SHIV and a NEW processor!

[Snakeeyes]

Greetings all! Sorry I have not been around much in the SHIV forum, been playing Grey Wolves all Summer so far! It's addictive! I haven't been around pretty much because I'm waiting for a new system AND the 1.3 patch before I really start playing SHIV again. Last time I played it we had just gotten FSAA.

I need some advice from you GENIUSES out there.

I've got a Pentium 4 2.8 with a Nvidia 7800 AGP 256 RAM. I FINALLY have found the possible means by which to purchase a NEWER system! Amazing!

I'm looking at an Intel Dual core E6600 2.40 GHZ processor, 1 gig ram originally (2 after I set up) Windows XP Biostar Geforce 7600 GT 512 MB, a single CD/DVD/CDRW/KGB/FBI/AGM-114 disc drive.

First of all, will this system be able to ROCK SHIV?

Will a 350 watt power supply be powerful enough? what should I do about cooling?

Any DEALS you guys be willing to share? I'm looking at getting parts from Tigerdirect and Newegg.

Drop me a line! All of your opinions are 100% welcome!


May your solutions be true, your fruit stay fresh and Bernard stay in sight.

[Quillan]

First, great processor choice. Not too weak, not too expensive either. RAM looks good.

Second, why are you dropping down on the video card? You had a 7800, get at least as good as you had before.

Third, cooling should be fine, as most of the newer processors have good OEM cooling fans/heatsinks that come with them.

Fourth, I really, really, recommend you get a bigger power supply. I'd say 480 watts at a minimum, and get a reputable brand. Total wattage of the PSU isn't the most important thing anyway. With modern computers, there's a lot more drain on the 12V supply than the other two, so you want one that can supply a lot of 12V power.

[Dogster]

I agree with Quillan get a bigger PSU and get a good one(Thermaltake, Silverstone, Antec, Mushkin etc...). They usually have great deals on them at Newegg.

People from what I've seen like to cut a corner by buying a cheap PSU. The PSU is one of the most criticle parts of system. If it screwsup(no overload/underload protection) it can take out your whole rig. Not Good.

I build my own rigs, for myself and friends. My Current system, oc'd to 3.06 ghz.

MoBo: Asus M2N-E
CPU: AMD 5600 X2 2.8 ghz
CPU Cooler: Gigabyte Rocket Pro Cooler
RAM: 2 gigs Kingston Valueram
HD's: 2 WD Caviar 160's (RAID 0)
PSU: Silverstone 750W Continuous
GPU: EVGA 8800 GTS 640MB "Superclocked"
DVD/RW: Samsung DVD/RW
DVD ROM: Samsung DVD ROM
OS: Windows XP Pro

[Snakeeyes]

What good graphics card would you suggest?

I'm looking at XFX PVT71PUDP3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 EXTREME Video Card

My old AGP just wont interface with the new motherboard.

The motherboard btw is Intel D946GZ Socket 775 mATX Motherboard w/LAN

Could I get a Quad processor to work with it in the future? I want a system I can build on.

[clayp]

:D :D :D

[Sunday Driver]

I've just upgraded....

Old system:

Intel P4 2600
ATI 9600SE 128
1 GB generic Ram

SH4 only just accepable with most sliders to the left.

New system:

Intel E6600
Asus P5B Deluxe
ATI X1950Pro 512
2gb Corsair 1066 Ram

SH4 runs with everything maxed out. Frame rate? - irrelevant, everything is as smooth as silk. All the eye candy is there.

Stunning!

[orangenee]

@ the OP, as said before you want a better PSU not necessarily with higher wattage but with at least 18A going down the 12V rail, the current is the most important part.

[CaptainCox]

Running a E6600@ 3.2 GHz here OCed of course (Scythe NINJA heat sink), but I think you might need to look at a bigger PSU. If you want full value for your bucks I would also recommend new FAST! RAM! and a killer gracard.

Personally I am running a 8800GTX, 2 gig OCZ DDR2 PC2-8500 SLI-Ready Edition, EVGA 680i mobo with a TAGAN 850W PSU...runs like butter ALL OF IT!...oh forgot...Lian Li PC-6070 B Plus II - black...case ;)

[Elder-Pirate]

Cotton pick'in hot rods! :up: Jeez some of you people have Smokin' computers and I'm just plain jealous. :rotfl: :arrgh!: Ah what the hey, more power to you. :yep:


Snakeeyes heed what the other guys said about the bigger power supply for they are very correct. I've a 7800GS AGP 256mb ( same as yours I think ) and the 7800GS calls for 20 amps down the 12 rail so now we are talking about 500 watts PSU at least. So that probably means that 7900GS 256mb your looking at will demand the same power. If you can afford it ( and have enough room in your computer----------measure first ) get the largest PSU you can handle ( power and money wise ).


@CaptainCox, wish I had that 850 watt PSU but I may not have the room. Whats its dimensions?

[ghost_666_rider]

I have to concur, choose wisely on your power supply, especially if you want to leave the upgrade room. The 12v rails take a massive hit if you go crossfire/sli. If you wanted to go 4X core later, again, don't under power it now or you will need to replace it later. The 6600 is a great cpu for the price and overclocks like a dream even on air! (if you are into that)

Just a mild comparison here, my previous rig, XP2500 Barton @2.58 and agp X850XT @ 565/590 pulled around 22-25 fps @1024X768 2XAA standing on the deck in harbour.

The new rig runs 60-75 fps at the same spot @1800X1125 6XAA and all eye candy on max. 6600 @3.4, single (2nd backordered) 2900XT @780/1800, 2 gig Team extreme @ 1100 4-5-5-12.

Now this is not an attempt to start a contest, just to illustrate a point. A *single* 2900 does this good for under $500 (CAN$). Also, the stock speed of a 6600 will do almost anything you might probably need for a few years to come, if not, overclock it.

Personally, I would up the graphics card to a higher level than a 7600, but its up to you how much eye candy and at what resolution. Be forewarned, sli setups do not equate to double performance if thats the route you were planning on.

[CaptainHaplo]

Everyone so far is dead on regarding the power supply. Simply put - 350 aint gonna push what your running well - and you havent even mentioned how many other devices are gonna draw power (those hard drives and dvd burners require juice too!) A 450 watt will run most single HD & DVD rigs with a single vid card that does not require a power plug for itself. The older AGP cards required a plug direct from power - but since it looks like your moving to PCIe - that frees up some demand since PCIe cards USUALLY (but not always) are powered only from the slot. If your running multiple HD's or DVD readers/writers - or are going to do a dual card setup at some point - you will want 500 watts or more.

As for the question of the Quadcore processors... its smart to go with a mainboard that will support it, but I wouldnt suggest ponying up the cash for the processor yet. At this point - there arent any games or apps that take advantage of it (rare for a game to even really use dual-cores properly).

Since we are on processors - do some research on Intel vs AMD performance against price. When Intel released the 2nd generation of dual cores, they really trounced AMD performance wise - but AMD has stepped back up with the am2 line. If your wanting to go Quadcore later though - Intel has to be your choice now because AMD's entry into that "market" is still vaporware. However realize that going quadcore means a Xeon chip right now. Xeons are their own little world mate.....

Ram - definitely go 2 gigs to start. All games are memory hogs - and I can tell ya - running SH4 on my new rig with 1 vs 2 gigs of ram makes a VERY large difference. Just go with what your gonna want anyway.

Vid cards are really a personal choice. I am going to say something that every Nvidia AND Ati fan out there are going to get upset over - but its the truth. The two brands are about the same when you take equally spec'd cards. Ati tends to give slightly higher frame rates - but the quality doesnt always match up - though it is close. The real decider for which brand you want is going to be your chip choice. AMD owns ATI - and Intel has partnered with Nvidia. If you go with a AMD chip - they tend to run a little happier with ATI GPU's - same goes for Nvidia and Intel. The difference isnt large - but in gaming systems every little bit helps. Whichever you choose - go with the largest card you can afford, spec wise. I honestly cannot support going dual GPU's - the increase you get isnt really that great for the cost - and its actually a big pain in the rump for most to get it to work right. The folks I know who have it - use it mainly for multimonitor (4 usually) support rather than frame rate increases.

Also you may occasionally here that you dont need more than 256 on a card. That was true in the heyday of AGP - but the standard has changed. However, dont go above 512 on a card (they are available with higher amounts) but the return in performance is negligable, but you'll bleed for a card running that higher number. Also pay attention to the specs - if its says "SE" (for Special Edition) or something - check the numbers - alot of cards are sold as budget highends - but have the speeds limited. No use paying for something then finding fine print.

A couple of other suggestions - if you havent already - swap your drives to sata - the increased transfer rate really makes a difference with newer rigs. IDE drives are still supported and work great as always - but the additional throughput rocks when it comes to load times. May or may not apply to you - but its often missed and becomes a bottleneck when people use their old drives in new machines. The second is when you build the box - most mb's come with everything (including vid) integrated. ALWAYS remember to turn the video shared memory OFF (set to none) or else the mb will apeture graphics memory but it wont be used.

Cooling is again a personal issue. My take on it - if your not overclocking - just go stock with a couple of case fans and good filters. A slot fan close to your GPU for additional airflow is also a good idea. Keep the filters cleaned, the PSU and box blown out occasionally - and you will be fine. However, if your gonna overclock - then yes - get a true copper heatsink with a whirlwind fan (there are a number of good makers out there), or if your really wanting to go big - look at liquid cooling. That however can be bloody expensive.

I notice you didnt include a sound card on your list. That might be a smart move - while the X-FI boards from SB are great - they seem to not like some rigs or some games. Actually that could be said for ALOT of SB boards.... I have an SB board in my rig - but its disabled except for the gameport. Onboard sound (AC'97 based mostly) has come along way in the last few years.

You also didnt include a physics card. Granted I don't know your budget, but if your really going to go all out on a gaming rig, you will be glad you invested in one. While not all games support it intentionally - properly installed the CPU will push most physics calculations to the card - making for a huge difference at times. An example would be when someone hits a ship with a high powered torp in SH4 (or hits a ammo bunker) and sets off a chain reaction of explosions. All the pieces flying off often cause a small stutter in FPS - with a physics card - there is none of that. As games get more realistic - the need for this addin will become more and more visible.

Either way - enjoy mate!:arrgh!:

[Subject]

If you can, then hang on till July 22nd...

Intel announces gigant pricedrops on their Core 2 Duo-processorer. Up to 50% on some models...

[Snakeeyes]

You guys are great! Thanks!

[switch.dota]

I've just upgraded....

Old system:

Intel P4 2600
ATI 9600SE 128
1 GB generic Ram

SH4 only just accepable with most sliders to the left.

New system:

Intel E6600
Asus P5B Deluxe
ATI X1950Pro 512
2gb Corsair 1066 Ram

SH4 runs with everything maxed out. Frame rate? - irrelevant, everything is as smooth as silk. All the eye candy is there.

Stunning!
I'm about to get a similar system myself. Only difference is that I'm aiming for the 7900GS, factory overclocked to 590 Mhz (up from a default of what - 400!?).

It's nice to know one of my top game choices will run like the wind :)

[ReallyDedPoet]

If you can, then hang on till July 22nd...

Intel announces gigant pricedrops on their Core 2 Duo-processorer. Up to 50% on some models...

Nice info:up:

RDP

[Zengaze]

I was actually gonna advise you, but took a look through the previous posts and decided the bases were covered, Sound advice in this thread, and a super article from captainHaplo-- Credits awarded for the time input bro!!
I'll Just hammer home a couple of points-
Wattage WATTage And WATTAGE!!!!!!!
And i would disagree with point made bout not needing the extra ram on your graphics card-- quite simply get a card with as much as you can--- Oh and i do this for a living-- computer engineering that is, not subsim posting :D

[Richard Zapp]

Well I upgraded to a new computer (self built) when this game come out but didn't want to spend much over $500 us.

AMD X2 4600 dual core 2.4ghz processor
Gigagyte GA-M55SLI-S4 motherboard
Gskill 2x1024mhz memory in Dual Channel
Evga 7900GS KO Pci-express video card (550/1380mhz)
550 watt (38amps) dual 12v rail power supply

Runs SH4 with max settings and no stutter......

On the box for my video card it says 450w power supply minimum.

[Snakeeyes]

You know... how hard is it to build a computer? I mean I replaced my CPU last year myself. In terms of the right drive connecting to the motherboard the right way I've never tried.

It's just that I could save so much money if I were to build it myself.

I wonder if I could do it and not end up shooting myself in the foot.

[XanderF]

Replacing a CPU properly is, by far, the most complicated operation in the construction of a PC. If you can do that, the rest of it is cake.

(Hint: most modern drives are 'Serial ATA' - it doesn't really matter what you plug in where, as the cables all run from the SATA port on the mobo straight to a drive. I suppose you want to find the SATA 1 to connect to your main disk, but...that's it. And the rest of it's nothing at all - just plugging connectors together and putting cards in slots.)

[Snakeeyes]

What about attaching the motherboard to the case? How do I know it will, well, connect or are they, standardized?

[Snakeeyes]

How does a AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.80GHz / 1MB Cache / 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) / Windsor / Dual Core / OEM / Socket AM2 / Processor compare to the Intel Dual core E6600 2.40 GHZ processor?

[fidget]

I'll tell ya. If you haven't built a system recently, you might want to try one of these build guides. Ars has a great one here with lots of options for most budgets and they always find the best quality/spec'ed parts for that configuration. Of course, you can remove parts you already have for considerable savings (like monitor, keyboard, etc.) . The good thing about this if you a new to it is that they spec the best parts for the money, giving you the exact parts and brands, plus the price of each. I'd say the core components on the 'God Box' in this guide would rock this game:

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200706.ars

[NefariousKoel]

What good graphics card would you suggest?

I'm looking at XFX PVT71PUDP3 GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 EXTREME Video Card


That's the exact vid card I'm using and my processor isn't near as fast as the E6600. I can play with the graphics cranked up all the way and get 30fps easy with the 7900GS. It's very affordable for the performance too.:rock:

[NefariousKoel]

How does a AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.80GHz / 1MB Cache / 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) / Windsor / Dual Core / OEM / Socket AM2 / Processor compare to the Intel Dual core E6600 2.40 GHZ processor?

It's a tad slower but will save you money. I'll probably be sticking with the AMDs just to save a few bucks for maybe 2% less performance on certain things.

[XanderF]

How does a AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.80GHz / 1MB Cache / 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) / Windsor / Dual Core / OEM / Socket AM2 / Processor compare to the Intel Dual core E6600 2.40 GHZ processor?

Clock-for-clock, AMD's Socket AM2 offerings are about 20% slower than Intel. So a 2.8ghz AM2 would run vaguely like a 2.2ghz Core 2 Duo. AMD's '6000+', at 3.0ghz, is largely considered bang-on equal to the 2.4ghz E6600. Which is good, as they are basically the same price. And so it goes...

(This is actually something good to consider - I know many bought top-end AMD systems back when Socket 939 was king, and felt largely crushed by Intel's Core 2 superiority in benchmarks. While it's certainly true that nothing from AMD can touch a quad-core 3.0ghz processor, a LOT of AMD's chips are still very competitive, especially for the price. For example, while being "old school" Socket 939, my 2.3ghz AMD proc is actually as fast as either the Core 2 Duo E4300 and E4400 at stock...and given that 'upgrading' to an E4400 system would run something like $500...)

[minsc_tdp]

Buy a Tuniq Tower 120 so you can OC the hell out of it. I got my E6600 to 3.6 GHz before blowing up a pair of $300 G.Skill RAM chips, and that was with a lousy 1200 RPM fan on the CPU. I got some OCZ Plat Rev.2 and they're rock solid. I've settled down at 3.0 GHz which is good enough for now, given how expensive all this was.

I'd recommend an 8800 GTS 320 MB video card if you can afford it and don't mind some driver issues. If you're not a tinkerer and are afraid of any problems, just get the most expensive 7900GT that you can.

Get a SLI compatible motherboard, maybe the NVidia 680i chipset if you can, or the cheaper 650i. If you're adventurous you can find some Intel 975X boards that can be modded to do SLI.

[NefariousKoel]

Xander is absolutely right.

If you don't want to blow the money on the highest-end hardware you can get, grab an AMD. It'll usually save you money, though the processor war goes back and forth. I'll stick with the underdog small company all things being equal. ;)

Besides, I've been a bit put off with Intel's socket LGA 775 lately. Mounting the heat sink/fan on them can be a real pain in the ass even though I like how they put the pins on the motherboard. Still, I like how easy it is locking down an AMD setup over the current Intel one much better. I fingered a few Intel 775s in the past year or so and I haven't been impressed in the least with putting that processor cooler on. For example, if you wanna upgrade your Intel cooler to a good one, you'll generally have to take your whole motherboard out since the good coolers require you to put plates on the back of the motherboard. BS.

[CaptainHaplo]

The AM2 line isnt quite dead even per clock cycle with the Dual Core Intel chips - but they have improved from the first X2 lines. Honestly - your not going to be hitting a cpu bottleneck with either AMD or Intel at the price point your looking at. Since the performance is close at price (not clock speed) - I would let the deciding factor be what vid card you choose. AMD and ATI - or Intel and Nvidia. Any performance you might lose in the initial choice is gonna be made back up if you match partners.... Of course - you mentioned upgrading - so that has to be in your mind as well - although true dual core apps (and games) really arent out yet so Quad-core optimizing is WAY off time wise.... I wouldnt worry with it personally.

Someone made a mention of overclocking. Since this is going to be your first build apparently - DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT OC'ing! Its great once you know how - but you do it wrong and you fry a 200 buck vid card that the maker wont warranty cuz you mucked it up and you wont be a happy camper! Nuff said...

As for mb's - they have standard sizes. If you have a full size "desktop" tower, then any ATX, Mini ATX or Micro ATX board will fix. Again - for simplicity sake - go standard ATX - its a bigger board - meaning you have more room to get in there and get everything plugged in right. Plus you get more slots for upgrading later as needed. Installing the board isnt an issue - just some small screws (with gasket) that hold it to the case (usually 6). Most boards today are grounded to the case thru the "backplate" (as well as the screws) that snaps in where all the ports are in the back of the box. Its easier to put the CPU and fan onto the MB before you install the board - then once its in you just have to hook up all the cables and cards. Cards are easy - you have probably done em before. Just insert and apply even force until it seats - then run in the frame screw. Memory - same even force till both latches seat on the DIMM. Then you have power cables from the power supply, they go to MB, drives, and occasionally the vid card or other addin, as well as case fans and such. Once thats done, you hook up the power, reset and LED lights from the case to the MB, USB front connectors if you got em, and your usually good to go. Occasionally a MB may have a jumper or 2 you have to move on the board itself - but thats it. Boot - go to bios and start getting setup.

If during boot there is a problem - the number, pitch and duration of the beeps will tell you whats wrong. For instance - warbling means memory isnt seated right. A constant chirp is video... etc. POST is a great tool when things dont work the first time. From there - make sure all your drives are detected - and if so - you just built yourself a PC - now install an OS on your Hard drive - (the lovely process known as a REBUILD!), get SH4 on it - patch, mod and play - then let us know how it goes!

If you need any more input - ask away - we all will help as we can.