SOS-rule club

[Thniper]

Hi to all enthusiasts of realistic subsims! (SH3 and GWX rule!):rock:

I have been reading many many threads in this forum and stumbled more than once across phrases like:
"No, I don't go for those small merchants, they don't yield enough tonnage!"

This is the point where I say: NOOOOO!!!:down:
Never ever would any Kaleun have said: "No, he's too small, let him go, we'll find something bigger!"

Therefore I SUGGEST a new rule (like DiD):
SOS: Sink on Sight (I hope this makes sense, because my English is not so good):oops:

What does it mean?
Well, it simply means that you
- have to engage every enemy ship that you have spotted by your sensors (visual, acustic, radar, etc.)
- SHOULD engage every contact report that you receive (unless out of reach)
- have to run multiple attacks on a spotted convoy (unless you are out of torpedos, your sub is severely damaged or the convoy is out of reach) - don't just take out the big ones!

This rule does NOT apply to enemy aircraft, you may crashdive anytime you want, as I always do.:D

So, I hope you'll join this exquisite club!;)

Any suggestions and improvements for the rules are welcome!:arrgh!:

[DonMarco1976]

Great idea, I am still doing it this way.

In my opinion, there are some more points:


shadow convoys till it gets night, then attack (send reports to BdU regularly)
no harbour attacks
under no circumstances attack any destroyers or corvettes; one exception: self-defense; of course large battleships are allowed
just use deck gun to sink damaged and not-sinking torpedoed ships and not to sink ships themselves; exceptions may be very small, but plausible ships (no small fishing boats)
confirm first the status of your aim (i.e. if it is an enemy)

[Hadrys]

Totally agree with u guys! A ship is a sheep :arrgh!:

Have you found any small mods that allow even more realism than stock GWX and make it even harder?

[SmokinTep]

I'll sink anything I come across.........:lol:

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Great idea Thniper!

Though I might hold off on targets of opportunity until after I've carried out BdU's assignment... unless a high-profile target, such as a carrier, crosses my path.

It wouldn't do any good to burn off all the torpedoes and be rendered useless in relation to your primary mission as assigned by BdU.:ping:

[SmokinTep]

On my way to my patrol area, I will pick and choose my targets unless I come across a convoy. After patrolling my area, everything is fair game.

[ichso]

Hehe, me in. I'm too lazy to wait for bigger ships come along anyway ;)
And I'm even not into those ~1Million BRT patrols. At my current one (Oct '40) I've already got ~29000BRTs ans 3 Torpedoes left. This is more realistic due to Torpedo failures, wrong shots because of bad weather conditions, ...

Every encounter becomes a possible target and as soon as I can identify it's nationality, I choose whether to attack or not ;).

Playing on 91% realism, because sometimes I just like to watch my boat cruising alone from the external view.:up:

SH3 1.4b, GWX 1.03

[Penelope_Grey]

I sink anything that floats as long as its enemy, even sloops!

[Sailor Steve]

Sloops aren't tonnage. I agree, though: the only time a small target of opportunity should be left alone is if a convoy has been reported and you are rushing to get to it. Even then, it's debatable.

[Heibges]

I agree, as The Bible says:

B. Preparing for the Underwater Attack.

105)

c. Never delude yourself by assuming that it is right not to attack on the instant, or not to hold onto the enemy with the utmost determination, because there may be reason to hope and believe that a better target will subsequently be found elsewhere. What you have got, you have got. Do not let such considerations give you the idea of trying to save fuel.

[Avatar]

I'm definately SOS.
Penelope, I too sink everything including sloops and fishing boats and motor boats. You never know. A high ranking official may be taking his family out on a little vacation and that's when they come across U-53. BAM!

Oh, but wait, if there is a convoy and there is bigger game, I ignore the smaller merchies.

[Thniper]

Great idea Thniper!

Though I might hold off on targets of opportunity until after I've carried out BdU's assignment... unless a high-profile target, such as a carrier, crosses my path.

It wouldn't do any good to burn off all the torpedoes and be rendered useless in relation to your primary mission as assigned by BdU.:ping:

This is an interesting point, because following your primary mission/patrol area grid is important if you want to play more "realistic".:nope:
But when I thought about this for a little while, I came to the following conclusion:

1. BdU establishes search patterns for the various uboats out at sea in order to FIND enemy convoys and sink them.
2. You are assigned one of those patrol grids in order to reach this goal.
3. If you spot a convoy on the way to your patrol grid, you've actually achieved the intended goal of the BdU - so you only have to send a contact report back home and go for it!:up:

What do you think about it?

btw, playing SH3 with GWX means for me to play as realistic as possible, therefore I try to act "historically correct" and not to exploit any bug that comes from the game or GWX.:know:
e.g. I'm not going for harbour raids, because they didn't happen in real life (with the exception of Erich Topp, but that was in the early years of war)

[Sailor Steve]

I'm definately SOS.
Penelope, I too sink everything including sloops and fishing boats and motor boats. You never know. A high ranking official may be taking his family out on a little vacation and that's when they come across U-53. BAM!

Oh, but wait, if there is a convoy and there is bigger game, I ignore the smaller merchies.
Oh, did she mean FISHING or SAILING sloops??? I was thinking Black Swan type sloops. Of course the sailing kind are fair game; that's what the deck gun was invented for.:sunny:

[hobnailboot]

I only sink a sloop If I think It has seen me and may give my position away, But any merchant from a tramp steamer up is fair game. DD I will only attack if I either have to or it is stupid enouth to sail in a streightline at short range....they are asking for it:D

I have only encouted one BB, I was out of fish:damn:

[Corsair]

It all depends on the situation and the boat I am driving... I usually only attack tramp steamers when I can use the deck gun. If you are in a type II with only a handful of fish, it's not the same as being in a IX with plenty of them... You think twice before shooting, as a tramp can sometimes take 2 or more torps - not counting possible missing or premature exploding or dud... Tonight I encountered a tramp which was already burning in heavy weather, one fish on a surface attack did the job. As I was on a IXb, it was worth it.

[firouz]

I'm into SOS :up:
But i try be be a bit real life about it (my version:D )
I don't waste Torps on a motor vessel/sloop, I use the gun. Lucky them if the weather is rough. I will leave them alone when close to enemy aircover etc, as I figure I don't want them revealing my location for the sake of a few tons.:nope:
Any escorted shipping in shallow water is safe (maybe along range night attack if conditions allow).Therefore no harbour attacks. DDs etc. will cop it if they sail alone close across my line of site - I'm human afterall...;). Otherwise I won't risk the crew on a side issue - we're there for the merchants!
I report convoys that I find and shadow them till nightfall, then attack. I don't radio in otherwise. Though I understand that after three days of no contact, the families get advised we're overdue, so maybe I'll do progress reports. Don't want mother to worry...:-?
DID.:dead:
I have found that since I got into GWX the flavour of the game has changed my play style. Thinking about what is realistic mean so much more to my enjoyment (I've finally taken up manual targeting:huh: )
Had a long successful career recently terminated because I got impatient and broke one of the above rules.
Real life rules! (and sucks) :rotfl:

[Henri II]

I agree, as The Bible says:

B. Preparing for the Underwater Attack.

105)

c. Never delude yourself by assuming that it is right not to attack on the instant, or not to hold onto the enemy with the utmost determination, because there may be reason to hope and believe that a better target will subsequently be found elsewhere. What you have got, you have got. Do not let such considerations give you the idea of trying to save fuel.

Don't know what bible this is, but that's exactly my way of thinking. The only time I don't bother is with very small ships like yachts and fishing boats in heavy weather, when I can't use the deck gun. Somehow I don't think they are worth a 40000 RM torpedo, especially since the chances for a hit are not that great in heavy weather.

[joegrundman]

The bible is the translated 1943 U-boat commanders handbook, available here

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/uboat/index.htm

[KeptinCranky]

There is one more thing to consider, It doesn't pay to attack small targets when enemy warships are within response range, Planes don't matter, that's what flak is for, but just as an example:

I was in AM36 tonight, spotted a large fishing trawler, that's 500 tons so definitely not torpedo material It was beautiful deckgun weather totally clear, moonless night and flat calm. so I decide to go to periscope depth because it's coming straight for me anyway, wait for it to be real close and then pop the boat up to the surface right next to them and open fire, just to scare them a bit more :D

But when I'm at PD I get a sonar report of 2 warships closing fast so I decide to go silent and see if those are interceptable. they were not, 2 Didos going 25 knots and looking to pass me about 7km out.

Now Imagine what would have happened if I didn't listen first, I'd be happily shelling a stupid 500 ton trawler and WHAM there's 2 Didos barreling down on me all guns blazing......:down::dead: I'd be one very sunk uboat.

so yes SOS is good but you gotta stay cautious, and I'd say don't go for every radio contact until you've reached your patrol area, it just wastes fuel. only go for the ones that are not too far out of the way and you have a reasonable chance of catching
Unless of course it's a convoy, always intercept convoys:arrgh!:

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

if i see a merchant at about 2,000 tons I use the deck gun. No sense wasting a torpedo. If the seas are rough and I cant use the gun, I let it go. On my 1st patrol of a new kaleun, becuase all my other kaluens died, I took a convoy - i saw 2 targets worth sinking. 1 fiji and 1 large merchant. one shot, one kill on both. slipped away, let the rest of the convoy go on by. the rest of the targets were less than 5 k tons. I wait 10 days for another convoy. Again, 1 large merchant, 1 fiji, then I go away. Wait 7 days, sink a small freighter with the deck gun in semi-rough weather. Another convoy. This time out, after two strikes on the convoy, I have added 6 large merchants for 60 k tons to my total. If I play this right with 190 rounds of 188mm deck gun ammo, I can get to 200,000 tons on my 1st patrol. Only thing I have is Watch Officer assistance for range and aob. Just another viewpoint to show that being frugal pays too. For example, you dont go to a dealership and take the 1st offer, you gotta haggle to get the best deal. :lol:

[Maraz]

Totally agree with u guys! A ship is a sheep :arrgh!:

Have you found any small mods that allow even more realism than stock GWX and make it even harder?

A mod allowing more realism should reduce the number of contact reports, IMHO. Actually there weren't many chances of receiving contact reports. if outside tthe Luftwaffe range. Now even in GWX I have a constant flow of contact reports, including multiple reports of convoys and even task forces doing 20 or more knots.

I think that halving the contact report probability in the campaign files would be fair.

Returning to the subject, I always attack enemy ships, even smaller ones, if I can. Once I sunk with the deck gun even a 110t motor vessel, but I wouldn't have used a torpedo for this one (if the deck gun was unavailable).

Maraz

[Thniper]

I think that halving the contact report probability in the campaign files would be fair.

Returning to the subject, I always attack enemy ships, even smaller ones, if I can. Once I sunk with the deck gun even a 110t motor vessel, but I wouldn't have used a torpedo for this one (if the deck gun was unavailable).

Maraz

I agree with you, the number of contact reports is way too high IMHO.

Concerning sinking small vessels:
Does anybody know how this subject was treated in WWII?
Did they really "waste" torpedos on small targets like jachts or junks?

[Hadrys]

Totally agree with u guys! A ship is a sheep :arrgh!:

Have you found any small mods that allow even more realism than stock GWX and make it even harder?

A mod allowing more realism should reduce the number of contact reports,

Maraz

I've found the best one... RealNav mod! Kicks ass and now I'm lost near Lerwick (I hope)

[Maraz]

Totally agree with u guys! A ship is a sheep :arrgh!:

Have you found any small mods that allow even more realism than stock GWX and make it even harder?
A mod allowing more realism should reduce the number of contact reports,

Maraz
I've found the best one... RealNav mod! Kicks ass and now I'm lost near Lerwick (I hope)
Yes, I know the Real Nav mod, but I am planning to try it later (I am still in my 1st career in SH3-GWX). Surely it demands much more time, because one cannot travel carelessly at 1024x anymore.

Luckily I learnt how to use the KM wheel so I don't need anymore the map to plot and calculate my firing solution, that was another reason for not trying the real nav mod...

Maraz

[Hadrys]

Luckily I learnt how to use the KM wheel so I don't need anymore the map to plot and calculate my firing solution, that was another reason for not trying the real nav mod...

Could you give me some info about that KM Wheel? I've read about it but have no idea what exactly is it... it seems helpful.

PS I'm just digging through the code of RealNav to fit it with GWX. It's not GWX ready by default.

[KeptinCranky]

Finished a SOS patrol just now. took out 23 ships, half of those were small fry like trawlers and fishing boats, deckgunned those (I ignored schooners and sloops), also 2 DDs that just came uncomfortably close about 8 small merchants, 2 coastal tankers, a tugboat and 2 large merchants, total of 56139 GRT, had only 2 eels left by the time I got to AM53, which is convoy alley. I don't think BDU would be too happy with me, I did get to my patrol area but did not have the means to do any significant damage there. :nope: big nono they send me there for a reason...

from now on I'll use shoot on sight after I've reached my assigned area :D

[Thniper]

Finished a SOS patrol just now. took out 23 ships, half of those were small fry like trawlers and fishing boats, deckgunned those (I ignored schooners and sloops), also 2 DDs that just came uncomfortably close about 8 small merchants, 2 coastal tankers, a tugboat and 2 large merchants, total of 56139 GRT, had only 2 eels left by the time I got to AM53, which is convoy alley. I don't think BDU would be too happy with me, I did get to my patrol area but did not have the means to do any significant damage there. :nope: big nono they send me there for a reason...

from now on I'll use shoot on sight after I've reached my assigned area :D

Wow! 56139 GRT!:o
I never get that much, usually around 20k - 30k, if the wheather is fine.
At least one third of my eels I send into the void, I think I have to practise manual TDC a lot more.:hmm:

My last patrol ended in the vicinity of Lerwick harbour.:cry:
I was deckgunning a small merchant when suddenly I heard toooo familiar sounds of bombs dropping near by me, I guess I missed the aircraft warning message in the heat of battle!:damn:

The next stupid thing I did was that I didn't crashdive instantly but had a look around by pressing F4. The next thing I saw was a bomb going straight for me (at least too fast to pause game and take a screenshot)...:damn: :damn:
Whammmm! That was a good one!
...then everything turns red.

Good bye, Kapitän Leonard, I'll miss ya!

[Maraz]

Could you give me some info about that KM Wheel? I've read about it but have no idea what exactly is it... it seems helpful.


It's a circular slide rule, designed and optimized for calculations needed by a submarine commander (AOB, target course and speed, etc.)

Here you can download the printable wheel (made by Hitman)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351

Here you find instructions about how to use it (instructions apply to the US model but the Kriegsmarine model is almost the same)
http://www.hnsa.org/doc/attackfinder/index.htm

It's quite helpful and allows you some different methods for calculating your firing solution without plotting anything on the map

Cheers
Maraz

[Hadrys]

It's a circular slide rule, designed and optimized for calculations needed by a submarine commander (AOB, target course and speed, etc.)


Wooow this small piece of equipment sure was missing on my boat!!!

Big thx, I'll give it a go ASAP but first need to find any targets in that storm...

[KeptinCranky]

Admittedly this was in december 39 when things are still fairly easy, and the deckgun helps a lot. also this is not manual targeting,:oops: all the rest of the realism is on though. Type VIIb sub

also only using 1 eel per ship and finsihing them off with the deckgun (if needed) helps a lot :arrgh!: even for the large Merchants. those usually only need one eel

[Thniper]

Admittedly this was in december 39 when things are still fairly easy, and the deckgun helps a lot. also this is not manual targeting,:oops: all the rest of the realism is on though. Type VIIb sub

also only using 1 eel per ship and finsihing them off with the deckgun (if needed) helps a lot :arrgh!: even for the large Merchants. those usually only need one eel

Try playing with manual TDC, it's a lot more thrilling!!!:rock:

Right after buying the game the first patrols I made were without manual TDC and they started to become boring, because I heaped up way too much tonnage compared to historical achievements made by real Kaleuns.:-?

Then I started patrols using manual TDC and it was an entirely new game!
Though it was a long and stony way to get used to it ... even right now I am still learning, but it's worth it!

Try it out and don't give up too fast!:yep:
btw I started learning by setting up little training missions with the editor.

Happy hunting!

[KeptinCranky]

oh, I've done manual targeting, but I don't do it all the time, bit too tedious for my tastes, I'm not a total realism sim-nut all the time:D It is however the only realism option (except for external camera) that I turn off, I've been playing with everything off except manual targeting from the beginning.

It varies per career this one is my gung ho-Kaleun. started out attacking Polish Harbors in september 39, then for the second patrol I went all the way around England :arrgh!: and the 3rd patrol I went past Scapa, between the Scottish mainland and the Hebrides sinking anything in my path (except silly schooners and sloops)

for the fourth patrol I've been sent back to AM53, don't know how I'll take that on this time, I'll see when i get back from work tonight:D