Global Peace index

[Gorduz]

How peaceful is your country?
My biggest suprise was russia.. what's happening over there?

http://www.visionofhumanity.com/rankings/

[Jimbuna]

Not suprised seeing Iraq at the bottom :nope:
But where is Afghanistan? :hmm:

[The Avon Lady]

I would like to have seen this organization produce the same map in 1937/8 and see what conclusions they would have drawn from that.

"Britain and France had a choice between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war."
- Winston Churchill, addressing Neville Chamberlain in the House of Commons, after the Munich accords, 1938

[Heibges]

I would like to have seen this organization produce the same map in 1937/8 and see what conclusions they would have drawn from that.

"Britain and France had a choice between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war."
- Winston Churchill, addressing Neville Chamberlain in the House of Commons, after the Munich accords, 1938

Let's try not to read more into this list than there is.

Israel being listed towards the bottom of the list doesn't mean that Israeli's aren't peaceful, just that on any given day the odds of something bad happening to you is greater compared to say Norway. Is this really a big surprise?

What would be interesting is to see where Germany would be on the list in 1928 and 1938? There were a lot of folks in the United States that looked on the "peaceful" Nazi society with envy (Walt Disney, Henry Ford, etc)

[The Avon Lady]

I would like to have seen this organization produce the same map in 1937/8 and see what conclusions they would have drawn from that.

"Britain and France had a choice between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war."
- Winston Churchill, addressing Neville Chamberlain in the House of Commons, after the Munich accords, 1938

Let's try not to read more into this list than there is.

Israel being listed towards the bottom of the list doesn't mean that Israeli's aren't peaceful, just that on any given day the odds of something bad happening to you is greater compared to say Norway. Is this really a big surprise?

What would be interesting is to see where Germany would be on the list in 1928 and 1938? There were a lot of folks in the United States that looked on the "peaceful" Nazi society with envy (Walt Disney, Henry Ford, etc)
What you say is exactly what I meant - 100%! :up:

[CCIP]

My biggest suprise was russia.. what's happening over there?


You can see the details if you click on the country name. Most of it is written off to internal problems like crime rates, terrorist acts, life expectancy and the 'un-democratization'.

Very accurate reflection. A lot of people don't really see how bad it is in Russia because of the recent economic uplift. Economic uplift isn't everything.

[Heibges]

My biggest suprise was russia.. what's happening over there?


You can see the details if you click on the country name. Most of it is written off to internal problems like crime rates, terrorist acts, life expectancy and the 'un-democratization'.

Very accurate reflection. A lot of people don't really see how bad it is in Russia because of the recent economic uplift. Economic uplift isn't everything.

It seems like the only thing that happened in Russia since the end of the Sovet Government is a few folks got very very very very rich. Everyone else is taking it in the rear.

One of the reasons Western companies are scared to invest in Russia, is that even though they have democracy, the "rule of law" doen not seem to exist.

Slightly OT: There was huge scandal recently with Russian Billionaries importing prostitutes into France from Russia through Switzerland for their own private use.

[The Avon Lady]

My biggest suprise was russia.. what's happening over there?


You can see the details if you click on the country name. Most of it is written off to internal problems like crime rates, terrorist acts, life expectancy and the 'un-democratization'.

Very accurate reflection. A lot of people don't really see how bad it is in Russia because of the recent economic uplift. Economic uplift isn't everything.
Putin's temper tantrum (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070602.wputin01/BNStory/International/home).

[fatty]

Whenever these sorts of lists are published I am always surprised to see how consistently well "crumbling old socialist Europe" places :p

[Skybird]

Whenever these sorts of lists are published I am always surprised to see how consistently well "crumbling old socialist Europe" places :p
Something like that was on my mind, too.

[Heibges]

My biggest suprise was russia.. what's happening over there?


You can see the details if you click on the country name. Most of it is written off to internal problems like crime rates, terrorist acts, life expectancy and the 'un-democratization'.

Very accurate reflection. A lot of people don't really see how bad it is in Russia because of the recent economic uplift. Economic uplift isn't everything.
Putin's temper tantrum (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070602.wputin01/BNStory/International/home).

I was standing at a bus stop talking to this old man the other night. He was a Russian Jew who had emigrated to the United States in the late 1980's. He said he left Russia because although his internal passport said Russian, his nose said Jew and he was always getting beaten up. Still, he hated Gorbachev for making Russia weak, thought Yeltsin was a drunken pig, a loved Putin for trying to make Russia strong again.

[CCIP]

I'm pretty sure the only people who liked Gorbachev and Yeltsin are the few that benefitted under them (e.g. 'oligarchs', organized crime, the church) and of course the West :hmm: Noone should be surprised by Putin's relative popularity at home.

[Heibges]

You don't think that Gorbachev had the best interests of the Russian people at heart?

[CCIP]

You don't think that Gorbachev had the best interests of the Russian people at heart?

Oh, I do. I think Gorbachev had the best of intentions, and you know what they say about good intentions... I don't think they justify what he brought the country to. It's the same (perhaps not as extreme) as Nicholas II - I've no doubt he wanted the best for everyone, but screwing everything up to that extent is, to most people, not something easily forgivable.

He was an idealist; Putin is a pragmatic. I'm sure Gorbachev had much better intentions than Putin ever will, but Putin has the foresight and means that Gorbi could only dream of.

[Heibges]

You don't think that Gorbachev had the best interests of the Russian people at heart?

Oh, I do. I think Gorbachev had the best of intentions, and you know what they say about good intentions... I don't think they justify what he brought the country to. It's the same (perhaps not as extreme) as Nicholas II - I've no doubt he wanted the best for everyone, but screwing everything up to that extent is, to most people, not something easily forgivable.

He was an idealist; Putin is a pragmatic. I'm sure Gorbachev had much better intentions than Putin ever will, but Putin has the foresight and means that Gorbi could only dream of.

You may appreciate this joke.

A retired CIA Agent John and a retired KGB Agent Ivan are having drinks at an Association of Retired Intelligence Officers party. They get into a good natured discussion of who pulled off the best intelligence coups.

John starts with the CIA tunneling under the Berlin Wall to tap phones in East Germany.

Ivan brings up stealing the plans to the Hydrogen Bomb.

John brings up keeping the Communists out of Italy after WWII.

Ivan brings up replacing Batista with Castro.

John brings up the toppling of Allende.

Ivan silences John with John Walker, Aldrige Ames, and Robert Hanssen.

John thinks for a minute and says, "there was one CIA project that was so secret, and so harmful to the Soviet Union, that even now a I can't tell you what it is, but if you were to guess I could acknowledge you are right.

Ivan thinks for several minutes, and then replies.....Gos Agroprom

[CCIP]

:lol: Yep. That's just it. :p

[Safe-Keeper]

Yes, Israel would probably be higher up if it wasn't sharing area with the Palestinians. They... don't exactly get along too well.

I knew Norway was peaceful, but that it was #1 I just couldn't imagine. And here I was worrying about there seems to be more murders each year:oops:. It should be mentioned, though, that peaceful and safe aren't necessarily the same thing. The weather's growing pretty hostile here on the South-Western coast, which has already caused fatalities. I think that if hurricanes and storms were factored in, we might drop a place or two, although I think we'd still rank among the 5 top countries.

Also, I notice some countries, such as Iceland and Greenland, appear not to be included. Surely Iceland must be more peaceful than Norway, what with it only having 300 000 people:-?? I'd liked to have known where Rwanda would have been, too.

[Tchocky]

4th, not so bad

[Yahoshua]

I'm surprised to see Switzerland rank 14th instead of 1......the swiss haven't been involved in any wars for more than 200 years.

[bookworm_020]

Australia 25th, not too surprised at that, with troops in Iraq and Afganistan that pulled our score down somewhat.

[P_Funk]

I'm surprised to see Switzerland rank 14th instead of 1......the swiss haven't been involved in any wars for more than 200 years.
You don't have to be in a war to benefit from it.

Technically speaking the United States hasn't been to war since Korea. Vietnam was a 'police action', 91 was an intervention of some kind and the 'War on Terror' is so ambiguous that it doesn't even exist anywhere except on a teleprompter.

I read somewhere that Swiss citizens that are in the armed forces take their issued arms home with them and keep them nearby for quick deployment. That might be part of it... that and the Jewish gold.:rotfl:

Oh and Israel... hahahahaha... oh man. I'm not gonna touch that except to say that best intentions aren't everything. Peave loving and peace making are two different things.

*retreats to underground bunker to arm self with sharpest wit and strongest critical armour*

[The Avon Lady]

Oh and Israel... hahahahaha... oh man. I'm not gonna touch that except to say that best intentions aren't everything. Peave loving and peace making are two different things.

*retreats to underground bunker to arm self with sharpest wit and strongest critical armour*
Come out, come out, where ever you are!

What next in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, which some call the “peace process”?

I shall argue three points: that these negotiations have been so counterproductive, they could better be called the “war process”; that their failure results from an Israeli conceptual error fifteen years ago about the nature of warfare; and that the U.S. government should urge Jerusalem to forego negotiations and return instead to its earlier policy of deterrence.
- Next Steps in the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process (http://foreignaffairs.house.gov/110/Pip21407.htm), Testimony by Daniel Pipes, U.S. House Committee on Foreign Affairs, Subcommittee on Middle East and South Asia, February 14, 2007

[dean_acheson]

I would like to have seen this organization produce the same map in 1937/8 and see what conclusions they would have drawn from that.

"Britain and France had a choice between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war."
- Winston Churchill, addressing Neville Chamberlain in the House of Commons, after the Munich accords, 1938

Any group that this is their main supporter list is a bit suspect in my eyes....

HH Dalai Lama
Archbishop Desmond Tutu
Betty Williams
President Jimmy Carter
Amnesty International
Professor Joseph Stiglitz

Joseph Stiglitz? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: The world's premier income redistribution leader?

[Yahoshua]

Technically speaking the United States hasn't been to war since Korea. Vietnam was a 'police action', 91 was an intervention of some kind and the 'War on Terror' is so ambiguous that it doesn't even exist anywhere except on a teleprompter.

War doesn't have to be sanctioned to be called a war.

[dean_acheson]

Here's some raw meat (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25727_Vision_of_Humanity_Peace_Index-_US_Less_Peaceful_Than_Yemen&only) for ya! lol.


http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20070602PeaceIndexMap.gif

[The Avon Lady]

Here's some raw meat (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25727_Vision_of_Humanity_Peace_Index-_US_Less_Peaceful_Than_Yemen&only) for ya! lol.


http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/20070602PeaceIndexMap.gif
Um, that's the topic of this thread. So what exactly is your point? :hmm:

[dean_acheson]

Avon,
That was kinda a joke. I always figure that at link to LGF is going to cause excitement. One of the commenters LGF pointed out some of the folks who put this "study" on consider their dearest allies (http://www.visionofhumanity.com/heroinesForPeace/index.php), this was slightly instructive.

Some of my favorite comments at the bottom of the LGF post are/were:

"Well that certainly explains why so many people are fleeing the US for Cuba, China, Vietnam, and Libya. At this rate in a few years they'll be no one left in America."

"I like to look at that peace map when I'm stoned. It kind of looks like a patchwork quile of peace, or like a tapestry man. It's just so beautiful."

"I think we should bomb all those countries that ranked higher than us, to eliminate the "Peace Gap".

"It's because of all our monster trucks."


I had course in statistics once, using excel and maps and such, called "Quantitative Analysis in International Affairs" and it was just like this little project that this org. did. In fact, the methodolgy is exactly the same. You punch a bunch of numbers in to criteria you come up with yourself, kinda like the EIU, which is the basis of much of this report.

You will notice on page five (http://www.visionofhumanity.com/artman/uploads/1/EIU_Report.pdf) a professor from one of my alma matter where I had this course.

The criteria itself is very interesting. Tells you a great deal about the agenda. Where % of GDP and defense spending, as well as 'trust of others' is criteria, a certain agenda becomes apparent.