Looking for Great joystick.

[Seth8530]

Hey, im looking for a new joystick one that will last. im looking to spend around 100$ on it so feel free to suggest lavishness....

here is one that i have been looking at.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102507

Pretty cool Ehh!

im open to suggestions.:D

[fatty]

The X52 is great. I think Saitek is putting out a new HOTAS soon (or maybe they already did) so be on the lookout for a price drop.

[Letum]

The X52 would be my first recommendation in that price range.
The X52 pro is a little better.
Both sticks have some minor problems however and have some reliability issues, especially with the non-essential trim wheels. There is a force feedback x52 planned in a year or two. The sticks lacks a wide base too, so you may have problems if you dont have a good desk to put it on.

If you can get a SidewinderForceFeedback 2 second hand than that is the king of sticks. They don't make them any more and prices have sky-rocketed. They are first class, but a little bulky and lack fancy features.

I use a logitech Extreme 3dpro, it is a mediocre stick with poor ergonomics and reliability issues, but I recommend it as a cheaper stick.

[Chock]

I've got one of these:

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/cyborg_evo.htm

but the spring is a bit stiff and it has lights all over it which (unless you like that kind of thing) is sort of annoying.

This one, with twin throttles, looks interesting:

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/av8r.htm

This is cool if you want something that looks like you ripped it out of an F-16

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/j_fighter_usb.html

However, if you prefer Cessnas, this is your best bet:

http://www.chproducts.com/retail/y_fsyusb.html

I had the earlier versions of the one you've been looking at (i.e. the X35 and X36) and I wasn't impressed with the build quality, they all broke, very quickly, typically the rudder control went on them and the joystick's centre tended to drift a lot too. I'm told the newer version is better made and performs well however, but I don't know that for sure, not having had one of the newer ones myself.

Anyway, the fact that all the ones I had broke, means that I personally tend to think twice before handing over 100-plus notes for a Joystick.

People tend to be very partisan when it comes to flight controllers, a bit like the ATI versus NVidia arguments, so I'd take all suggestions (including mine) with a healthy dose of salt and pick what you yourself prefer.

One last suggestion: Oddly enough, if you like flying helicopters, you might try a 'playstation-style' joypad. with effectively two joysticks on them, they are spectacularly good for flying choppers in sims, and although it seems odd at first, even a cheap one willl make flying a chopper a breeze.

:D Chock

[Letum]

I fell sorry for you with the CyborgEvo. I have used one of those and really hated it, even after I blacked out the lights.

Like the X35 and X36, the x52 does suffer from poor build quality. The rudder is not reliable and the trim weels oftern brake. However it is still one of the best sticks out there.

Avoid cheep Saiteks like the plauge, the more expensive ones like the x52 and x52 pro are good sticks tho.

[CCIP]

I prefer cheaper Saiteks to Logitechs by a long shot. Might have just been my experience. Owned two of each, and the Logitechs failed me big time while both Saiteks are still pretty well in working condition.

[Letum]

I prefer cheaper Saiteks to Logitechs by a long shot. Might have just been my experience. Owned two of each, and the Logitechs failed me big time while both Saiteks are still pretty well in working condition.
Wich ones?

[CCIP]

My current one is the Cyborg Evo; for Logitech I had Wingman 3D.

Haven't had much of a problem with the Cyborg Evo nor my previous one the model number of which I don't remember off the top of my head.

[PeriscopeDepth]

I have a Saitek X-52 and love it.

PD

[Jimbuna]

Permit someone to vote for the 'Logitech Extreme 3D Pro' :lol:

Some of the GWX crew (myself included) use this when they're flying...and speak highly of it :up:

[XabbaRus]

I have a Cyborg Evo and love it.

Hard wearing and solid.

Letum why do you have a problem with it? The lights make it easier to play in a dim room.

[Letum]

I have a Cyborg Evo and love it.

Hard wearing and solid.

Letum why do you have a problem with it? The lights make it easier to play in a dim room.

I find the spring causes the stick to jerk a little when you move it off center. The throttle died on me a few weeks after. The trigger piviot snapped through plastic fatiuge. The lights distract me if I use it in a dim room. The shaft of the stick was too narrow for my hand. Sevral other people in my IL2 community have had the same problems. :doh:

[Heibges]

I have the CH Fighterstick, and it is still going strong after 3+ years.

I also have the CH ProPedals, and these are 3+ years old and still solid as a rock.

[Fish]

Hey, im looking for a new joystick one that will last. im looking to spend around 100$ on it so feel free to suggest lavishness....

here is one that i have been looking at.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102507

Pretty cool Ehh!

im open to suggestions.:D

110 dollar, what a thieves here in the Netherlands, the cheapest shop asks 131 euro, thats 176 dollar. :down:

[SUBMAN1]

I wouldn't trade my Cougar for anything! Solid metal construction, 22 lbs weight, and its internals are easily seriviceable meaning I can't keep it operating even if TM bites the dust! That's not going to happen, but still, I don't need them for warranty support. Had this joystick for a couple years now and still love it!

http://www.kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/4705.jpg

ANyway, I guess if you plan to use it for a lot of flying, than this is the joystick to have. It is a little more pricey though at $270 for the pair, but it is worth every penny. I also have a set of RCS rudder pedals which are also all metal construction, but those are much harder to find:

http://home.arcor.de/S.Kohlmann/joystick/rcs.jpg

[tycho102]

http://tron-chaser.net/images2/m_gravis_firebird2.jpg

Best. Joystick. Evar.

As for current models, for me, nothing has ever quite matched the Firebird 2. Either you can't fully program all the buttons, there's not enough, it's not as ergonomic.

Take the hat. I never used it for viewing because it was just far more useful as something else. So a stick that doesn't allow you to keyboard program the hat is worthless (worth less than the Firebird 2, to be specific).

Plus the Firebird had about 17 "buttons", if you don't count the diagonals on the hat. You couldn't "shift" a button to make all the others have different functionality, but current joysticks with the "shift" capability wind up having about 13 buttons, and not all of those buttons are fully programmable. Partially programmable buttons makes baby Jesus weep.

*cough*

I'd also like something that doesn't quite look like it belongs in an aircraft cockpit. Keep the planes with the planes and the computer joysticks with the computer joysticks. Rudder pedals are ok, but they'd need some slipstream feedback to be any good.

[SUBMAN1]

http://tron-chaser.net/images2/m_gravis_firebird2.jpg

Best. Joystick. Evar.

As for current models, for me, nothing has ever quite matched the Firebird 2. Either you can't fully program all the buttons, there's not enough, it's not as ergonomic.

Take the hat. I never used it for viewing because it was just far more useful as something else. So a stick that doesn't allow you to keyboard program the hat is worthless (worth less than the Firebird 2, to be specific).

Plus the Firebird had about 17 "buttons", if you don't count the diagonals on the hat. You couldn't "shift" a button to make all the others have different functionality, but current joysticks with the "shift" capability wind up having about 13 buttons, and not all of those buttons are fully programmable. Partially programmable buttons makes baby Jesus weep.

*cough*

I'd also like something that doesn't quite look like it belongs in an aircraft cockpit. Keep the planes with the planes and the computer joysticks with the computer joysticks. Rudder pedals are ok, but they'd need some slipstream feedback to be any good.
It can't hold a candle to the COugar! It is kind of interesting to look at the joystick panel in XP and see 32 buttons! And that doesn't include the wheels, or even the secondary joystick! The throttle has a second full joystick within a joystick! You can program that second joystick to be used as a mouse if you want to as well.

Then we get into shifting - with 4 ways to shift, depending on whether S3 is pushed, or what position the dogfight switch is in, or even a combination of shifts, start getting the calculator out and figuring out how many total, fully programmable in shift mode, buttons your have. Virtually unlimited is the answer.

-S

[Seth8530]

I kinda changed my mind on what I want, I want the Best Force Feedback joystick for no more than $130, so im looking for somthing like 100-120.

It has to be force feedback.

[Letum]

I kinda changed my mind on what I want, I want the Best Force Feedback joystick for no more than $130, so im looking for somthing like 100-120.

It has to be force feedback.
Thats tough. There really are not any great FFb sticks out atm.

What ever you do; NEVER buy the Saiteks Wingman FFB sticks.


Also, make sure you know the diffrance between a true Force Feedback stick and a "rumble" FFB stick.

[Chock]

You might want to consider this instead of a FFB stick:

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Gamer_home.html

:D Chock

[Seth8530]

You might want to consider this instead of a FFB stick:

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Gamer_home.html

:D Chock
unfotanityly.... no

[Sailor Steve]

I agree. The ButtKicker looks like a cool add-on, but after everything else is in place.

[SUBMAN1]

I agree. The ButtKicker looks like a cool add-on, but after everything else is in place.

I think it would mess up your game, especially in a deathmatch or CTF scenario. SOmeone shoots you and screws up your aim - nice.

-S

[Sailor Steve]

SOmeone shoots you and screws up your aim - nice.
Realistic isn't nice? Of course you're talking about online play, and unless everybody has one you're being cheated.

Turn it off?

[Chock]

I'm definitely going to try one of those Buttkickers myself.

What appeals to me is the fact that it would appear to emulate (certainly in flight sims) the real thing more effectively: those of you who are real pilots will know that (for example) the pre-stall buffet you feel from the disturbed airflow on the elevators, is generally felt through your ass rather than from simply the stick shaking a bit (airliners of course use a digitally emulated stick shake to convey it, but I'm talking about 'seat of the pants' flying here). And I don't want my stick shaking around unrealistically in an attempt to convey a high angle of attack airflow buffet when I'm trying to aim at a dodging and weaving Fokker Dr1! And anyone who's ever flown through the slipstream of a prop aircraft they are following will know that what you feel is not your stick 'shaking about a bit'.

I'm hoping that the Buttkicker will convey the (really quite violent) buffetting you get from thermals when in a glider in the sim 'Condor', if it does that, I think it would add tremendously to the feeling of being there.

Not everyone's cup of tea of course, but as Sailor Steve points out, you could turn it off, and the responses to this thread have tended to confirm my earlier post which remarked that people are generally as partisan when it comes to joysticks as they are about graphics cards and processors.

:D Chock

[FIREWALL]

Saitek offers remanufactored controllers at BIG saveings if you want highend stuff.

I got my x52 over 2 years ago works great with alot of use. Got the rudders awhile back and they work fine. I wish I had known about the reman. stuff when i got them .I couldv'e saved half price. And warrenty included.

Check it out before you layout your cash.:)

[Heibges]

I agree. The ButtKicker looks like a cool add-on, but after everything else is in place.

I agree too. I would go:

1. Joystick
2. Track IR
3. Peddles
4. Throttle

[Letum]

I agree. The ButtKicker looks like a cool add-on, but after everything else is in place.
I agree too. I would go:

1. Joystick
2. Track IR
3. Peddles
4. Throttle


I have home made versions of all 4.

Im currently working on Letum Pedals MkII and Letum IR 6DOF



Old pic:
http://www.b3tards.com/u/57a418c694bc7c6296b3/led.jpg

[tycho102]

It can't hold a candle to the COugar!

Don't have much interest in the throttle component. The one time I pulled up a F-18 simulator it was close enough and that was about it for flight sims, for me.

What all can you do with just the stick? How many buttons/switches are on just the stick? Are they all fully programmable macros, including delay?

[Heibges]

I agree. The ButtKicker looks like a cool add-on, but after everything else is in place.
I agree too. I would go:

1. Joystick
2. Track IR
3. Peddles
4. Throttle


I have home made versions of all 4.

Im currently working on Letum Pedals MkII and Letum IR 6DOF



Old pic:
http://www.b3tards.com/u/57a418c694bc7c6296b3/led.jpg


That is sweet. I some pics of a guy who made a spitfire cockpit with working gauges.

[FIREWALL]

Don't worry SETH 8530 we will get back to your topic about a joystick for about $120.00 ... Someday :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Wim Libaers]

Don't worry SETH 8530 we will get back to your topic about a joystick for about $120.00 ... Someday :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

That's a bit less than the price of the CH Fighterstick. Unfortunately, in combination with the throttle and pedals, things get a bit more expensive.

The CH sticks are very configurable though, lots of mapping options and shift combinations. If your needs are more sophisticated, the CH config utility even includes a simple programming language that allows for very sophisticated mappings. For example, a sim where only one brake axis is modeled, and you want to have a simulated axis that is the average of both physical pedal axes? Easy to do with the CH software, once you learn the programming language. They also have excellent support, and on the forum at http://www.ch-hangar.com/ it's easy to find help with the programming.

[Tchocky]

I've got a Cyborg Force 3D, not bad for the price

[Seth8530]

Well peddels are nice but i dont want them now. So yall reckon the x-52 is the highest qualito one out their? I dont need a ton of buttons. cause i wont use em most likely. I could spend 150$ TOPS but i realy realy only want to spend around 120 Tops.

[Reaves]

Prepare to worship the greatest joystick ever! Anyone with a differant opinion is a Schultz. (Knows nothing)

http://www.abbuc.de/files/abbuc/joy.jpg

[FIREWALL]

Prepare to worship the greatest joystick ever! Anyone with a differant opinion is a Schultz. (Knows nothing)

http://www.abbuc.de/files/abbuc/joy.jpg:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Jimbuna]

Prepare to worship the greatest joystick ever! Anyone with a differant opinion is a Schultz. (Knows nothing)

http://www.abbuc.de/files/abbuc/joy.jpg

A disc spindle? :hmm:
:lol:

[Seth8530]

Well i belive im going to go get a refurbished x-52 for half the price thanks yall!

[moose1am]

I too like the CH Product's Fight Control Equipment. They are ruggedly made. I have a set of the pedals and the CH Products Flight Stick which is rather old technology these days. I got it back in 1993 or so.

I also have a Microsoft Precision Pro Joystick and Two MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Joysticks that I use with my flight Sims. With Fighter Ace 3.9 v you can program this joystick to use ANY TWO BUTTON Combinations at one time. This means that any of the 8 buttons can be used in combination with any of the other 8 buttons which gives me plenty of options to use for various functions. FA has a lot of neat programming features that makes this game very adaptable to any joystick. I found other games joystick programming very confusing and difficult. AH's joystick programming for the hat was hard to get working. They had a bug that would not let me program my hat on my joystick right. I sent them an email asking that to be fixed and they never responded. I use to be able to talk directly with the Man who developed FA back in 1999. He answered my emails personally and still helps his customers to this day via a dedicated group of volunteers and paid staff that are second to none when it comes to getting you going in the game. The only problem with this game, FA , is that it caters to the kids more than the adults. By that I mean the dummy the flight modeling to eliminate spins and other physical factors that real aircraft pilots have to deal with. I prefer a more realistic type flight modeling. And I hated the way the planes all lagged in AH when you get to within a certain range of another airplane. The other air plane would always skip across my screen about 500 yards or more when I got within a certain range of them. That's very annoying to me. I never had that experience with FA. In FA you do get lag from time to time but not that often. But in AH I got lag every time I encountered another virtual airplane. I don't believe it was due to my Internet connection either as I have tried different connection and ISP's over the years and always got the same thing in AH. Lag at the critical range in all my head to head encounters. I even had this when I flew in AH with my former FA squad members. It's something that I also saw in Dogfigher Software.

The Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback Joystick is made strongly but it's buttons tend to wear out. I have to take buttons off one stick to add to the other stick's circuit board. And that's not an easy task to perform. I wonder if using the new Cold Fusion Soldering Iron as advertised on TV would help make this soldering job easier? LOL



I have the CH Fighterstick, and it is still going strong after 3+ years.

I also have the CH ProPedals, and these are 3+ years old and still solid as a rock.

[SUBMAN1]

It can't hold a candle to the COugar!
Don't have much interest in the throttle component. The one time I pulled up a F-18 simulator it was close enough and that was about it for flight sims, for me.

What all can you do with just the stick? How many buttons/switches are on just the stick? Are they all fully programmable macros, including delay?
THis stick has a Mil rating and is identical to an F-16 block 52 actual throttle and stick. That is why all the functionality exists - its an exact duplicate.

Let me count. 28 programmable buttons on the stick. Macros as long as you want them. Precise delays as well that can be set in milliseconds. You can have a macro run, wait a specified amount of time, then run another different macro, and keep running different macros that you programmed in until you release the button. Its endless how long you can make them.

One thing about the Cougar is that is has an onboard CPU and RAM. It is essentially a computer itself. Most normal sticks are dumb and rely on software for programming. SOme things you can do with it for example is if you want to send actual keyboard RAW codes to the system, you can, and your computer will not know that it is not you pressing on the actual keyboard. If you want to make your buttons all direct x buttons, you can. Anything you can imagine, you can make the stick do.

In the old days, on the FLCS, you had to learn its programming language. You can still program in the language of the stick if you want to today, but it also comes with a software program called Foxy that will do it for you now. You tell it what you want the stick to do, and Foxy will write the code for you - then you just upload it to the stick. This is designed for lazy or impatient people! :p

On the throttle - you want the throttle. It is a work of art unto itself. Besides, when you buy a Cougar, it comes with the throttle. The throttle has a ton of functionality built in as well. I could go on all day about what you can make it do, but I think you only cared about the stick for now.

-S

PS. Something is also to be said for wrapping your hands around cold steel when you get ready to play a sim. It just feels right instead of plastic garbage as found on every other stick. Even the buttons are made out of steel.

[Konovalov]

PS. Something is also to be said for wrapping your hands around cold steel when you get ready to play a sim. It just feels right instead of plastic garbage as found on every other stick. Even the buttons are made out of steel.

I agree with every single word written by Subman1 on the Cougar. I have been the owner of one since about 2002 and I would't trade it for anything else. My only complaint with that beautiful steel throttle and stick is that on a winters day here in the UK I worry my hand almost turns blue as the Thrusty Cougar is so cold to the touch.

Also the Cougar doubles as a very expensive anti-burglar device. If someone broke into my home I would throw the throttle at them. A direct hit with one of these and the crook will be in a coma for years. :lol:

So yeah, get the Cougar. :up: