That's a big gun!

[The Avon Lady]

I was just reading this week's issue of BusinessWeek. They mention how well Smith & Wesson is doing in an article about numerous financially successful companies that are not the one's you'd necessarily expect.

Anyway, they have a full page color pic of S&W's CEO holding one of these (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=27970&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y) in his hand. OMG! :doh:

Time for a "Dirty Harry" sequel. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

"Are you feeling lucky punk"?

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4315/858711fk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Happy Times]

"Are you feeling lucky punk"?

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4315/858711fk7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Harry was the best.

Dirty Harry - "The most powerful handgun in the world"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOpjCVLnBJY&mode=related&search=

[kurtz]

Compensated hunter? I think someone's compensating for something...

[Oberon]

Mein Gott!!

I've seen smaller tank barrels!!

[Yahoshua]

Must be a Big Game/Safari handgun for that caliber.


I'd rather have a Colt Python though, they're far more collectible than this will be for the time being.

[Letum]

How very odd!

Thats the samw gun that is supposed to have killed the giant pig! :hmm:

[SUBMAN1]

I was just reading this week's issue of BusinessWeek. They mention how well Smith & Wesson is doing in an article about numerous financially successful companies that are not the one's you'd necessarily expect.

Anyway, they have a full page color pic of S&W's CEO holding one of these (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=27970&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15707&isFirearm=Y) in his hand. OMG! :doh:

Time for a "Dirty Harry" sequel. :yep:
What a worthless gun (So I don't really follow the OMG statement). Not really useful for anything other than another thing to try and shoot (similar to taking a car for a test drive - In this case a dragster that has no real purpose other than to race down a perfectly stright track). Might as well go with a rifle instead of that thing. Of course, some guy will want it for his collection though.

Dirty Harry got it all wrong too - his .357 is not the most powerful hand gun you can get. Matter of fact, its pretty pathetic even compared to a .45 in penetration tests (contrary to popular believe).

-S

[The Avon Lady]

How very odd!

Thats the samw gun that is supposed to have killed the giant pig! :hmm:
Specifically........ (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14807&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y).

[SUBMAN1]

How very odd!

Thats the samw gun that is supposed to have killed the giant pig! :hmm: Specifically........ (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14807&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y).

I guess if you're going handgun hunting, it might be useful. Never quite understood the fun of handgun hunting though.

[Heibges]

It's not a "gun", it's a weapon. :)

[SUBMAN1]

It's not a "gun", it's a weapon. :)
That thing is by no means a weapon - try pea shooter.

This is a weapon:

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/michael/blog/images/Nuke2.JPG

[geetrue]

What are the gun laws in Israel anyway, Avon Lady?

You couldn't carry that thing around in your purse ...

I'm sure they allow you to have just about any type of weapon at home for home defense,
but what about personal protection in public?

[LuftWolf]

Dirty Harry got it all wrong too - his .357 is not the most powerful hand gun you can get. Matter of fact, its pretty pathetic even compared to a .45 in penetration tests (contrary to popular believe).

-S

Dirty Harry's gun was a .44 magnum S&W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_29

Cheers,
David

[SUBMAN1]

Dirty Harry got it all wrong too - his .357 is not the most powerful hand gun you can get. Matter of fact, its pretty pathetic even compared to a .45 in penetration tests (contrary to popular believe).

-S
Dirty Harry's gun was a .44 magnum S&W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_29

Cheers,
David

Not for his first movie - and his most famous quote he used a .357! :D

[Letum]

Are there any hand-'cannons' ?
20mm hand guns......30mm?

I know it would be almost useless, but what fun!

[LuftWolf]

How about this gun?

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/pistol50bmgmaadigriffin467ace.jpg

Cheers,
David

[ASWnut101]

Are there any hand-'cannons' ?
20mm hand guns......30mm?

I know it would be almost useless, but what fun!

Well, you could (theoretically) lift and fire a M242 25mm-Bushmaster with both hands, but the recoil would probably rip your arms off.

As for a pistol, I've never seen anything past .50 caliber.




@Luftwolf: Firing that thing would break your wrists. :p


...I want one!:D

[The Avon Lady]

What are the gun laws in Israel anyway, Avon Lady?

You couldn't carry that thing around in your purse ...

I'm sure they allow you to have just about any type of weapon at home for home defense,
but what about personal protection in public?
I don't know the details but in general everyone must be licensed and registered in order to own or purchase a gun. And not everyone is entitled to be licensed. In fact, most people are not. Licensing usually depends on location of work or residence or the type of work someone is employed in. So, for example, my husband would not be able to obtain a license. There are exceptions but they are uncommon.

So, it's pretty much the opposite of what you would have thought, even though in practicality, every 7th or 8th person here seems to be carrying a weapon.

As far as concealing weapons, I don't believe it's illegal but I'm simply making that assumption from what I've seen.

[U-533]

What are the gun laws in Israel anyway, Avon Lady?

You couldn't carry that thing around in your purse ...

I'm sure they allow you to have just about any type of weapon at home for home defense,
but what about personal protection in public?
I don't know the details but in general everyone must be licensed and registered in order to own or purchase a gun. And not everyone is entitled to be licensed. In fact, most people are not. Licensing usually depends on location of work or residence or the type of work someone is employed in. So, for example, my husband would not be able to obtain a license. There are exceptions but they are uncommon.

So, it's pretty much the opposite of what you would have thought, even though in practicality, every 7th or 8th person here seems to be carrying a weapon.

As far as concealing weapons, I don't believe it's illegal but I'm simply making that assumption from what I've seen.

I not only "Carry" ... I "Tote"...

Anything smaller than .38 is carrying

:sunny: :rock: :up: :smug:

[SUBMAN1]

What are the gun laws in Israel anyway, Avon Lady?

You couldn't carry that thing around in your purse ...

I'm sure they allow you to have just about any type of weapon at home for home defense,
but what about personal protection in public? I don't know the details but in general everyone must be licensed and registered in order to own or purchase a gun. And not everyone is entitled to be licensed. In fact, most people are not. Licensing usually depends on location of work or residence or the type of work someone is employed in. So, for example, my husband would not be able to obtain a license. There are exceptions but they are uncommon.

So, it's pretty much the opposite of what you would have thought, even though in practicality, every 7th or 8th person here seems to be carrying a weapon.

As far as concealing weapons, I don't believe it's illegal but I'm simply making that assumption from what I've seen.
I not only "Carry" ... I "Tote"...

Anything smaller than .38 is carrying

:sunny: :rock: :up: :smug:

I'd group 9mm and .38 in that catagory too. If it's not at least a .40, it is not going to do you much good anyway!

-S

[Yahoshua]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

[SUBMAN1]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

Not really - cops shot that guy 32 times over 45 minutes - many should have been fatal with a larger calibre, and he was still fine running for and returning fire! That was with a 9mm!! As i said - .40 or higher, preferably .45 with a 230 gr bullet. Those 9mm 115 gr just do not penetrate.

-S

[Heibges]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

Not really - cops shot that guy 32 times over 45 minutes - many should have been fatal with a larger calibre, and he was still fine running for and returning fire! That was with a 9mm!! As i said - .40 or higher, preferably .45 with a 230 gr bullet. Those 9mm 115 gr just do not penetrate.

-S

Are you talking about the incident which caused the FBI to have the 10mm developed? But wasn't that "guy" and ex-Army Ranger, and wasn't he jacked up on PCP?

[Heibges]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

Reservists get screwed even in Israel.

A Regular Army noncom can own a handgun, but a reservist has to be a Regimental Commander?:doh: Is that correct?

[SUBMAN1]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm
Not really - cops shot that guy 32 times over 45 minutes - many should have been fatal with a larger calibre, and he was still fine running for and returning fire! That was with a 9mm!! As i said - .40 or higher, preferably .45 with a 230 gr bullet. Those 9mm 115 gr just do not penetrate.

-S
Are you talking about the incident which caused the FBI to have the 10mm developed? But wasn't that "guy" and ex-Army Ranger, and wasn't he jacked up on PCP?
No. just slightly fat! :D And not that fat either. FBI strictly dictates that if you plan on using a smaller calibre 9mm now, that at the very least you use heavy MP5 ammo in it (147 gr). FBI rule of thumb is that proper penetration is 12 to 18 inches through gelatin. 115 gr doesn't make it - not even hot loads - reaches about 8 or so on average I beleive. The reason being is that even though 8 inches penetration will kill someone if it hits the torso of the body, directly through the torso with the target standing striaght head on to you, in actuallity, this never happens. The target will in 99% of cases be sideways to you, possibly shooting at you. This means that most likely, you have to not only penetrat and arm, but probably a considerable amount of bone before the penetration into the torso cavity. 115 gr just stops in the arm, not doing any (significant) secondary penetration into the torso rendering it completely ineffective in most situations.

The cops in question, after 45 minutes, managed to get a shot off that hit the guys juggler accidently. This killed him.

-S

PS. That department only issues 147 gr ammo now to those officers still using 9mm.

[bradclark1]

How about this gun?

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/pistol50bmgmaadigriffin467ace.jpg

Cheers,
David
I wonder if anyone has ever had their eye to the scope when they pulled the trigger.:88)

[Heibges]

How about this gun?

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/pistol50bmgmaadigriffin467ace.jpg

Cheers,
David
I wonder if anyone has ever had their eye to the scope when they pulled the trigger.:88)

When she was little, my sister did that with our Dad's Stevens-Savage 30-30, and got a serious black eye. :cry:

[kiwi_2005]

What are the gun laws in Israel anyway, Avon Lady?

You couldn't carry that thing around in your purse ...

I'm sure they allow you to have just about any type of weapon at home for home defense,
but what about personal protection in public? I don't know the details but in general everyone must be licensed and registered in order to own or purchase a gun. And not everyone is entitled to be licensed. In fact, most people are not. Licensing usually depends on location of work or residence or the type of work someone is employed in. So, for example, my husband would not be able to obtain a license. There are exceptions but they are uncommon.

So, it's pretty much the opposite of what you would have thought, even though in practicality, every 7th or 8th person here seems to be carrying a weapon.

As far as concealing weapons, I don't believe it's illegal but I'm simply making that assumption from what I've seen.

Avon just the truth will do. You want to buy a 357!:lol:;)

[SUBMAN1]

I wonder if anyone has ever had their eye to the scope when they pulled the trigger.:88)
Assuming it is a real gun (idots in the US will try anything once!) I'm assuming a rather large spring in that one. I've put many rounds downrange on a Barrett 82A1 and in getting it together, it has one huge spring to absorb recoil. One thing I see lacking on this gun that is on the Barrett is a muzzle brake which directs the muzzle energy backwards against the gun to further absorb recoil.

Anyway, the point I am getting at is that firing the Barrett from the hip and unloading all 10 rounds is not a really big thing outside of the shockwave it creates when firing. A 12 guage will generate much more recoil. The Barrett has almost no recoil. My only beef with it is the optics. The pinhole of light is so small, to find it again for a follow up shot takes practice. Basically though - you need a spotter to even see if you hit anything because you lose the light every time you shoot.

-S

PS. Speaking about the shockwave - all the spent 12 guage shells on the ground around the thing just blow away every time it goes off. I have a picture of me firing it and the 12 guage shells are standing up on end from the shockwave (The spend cartridge is also in the air in the pic too). I'd post it, but I think I'll wash out my facial features first. Don't need some anti-gun idiot using me as another propoganda tool.

[Onkel Neal]

Dirty Harry got it all wrong too - his .357 is not the most powerful hand gun you can get. Matter of fact, its pretty pathetic even compared to a .45 in penetration tests (contrary to popular believe).

-S
Dirty Harry's gun was a .44 magnum S&W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_29

Cheers,
David

Not for his first movie - and his most famous quote he used a .357! :D


Wrong, get your facts straight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOpjCVLnBJY&mode=related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOpjCVLnBJY&mode=related&search)=

Doesn't even look like a .357

[SUBMAN1]

Dirty Harry got it all wrong too - his .357 is not the most powerful hand gun you can get. Matter of fact, its pretty pathetic even compared to a .45 in penetration tests (contrary to popular believe).

-S
Dirty Harry's gun was a .44 magnum S&W.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_&_Wesson_Model_29

Cheers,
David
Not for his first movie - and his most famous quote he used a .357! :D

Wrong, get your facts straight. :roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOpjCVLnBJY&mode=related&search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOpjCVLnBJY&mode=related&search)=

Doesn't even look like a .357
Hey - thats a later movie! (There is the chance I could be wrong, but I remeber saying - you are wrong in the middle of the movie on thsi one at some point in the past!)

[Onkel Neal]

That's the first movie, Dirty Harry :)

[SUBMAN1]

Thought so. The later movie used the .44 (or was the first edited after the fact?):

And didn't Dirty Harry have a .357?
Yep. Not sure myself whether the .44 mag had been developed by the time Dirty Harry was being made, though.


Posted by: McGehee at January 16, 2005 07:54 AM
IIRC, Dirty Harry started with a .357 before the .44 came on the market, but upgraded shortly thereafter. Making ol' Clint the Xrlq of his day, so to speak.

[Onkel Neal]

??Posted where and who is Megeehee??:lol:

Lot of stories about the gun used in the movie but they did have a .44 Magnum prop gun, and the gun "depicted" is a .44 Magnum. Didn't you listed to what he said in the clip? "This is a .44 Magnum..." and who's going to argue with Clint?

[Heibges]

If I remember the claim to fame of the gun in Sudden Impact, is that it was a ".44 Automag".

Yep, here's a link.

http://www.the-dirtiest.com/automag.htm

[Yahoshua]

It all depends on whether you can put the bullets where you want them to go.

As for Israeli Firearms Laws:

http://www.jpfo.org/israel-firearms.htm

Reservists get screwed even in Israel.

A Regular Army noncom can own a handgun, but a reservist has to be a Regimental Commander?:doh: Is that correct?

That's the impression I get too. My resources are limited since I can't read Hebrew, but if AL would be gracious enough to translate this document for us.


http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/2AB0B439-19A3-4813-854D-D1FFAFF7DF49/0/Shnaton2002.pdf

[The Avon Lady]

[My resources are limited since I can't read Hebrew, but if AL would be gracious enough to translate this document for us.


http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/2AB0B439-19A3-4813-854D-D1FFAFF7DF49/0/Shnaton2002.pdf
That's some totally irrelevant bureacratic document from the Foreign Ministry.

Wrong link? :-?

Anyway, I think you've gotten the idea from what was discussed here already.

[Yahoshua]

Not really - cops shot that guy 32 times over 45 minutes - many should have been fatal with a larger calibre, and he was still fine running for and returning fire! That was with a 9mm!! As i said - .40 or higher, preferably .45 with a 230 gr bullet. Those 9mm 115 gr just do not penetrate.

-S

I'm not familiaar with the incident you mentioned (anybody on PCP will be extremely difficult to take down), but Law Enforcement Officers are NOT known for their stellar marksmanship. If the officer put a well-placed shot into the vital area of the gunmans upper chest with with a HP round, the gunman should be done for the day. And it makes a big difference as to where the gunman was hit (leg, arm, gut, etc.).

Ball ammo in a 9mm is only good for the range.

And contrary to your statment, 9mm does have more penetration than .45 ACP, in fact the 9mm was designed with the principle of being able to pierce a steel helmet at 75 meters. The .45 ACP was designed to be a "Man Stopper," which it most certainly is.


Some amateur "field tests" Retirement looks like it's fun.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot10.htm

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot13_3.htm

And the real tests:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/45acp.htm

So you can see that overall, the 9mm has better penetration than .45 ACP. This is the primary fault that I find with 9mm, it isn't slow enough to completely expand or cause enough damage to the target as the .45 ACP does.

[Yahoshua]

[My resources are limited since I can't read Hebrew, but if AL would be gracious enough to translate this document for us.


http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/2AB0B439-19A3-4813-854D-D1FFAFF7DF49/0/Shnaton2002.pdf
That's some totally irrelevant bureacratic document from the Foreign Ministry.

Wrong link? :-?

Anyway, I think you've gotten the idea from what was discussed here already.

I wasn't even able to read the title from the google search since it was in Hebrew, but oh well. I'd be much more satisfied with the actual transcript of the laws themselves, so I'll keep looking for it.

[Yahoshua]

One thing I see lacking on this gun that is on the Barrett is a muzzle brake which directs the muzzle energy backwards against the gun to further absorb recoil.

My only beef with it is the optics. The pinhole of light is so small, to find it again for a follow up shot takes practice. Basically though - you need a spotter to even see if you hit anything because you lose the light every time you shoot.

-S



For the first part:

Recoil is the air that was pushed out of the barrel, rushing back into the barrel and stopping on the spent cartridge.

The loud bang is the moving air in the barrel hitting that stationary "wall" of air at the muzzle (a muzzlebrake actually makes the noise louder).

What the muzzlebrake actually does is slow down the air that's moving back into the barrel.



The second part: The eye-relief (distance between your eye and the scope) is too big. You need to move the scope closer to your eye to correct it. You should have a full field of view when looking through a scope.

[SUBMAN1]

For the first part:

Recoil is the air that was pushed out of the barrel, rushing back into the barrel and stopping on the spent cartridge.

The loud bang is the moving air in the barrel hitting that stationary "wall" of air at the muzzle (a muzzlebrake actually makes the noise louder).

What the muzzlebrake actually does is slow down the air that's moving back into the barrel.
Not quite on a Barrett rifle. if you've ever fired one, you would know what I am talking about. I think Barrett's faq will actually explain it better:

http://www.barrettrifles.com/faq.aspx

What does .50 caliber recoil feel like?
Much of the recoil in both the .50 BMG and .416 Barrett is reduced by the muzzle brake. The main spring and the barrel springs in the 82A1 reduce the recoil even more. Our large caliber rifles all weigh over 20 pounds which also helps to reduce recoil. While this is a very frequently asked question, even novice shooters do not find the recoil to be objectionable. The "feel" is more of a rapid push than a sharp kick.

More info from the same faq:

What does a muzzle brake do?
A muzzle brake reduces recoil. Your large-caliber rifle was designed to always be fired with the factory installed muzzle brake attached. Never fire your large rifle with the muzzle brake removed or with an aftermarket muzzle brake attached.


The point of the muzzle brake on the Barrett is angled backwards on this rifle. This backwards angle alleviates the backwards motion of the rigle with its own gases. Most muzzle brakes actually don't do this and fall in line I beleive with what you describe.


The second part: The eye-relief (distance between your eye and the scope) is too big. You need to move the scope closer to your eye to correct it. You should have a full field of view when looking through a scope.
Not on this specially designed scope (costs about $1300). It has the tiniest light field you have ever seen in a scope - but it is also ranged for up to 2000 yards, and also must stand up to the mechanical shocks this rifle delivers. I've fired many scopes, but not like this one. This is why Barrett teams in the military actually operate in teams - with this rifle, you 'have' to have a spotter. The shooter will lose sight the moment the trigger is pulled. After practicing, you can get the sight back pretty quickly, but there is no way to keep it while firing.

By the way, getting closer (ie. touching it or so) to the scope on this rifle is not a recommended thing to do! :D Fire off a round on one and you will see why! The faq probably says it best above - its more a rapid push than shock, so you probably don't want to lose an eye!

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Here is a copy of Barrett's muzzle brake patent:

Lateral projection muzzle brake

Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 7032339
Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7032339.html
Abstract:
An improved muzzle brake, attached to the end of a rifle barrel reducing the recoil of the rifle includes an internally threaded attaching end, engaging outer threads of a rifle barrel, a flattened projectile end, with an overall increasing taper from the attaching end to the projectile end, a flat upper surface which does not impede the sight line of the rifle, a flat lower surface, and two lateral surfaces including a first lateral oval vent, a second lateral oval vent and a third lateral oval vent, the first lateral vent defining a first flat brake plate having a first central bore, the second lateral oval vent defining a second flat brake plate having a second central bore and the third lateral oval vent defining a third flat brake plate having a third central bore penetrating through the projectile end, wherein a bullet fired from the rifle travels through the attaching end, the first central bore, second central bore and third central bore, while the gasses generated by the fired projectile are deflected laterally by the first flat brake plate, second flat brake plate and third flat brake plate, forcing the rifle forward, reducing the recoil force of the fired rifle.




Sound cool? It is, especially in operation!

-S

PS. Here are a couple pics of it so you can see the backwards angle:

http://www.atwar.net/e107_images/article/vid-barett_m82a3_1.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6604/m82a1so2.jpg

[The Avon Lady]

My baby from Delta Force MP sniper days! How I've missed you! :oops:

[Jimbuna]

Saw something like that being used in the 'Smokin Aces' film the other day with deadly effect :yep:

[kurtz]

[quote=Yahoshua
Recoil is the air that was pushed out of the barrel, rushing back into the barrel and stopping on the spent cartridge.

[/quote]

Surely recoil is the application of one of Newtons Laws (3rd I think) Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

The recoil is because the propellant in the cartridge expands forcing the casing and bullet away from each other equally. As the bullet can move freely out of the barrel that moves faster and further than the rifle itself.

Also...
I think the compensator on the handgun does the same job as the muzzle brake on the rather lovely Barret.

The .50 cal handgun in this thread is a bolt action weapon so no springs, I guess you you have to do special exercises to toughen your wrist up, I unfortunately can't divulge what these exercise are:D

[Heibges]

I believe all US Army sniper teams operate with a shooter and a spotter.

[Yahoshua]

Here is a copy of Barrett's muzzle brake patent:

Lateral projection muzzle brake

Document Type and Number:
United States Patent 7032339
Link to this page:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7032339.html
Abstract:
An improved muzzle brake, attached to the end of a rifle barrel reducing the recoil of the rifle includes an internally threaded attaching end, engaging outer threads of a rifle barrel, a flattened projectile end, with an overall increasing taper from the attaching end to the projectile end, a flat upper surface which does not impede the sight line of the rifle, a flat lower surface, and two lateral surfaces including a first lateral oval vent, a second lateral oval vent and a third lateral oval vent, the first lateral vent defining a first flat brake plate having a first central bore, the second lateral oval vent defining a second flat brake plate having a second central bore and the third lateral oval vent defining a third flat brake plate having a third central bore penetrating through the projectile end, wherein a bullet fired from the rifle travels through the attaching end, the first central bore, second central bore and third central bore, while the gasses generated by the fired projectile are deflected laterally by the first flat brake plate, second flat brake plate and third flat brake plate, forcing the rifle forward, reducing the recoil force of the fired rifle.




Sound cool? It is, especially in operation!

-S

PS. Here are a couple pics of it so you can see the backwards angle:

http://www.atwar.net/e107_images/article/vid-barett_m82a3_1.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6604/m82a1so2.jpg

I'd forgotten the brakes were directed backwards:-? . Never fired one myself but I did see an accurized .338 LM rifle in action going for 20 oz. water bottles at around 400 meters. It was really cool to see how high those things would fly when you hit 'em just right.:D

[Yahoshua]

Surely recoil is the application of one of Newtons Laws (3rd I think) Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

The recoil is because the propellant in the cartridge expands forcing the casing and bullet away from each other equally. As the bullet can move freely out of the barrel that moves faster and further than the rifle itself.


I seem to be posting parts of the recoil process and not the full event:doh: . I need to get my brain in order. But yes you are correct.

Okay, we'll start from the beginning here using a Bolt-Action Rifle as an example, the chamber is loaded and the bolt is in the process of firing.

1. Firing pin strikes Primer, igniting powder in cartridge. Cartridge casing expands and stops against the wall of the chamber and bolt face.

2. Expanding gases from powder in cartridge begin to force bullet out of the casing and onto the lands and grooves in the barrel (the casing doesn't move rearward yet because it's grabbing the sides of the chamber).

3.Friction between the bullet and the lands and grooves pulls the barrel slightly forward.

4. Air that's in the barrel begins to be pushed out by the bullet toward the muzzle.

5. Shock from the air impact breaks the speed of sound (bang).

6. Bullet leaves muzzle.

7. Expanding gases leave muzzle.

8. Cartridge casing springs back to original size after internal pressure drops.

9. Air rushes back into barrel and slams into spent cartridge casing.

10. Cartridge casing slams into face of bolt and the force of impact travels through the receiver, the stock, and into the shooter.

The video here will help with the above processs (the forward movement is almost imperceptible since there's no background to illuminate the barrel, but I believe this is a beretta that's being fired).

http://www.stupidvideos.com/video//Slow_Motion_Shooting_Stuff/?m=new

[Antidike]

I agree it probably a beretta M92.

The cavitation in the Gelatin was amazing.

I'm afraid I can't accept the stuff about air rushing back into the barrell causing recoil. a) I'm not sure there will be such a hard vacuum left in the barrell and b) the area of the bolt face is so small that the 15 psi of pressure at max won't do much.

That said your explanation makes sense of the muzzle brake/compensator. If you can give me a link to another explanation...please.

I must admit though being English I don't get to see guns that often so I'm working just from physics.

[Antidike]

I agree it probably a beretta M92.

The cavitation in the Gelatin was amazing.

I'm afraid I can't accept the stuff about air rushing back into the barrell causing recoil. a) I'm not sure there will be such a hard vacuum left in the barrell and b) the area of the bolt face is so small that the 15 psi of pressure at max won't do much.

That said your explanation makes sense of the muzzle brake/compensator. If you can give me a link to another explanation...please.

I must admit though being English I don't get to see guns that often so I'm working just from physics.

Oops posted on my daughters login...Kurtz

While I'm here though, c'mon moderators give her a girlie icon

[Sailor Steve]

Thought so. The later movie used the .44 (or was the first edited after the fact?):

And didn't Dirty Harry have a .357?
Yep. Not sure myself whether the .44 mag had been developed by the time Dirty Harry was being made, though.


Posted by: McGehee at January 16, 2005 07:54 AM
IIRC, Dirty Harry started with a .357 before the .44 came on the market, but upgraded shortly thereafter. Making ol' Clint the Xrlq of his day, so to speak.
You're quoting a bad source. In a later movie he switched from the ".44 Magnum", a revolver, to the "Automag"; but the original was a .44, not a .357.

Here's another source:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066999/quotes

[Yahoshua]

I agree it probably a beretta M92.

The cavitation in the Gelatin was amazing.

I'm afraid I can't accept the stuff about air rushing back into the barrell causing recoil. a) I'm not sure there will be such a hard vacuum left in the barrell and b) the area of the bolt face is so small that the 15 psi of pressure at max won't do much.

That said your explanation makes sense of the muzzle brake/compensator. If you can give me a link to another explanation...please.

I must admit though being English I don't get to see guns that often so I'm working just from physics.


A. I didn't quite fully explain it...again. When the bullet leaves the barrel, the barrel will spring rearward due to the friction caused by the bullet, the air that rushes into the barrel will merely compound it.

This site explains it better than I can.

http://illumin.usc.edu/article.php?articleID=61&page=2

B. I don't know where you got 15 PSI from, since firearms operate in the thousands of PSI range. For example, SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute) rates 9mm at a standard of 35,000 PSI.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm


SAAMI website here: http://www.saami.org/

[ASWnut101]

B. I don't know where you got 15 PSI from, since firearms operate in the thousands of PSI range. For example, SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute) rates 9mm at a standard of 35,000 PSI.


Probably got it mixed up with standard air-pressure (a 'normal' day outside), which is 15 psi.




...to bad I've never fired a Barret anything in my life. I'd like to 'feel' the experience.

[Yahoshua]

My baby from Delta Force MP sniper days! How I've missed you! :oops:

You played that game too? What was your longest record with the .50?

Mine was 2,900 meters (beyond view shot on a snow level). Loved using that .50 at long distance.

[kurtz]

B. I don't know where you got 15 PSI from, since firearms operate in the thousands of PSI range. For example, SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute) rates 9mm at a standard of 35,000 PSI.


Probably got it mixed up with standard air-pressure (a 'normal' day outside), which is 15 psi.




...to bad I've never fired a Barret anything in my life. I'd like to 'feel' the experience.

That's where I got the pressure from I'll re read in the morning but I thought that was where the pressure was coming from to replace the gases from the propellant.

@Yahoshua thanks for the links, I'll give them a good read there's obviously something I'm not getting my head around tonight.

[Yahoshua]

Don't worry, us guys can't know EVERYTHING.....although we'd like to.

[fatty]

I agree it probably a beretta M92.

The cavitation in the Gelatin was amazing.

I'm afraid I can't accept the stuff about air rushing back into the barrell causing recoil. a) I'm not sure there will be such a hard vacuum left in the barrell and b) the area of the bolt face is so small that the 15 psi of pressure at max won't do much.

That said your explanation makes sense of the muzzle brake/compensator. If you can give me a link to another explanation...please.

I must admit though being English I don't get to see guns that often so I'm working just from physics.


A. I didn't quite fully explain it...again. When the bullet leaves the barrel, the barrel will spring rearward due to the friction caused by the bullet, the air that rushes into the barrel will merely compound it.

This site explains it better than I can.

http://illumin.usc.edu/article.php?articleID=61&page=2

B. I don't know where you got 15 PSI from, since firearms operate in the thousands of PSI range. For example, SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Manufacturing Institute) rates 9mm at a standard of 35,000 PSI.

http://www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm


SAAMI website here: http://www.saami.org/

Not sure where you are getting friction and rushing air from. Newton's Third Law is all that's needed to explain recoil; the expansive release of energy used to propel a bullet forward also propels a gun backward. Muzzle breaks help this by diverting the energy in a direction other than forward/backward.

[SUBMAN1]

...to bad I've never fired a Barret anything in my life. I'd like to 'feel' the experience.

Its an experience that is pretty much different from anything else you've fired. I suggest you try! :D

One problem though - not many of them in civi hands either due to cost. By the time you add up scope and rifle, you are pushing in close to $10K without even buying the ammo yet. Add another $2 to $3 every time you pull the trigger too.

They make cheaper single shot version in the $4K range, but that's not as much fun!

-S