think?

If Gore had done nothing else about global warming except this air conditioning request, you would have a point.

....but ....*reality*

[The Avon Lady]

....but ....*reality*
An inconvenient reality.... (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=58e0c50c-1631-46ca-8719-778c0973526e)

[Tchocky]

Hmm, I didn't know about that. An oceanographer disagreed, and Gore made an idiot out of himself. Fifteen years ago.

[August]

If Gore had done nothing else about global warming except this air conditioning request, you would have a point.

....but ....*reality*

You missed the point. This thread is about liberal hypocracy and Gore is but one example.

You want another? How about Cheryl Crow telling people to limit themselves to one piece of toilet paper to help save the environment while she tours around with a caravan of buses and uses more electricity in one concert than 50 familys will use in a year.

Now you may argue that she doesn't represent the democratic party or liberals but people like her, Gore and others are associated with them in the publics mind. Why is that? Because they have courted these people for years and now that is coming back to bite them in the butt.

Seriously. Read the article i linked in the op. It wasn't written by a conservative...

[Tchocky]

You missed the point. This thread is about liberal hypocracy and Gore is but one example.

It's not an example of hypocrisy when this guy is working his ass off on the same issue. It's really not. And it's pretty disingenous to claim it as a hypocritical act.
Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

20 households is not a small city...

Yeah, I read the article, and whether written by a conservative or a liberal, it doesn't do much more than complain that a vague description of a disparate unorganised political entity...describes a disparate unorganised political entity.

http://adbusters.org/the_magazine/images/stories/71/inside_silly3.gif

Anyone with a head more than halfway screwed on will realise that arguing policy issues on a liberal vs conservative basis is pointless. It's a hangover of the two-party system that any event/idea/person gets jammed into either Red or Blue.
Just like the "right", the "left" only exists as a collective organisation when someone on the "other side' is decrying it. Unfortunately the political sytem of Dems vs Reps caters to this illlusion, and feeds it.
Another major complaint is that the poor people aren't being heard. Is anyone surprised by that?
What allows ascension to political office? Money
Do poor people have any to spare? On the whole, no.
Who does? Rich people.
(this is not a party political issue here)

The heaps of caricature and stereotype really don't help either. I just tune it out, I'm guessing the author is appealing to a certain demographic here, I'll not say which one. The author would like the term liberal to mean something that it doesn't.

[August]

It's not an example of hypocrisy when this guy is working his ass off on the same issue. It's really not. And it's pretty disingenous to claim it as a hypocritical act.

Working his ass off making money you mean. And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

Not all elected officials (which Gore is not btw) are lecturing the working class to cut back on their consumption while blatently ignoring it for themselves.

[The Avon Lady]

It's not an example of hypocrisy when this guy is working his ass off on the same issue. It's really not. And it's pretty disingenous to claim it as a hypocritical act.

Working his ass off making money you mean. And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

Not all elected officials (which Gore is not btw) are lecturing the working class to cut back on their consumption while blatently ignoring it for themselves.
Obviously some people here subscribe to all men being equal but some being more equal than others.

[Tchocky]

Working his ass off making money you mean. Er, yes. What's wrong with making money? He gives a lot of money to carbon-offset and carbon-neutral endeavours.
Do you give out about doctors getting paid as well?
Look at what his work is, working towards reducing the dsamage we are doing to our planet. This mypoic focusing in on his house seems not last-ditch, but close.

And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich. Transport? Lodging? How dare he!
Gore offsets as much as he can from every flight, and as far as I remember does a similiar thing for his electricity.
Also, the house is an office too, both for Al and Tipper. Most American homes are not the place of two businesses. Gore pays an additional $450 per month to make sure that as much energy as possible comes from renewable sources.

Not all elected officials (which Gore is not btw) are lecturing the working class to cut back on their consumption while blatently ignoring it for themselves. Blatantly ignoring? i don't think so.

[Sea Demon]

Obviously some people here subscribe to all men being equal but some being more equal than others.
That is quite a common trait from people on the left. Look how this guy tries to brush off Gore's blatant hypocritical usage of energy while Gore asks others to conserve drastically. And this guy can't see it. Another crazy thing about Gore here is that he's making money off the company that sells the "carbon credits" by inundating the "green faithful" with guilt. Can you say Ponzi Scheme???? If anything, Al Gore is a slick snake-oil salesman playing people's fears to make a buck. If people make excuses for him, and just can't see the outrageous hypocritical nature of this con-man, that's their problem with denial and blindness.

Remember PT Barnum's famous quote??? ;)

[Sea Demon]

Er, yes. What's wrong with making money? He gives a lot of money to carbon-offset and carbon-neutral endeavours.


:lol::lol: Gore's the one making money off this scam. He's basically paying himself.

[Tchocky]

So, he (through the group he chairs) invests in companies that share his beliefs and ideals.........GIM (the investment management group that he chairs) focuses on sustainability, responsibility and ethical governance.

By the way, cap-and-trade programs can allow this, reducing carbon footprint to make money for yourself.

Look how this guy tries to brush off Gore's blatant hypocritical usage of energy while Gore asks others to conserve drastically. And this guy can't see it.
If I can't see it, then show me. I'm not blind or in denial (ha ha ha!).

It would be blatantly hypocritical if Gore was making no effort at energy conservation. Sorry guys, that's just not the case.
oh yeah, and that's after his activities outside the home. All of that work to fight global warming.
The mountain is over >>>>> there. Let's leave the molehill alone.

(anyone want to talk about the article?)

[Sea Demon]

So, he (through the group he chairs) invests in companies that share his beliefs and ideals.........GIM (the investment management group that he chairs) focuses on sustainability, responsibility and ethical governance.

By the way, cap-and-trade programs can allow this, reducing carbon footprint to make money for yourself.

Look how this guy tries to brush off Gore's blatant hypocritical usage of energy while Gore asks others to conserve drastically. And this guy can't see it.
If I can't see it, then show me. I'm not blind or in denial (ha ha ha!).

It would be blatantly hypocritical if Gore was making no effort at energy conservation. Sorry guys, that's just not the case.
oh yeah, and that's after his activities outside the home. All of that work to fight global warming.

(anyone want to talk about the article?)
:lol: You just blew away your entire argument by yourself in your last paragraph. At any rate, let me guess, you're another one of those college students who has the whole world figured out. You can't see how 1 man spouting guilt tripped nonsense on 'global warming' and telling people they need to conserve, reduce, and eliminate wasteful forms of energy, including travel can be is hypocritical when he's on a plane almost every other day, owns three mansions that output an average of 18,000 KWh per month, and buys stock in an investment management firm that sells off these scam "carbon credits"? That's either blindness or willful/forced denial.

[Tchocky]

At any rate, let me guess, you're another one of those college students who has the whole world figured out. i wouldn't say that. Let's say that I'm at 43%, planning for half by the weekend.

You can't see how 1 man spouting guilt tripped nonsense on 'global warming' and telling people they need to conserve, reduce, and eliminate wasteful forms of energy, including travel can be is hypocritical when he's on a plane almost every other day, Yeah, where's he going on those planes? Travelling, because it's necessary in his work, giving speeches and holding meetings, screenings and conventions. There's a balance to strike between not harming the planet, and being effective in working towards carbon reduction.
owns three mansions that output an average of 18,000 KWh per month, Yeah, they are big houses. But himself and his wife avoid the extra power usage of two seperate offices in seperate buildings, by working in the house. So, throiugh that, the power use will be higher, but not so far. Also, a lot of the energy is from green sources, regardless of where the money ends up. So this helps alleviate greenhouse gases.

But only by a small amount, because it's just one (or twenty) households. Influencing policy, opinion and behaviour is what makes real change. And that's what Gore does full time. That's why he is not a hypocrite. If he sat on his ass all day and did nothing but request less well-off people to make sacrifices that he wasn't, then yes, he'd be a gold-plated hypocrite. But that is not the case, and I think you know it.and buys stock in an investment management firm that sells off these scam "carbon credits"? Following his own personal beliefs in his financial portfolio is not a flaw. That would be why he helped set up GIM. And probably why he does business with companies he has invested in, and is sure of their environmental credentials.
Carbon credits are not scams, man.


(Bleh. article?)

[August]

Working his ass off making money you mean. Er, yes. What's wrong with making money? He gives a lot of money to carbon-offset and carbon-neutral endeavours.

You have any proof of that? I've read that he hasn't signed up for the higher "green" electric rates and i have also read that the companies he buys carbon offset credits from are actually owned by him (ie he pays himself).

Do you give out about doctors getting paid as well?

If a doctor was smoking a butt while lecturing me about the evils of cigarettes, then yes, I might have a problem with that as well.

Look at what his work is, working towards reducing the dsamage we are doing to our planet. This mypoic focusing in on his house seems not last-ditch, but close.

Defend him all you want but the only thing Al Gore is working towards is making money. If it weren't promoting global warming hysteria it would be some other lucrative liberal cause.

And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich.

Transport?
Lodging?

Who is kidding who? A private jet is not the same thing a bus ticket or a coach seat on Budget Airline. Let me refer you back to the article.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

No you are not sure, you just want to believe it.

Blatantly ignoring? i don't think so.

Ok maybe not blatantly, but ignoring none the less...

[Sea Demon]

There's a quote attributed to PT Barnum, Tchocky. I suggest you look into it. I've lived long enough to know a scam when I see it.

[August]

If anything, Al Gore is a slick snake-oil salesman playing people's fears to make a buck. If people make excuses for him, and just can't see the outrageous hypocritical nature of this con-man, that's their problem with denial and blindness.

Sure, look at the Y2K Florida elections. The Gore camp didn't want ALL the votes being recounted, oh no! They only wanted recounts in those in the counties that favored him. Meanwhile his army of lawyers were getting every military absentee ballot they could thrown out because they tended to favor Bush.

Hypocracy is nothing new for the Democrats. While claiming to be the guardians of truth and justice they filed dozens of lawsuits in various states to get Naders name taken off the ballot. You didn't see the GoP doing the same thing to Perot...

[waste gate]

Another part of the Y2K election was the insinuation that the people who would have voted for Algore couldn't; be cause the ballots were too dificult. Yet the people who voted for GWB didn't have any difficulty.

He called his own supporters stupid.:rotfl:

Edit: Here is the ballot.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/66/Butterfly_large.jpg/800px-Butterfly_large.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/66/Butterfly_large.jpg)

[Tchocky]

Working his ass off making money you mean. Er, yes. What's wrong with making money? He gives a lot of money to carbon-offset and carbon-neutral endeavours.
You have any proof of that? I've read that he hasn't signed up for the higher "green" electric rates and i have also read that the companies he buys carbon offset credits from are actually owned by him (ie he pays himself). His power usage is, as Demon posted, around 18,000 kWh per month.
Gore bought 108 units of green energy every month, this equates to 16,200kWh per month. This costs an extra $432 per month (I was over when I said $450 in my last post, apologies)

http://www.nespower.com/green_power_switch.aspx

So that's equivalent to recycling 10 million coke cans a year. I think that offsets something
Defend him all you want but the only thing Al Gore is working towards is making money. If it weren't promoting global warming hysteria it would be some other lucrative liberal cause. So it's hysterical to want to get off of oil and onto sources that don't pollute the air, sea and land? Count me hysterical then.
I don't understand this kind of nasty tarring, especially when it stems from one man's electricity bill, and not what he devotes his life to. You know, voting for a candidate because of their shoes. The misdirection of attention doesn't add up to me. If Gore is so obviously money-grubbing, wouldnt he be investing in oil? You know? The stuff that's running out and climbing in price every couple of months? Who's making record profits, Gore or Exxon?
And if he is in it purely for the money, why does his energy model cost him an extra $432 per month? That's not the behaviour of of someone who's out for cash..
Defending him? Not so much. But a lot of stuff here doesn't make sense.

Who is kidding who? A private jet is not the same thing a bus ticket or a coach seat on Budget Airline. Let me refer you back to the article. Of course not. Gore offset all the promo flights he made, in a private jet, for the film. I don't know about hios speaking tours.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.
No you are not sure, you just want to believe it. Yeah I want to believe it, it seems to be true too.
Measuring influence is difficult. Forgetting about the 10 million cans per year, look at how much more of an issue climate change is these days. It really is a top-agenda item in Europe, less so in the US, but in the ascendant. It needs someone at the head of it, Gore's not too bad. GIM's sustainability and ecological investments must be helping, so must the rafts of legislation currently in the works.


Blatantly ignoring? i don't think so.
Ok maybe not blatantly, but ignoring none the less...This was in reference to cutting back in consumption.
How the hell, when 16,000 out of 18,000 kWh come from green sources, can you say that he's ignoring it? Ignoring it would be not installing solar panels, not using energy efficient bulbs, not combining home and business into one building, not driving a hybrid.....on and on

(article? I had a look at it earlier)

August - Accusing the Democrats of hypocrisy during the Florida elections? never heard this before. Wasn't it only for the counties where results were disputed? Link?

GOP claims to guard truth and justice too, mind. Not like "they did it so it's ok for us", but it's not much to fight on.

[Sea Demon]

His power usage is, as Demon posted, around 18,000 kWh per month.
Gore bought 108 units of green energy every month, this equates to 16,200kWh per month. This costs an extra $432 per month (I was over when I said $450 in my last post, apologies)


So that's equivalent to recycling 10 million coke cans a year. I think that offsets something

So, he's paying himself (his stock interest) for "green energy". Do you even know what this so-called green energy is? Do you know where it comes from? Where it's used or how it's applied? Does this mean his SUV doesn't pollute? The jets he rides in (almost daily) aren't putting emissions into the air? :lol: His 3 mansions aren't using an egregious amount of energy even when he's not there? You people on the left crack me up. So let's all just alleviate our collective guilt by paying money to Gore himself or to Gore's company for these so-called "green energy units" every month to atone for our daily activities. Man, what a racket. I wish I would have thought of it. :rotfl:

[Heibges]

?

I think the point of the article is the at folks the liberals say the serve and represent, don't exist any more. And they didn't do anything about it during their demise. They let the Republicans destroy the manufacturing base, drive family farms out of business, and send the National Debt throught the roof. There time to be liberal and indignant was 30 years ago, not now.

Reagan moved our hight paying manufacturing jobs overseas and destroyed the family farm, while Clinton and NAFTA drove the nail in the coffin.

Plus, between Reagan and Little Bushie, we have a debt we will never repay.

The liberals are more like Game Wardens, trying to protect wildlife, after the Republicans went out with powerful spotlights and killed them at night.

[Tchocky]

So, he's paying himself (his stock interest) for "green energy". Do you even know what this so-called green energy is? Do you know where it comes from? Yeah, mostly wind and solar as far as I know. Do you know?
Where it's used or how it's applied? Same way normal electricity is used, because it is normal electricity.
Does this mean his SUV doesn't pollute? The jets he rides in (almost daily) aren't putting emissions into the air?yes, that's exactly what it means. His bowel movements smell like rose petals too.

Exactly how much do you expect me to know about the personal life of someone i've never met or seen? And how much of this are you going to assume?
You people on the left crack me up. So let's all just alleviate our collective guilt by paying money to Gore himself or to Gore's company for these so-called "green energy units" every month to atone for our daily activities. I'm trying to think of how much would end up coming back to Al, from that $432 every month. It can't be too much. Yeah, so some of the money comes back to him. That's the result of investing in ecologically-minded companies and buying green power.

Does anyone want to talk about the article? Dull and boring as it was, it seems to be the OP. This crap starts to get tiring once the "let me guess, you're another one of those college students" stuff starts flying.
Shall I start assuming things about other posters? Is that OK now?

ugh bleh and double ugh

[waste gate]

Tchocky[/B]]I'm trying to think of how much would end up coming back to Al, from that $432 every month. It can't be too much. Yeah, so some of the money comes back to him. That's the result of investing in ecologically-minded companies and buying green power.


And Dick Chenney invested in Haliburton. Yet he gets beat up for that.

[Tchocky]

Well, they're getting no-bid contracts, and inflating costs to line their own pockets. It's worth beating up Cheney for this.

But not with Dick Cheney's money, with taxpayers money. Yours, mine (but not to such an extent :))

Also, Dick Cheney has holding in Halliburton.....because he was employed there. They gave him money to work there, and even when he wasn't working there, when he was VP.

They are not similiar situations, except in that both men once held the same post.

(article?)

[Sea Demon]

Yeah, mostly wind and solar as far as I know. Do you know?
Where it's used or how it's applied? Same way normal electricity is used, because it is normal electricity.
Does this mean his SUV doesn't pollute? The jets he rides in (almost daily) aren't putting emissions into the air?yes, that's exactly what it means. His bowel movements smell like rose petals too.

Exactly how much do you expect me to know about the personal life of someone i've never met or seen? And how much of this are you going to assume?
You people on the left crack me up. So let's all just alleviate our collective guilt by paying money to Gore himself or to Gore's company for these so-called "green energy units" every month to atone for our daily activities. I'm trying to think of how much would end up coming back to Al, from that $432 every month. It can't be too much. Yeah, so some of the money comes back to him. That's the result of investing in ecologically-minded companies and buying green power.


Where are these wind farms?? Where is the solar arrays from these "carbon offsets"? How is any of it being routed into commercial power distribution nodes? I just gotta laugh at the excuse making for this obvious conman. The logic, or lack of it, from the left is laughable. Using Al Gore's logic regarding paying for his own emissions, I can beat my wife because I give to the Women's Shelter. Geez. I don't know why lefties can't see that these people never put their money where their mouth is. These people can tell you all day they're buying "green energy units", and you don't have any knowledge of how it works, what it is, and it's distribution. Nobody else seems to either. It's just funny how the left seems to spout things out, and usually have a difficult time proving their assertions. This usually happens when your arguments come from an emotional core.

[waste gate]

Well, they're getting no-bid contracts, and inflating costs to line their own pockets. It's worth beating up Cheney for this.

But not with Dick Cheney's money, with taxpayers money. Yours, mine (but not to such an extent :))

Also, Dick Cheney has holding in Halliburton.....because he was employed there. They gave him money to work there, and even when he wasn't working there, when he was VP.

They are not similiar situations, except in that both men once held the same post.

(article?)

Chenney has not been vested in any Haliburton business since becoming VP.
Algore is vested in GIM and is pushing hard for policy change which will enrich him while he happily uses all the energy he wishes while asking everyone else to conserve.

His behavior is but one example of the hypocracy which is mentioned inthe OP.

[Tchocky]

Where are these wind farms?? Where is the solar arrays from these "carbon offsets"? How is any of it being routed into commercial power distribution nodes? 18 turbines near Oak Ridge. I don't know about the nodes. I assume so, because it's gets from the power company to Al's house
I just gotta laugh at the excuse making for this obvious conman. Please show me this obvious con. You've been saying this without backing it up.
The logic, or lack of it, from the left is laughable. Using Al Gore's logic regarding paying for his own emissions, I can beat my wife because I give to the Women's Shelter. No, that would be buying a women's shelter and paying them not to beat your wife.
I really don't think this is a right/left issue. There's a lot of misuse of those terms, same as socialist/ism.
I don't know why lefties can't see that these people never put their money where their mouth is. Well....if global warming really is a conspiracy of power-hungry scientists, then Gore is up a non-melting glacier without a paddle, isn't he? His livelihood depends on climate change being the threat that it is. That, to me, is putting money in mouth.
These people can tell you all day they're buying "green energy units", and you don't have no knowledge of how it works, what it is, and it's distribution. Nobody else seems to either. http://www.nespower.com/green_power_switch.aspx

I posted this earlier, this is the scheme Gore is using. Have a look through it. It won't bite.

Oh wait, "dont have no knowledge". I see what you did there. It's nice to agree.


Chenney has not been vested in any Haliburton business since becoming VP. No, but they have paid him over $300,000. I said nothing about investment.

Algore is vested in GIM and is pushing hard for policy change which will enrich him while
he happily uses all the energy he wishes while asking everyone else to conserve. he does conserve. Also, most of his power comes from renewable sources.
I've been over (and over) this.

His behavior is but one example of the hypocracy which is mentioned inthe OP.
And this one.


But only by a small amount, because it's just one (or twenty) households. Influencing policy, opinion and behaviour is what makes real change. And that's what Gore does full time. That's why he is not a hypocrite. If he sat on his ass all day and did nothing but request less well-off people to make sacrifices that he wasn't, then yes, he'd be a gold-plated hypocrite. But that is not the case, and I think you know it.

[waste gate]

http://www.nespower.com/green_power_switch.aspx


Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?

[August]

Look Tchocky, obviously you are not going to believe anything bad about your Saint Gore and you aren't going to change my mind that he's not just another political opportunist using the latest scare tactic du jour as his ticket back into political power. Certainly not with a generic link to the Nashville power service company which says absolutely nothing about what type of plan Gore is actually paying for.

Meanwhile arguing over it derails the thread, something you have accused others of doing in the past.

If you really feel that the Democrat party leadership aren't elitist know it alls who have disconnected themselves from the working American voting base they claim to champion against the ebil republicans then nothing i can say will change that opinion.

Personally I hope they continue along that path and we'll see who gets elected president in '08.

[Tchocky]

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
Simple. It costs more to produce energy from the wind and sun. Economies of scale kick in eventually for some methods, bringing $/watt costs below fossils. But for the tiny amount of the energy sector that is renewable, they have not come into effect yet.
Well for an average household that's another $35 or so. Some people like to spend their money on clean air. Some don't.

[waste gate]

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?

Simple. It costs more to produce energy from the wind and sun. Economies of scale kick in eventually for some methods, bringing $/watt costs below fossils. But for the tiny amount of the energy sector that is renewable, they have not come into effect yet.
Well for an average household that's another $35 or so. Some people like to spend their money on clean air. Some don't.

And some cannot. For the working poor, that some fight for, your enviro policies will hurt them badly.

[Sea Demon]

No, that would be buying a women's shelter and paying them not to beat your wife.

Actually no. It would be more invest in a women's shelter, and pay yourself out of guilt (and your clinic) after beating your wife. And getting others the license to do the same. All as long as they pay you.

At any rate. I've been looking at this website all day. It seems like a sham. It looks like these people are getting the "green faithful" to pony up dough. Nothing else. Gore is dedicated to his "cause", but his lifestyle betrays his own intentions. He can obviously tell you all day that his energy uses are from renewable sources, but he seems to be plugged into commercial power just like the rest of us. I also don't know how he's applying this to his abundant air travel as well. Solar power aircraft is still something Gore can't promise. But I'm sure you'll fall in line if he promises you that he's burning "green fuels". :roll:

And no, you don't know how any of the ins and outs work. That is clear. That usually is how shams are done. Alot of vagueries, wishful thinking, and a "grand" vision du jour are always the key in getting people to fall for stuff like this. Gore twists it a little and uses fear. That's ultimately the only difference I see. If Gore was a man of conviction, he would give up those mansions at a profit loss and buy a 900 sq. ft. home (only 1), stop his air travel and drive around a hybrid automobile and use the internet to spread his nonsense. This is why he can't really be taken seriously by any other than the "green faithful".

[Tchocky]

Look Tchocky, obviously you are not going to believe anything bad about your Saint Gore and you aren't going to change my mind that he's just another political opportunist using the latest scare tactic du jour as his ticket back into political power.That's very open-minded of you. Is he a political opportunist or a money-grubber? You've been jumping between the two. You haven't answered my questions as to the illogical nature of the "money argument". Saint Gore? I'm arguing here with you because a lot of what you (and others) have posted does not make sense. Maybe that's a problem with my perception. Maybe not. I'll believe something bad about him if it's true and reasoned. Most of the stuff here is vitriolic and insulting.

Certainly not with a generic link to the Nashville power service company which says absolutely nothing about what type of plan Gore is actually paying for. WKRN-TV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WKRN-TV) reported that the Gore family obtains their power from the NES's "renewable energy initiative", The Green Power Switch program which depends upon "wind, solar, and methane gas." Best i could do. i'm going to trust wiki on this one, because I'm 4,000 miles from Nashville and I really don't want to break out my burglary kit.

Meanwhile arguing over it derails the thread, something you have accused others of doing in the past. Sorry. I question things I don't understand and argue points that don't make sense. To me. If a mod wants to split this stuff that's ok.

If you really feel that the Democrat party leadership aren't elitist know it alls who have disconnected themselves from the working American voting base they claim to champion against the ebil republicans then nothing i can say will change that opinion. Look at my first response to waste_gate. All politicians are elitist by position if not by choice. They are disconnected from the working base because of the financial realities of American politics. I posted to this effect earlier, but you seem to have missed or chosen not to reply. Nothing I've said about Gore has anything to do with elitism, I really don't know where you're getting this from.

And some cannot. For the working poor, that some fight for, your enviro policies will hurt them badly.
Which ones? This energy option is a small way in which those who can pay for it, can help. Real change comes through industries and government, not single households.

[Sea Demon]

Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
This is why it's so easily seen as a shtick. ;) This is the largest ponzi scheme I've ever seen.

[Tchocky]

Actually no. It would be more invest in a women's shelter, and pay yourself (and your clinic) after beating your wife out of guilt. Fair enough. I'll let that one go....

At any rate. I've been looking at this website all day. It seems like a sham. It looks like these people are getting the "green faithful" to pony up dough. Nothing else. Gore is dedicated to his "cause", but his lifestyle betrays his own intentions. He can obviously tell you all day that his energy uses are from renewable sources, but he seems to be plugged into commercial power just like the rest of us. I think they take your $4, and switch 150kWh from fossil to renewable. I don't know how this all works, but that doesn't mean it's a scam. I don't know how my TV works (that well), it doesn't mean that it's not real.
I also don't know how he's applying this to his abundant air travel as well. Solar power aircraft is still something Gore can't promise. Course he can't promise that. He's not a reknowned aeronautical engineer. he's a politician. Don't we know this already.
The flights can be offset via investment in renewables or tree-planting. But I'm sure you'll fall in line if he promises you that he's burning "green fuels". :roll: And there was me wondering about the Orange. Let's start the Assumption Game!

And no, you don't know how any of the ins and outs work. That is clear. That usually is how shams are done. Alot of vagueries, wishful thinking, and a "grand" vision du jour are always the key in getting people to fall for stuff like this. Gore twists it a little and uses fear. That's ultimately the only difference I see. Yeah, I don't know how the ins and outs work. Why then, is this so obviously a scam?? (been here before). Just run through it with me once.
If Gore was a man of conviction, he would give up those mansions at a profit loss and buy a 900 sq. ft. home (only 1), stop his air travel and drive around a hybrid automobile and use the internet to spread his nonsense. This is why he can't really be taken seriously by any other than the "green faithful". True, but then he'd have a much reduced profile and bully pulpit. This is contrary to his goals. Balance in all things...

[Tchocky]

Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
This is why it's so easily seen as a shtick. ;) This is the largest ponzi scheme I've ever seen.
What? How? It is a good that costs more money! That's about it!
Paying the proper price for something is not a ponzi scheme. The energy companies get pretty large subsidies anyway, so you're still doing well.
Waste, asking why you should pay an extra $4. If you were paying flat, normal rate for this power, the power company would be losing $4 on every block.

[waste gate]

@Tchocky

I'd like to salute you for sticking to your opinion while being shown from many sides the error of your ways. You are a true believer. Kuddos

[waste gate]

Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
This is why it's so easily seen as a shtick. ;) This is the largest ponzi scheme I've ever seen.
What? How? It is a good that costs more money! That's about it!
Paying the proper price for something is not a ponzi scheme. The energy companies get pretty large subsidies anyway, so you're still doing well.
Waste, asking why you should pay an extra $4. If you were paying flat, normal rate for this power, the power company would be losing $4 on every block.

Considering the utility company has a monopoly on the power supply, and the PUC which is a non-elected, chronie, rubber stamp machine, I don't feel too bad about denying them the four dollars. Why would I want to give them more money?

[Tchocky]

@Tchocky

I'd like to salute you for sticking to your opinion while being shown from many sides the error of your ways. You are a true believer. Kuddos Point me to the post(s?) where this happened.

Why would I want to give them more money?The lack of emissions/pollution that would have come with conventional generation.

[waste gate]

@Tchocky

I'd like to salute you for sticking to your opinion while being shown from many sides the error of your ways. You are a true believer. Kuddos Point me to the post(s?) where this happened.

Why would I want to give them more money?The lack of emissions/pollution that would have come with conventional generation.

Ya see I was trying to give you a compliment.
So you would advocate nuclear power generation? H2O is the byproduct and God knows if the warming, and not the cooling, gets out of hand we will need the water.

[Tchocky]

Ya see I was trying to give you a compliment. Wow, you edit fast. Let's say we disagree on me being shown my error. And the "all sides" bit. I may well be wrong about everything, but I don't think so and I haven't been logically told otherwise.
So you would advocate nuclear power generation? H2O is the byproduct and God knows if the warming, and not the cooling, gets out of hand we will need the water.
Lolz :)

Definitely yes on nuclear. It's a lot less harmful than fossils, provided we handle the waste issue carefully. It also gives us the breathing space to move from fossils and unrenewables like nuclear, to renewable clean energy.

Take a leaf from France's book, if necessary.

[Heibges]

Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
This is why it's so easily seen as a shtick. ;) This is the largest ponzi scheme I've ever seen.
What? How? It is a good that costs more money! That's about it!
Paying the proper price for something is not a ponzi scheme. The energy companies get pretty large subsidies anyway, so you're still doing well.
Waste, asking why you should pay an extra $4. If you were paying flat, normal rate for this power, the power company would be losing $4 on every block.

Considering the utility company has a monopoly on the power supply, and the PUC which is a non-elected, chronie, rubber stamp machine, I don't feel too bad about denying them the four dollars. Why would I want to give them more money?

So is it the Power Companies, the PUC, and the Greenies who are scamming you here? You have argued against every side in this discussion.

[waste gate]

Ya see I was trying to give you a compliment. Wow, you edit fast. Let's say we disagree on me being shown my error. And the "all sides" bit. I may well be wrong about everything, but I don't think so and I haven't been logically told otherwise.
So you would advocate nuclear power generation? H2O is the byproduct and God knows if the warming, and not the cooling, gets out of hand we will need the water.
Lolz :)

Definitely yes on nuclear. It's a lot less harmful than fossils, provided we handle the waste issue carefully. It also gives us the breathing space to move from fossils and unrenewables like nuclear, to renewable clean energy.

Take a leaf from France's book, if necessary.

OK, since you brought it up the waste should be delt with before there is any waste. Like batteries in the new hybrid cars, the enviromental impact should be studied before any construction begins. Then there is that nasty bit about who's neighborhood the nuclear plants will be constructed. What are the safe guards and gaurantees to the local population. Will the land be paid for or will eminant domain be the buzz word? Will large corporations like GE and Westinghouse be the operator? (they have the most experience in nuclear energy).

The list goes on.

[waste gate]

Each block will add $4 to your monthly power bill.

That is four dollars too much. It all adds up $4 for this $4 for that, $4 for the next thing. Where does it stop? Why should I or anyone else give Algore and company the money?
This is why it's so easily seen as a shtick. ;) This is the largest ponzi scheme I've ever seen.
What? How? It is a good that costs more money! That's about it!
Paying the proper price for something is not a ponzi scheme. The energy companies get pretty large subsidies anyway, so you're still doing well.
Waste, asking why you should pay an extra $4. If you were paying flat, normal rate for this power, the power company would be losing $4 on every block.

Considering the utility company has a monopoly on the power supply, and the PUC which is a non-elected, chronie, rubber stamp machine, I don't feel too bad about denying them the four dollars. Why would I want to give them more money?

So is it the Power Companies, the PUC, and the Greenies who are scamming you here? You have argued against every side in this discussion.

If I have argued against every side it is because there are many questions but few answers coming.

I was born October 10, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and sixty, in Hannibal, Missouri. Your going to have to 'show me'.

[Tchocky]

OK, since you brought it up the waste should be delt with before there is any waste. Like batteries in the new hybrid cars, the enviromental impact should be studied before any construction begins. Then there is that nasty bit about who's neighborhood the nuclear plants will be constructed. What are the safe guards and gaurantees to the local population. Will the land be paid for or will eminant domain be the buzz word? Will large corporations like GE and Westinghouse be the operator? (they have the most experience in nuclear energy).
Well, these are all important considerations that should be resolved in planning, and they usually are.
Location? Where it's cheap and as unintrusive as possible.
Waste? Somewhere ultra-secure and leakproof. (hey, at least it's not going in our lungs and eyes)
Companies? Whoever fulfils the contract most satisfactorily?

That these issues must be thought through is no reason not to go nuclear

[waste gate]

OK, since you brought it up the waste should be delt with before there is any waste. Like batteries in the new hybrid cars, the enviromental impact should be studied before any construction begins. Then there is that nasty bit about who's neighborhood the nuclear plants will be constructed. What are the safe guards and gaurantees to the local population. Will the land be paid for or will eminant domain be the buzz word? Will large corporations like GE and Westinghouse be the operator? (they have the most experience in nuclear energy).
Well, these are all important considerations that should be resolved in planning, and they usually are.
Location? Where it's cheap and as unintrusive as possible.
Waste? Somewhere ultra-secure and leakproof. (hey, at least it's not going in our lungs and eyes)
Companies? Whoever fulfils the contract most satisfactorily?

That these issues must be thought through is no reason not to go nuclear

I have no problem with the use of nuclear energy. But once we start down that road I'm certain that there will be folks who will bitch about it. Remember, 'no good deed goes unpunished'.

[bradclark1]

It's not an example of hypocrisy when this guy is working his ass off on the same issue. It's really not. And it's pretty disingenous to claim it as a hypocritical act.

Working his ass off making money you mean. And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

Not all elected officials (which Gore is not btw) are lecturing the working class to cut back on their consumption while blatently ignoring it for themselves.
I'll tell him to live in a shack and drive a donkey next time I see him.:roll:

[bradclark1]

Working his ass off making money you mean. Er, yes. What's wrong with making money? He gives a lot of money to carbon-offset and carbon-neutral endeavours.

You have any proof of that? I've read that he hasn't signed up for the higher "green" electric rates and i have also read that the companies he buys carbon offset credits from are actually owned by him (ie he pays himself).

Do you give out about doctors getting paid as well?

If a doctor was smoking a butt while lecturing me about the evils of cigarettes, then yes, I might have a problem with that as well.

Look at what his work is, working towards reducing the dsamage we are doing to our planet. This mypoic focusing in on his house seems not last-ditch, but close.

Defend him all you want but the only thing Al Gore is working towards is making money. If it weren't promoting global warming hysteria it would be some other lucrative liberal cause.

And it's not just one house but a 10,000-square-foot, 20-room, eight-bathroom home in Nashville, and a 4,000-square-foot home in Arlington, Va. (He also has a third home in Carthage, Tenn.) Lets not forget also the private jet he used to fly around the country promoting his lucrative scare movie as well as numerous limos, hotels and other expensive habits of the ultra rich.

Transport?
Lodging?

Who is kidding who? A private jet is not the same thing a bus ticket or a coach seat on Budget Airline. Let me refer you back to the article.

Using more energy than the average citizen is unfortunate, but universal among elected officials. I'm sure Gore's other activities more than offset the house.

No you are not sure, you just want to believe it.

Blatantly ignoring? i don't think so.

Ok maybe not blatantly, but ignoring none the less...
August, I really think you suffer from Gore hysteria.
I can't read anymore more of this particular thread because I'm either going to gag or fall out of my chair laughing.:)

Edit: Forgot to add smiley.

[The Avon Lady]

I'll tell him to live in a shack and drive a donkey next time I see him.:roll:

:ping: :ping: :ping: METHANE ALERT!!! :ping: :ping: :ping:

Real enviromentalists drive chickens. :yep:

[Tchocky]

It's a ritual on every Earth-child's 8th birthday - a brand new chicken and saddle

(an arresting mental image indeed)

( not the 8-years old part, that's an arrestable image)