Dealing with Somali pirates

[The Avon Lady]

Someone has this historically familiar suggestion (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/06/q-ships-for-somali-coast.html) to make, as this method (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-06-06-us-navy-pirates_N.htm?csp=34) isn't always working.

[Jimbuna]

Now that is a form of 'entrapment' I would support :rock: :up:

[Happy Times]

I support, 12,7 and 7,62 machineguns with different ammunition would stop the raids.:up:

[TteFAboB]

Yes, we used to load the broadsides of merchants with cannons. But machine-guns may still leave you vulnerable to return fire. Besides from those, perhaps you could carry 5 of these in a stabilized platform to start hitting them before they can hit you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJp14tkBlU

[Happy Times]

Yes, we used to load the broadsides of merchants with cannons. But machine-guns may still leave you vulnerable to return fire. Besides from those, perhaps you could carry 5 of these in a stabilized platform to start hitting them before they can hit you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJp14tkBlU

I thought of that too but wasnt sure how it works in ships. Everything has to be easy to train for the crews. The NSV is cheap and easy to train, range 2000m, penetration with armored piercing round is over 2cm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYVW-yLsjQ

[Spoon 11th]

Cannon from the CV 9040 would be adequate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4

[The Avon Lady]

I would think the safest bet on a non-stable boat would be a pray-and-spray chain gun, as found on Apache helicopters and similar. But I'm just guessing.

[Skybird]

Cannon from the CV 9040 would be adequate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4

Hear hear! :lol: Some guys watch funny videos about the CV9040 - I board it myself and make the countryside unsafe when loading the Beasts of Steel! ;) :up:

They don't make much, but when the Swedish makes some new toys for war, they often show up with spectacular good equipement on the ground, on and below the seas, and in the air. Their Gripen fighters and their stealth frigates are excellent designs, so are their conventional subs, and the CV9040 series is the best IFV in the world currently, imho.

The 40mm cannon makes it he most heavily armed and armoured IFV there is. It eats Marders and Bradleys for breakfast.

[Heibges]

This bad boy has been used before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4418748.stm

[The Avon Lady]

This bad boy has been used before.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4418748.stm
So have these:

http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1388/earplugstg0.jpg

In the meantime, things have gone from bad to worse (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/06/pirates-demand-ransom-for-danish-seamen.html). :cry:

Makes the Finns in Iran look like happy tourists. :roll:

[Camaero]

I don't know... I know they are the bad guys, but I just like pirates. It is kind of sad. They went from owning the seas in those great, beautiful wooden sail ships, with big cannons, to zipping around in their little sissy boats.

Oh well...

http://www.oceanworldonline.com/giftshop/images/Pirate%20flag%20beatings.JPG

[Skybird]

Send the ransom via Mach-3 air express delivery. We must stop to always negotiate with gangsters and criminals. This is how we ensure that the habit of kidnapping people will go on. Instead we should cause tghem bloody noses, and have our civilian traffic evading areas of such risks. If tourism is suffering from that, or trading - I'm so sorry.

But local governments and people are free to adress the cause of that.

[joea]

Send the ransom via Mach-3 air express delivery. We must stop to always negotiate with gangsters and criminals. This is how we ensure that the habit of kidnapping people will go on. Instead we should cause tghem bloody noses, and have our civilian traffic evading areas of such risks. If tourism is suffering from that, or trading - I'm so sorry.

But local governments and people are free to adress the cause of that.


:yep::yep::yep:

Go Q-ships as well!!!

[d@rk51d3]

Q-Ships sprang to my mind as well........


.... and a handfull of midget subs close in tow.:arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Q ships are still my preferred option :yep: At least that way they don't come back a second time wearing ear protectors :lol:

[Skybird]

Why making the issue long-lasting and complicated and accept unneeded vulnerabilities - by using Q-ships? Surveillance by using subs and/or airborne patrols and/or radar, scanning the radios for emergency calls - and have a patrol of fast-movers with appropriate area-covering ammunition on the ready to comensate for the speed and agility of small motorboats. Plus no more trade transports and no more tourist trafficking in threatened areas.

I do not know if somalia needs goods and tourists from the West :x . But the West certainly do not need any trading with Somalia. In other words: they want more from us than we want from them. We should stop to always pump investements into corrupt regimes and places that are hostile to us. Developement aide is nice and well, but we do not make sure that we only invest into structures where not such ridiculous shares of our money is disappearing in questionable sources and corrupt criminals who think developement aide is their personal banking account. Civilian knowledge transfer and assistance in raising corrupt-free administrative structures may prove to be mor eimportant than just an unlimited flow of money.

Precondition of course is that the national private and business donors investing in such projects also act by non-corrupt, non-selfish motives - and this all to often is not the case. Too often we just help to turn them into lucrative adressees of our economical interests. that way we may not cause the wide-spread corruption in Africa, which has a long history and deep roots and has something to do with tribal culture and mentality, but we assist it, sometimes directly, sometims indirectly. And accepting that does not give us any honourable credit.

Where there is a local tradition that tribes kidnap foreigners to settle inter-tribal disputes, or put the county's central government under pressure, or use this practice as a source of financial incomes, I only can say: no westerner and no tourist is forced to visit such places. You are free to stay out of such places. Governments should be freed from the legal obligations to take responseblity for the deeds of private persons travelling in foreign countries. there is a responsebility to inform people of the risks before they travel, and it could be formed into a more legally binding law - but that is it, imo.

[Zacho]

Cannon from the CV 9040 would be adequate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKdwuOxYRI4
Hear hear! :lol: Some guys watch funny videos about the CV9040 - I board it myself and make the countryside unsafe when loading the Beasts of Steel! ;) :up:

They don't make much, but when the Swedish makes some new toys for war, they often show up with spectacular good equipement on the ground, on and below the seas, and in the air. Their Gripen fighters and their stealth frigates are excellent designs, so are their conventional subs, and the CV9040 series is the best IFV in the world currently, imho.

The 40mm cannon makes it he most heavily armed and armoured IFV there is. It eats Marders and Bradleys for breakfast.


BMP-3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-3
It is armed with a 100mm main gun, which can fire conventional HE-Frag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive) shells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29) or AT-10 Stabber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-10_Stabber) ATGMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATGM), a 30mm autocannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon), and a 7.62mm machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun), all mounted coaxially in the turret. There are also two 7.62mm bow machine guns.

and for the pirates

AK-306

A derivatives of AK-630M was developed for light craft and this system was named as AK-306. Externally, there was no difference between AK-306 and AK-630 guns, but internally instead of using the exhaust to power the automatics, the AK-306 (A-219) used electricity. This version also lacked radar control, being only optically guided, hence making it less of an anti-missile weapon and more of a surface-to-surface weapon, and the designation of the overall system is consequently changed from A-213-Vympel-A to A-219. The design started in 1974 and the system was accepted into service in 1980. When production completed in 1986, 125 systems entered service.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630

[Skybird]

BMP-3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-3
It is armed with a 100mm main gun, which can fire conventional HE-Frag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive) shells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29) or AT-10 Stabber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-10_Stabber) ATGMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATGM), a 30mm autocannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon), and a 7.62mm machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun), all mounted coaxially in the turret. There are also two 7.62mm bow machine guns.

Damn, you could be right there, I completely oversaw this thing. I was also wrongly assuming all the time that the BMP3 is equipped with EITHER the 100mm, OR the 30 mm. :damn: Although the 100mm has no kinteic ammunitions (Sabot) available, it seems (Sabot reserved for the 30mm, while the 100mm fires HE fragmentation rounds or AT-missiles), it spunds as if it still is mean enough to be capable to give even a MBT a difficult day at the office.

[Spoon 11th]

Hear hear! :lol: Some guys watch funny videos about the CV9040
Indeed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okly05HmKEA

[Ishmael]

Why not go with tried and true technology. Put one or two of these on merchant ships. Accurate to within a foot square radius circle at 1000 yds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsnhyTiTqk4

[Jimbuna]

Aye....one forrad and one aft :arrgh!:

[The Avon Lady]

Danish hostages still being held (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/07/gossip-mongers-in-denmark.html). :down:

[Jimbuna]

Hoping for a safe return :yep:

[The Avon Lady]

Hoping for a safe return :yep:
Safely returned for a $1.5 million ransom (http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/08/danica-white-has-been-released.html).

Expect a lot more of the same now. :down:

[Jimbuna]

Great to see they're safe :sunny: The downside is, every bad basum over there will now feel encouraged to copycat for what they'll see as rich pickings :nope:

[antikristuseke]

BMP-3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-3
It is armed with a 100mm main gun, which can fire conventional HE-Frag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_explosive) shells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_%28projectile%29) or AT-10 Stabber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT-10_Stabber) ATGMs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATGM), a 30mm autocannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocannon), and a 7.62mm machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun), all mounted coaxially in the turret. There are also two 7.62mm bow machine guns.



While the BMP-3 has stronger armament, its marmour resembles that of a wet paper bag more than an IFV.

As for the idea of using Q ships, i supose it could work prety well if they were properly armed. Good that the hostages are free, but there should be no deals with hostage takers, even if it means hostage casualties. I know it is harsh and cold of me to say this and i would probably feel differently if it was someone i cared about in that situation, but if deals are made such behaviour will continue.

[JALU3]

For a ship to fly a flag of a nation, is for that nation to assume responsibility for the actions of that ship, the safety if it, and to have its laws applied to it . . . regardless of where it goes. This is why the Union Jack use to be so important . . . at one time to fly it was to have the backing of the RN if need arise.

Its still a crime to fly a foreign nations flag under false pretenses on the high seas, and thus strips that nation of certain rights.

As for the Somalia Pirate problem . . . the pirate problem is found elsewhere where you have narrow straits that run along important trade routes, but in Somalia (even after the Ethiopian Intervention), things are different. For wide swaths of land remain outside of the law of the government, thus allowing lawless groups to flourish freely within their borders. Warnings by multiple sources have been issued regarding the Horn of Africa specificially, and other straits that should be considered dangerous. Small Arms training is stressed more often . . . but sometimes it isn't enough.

This is why there are some counties which have banded together to form multi-national task force to combat against piracy.

I guess we are to return to the days where nations keep African Squadrons to protect their merchant vessels.

[Jimbuna]

This is why the Union Jack use to be so important . . . at one time to fly it was to have the backing of the RN if need arise.
I guess we are to return to the days where nations keep African Squadrons to protect their merchant vessels.


I can't see the RN ever having the power to do that again :nope:

Only hope I'm wrong :hmm:

[HMCS]

They should be doing this in the Phillipine Sea and anywhere else pirates operate.

How does one go about signing on a Q ship?

Make the bastards into fish food, I say.

[Jimbuna]

They should be doing this in the Phillipine Sea and anywhere else pirates operate.

How does one go about signing on a Q ship?

Make the bastards into fish food, I say.

What have you got against fish ? :lol: