Invisible at night desks awash!

[MarkShot]

SH3 1.4b/GWX 1.03

So far, I have been doing submerged attack practice runs and have a fair feeling for how detectable I am.

I decided to research detection under night conditions with a custom mission and the stealth meter. Here I approach a Tribal Destroyer at 3KTS decks awash (7M); calm seas. As you can see, I am quite literally invisible. I have approached within 100M and only a love tap from the flak gun will get its crew's attention. Until radar makes its appearance, I imagine this is going to have nasty consequences for convoys.

Submerged they can pick me up around 1000M in calm seas. Awash I am a ghost ship. This means that I can strike with impunity. Even if everyone is armed, it doesn't matter if they cannot see me. I can dive to escape after attack. However, it is more likely that I can simply creep off until I break 3000M. At which point, I can right up 18KTS and pull away rearm.

It's going to be a turkey shoot.

Screenshot from the awash test.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/markshot/tempimages/invis.jpg

[CapZap1970]

Thanks a lot for the info.:o
Got to try this right away.
CapZap

[d@rk51d3]

In real life, quite often the only way a sub was spotted on the surface at night was due to excessive speed, or an attempt to dive. It was quite normal to be passed by an NME vessel, unnoticed. As long as the captain kept his cool, the U-boat was usually quite safe.

[bigboywooly]

Yep decks awash has been mentioned before as the way to conduct night attacks
Your profile is lower and as long as speed isnt excessive they dont know you are there

Once passed a Br DD at about 200m
We were on converging courses
I missed the " ship spotted " as was out of the room
Came back to see him steaming merrily past

:rotfl:

[Canovaro]

groundbreaking stuff imo :up:

[KeptinCranky]

Okay, I've tried this too, been quite succesfull but that picture is ridiculous :D:rotfl:

The first time those guys on the destroyer will notice your precense is when they've litterally plowed into you and are sinking as a result :D

I mean, green crews, possibly, sleeping on watch, maybe, it being trafalgar day and the whole crew being drunk, only on a specific date....but damn, those guys should be able to hear your diesels going chugga chugga...gurgle....chugga chugga... everytime the exhaust gets flooded.:nope:

edit: avatar WTF :D

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

...As you can see, I am quite literally invisible...



well... i was fully surfaced when waiting on a convoy...
it was dark and good weather (0 wind and such)
when the convoy poped up (bernard was late again) it was a shock...
as a great horror to me it was a convoy with hunt III DD's and a BB in the midle...
was to late to do a crash dive or trying to escape... so i said "well men... it was good to know you... blablabla" and awayted sudden death... got thirsty and went to the kitchen to get a coffee... when i got back i almoast fainted when i saw the convoy was passing me... i was in the middle and no one spotted me :doh:. even the crew of the BB (wich hit my bow and just sailed on) didnt see me ...when safely out of distance i repaired my sub and continued the hunt...

[Jimbuna]

Okay, I've tried this too, been quite succesfull but that picture is ridiculous

Speaking of ridiculous pictures!!! Have a look at your avatar :rotfl: :rotfl:

[MarkShot]

I made that as a custom mission with a veteran DD crew.

The reason I pointed this out is that I also find it kind of bizarra that you can literally close to boarding distance in this mode. How is it that if the boat is 1M deeper running electric that they can pick me up at 1,000M, but 1M shallow and running on diesel I have the stealthiest sub that ever sailed?

It does seem a bit over the top to me even though early war attacks were at night on the surface. Oh, please don't shoot me, but I am going to mention AOD again. Night surface attacks are big part of AOD, but you don't just waltz passed the escorts, you need a moonless, overcast night, and heavy fog. Then, you thread your way through the screen between escorts. You don't see them and they don't see you. Of course, there is always the peril that you will run right into one of them 500M off your bow.

So, what do the SH3 veterans do about this super stealth phenomena? Exploit it until the escorts get radar? Attack submerged and give the AI a fighting chance?

Thanks.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

What depth do you guys set for decks awash so my watch crew doesnt go below decks? 5 meters?

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

7 meters...

@markshot. whats AOD ?

[Jimbuna]

Aces Of The Deep

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

a supermod ? or a stock version ?

[bigboywooly]

If you run decks awash with crew up top you are using diesels
The game doesnt allow you to use electrics on the surface

[Sailor Steve]

a supermod ? or a stock version ?
A 16-year-old game, still widely regarded as the best subsim ever.

[UnterseeBoogeyMan]

a supermod ? or a stock version ? A 16-year-old game, still widely regarded as the best subsim ever.

Yes, I've been waiting for a subsim that lets you cruise into the bar after patrol and catch up on the latest gosspip, news, etc. AOD had it and nobody else wanted to add that kind of context to the game. Would GWX consider it?

I also liked the escort tactics - three of them would be working together to try to fix your position. It was very difficult to escape. Put the graphics of SHIII over top of the playability of AOD and you have a smokin good game!

[bigboywooly]

Later in the war you will get 3\4\5 escorts working together to fix your position in SH3

[Jimbuna]

Later in the war you will get 3\4\5 escorts working together to fix your position in SH3

We'd like you to meet Mr Walker and the Hunter Killer Gang ;)

[Foghladh_mhara]

Later in the war you will get 3\4\5 escorts working together to fix your position in SH3

We'd like you to meet Mr Walker and the Hunter Killer Gang ;)

Piffle! I laugh at Johnny Walker and his ilk!

Laugh, cry, a whole range of emotions really. Depends on how fragile I feel.

[bigboywooly]

Have had it with TF and convoy escorts also :nope:

Thats apart from the 2nd support group

And hunter killer groups

Late 42 onwards sucks

[MarkShot]

Well, AOD is good, but not without its faults.

Example design: At depth you are updated about the weather pattern in realtime through the tactical map visibility range circle.

Example technology: Sound drop outs when lots of voices, own engine, screws, and DCs going off were common due to limitation on the number of sound channels.

One nice thing which SH1 had which I don't think is modeled in this game is the high periscope. Meaning that you had a larger field of observation using the periscope than simply what the watch crew could provide. Thus, you could spot hull down ships before they had corresponding LOS to you.

---

Back to invisibility ... what year and month are the escorts going to get radar? I am wondering if I should apply some house rules until then such that night surface attacks can only be done in overcast/heavy fog conditions?

[MarkShot]

Excellent news! Mid-41. So, I am trying a decks awash attack on a convoy. At about 3km, a V&W escort opens up on me. I take some minor damage and crash dive!

I am not sure if this was radar or maybe an elite crew. The important thing though is that it was not a walk in the park to penetrate on the surface on a clear night. SH3/GWX ... this convoy for sure was was not a sitting duck. I am so happy.

I want my games to be hard and challenging (and also realistic to the extent feasible). I hate having to contrive artificial house rules to make up for game deficiencies. Now, we are fun!!!

"They're shooting at us!" Yes! Winston said something like there is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result.

[ReM]

Late 42 onwards sucks

I bet most U-Boat commanders second that feeling!

[MarkShot]

What exactly happens in late 42?

Better ASDIC?
Shipborn radar?

Do tell!

[Jimbuna]

Radar and more experienced crew to name but two :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

Yes, I've been waiting for a subsim that lets you cruise into the bar after patrol and catch up on the latest gosspip, news, etc. AOD had it and nobody else wanted to add that kind of context to the game. Would GWX consider it?
Get SH3 Commander. JScones added a really nice night club that uses pictures and music from Das Boot. It's quite good. Commander also does several dozen other great things you won't find anywhere else.

I also liked the escort tactics - three of them would be working together to try to fix your position. It was very difficult to escape. Put the graphics of SHIII over top of the playability of AOD and you have a smokin good game!
Back when SH3 was in production I said all I really needed was AOD with SH2's graphics! My opinion has changed somewhat. Have you ever had a pair of escorts tag-team you? One sits and listens while the other makes his attack run. As soon as you go to flank so does the other escort. And that's before GWX!:sunny:

[Foghladh_mhara]

Markshot my man you seem to be analysing GWX in a big way. Do me a favour, if you do find a chink in the armour dont tell me. Its realistic enough for me now

[bigboywooly]

Radar appears late 41 for some ships
Early 42 for the majority of the rest
Late 42 sees the introduction of hunter killer groups
Crew levels rise and better escorts appear
1943 sees most convoys escorted by frigates
Hedgehogs

Challenges increase

[Jimbuna]

Radar appears late 41 for some ships
Early 42 for the majority of the rest
Late 42 sees the introduction of hunter killer groups
Crew levels rise and better escorts appear
1943 sees most convoys escorted by frigates
Hedgehogs

Challenges increase

......and more sub sinkings :arrgh!:

[joea]

Radar appears late 41 for some ships
Early 42 for the majority of the rest
Late 42 sees the introduction of hunter killer groups
Crew levels rise and better escorts appear
1943 sees most convoys escorted by frigates
Hedgehogs

Challenges increase
......and more sub sinkings :arrgh!:

Yes. :nope:

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

i always sail at 7 and a half meter... gives a faster CD or dive time while having a littlebit more cover :up:

[Brag]

Markshot: Interesting experiment, thanks for sharing with us! :D

[Mowinz]

Thanks MS! I haven't even tried decks awash until you posted those screenies! Very cool! :up:

Cheers

[Puster Bill]

Piffle! I laugh at Johnny Walker and his ilk!

Laugh, cry, a whole range of emotions really. Depends on how fragile I feel.

Laugh at Johnny Walker all you want, but respect his Ilk. Them antlers is vicious, and he knows how to use them!