Cindy Sheehan quites, cuts up Dems for 'caving'

[Bill Nichols]

Breaks my heart :cry: ;)

Read about it here:

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070529/NEWS01/70529016/1006

[SUBMAN1]

Ohhhhh! How sad! It's been nice knowing you Cindy! Please don't let the door hit you on the way out! ;) :smug:

-S

[bradclark1]

I still say she was in a mental state and anti-war people took advantage of her.

[Heibges]

I'm not going to badmouth any Gold Star Mothers.

Bad bad Karma.

[The Avon Lady]

I still say she was in a mental state
Washington? :p


Just kidding!!! Just kidding!!!! :doh:

[geetrue]

It's the people that put a microphone in front of her face that caused all the trouble ... :yep:

By the way did Jane Fonda ever apoligize for her defending poor little ole North Vietnam?

[Heibges]

It's the people that put a microphone in front of her face that caused all the trouble ... :yep:

By the way did Jane Fonda ever apoligize for her defending poor little ole North Vietnam?

No, but she was vindicated by the number of times the United States has subsequently been backstabbed by the France.:lol:

[Sea Demon]

Hopefully she'll move to Venezuela to be with her hero Hugo Chavez. Remember how she said she's proud of Hugo because of the way he stands against the USA? Now she can go join him. :up: Good riddance to this attention sponging insect.

[Sailor Steve]

I still say she was in a mental state
Washington? :p


Just kidding!!! Just kidding!!!! :doh:

Why kidding? That was hilarious!:rotfl:

[Yahoshua]

"...Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love...."

I'm sure your son would've been proud to hear that Ms. Sheehan.:nope:

"....she planned to return to her native California. ' I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal,' "

Too late for that one Ms. Sheehan.

[SUBMAN1]

"...Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love...."

I'm sure your son would've been proud to hear that Ms. Sheehan.:nope:

"....she planned to return to her native California. ' I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal,' "

Too late for that one Ms. Sheehan.
How can one be normal in California? That state alone breeds people like Ms. Sheehan - people that are completely out of touch with reality. The only people I have known to live there and are somewhat normal got smart and left. Heibges on this board seems like the only somewhat sane one from that whole state! He probably has some sort of secret shielding device.

-S

[geetrue]

I thought she was from Texas, because she spent so much time standing around outside of Presdent Bush's ranch outside of Waco ... :lol:

[ASWnut101]

"...Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love...."

I'm sure your son would've been proud to hear that Ms. Sheehan.:nope:

"....she planned to return to her native California. ' I'm going home for awhile to try and be normal,' "

Too late for that one Ms. Sheehan.
How can one be normal in California? That state alone breeds people like Ms. Sheehan - people that are completely out of touch with reality. The only people I have known to live there and are somewhat normal got smart and left. Heibges on this board seems like the only somewhat sane one from that whole state! He probably has some sort of secret shielding device.

-S

Camaero seems sane, too. ;)


Oh, and Heibges, spill the beans on the shield. We may need it. :lol:

[Onkel Neal]

I thought she was from Texas, because she spent so much time standing around outside of Presdent Bush's ranch outside of Waco ... :lol:

Hey now!:o

[Enigma]

I think alot of you perhaps need to imagine the pain of losing your child for a reason you dont feel just. I dont defend sheehan, or her actions or words, but I dont stand in judgement of a woman who has felt grief beyond anything I can imagine. your not supposed to bury your kids.

[Sea Demon]

I think alot of you perhaps need to imagine the pain of losing your child for a reason you dont feel just. I dont defend sheehan, or her actions or words, but I dont stand in judgement of a woman who has felt grief beyond anything I can imagine. your not supposed to bury your kids.

You're not supposed to use your kid's military service and ultimate sacrifice to push your own political agenda's. ;) Despite her beliefs, she used her dead son as a prop for the anti-war movement, and his image to betray the US military mission on the battlefield. That is disgusting and seriously lacking in honor.

[Tchocky]

"...Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love...."

I'm sure your son would've been proud to hear that Ms. Sheehan.:nope:

Oh ffs.

[The Avon Lady]

"...Good-bye America ... you are not the country that I love...."

I'm sure your son would've been proud to hear that Ms. Sheehan.:nope:
Oh ffs.
Someone you should have known (http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/08/army_specialist.html).

[Tchocky]

I wasnt really angling towards the Sheehans, more towards Yah's ridiculous post. Whatever a dead person may "think" about a living person's actions, chances are Yahoshua doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and is trying to score points with emotive language.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Cindy Sheehan, or her family.

[NefariousKoel]

Actually, she seemed to have an extreme obsession (much like a crack whore) with the whole thing. Enough for a divorce and alienating her children. Very unstable.

Here's the whole thing straight from the horse's mouth:

"Good Riddance Attention Whore"
by CindySheehan
Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:57:01 AM PDT
I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti-war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention whore" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes.

CindySheehan's diary :: ::
I have come to some heartbreaking conclusions this Memorial Day Morning. These are not spur of the moment reflections, but things I have been meditating on for about a year now. The conclusions that I have slowly and very reluctantly come to are very heartbreaking to me.

The first conclusion is that I was the darling of the so-called left as long as I limited my protests to George Bush and the Republican Party. Of course, I was slandered and libeled by the right as a "tool" of the Democratic Party. This label was to marginalize me and my message. How could a woman have an original thought, or be working outside of our "two-party" system?

However, when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong."

I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don’t find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don’t see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person’s heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat?

I have also reached the conclusion that if I am doing what I am doing because I am an "attention whore" then I really need to be committed. I have invested everything I have into trying to bring peace with justice to a country that wants neither. If an individual wants both, then normally he/she is not willing to do more than walk in a protest march or sit behind his/her computer criticizing others. I have spent every available cent I got from the money a "grateful" country gave me when they killed my son and every penny that I have received in speaking or book fees since then. I have sacrificed a 29 year marriage and have traveled for extended periods of time away from Casey’s brother and sisters and my health has suffered and my hospital bills from last summer (when I almost died) are in collection because I have used all my energy trying to stop this country from slaughtering innocent human beings. I have been called every despicable name that small minds can think of and have had my life threatened many times.

The most devastating conclusion that I reached this morning, however, was that Casey did indeed die for nothing. His precious lifeblood drained out in a country far away from his family who loves him, killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think. I have tried every since he died to make his sacrifice meaningful. Casey died for a country which cares more about who will be the next American Idol than how many people will be killed in the next few months while Democrats and Republicans play politics with human lives. It is so painful to me to know that I bought into this system for so many years and Casey paid the price for that allegiance. I failed my boy and that hurts the most.

I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won’t work with that group; he won’t attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions.

Our brave young men and women in Iraq have been abandoned there indefinitely by their cowardly leaders who move them around like pawns on a chessboard of destruction and the people of Iraq have been doomed to death and fates worse than death by people worried more about elections than people. However, in five, ten, or fifteen years, our troops will come limping home in another abject defeat and ten or twenty years from then, our children’s children will be seeing their loved ones die for no reason, because their grandparents also bought into this corrupt system. George Bush will never be impeached because if the Democrats dig too deeply, they may unearth a few skeletons in their own graves and the system will perpetuate itself in perpetuity.

I am going to take whatever I have left and go home. I am going to go home and be a mother to my surviving children and try to regain some of what I have lost. I will try to maintain and nurture some very positive relationships that I have found in the journey that I was forced into when Casey died and try to repair some of the ones that have fallen apart since I began this single-minded crusade to try and change a paradigm that is now, I am afraid, carved in immovable, unbendable and rigidly mendacious marble.

Camp Casey has served its purpose. It’s for sale. Anyone want to buy five beautiful acres in Crawford , Texas ? I will consider any reasonable offer. I hear George Bush will be moving out soon, too...which makes the property even more valuable.

This is my resignation letter as the "face" of the American anti-war movement. This is not my "Checkers" moment, because I will never give up trying to help people in the world who are harmed by the empire of the good old US of A, but I am finished working in, or outside of this system. This system forcefully resists being helped and eats up the people who try to help it. I am getting out before it totally consumes me or anymore people that I love and the rest of my resources.

Good-bye America ...you are not the country that I love and I finally realized no matter how much I sacrifice, I can’t make you be that country unless you want it.

It’s up to you now.

[Tchocky]

It's a game of one-upmanship tonight, anyway. crack whore, horse, whatever.

What she says about party loyalty stands up, unlike some of the rest.

It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on.

Should be stickied on every US politics thread.

[NefariousKoel]

It's a game of one-upmanship tonight, anyway. crack whore, horse, whatever.

What she says about party loyalty stands up, unlike some of the rest.

It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on.
Should be stickied on every US politics thread.

Maybe so. And she should be used as a perfect example of how looney people can become.

My mention of her alienating her own family in her pursuits still stands. So I won't use much that she says as an example with a straight face.

[Tchocky]

My mention of her alienating her own family in her pursuits still stands. So I won't use much that she says as an example with a straight face.

It stands, yeah, but it doesn't really mean anything.

It's not like divorces are rare things. If you believe in something as strongly as she appears to, then there's is no limit to how far you'll go.
The effect of her actions on her family in no way invalidate those actions.
If someone disagrees with her, fine. But hold her to her beliefs and actions, and not her family life. It smells like desperation to me

but

as previously stated, don't care

[NefariousKoel]

My mention of her alienating her own family in her pursuits still stands. So I won't use much that she says as an example with a straight face.
It stands, yeah, but it doesn't really mean anything.

It's not like divorces are rare things. If you believe in something as strongly as she appears to, then there's is no limit to how far you'll go.
The effect of her actions on her family in no way invalidate those actions.
If someone disagrees with her, fine. But hold her to her beliefs and actions, and not her family life. It smells like desperation to me

but

as previously stated, don't care

I didn't notice much about her other children disagreeing with her. I noticed that she alienated them ... like a crack addict. Do you not see a problem with this indicator??

[bradclark1]

By the way did Jane Fonda ever apoligize for her defending poor little ole North Vietnam?
Yes, she did it a couple of times but has made no difference mostly but she is creeping back into stardom.

[Sea Demon]

By the way did Jane Fonda ever apoligize for her defending poor little ole North Vietnam? Yes, she did it a couple of times but has made no difference mostly but she is creeping back into stardom.

Did that really seem like an apology to you?

[Frau_Phillips]

This whole anti-war obsession she had shows all the characteristics of an unhealthy coping mechanism she started so she wouldn't have to face the reality of losing her son.

Some people focus on alcohol, some on their weight, and others on causes when their emotions turn too big to handle. It's an obsession, an addiction if you will, and I'm glad she could "kick it."

[bradclark1]

By the way did Jane Fonda ever apoligize for her defending poor little ole North Vietnam? Yes, she did it a couple of times but has made no difference mostly but she is creeping back into stardom.

Did that really seem like an apology to you?
There is nothing she can say to change my mind about her. I'm just saying she apoligized twice and that it mostly made no difference to vets.

[Tchocky]

I didn't notice much about her other children disagreeing with her. I noticed that she alienated them ... like a crack addict. Do you not see a problem with this indicator??
Do you want to back this up, and maybe quit it with the crack addict comparison? It's irrelevant and unhelpful
Also,

It stands, yeah, but it doesn't really mean anything.

meh

[The Avon Lady]

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to really care. :hmm:

[Tchocky]

For someone who doesn't care, you seem to really care. :hmm:

yeah, I don't know why I'm here

*stretch*

anyone for tennis?

[waste gate]

How long did it take her to realize she was being used? Four, five years?

[Yahoshua]

I wasnt really angling towards the Sheehans, more towards Yah's ridiculous post. Whatever a dead person may "think" about a living person's actions, chances are Yahoshua doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and is trying to score points with emotive language.




And you can make this claim of me based on what? Speculation? Anger? Scientific Wild-Assed Guess?

Those words I quoted came from a woman who has no love for this country, yet her son enlisted not once but twice. He knew what he was doing, and for her to slander the nation her son chose to serve and claim that his death was in vain is no different from spitting on his grave in "appreciation" of his service.

I didn't quote her to "score points with emotive language," I quoted her as a means of condemnation for what she said.

[Platapus]

I think alot of you perhaps need to imagine the pain of losing your child for a reason you dont feel just. I dont defend sheehan, or her actions or words, but I dont stand in judgement of a woman who has felt grief beyond anything I can imagine. your not supposed to bury your kids.

Well said!

She was exercising her rights to state her opinion. No matter if I agree or disagree with her, I did fight for her right to speak her mind.

I feel the same way about Cindy as I feel about any of the "pro-war" mothers who have lost children - I hope they can find peace with their loss :(

[Enigma]

This whole anti-war obsession she had shows all the characteristics of an unhealthy coping mechanism she started so she wouldn't have to face the reality of losing her son.

Some people focus on alcohol, some on their weight, and others on causes when their emotions turn too big to handle. It's an obsession, an addiction if you will, and I'm glad she could "kick it."

Wow, the newest, prettiest member of Subsim is proven smarter than all the old cranky war horses around here. Fascinating. ;)

[Ishmael]

I read the letter and am familiar with Vacaville having lived in Northern California for 30 odd years. All she wanted to hear from our beloved Feuhrer was the reason her son had to die. All Herr Bush wanted was a prop for a photo opportunity. If there is a problem with California it's that we're just too damned friendly for our own good, It's the reason I finally had to leave to afford a house. Her main reason was finding elements of the democratic left(DLC types) smearing her like Republicans. I thank her for her tireless work ending this filthy oil war and hope she can find some peace.

[blue3golf]

work ending this filthy oil war and hope she can find some peace.

She would have had all the peace she needed if she wouldn't have disgraced her son by opening her mouth the way she did. As for oil war, it sure didn't bring prices down and if you look into it there isn't all that much oil in Iraq anyway compared to other sources. Either way at least I don't have to hear her uneducated whining anymore, she can talk when she does her time, she sure hasn't earned the right by supporting something her son believed in, or any other way for that matter.

[Enigma]

This whole idea that Sheehan "disgraced" her son by utilizing the very freedoms to disagree with our leaders that men and women in uniform fight for and the President abuses is so incredibly and alarmingly twisted and misguided, I wouldnt know where to start. Anywho, lets not pretend anyone has done more global damage to the reputation of the United States and its military forces more than the sitting administration.

[fatty]

This whole idea that Sheehan "disgraced" her son by utilizing the very freedoms to disagree with our leaders that men and women in uniform fight for and the President abuses is so incredibly and alarmingly twisted and misguided, I wouldnt know where to start. Anywho, lets not pretend anyone has done more global damage to the reputation of the United States and its military forces more than the sitting administration.

Extremely well said.

[Ishmael]

work ending this filthy oil war and hope she can find some peace.

She would have had all the peace she needed if she wouldn't have disgraced her son by opening her mouth the way she did. As for oil war, it sure didn't bring prices down and if you look into it there isn't all that much oil in Iraq anyway compared to other sources. Either way at least I don't have to hear her uneducated whining anymore, she can talk when she does her time, she sure hasn't earned the right any other way.

The plan was not to bring oil prices down, but to enforce OPEC market discipline and remove a threat to the Saudis. What other possible reason is there. Especially with us staying for 50 years now. That will be just about as long as the oil will last. Here's the Link to that.
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3041621320070530?pageNumber=1

We're already holding up economic reconstruction money until the Iraqis pass the privatization bill that will give US oil companies long term access to 70% of Iraqi's current fields. Link here:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/03/30/201/


I hate to disabuse you but the oil was never for us. It's for the emerging economic powerhouses of China & India. They're the ones financing the US debt among others. Why do you think Halliburton is moving their Corporate HQ to Dubai, out of reach of US investigatory agencies.

If you really look at all the prewar reasons for attacking Iraq, they've already been acheived. No WMDs, Saddam dead & a freely elected Iraqi government. So why did Casey Sheehan have to make the supreme sacrifice? Why are more troops dying trying to referee a civil war? Why do we need to keep troops for 50 years? So if you think Mr. Bush is right, start training your grandchildren in small-unit infantry tactics and urban warfare now. They're going to need it when they grow up.

[geetrue]

Ishmael ... stop and think if you had a baby boy today ... the little boy would be seventeen months and a few days old
when a new president will be elected. lol

You don't have to train your baby to do anything besides go to the bathroom.

This problem will be Mr Mccain's problem by then, plus a nation paying over $4.00 a gal for gas by then, due to a hurricane or greedy oil companies or something, but not because we are still fighting terroist in Iraq.

That oil belongs to Iraq ... what we have spent in fighting the war on terror is not going to come back to the US Treasury through any legal or illegal means. It is estimated that 9/11 cost America over one trillion dollars. Almost six years of no major attacks on American soil indicates that we are doing the right thing by taking the conflict to them.

The only other option President Bush had was to do nothing ... hold up his hands and say, "Okay terroist we can't find your well hidden leader so we don't know what to do"

Our President did the right thing in taking out Saddam and his two sons and I think he will go down in history as a good president that served our country well. He has a very hard job with tough decisions to make everyday.

I know he cares and despite all of the polls based on popularity giving him bad press ... he could win the next election (limited to two terms in the USA)
against a Hillary or Obama. :smug:

[NefariousKoel]

This whole anti-war obsession she had shows all the characteristics of an unhealthy coping mechanism she started so she wouldn't have to face the reality of losing her son.

Some people focus on alcohol, some on their weight, and others on causes when their emotions turn too big to handle. It's an obsession, an addiction if you will, and I'm glad she could "kick it."
Wow, the newest, prettiest member of Subsim is proven smarter than all the old cranky war horses around here. Fascinating. ;)

You missed me likening her obsession to being a crack addict, then. I might be a cranky b@stard but most anyone could've seen her disorder.

And who you callin' old?!:x

[The Avon Lady]

Video: Thanks for the Memories (http://hotair.com/archives/2007/05/31/video-new-vent-thanks-for-the-memories-cindy/). :D

[bradclark1]

Almost six years of no major attacks on American soil indicates that we are doing the right thing by taking the conflict to them.

How many soldiers have died? How many Iraqi's have died?

The only other option President Bush had was to do nothing ... hold up his hands and say, "Okay terroist we can't find your well hidden leader so we don't know what to do"
You have Iraq and Afghanistan mixed up.


Our President did the right thing in taking out Saddam and his two sons and I think he will go down in history as a good president that served our country well. He has a very hard job with tough decisions to make everyday.
Wasn't a clear and present danger to the U.S. This administration just had a hard-on for Saddam. Refer to VP's comment that it didn't matter if they had WMD. They would have invaded anyway.

I know he cares and despite all of the polls based on popularity giving him bad press ... he could win the next election (limited to two terms in the USA)
against a Hillary or Obama. :smug:
Yeah, right.:shifty:

[Sea Demon]

Wasn't a clear and present danger to the U.S. This administration just had a hard-on for Saddam. Refer to VP's comment that it didn't matter if they had WMD. They would have invaded anyway.


Don't make me go dig up comments from Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Chuck Schumer, etc. about how he was a clear and present danger. Not to mention, I think you may want to go read the cease fire agreement and UN resolutions from GW1 which gave invasion and removal of Saddam as a resort for noncompliance. They may have had motivations to get rid of Saddam, but they were certainly within their right to do so according to the first cease fire agreement. And I say good riddance to Saddam.

[bradclark1]

Don't make me go dig up comments from Bill Clinton, Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, Al Gore, Chuck Schumer, etc. about how he was a clear and present danger. Not to mention, I think you may want to go read the cease fire agreement and UN resolutions from GW1 which gave invasion and removal of Saddam as a resort for noncompliance. They may have had motivations to get rid of Saddam, but they were certainly within their right to do so according to the first cease fire agreement. And I say good riddance to Saddam.
If you are talking about the intelligence that this administration gave, we've all heard enough that pressure was brought to bear on the reports. The difference between good and bad is that if you take your country to war you better be right. Excuses has a range of zero. You have to be right.
President Clinton in 1998 said Iraq was a clear and present danger to the middle east and American "interests", not America.

Not to mention, I think you may want to go read the cease fire agreement and UN resolutions from GW1 which gave invasion and removal of Saddam as a resort for noncompliance.
Was it the UN or US that attacked?

[Sea Demon]

If you are talking about the intelligence that this administration gave, we've all heard enough that pressure was brought to bear on the reports. The difference between good and bad is that if you take your country to war you better be right. Excuses has a range of zero. You have to be right.
President Clinton in 1998 said Iraq was a clear and present danger to the middle east and American "interests", not America.

Talk about splitting hairs....anyway....

http://brentroos.com/2006/05/09/what-did-the-democrats-say-about-iraqs-wmd/

Bush was right in taking us to war. The WMD claims were wrong, but there was still the cease fire agreements from GW1. And many Democrats agreed about the threat assessments. Now they cowardly turn the other direction and claim they never supported the war, and never made these claims. I just wish Bush would conduct the endgame properly.

Was it the UN or US that attacked?

Well obviously the UN has no teeth. But this just proves the uselessness of the UN. The U.S. itself should have set the surrender terms and compliance with Iraq directly after GW1 and treated the UN as the irrelevant body that it is. Perhaps part of that unconditional surrender should have been Saddam either stepping down or we continue on to Baghdad.

[bradclark1]

If you are talking about the intelligence that this administration gave, we've all heard enough that pressure was brought to bear on the reports. The difference between good and bad is that if you take your country to war you better be right. Excuses has a range of zero. You have to be right.
President Clinton in 1998 said Iraq was a clear and present danger to the middle east and American "interests", not America.

Talk about splitting hairs....anyway....

http://brentroos.com/2006/05/09/what-did-the-democrats-say-about-iraqs-wmd/

Bush was right in taking us to war. The WMD claims were wrong, but there was still the cease fire agreements from GW1. And many Democrats agreed about the threat assessments. Now they cowardly turn the other direction and claim they never supported the war, and never made these claims. I just wish Bush would conduct the endgame properly.

Was it the UN or US that attacked?

Well obviously the UN has no teeth. But this just proves the uselessness of the UN. The U.S. itself should have set the surrender terms and compliance with Iraq directly after GW1 and treated the UN as the irrelevant body that it is. Perhaps part of that unconditional surrender should have been Saddam either stepping down or we continue on to Baghdad.
Yeah. Any old reason will do. What was it, we went through three or four different reasons?
The democrats supported the war because they believed the erroneous information this administration was putting out. That point even isn't worth arguing about anymore.
Yes the UN is spineless but who are we to use them as an excuse to invade a sovereign nation. (even if we dislike the leader)
My whole problem with this administration is that they did a half ass-ed job in Afghanistan, didn't accomplish the main reason for invading in the first place and left a token division behind that because of the regions size were incapable of doing anything in their rush to get to Saddam. While doing this they fire those who don't agree with their invade on the cheap doctrine then dump the Iraqi army so that 400,000 possible insurgents sitting around with no means of support. How utterly stupid is that? And all this from two fellow Americans who did whatever they had to do to stay out of harms way during Vietnam. Two warriors whose philosophy is "send anyone but me". Afghanistan was a had too. Iraq was not.
Forgive the rant but thats my feelings.

[Sea Demon]

Yeah. Any old reason will do. What was it, we went through three or four different reasons?
The democrats supported the war because they believed the erroneous information this administration was putting out. That point even isn't worth arguing about anymore.
Yes the UN is spineless but who are we to use them as an excuse to invade a sovereign nation. (even if we dislike the leader)
My whole problem with this administration is that they did a half ass-ed job in Afghanistan, didn't accomplish the main reason for invading in the first place and left a token division behind that because of the regions size were incapable of doing anything in their rush to get to Saddam. While doing this they fire those who don't agree with their invade on the cheap doctrine then dump the Iraqi army so that 400,000 possible insurgents sitting around with no means of support. How utterly stupid is that? And all this from two fellow Americans who did whatever they had to do to stay out of harms way during Vietnam. Two warriors whose philosophy is "send anyone but me". Afghanistan was a had too. Iraq was not.
Forgive the rant but thats my feelings.
No reason to apologize for ranting. But the pre-war intelligence came largely from the Clinton Administration. That administration called Saddam a threat that was pursuing WMD and ignoring the cease fire agreements. History doesn't begin with Bush here. The Bush government was actually following the Clinton administration policy regarding Iraq. But if you're a Democrat, it seems the truth inconveniently gets in the way of blaming Bush for everything. Saddam, terrorism, the cease fire agreements, the GW1 UN resolutions, and the U.S. government threat assessments and WMD intelligence all came before G.W. Bush.

And if we can't enforce UN resolutions, why the hell do we even bother with the UN? It's obvious that UN resolutions are worthless edicts. Even Saddam knew that the UN was a fools paradise. Why is it that the Democrats told us we needed to go to the UN for some type of permission from them to strike? The UN is utterly useless. I agree with you on this point. We should have handled the end of GW1 ourselves and told everybody else to stuff it. That way, their own resolution is no excuse. Because it would effectively be a non-player like it truly is.

Bush is not handling the war correctly. That is not in dispute. And he is to blame for not putting the right amount of people on the ground, and unleashing them to do the job as viciously as it needs to be done. But it would help if the Democrats weren't giving aid and comfort to our enemies by calling this war "unwinnable". And it would also help if people like Harry Reid weren't saying we already lost despite soldiers being actively deployed in theater. Bush is handling the war like a buffoon. The Democrat party is handling the war like traitors.