View Full Version : Battle of Midway Questions
I just refitted at Midway and got a message asking patrol craft to divert to the Midway Area. If I do divert,will I find anything? And if so, where would I find it off the coast of Midway (100nm, 50nm etc.)?Also, if tthere is something, what large warships would be there?
I dont remmeber how far NW the IJN force is in the campaign layers, honestly. There are forces out there. Oddly, only 3 CVs, not 4. The ships are packed together like sardines in a can (unhistorically, since the spacing between CVs the morning of June 4th was 8,000m), and there are not the right number of ships. The types are also wrong even though they have many of the correct ships in the roster to use, or better substitutions.
I'd have to look at the mission file, but they SHOULD be ~200nm NW of Midway.
I dont remmeber how far NW the IJN force is in the campaign layers, honestly. There are forces out there. Oddly, only 3 CVs, not 4. The ships are packed together like sardines in a can (unhistorically, since the spacing between CVs the morning of June 4th was 8,000m), and there are not the right number of ships. The types are also wrong even though they have many of the correct ships in the roster to use, or better substitutions.
I'd have to look at the mission file, but they SHOULD be ~200nm NW of Midway.
In the game it's May 29. Should I just sit around 200nm NW of Midway until the attack or should I go farther out?
orangenee
06-03-07, 11:16 AM
You may also find they appear on the wrong date as well, the real battle started on the 4th of June 1942, but in game it's been known to kick off maybe a day or so later than that.
If you don't want to take your chances like RL, you can always open the Battle of Midway.mis file with the campaign editor (SH4 folder/Data/Campaigns/Campaign/Battle_ofMidway.miss (or something close to that name)). Don;t save anything once opened, just quit when you are done looking at it. You will see the path they take on the map.
If you don't want to take your chances like RL, you can always open the Battle of Midway.mis file with the campaign editor (SH4 folder/Data/Campaigns/Campaign/Battle_ofMidway.miss (or something close to that name)). Don;t save anything once opened, just quit when you are done looking at it. You will see the path they take on the map.
OK, thanks, will try later
When I looked, It looked like a total mess. Waypoints everywhere. But I figured out that two of the best forces are passing aboout 565 KM NW of Midway.
For anyone who also wants this information. 566 km is about 305 nm.
there was a date bug with midway layer causing main carrier force not to appear..
think some mods have fixed it..
Well, the real TF had waypoints all over. Remember that in RL the Cvs need to steam into the wind to launch or receive aircraft.
The Midway mission is just so wrong. They made the right groups (Nagumo, Yamamoto, Tanaka, etc), and they populated them with ships. they didn't pay the slightest attention to putting the right ships in the right places. This is not a substitution issue, they've actually put the wrong ships in places where they actually have the proper ships in game.
The Main Body should have 2xNagato BB, 1xYamato. Nagato isn't in game, so Fuso would be a good sub. They used 2xKongo, no Yamato (I see TFs with multi Yamatos all the time, and the one place I should see ONE, there are none, lol). The Kondo force should have 2xKongo, they used Ise. Most groups have the wrong DDs escorting, even when they actually had the right model to use. Some substitutions make more sense than others, too, since many IJN DDs are visually nearly identical (improved version of previous class). Just sloppy.
I am working on a proper Midway mission for the campaign.
For now, I will just put all the right (or decent substitutions when unavailable) ships in, and not mess with the waypoints. The stock version will be a mess once air assets come into play I think.
Well, the real TF had waypoints all over. Remember that in RL the Cvs need to steam into the wind to launch or receive aircraft.
The Midway mission is just so wrong. They made the right groups (Nagumo, Yamamoto, Tanaka, etc), and they populated them with ships. they didn't pay the slightest attention to putting the right ships in the right places. This is not a substitution issue, they've actually put the wrong ships in places where they actually have the proper ships in game.
The Main Body should have 2xNagato BB, 1xYamato. Nagato isn't in game, so Fuso would be a good sub. They used 2xKongo, no Yamato (I see TFs with multi Yamatos all the time, and the one place I should see ONE, there are none, lol). The Kondo force should have 2xKongo, they used Ise. Most groups have the wrong DDs escorting, even when they actually had the right model to use. Some substitutions make more sense than others, too, since many IJN DDs are visually nearly identical (improved version of previous class). Just sloppy.
I am working on a proper Midway mission for the campaign.
For now, I will just put all the right (or decent substitutions when unavailable) ships in, and not mess with the waypoints. The stock version will be a mess once air assets come into play I think.
But, the main force of carriers will still appear, right? But if not, which mod fixes it?
Well, the real TF had waypoints all over. Remember that in RL the Cvs need to steam into the wind to launch or receive aircraft.
The Main Body should have 2xNagato BB, 1xYamato. Nagato isn't in game, so Fuso would be a good sub. They used 2xKongo, no Yamato (I see TFs with multi Yamatos all the time, and the one place I should see ONE, there are none, lol). The Kondo force should have 2xKongo, they used Ise. Most groups have the wrong DDs escorting, even when they actually had the right model to use. Some substitutions make more sense than others, too, since many IJN DDs are visually nearly identical (improved version of previous class). Just sloppy
I dunno, looking at the Nagato, Kongo and Fusos, the Kongo seems the best choice to me for the Main Body, it has the same number of turrets and funnels, a fuso looks a lot different, but each to his own...
I too have had a go at the midway layer, bit of mess at the moment, unfinished etc
http://www.speedyshare.com/166718580.html
Good point, I was looking at the years, speeds, etc. For now it's Fuso, Maybe I'll change it to Kongo in version 0.6.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a Midway Mod for your enjoyment. JSGME Ready.
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/270Battle%20of%20Midway%20beta.rar
README:
This is a fixed up Battle of Midway in the CAMPAIGN. This is not a single mission!
The mission is not changed from the layers in the stock SH4 game except for a few things, so don't expect perfect historical accuracy! I might work to make a better version, this is just a version better than the crappy stock version in terms of units used, timing, etc. I only changed IJN units since I don't expect to see the US units much. Except that they move way too far west. I'd delete that, but I haven't gotten that far yet, wait for version 2, lol.
Changes from stock mission:
1. Massive changes in the exact Japanese units shown. All units are now named with their real names. Every DD. All ships except transports. Some substitutions are made. All Kageros Class DDs are subbed with the nearly identical Asashio, Fuso for Nagato, etc.
2. Massive changes in the formations of the ships. The Kido Butai is set up somewhat properly in a 7-8000m box formation. The Guard DDs behind each CV may or may not leave station, unfortunately. The other groups are made up in terms of how they are arrayed. Anyone with a better idea for the formations of the Main BOdy, Invasion Force, etc, please let me know.
3. A few waypoint changes to get the timings at least somewhat right. Units were still set to start on january 1st in the stock Midway mission. this is now fixed, they start June 1st instead.
4. The stock layer has these ships at sea to start---so does this mod. A future version would back them up into port, but that fouls all the timings up, and this was a quick job for version 0.5, so they start at sea like they do in the stock game.
Enjoy!
tater
There are a few issues I need to iron out. Will get to it later this evening and up v0.6 after dinner (3-4 hours)
Good point, I was looking at the years, speeds, etc. For now it's Fuso, Maybe I'll change it to Kongo in version 0.6.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a Midway Mod for your enjoyment. JSGME Ready.
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/270Battle%20of%20Midway%20beta.rar
README:
This is a fixed up Battle of Midway in the CAMPAIGN. This is not a single mission!
The mission is not changed from the layers in the stock SH4 game except for a few things, so don't expect perfect historical accuracy! I might work to make a better version, this is just a version better than the crappy stock version in terms of units used, timing, etc. I only changed IJN units since I don't expect to see the US units much. Except that they move way too far west. I'd delete that, but I haven't gotten that far yet, wait for version 2, lol.
Changes from stock mission:
1. Massive changes in the exact Japanese units shown. All units are now named with their real names. Every DD. All ships except transports. Some substitutions are made. All Kageros Class DDs are subbed with the nearly identical Asashio, Fuso for Nagato, etc.
2. Massive changes in the formations of the ships. The Kido Butai is set up somewhat properly in a 7-8000m box formation. The Guard DDs behind each CV may or may not leave station, unfortunately. The other groups are made up in terms of how they are arrayed. Anyone with a better idea for the formations of the Main BOdy, Invasion Force, etc, please let me know.
3. A few waypoint changes to get the timings at least somewhat right. Units were still set to start on january 1st in the stock Midway mission. this is now fixed, they start June 1st instead.
4. The stock layer has these ships at sea to start---so does this mod. A future version would back them up into port, but that fouls all the timings up, and this was a quick job for version 0.5, so they start at sea like they do in the stock game.
Enjoy!
tater
Thanks, will try later.
Version 0.6 up
JSGME ready (which is good since I think it'll need to come and go a lot).
http://mpgtext.net/subshare/192Battle%20of%20Midway%20beta.rar (http://mpgtext.net/subshare/20Battle%20of%20Midway%20beta.rar)
A few internal date changes to make it work (one group was not timed right).
You might also want to read other threads on this same subject:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=116020
-Pv-
None of the the files work for me. I get a CTD on the please wait screen. I've tried both 0.5 and 0.6. I checked multiple times, and the only time it worked was when I didn't have it enabled.
Are you running from a save game in a career, Shyzar? That would CTD this for sure cause it won't match the save state.
My mod would only work for a new career. For you career in progress there is nothing to do. If you went to port (Hawaii), you'd come out for the next patrol after the battle was over.
In the stock game, the forces are set to leave home in january, and the mission is set to start in june. Result? No midway.
BTW, I will up a quick mod later that you can add on top of this. It will change the campaign.cfg to allow this layer in a single mission, and also include a single mission placing your sub right in the path of the Nagumo force. This will allow easy testing of it (or massive sinkings :D ).
tater
Although I haven't loaded this mod yet, and I truly hope with this upcoming patch, or the next patch, if there ever is a 1.4 . . . that they will fix the "stock" historical overlays . . . we greatly, as a community, appretiate all the effort you have taken to make our game play that much more enjoyable.
I'd be surprised if the patch (any patch) touches them at all, frankly. They have som many real problems to fix, and the missions... well in terms of the campaign we have the "SDK" for that, it's the mission editor. Actually, with Mcoca's Automated Editor, we actually have more tools than the devs do.
The only Dev work that would really help the historical missions (IMO) would be to improve the AI. Since they can't fight realistic surface engagements, it makes historical overlay battles pretty unsatisfying.
Will we need to create a new mod to fix every noticable naval battle . . . and the ones that are completely absent . . . or are there plans to create one massive mod?
There are certainly some planes. The lack of "persistance" is a bit of an issue. I'm personally interested in having ships be where they belong (warships). Once the mjor engagements are combined with ships sitting at anchor at truk and in the inland sea, the number of warships at large (including escorts) will be very low indeed.
Even in games such as PTO . . . running into a fleet of ships away from major ports/bases . . . was something of a rarity . . . it's a large ocean . . . and except for DEs and maybe a handful of DDs . . . a warship is very rare indeed . . . otherwise every nation would have a handful of cruisers and battleships . . . which they did not. Only those who could affored to defense their seabased supply lines. Shoot . . . even today cruisers are such a rarity . . . as long as CVs . . . they are todays BBs, when you compare the numbers.
'Cept for the USN of the period. We built nearly 800 DDs/DEs during the war, 140 carriers (mostly CVEs), etc. ;)
tater
I am suprised that alot of our allies aren't getting more of our stricken vessels . . . rather then becoming artificial reefs . . . I mean the Philippine Navy could use one or two old Spruances . . . but that's off topic.
I have to ask, does the game keep the actual numbers of the IJN ships . . . and would future Mods be able to assign names to all the warships . . . that way we can have names to the ships we sink?
the_belgian
06-08-07, 02:46 PM
I just refitted at Midway and got a message asking patrol craft to divert to the Midway Area. If I do divert,will I find anything? And if so, where would I find it off the coast of Midway (100nm, 50nm etc.)?Also, if tthere is something, what large warships would be there?
I came in to refit at Midway some days after recieving a message about an attack on Midway was emenent.
Directly after refit,a mile or so from my sub,3 friendly airman where in the water so i went there and picked them up.So to answer you Q : I think yes!
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