Disgusting, mad, off-limits

[Skybird]

First Big Brother, now this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6699847.stm

Gladiator fights and live coverage of patients dying in hospital next? All under the label of "reality report" and "charity", of course - so how could one be against it?

Variation of it: soft drink companies and beer producers advertising with this: if you buy their drinks, 10% or so of the price goes into water support projects in the third world, of saving two trees in the rainforest. Implication: "If you don't drink our drinks, you are a selfish, non-solidaric egoist who does not care for people in the third world. how dare you...?" That such drinks are brought into places with intact water supplies, wehere they cause more and more a garbage problem (plastic bottles), in other areas the natural water ressources are depleted because company pump off the water to fill it into their bottles and sell it elsewhere, is not mentioned, of course.

[kiwi_2005]

Yes that is madness, only way to stop this is if everyone switched off their TV when it was on, or change the channel, low ratings means end of show.

The terminal kidney is going to far...

[Skybird]

Redefreiheit hin, Zensursfreiheit her - I would simply prohibit it - period. This endless laissez-faire, and unlimited tolerance that burst with truckloads of reasonable criticism and how morally querstionable something is, it leads nowhere and only helps to raise the publicity level, helping to raise the curiosity of the audience - increasing the TV quote they get by that.

If somebody comes up with a sick idea like this and puts it to reality, he already has proven by that that he is completely beyond reach of moral arguments and reasonable debates. So why wasting the time?

The West is rotting from within. We do not need foreign enemies anymore to destroy us - we do it ourselves.

[Yahoshua]

Just like Rome......

[Frau_Phillips]

And yet millions of people will watch it. It's kind of like a car accident.

[AntEater]

The Netherlands have a history of pushing TV entertainment to the limit.
John de Mol poineered pretty much every TV entertainment format that is currently running (Big Brother, all those "idol" casting shows, etc) so I'm afraid this new format is here to stay...

[Letum]

I don't mind this as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. :D

[Jimbuna]

Absolutely ridicolous....what will the week afters episode be about ? Undertakers challenging for the burial rights!! :nope:

[bradclark1]

Thats pretty sick alright. Show's what society is turning into.
Gladiators would probably be pay per view though. Bummer.

[Skybird]

I don't mind this as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. :D
Veto!

If you feed such crap (like this TV show) to the public - and the young! - do not expect them to become clever and more responsibly acting in later years of their lives, or when they have grown up. Allow crap TV, and actively form and create a crap population by that.

"Du bist was du isst."

[TteFAboB]

Redefreiheit hin, Zensursfreiheit her - I would simply prohibit it - period. This endless laissez-faire, and unlimited tolerance that burst with truckloads of reasonable criticism and how morally querstionable something is, it leads nowhere.

If it didn't lead nowhere there wouldn't be a problem, would it? But of course it leads somewhere:

The West is rotting from within. We do not need foreign enemies anymore to destroy us - we do it ourselves.

sick idea like this and puts it to reality, he already has proven by that that he is completely beyond reach of moral arguments and reasonable debates. So why wasting the time?

All prohibition is prohibited. If you didn't noticed, the show is only meant to raise awareness to the shortage of organ donors! How can you be so insensitive and cruel? People will die because of you. Anyway, the show is just a little early. It should appear after a desensitization campaign and prepare the ground for the final offensive, the legalization of the Organ market. "The young! - do not expect them to become clever and more responsibly acting in later years of their years, or when they have grown up", as you say, will not fall to it as easily, the thing is already sparking negative reactions. They may keep it in their minds but they will also have easy access to the contrary opinion. So where would it fit in the order? It sure could be used as a pre-campaign probing of public opinion. Far more reaching and broad than an opinion poll and far cheaper than a global poll - the press will help achieve the same results for free.

Collect everything that is said against it and you'll be prepared beforehand when the real showtime comes. Wether the producers know it or not, as long as the tables are not fully turned in a backfire, they may end up paying a service to the proponents of the legal organ market.

[FIREWALL]

Just saw news report on Netherlands Kidney transplant reality show on News this morning. Was disturbing until it was brought to my attention that organ doners are at a low in the Netherlands.

This might have not been the best way to show this problem that is prevaliant in the world. But it needs to be addressed.


Give the gift of Life ... Get and carry your donar card.

I have to be the first to admit I wouldn't wish my old parts on anyone but....:D

[Skybird]

The cause does not justify every means, I think.

Some more reality TV enlightenment:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6700327.stm

[FIREWALL]

[quote=Skybird]The cause does not justify every means, I think.

Your right not every means. But TV, News And Internet will use any mediam to get what they want to get across. Sad sometimes as it is.

[Letum]

I don't mind this as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. :D Veto!

If you feed such crap (like this TV show) to the public - and the young! - do not expect them to become clever and more responsibly acting in later years of their years, or when they have grown up. Allow crap TV, and actively form and create a crap population by that.

"Du bist was du isst."

Ahhh! Tish!

Many years ago people said the same thing about jazz music!

[Yahoshua]

Jazz is just that, music.

Jazz is not anywhere near as influential as television.

[Letum]

Jazz is just that, music.

Jazz is not anywhere near as influential as television.

Thats my point! people over estimated the influance. I belive they are doing it again.

[kiwi_2005]

I don't mind this as long as everyone involved is happy with the arrangement. :D Veto!

If you feed such crap (like this TV show) to the public - and the young! - do not expect them to become clever and more responsibly acting in later years of their years, or when they have grown up. Allow crap TV, and actively form and create a crap population by that.

"Du bist was du isst."
Ahhh! Tish!

Many years ago people said the same thing about jazz music!

Your a funny man what drink do you drink, i want some of that!

[jumpy]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind drawing the public awareness to the issues of the lack of donor organs by using shock tactics.

But... I think it says something about a society which needs such a drastic measure to bring the plight of those who need replacement organs to the fore front of peoples attention. That is more disturbing than the actual concept of the show and its precept.

All the same having said that, it is in pretty poor taste reducing it to a competition on such a base level whichever way you look at it. :hmm:

The mere fact that it has the 'big brother' brand name attached to it means that even if it was aired on British tv I wouldn't watch it anyway.

[Skybird]

I can appreciate the sentiment behind drawing the public awareness to the issues of the lack of donor organs by using shock tactics.

But... I think it says something about a society which needs such a drastic measure to bring the plight of those who need replacement organs to the fore front of peoples attention. That is more disturbing than the actual concept of the show and its precept.

All the same having said that, it is in pretty poor taste reducing it to a competition on such a base level whichever way you look at it. :hmm:

The mere fact that it has the 'big brother' brand name attached to it means that even if it was aired on British tv I wouldn't watch it anyway.
People should give organ donor some serious thinking as long as they still have the time. I don't like it when people neither say yes or no simply because they are too lazy to make a decision and think about it.

But that does not mean that everybody must agree on it being the right thing for him to do. people may have reasons why they do not wish to do it. and this then has to be accepted. I myself always carry a card in my wallet, saying that a "Patientenverfügung" (health care directive?) is available both with my parents and my lawyer. The card also summarises major points in that document concerning what kind if treatments I accept under what circumstances, and what not. I have strictly ruled out to receive a foreign organ in case I am not reaching a clear mind again so that I could be asked and think about the variables of the situation I am in. I also have ruled out that my organs are automatically donated in case my mind does not awaken again (after I had an accident, for example). It does not mean that I would never do it. But I want to have the opportunity to judge myself the situation i am in, and the details which makes every situation unique. Living as long as possible, no matter the material - and non-material - costs, is a crazy modern concept I do not buy. Neither with regard to others, nor with regard to myself. So, my decision depends. And if fate rejects me the chance to weigh myself the pro and con of the situation in question, my answer is no.

[kurtz]

And yet millions of people will watch it. It's kind of like a car accident.

yeah and the more people complain the more will watch it and probably phone in and make them loads.

I've got rid of my telly now, I found that everything that was shown was utter rubbish if not offensive. (In England there's a tax on TV and if you say you don't have one they just don't believe you).

ps Love your sig.

[Letum]

Jazz is just that, music.

Jazz is not anywhere near as influential as television.
Thats my point! people over estimated the influance. I belive they are doing it again. Then you are not aware of the influence these people project in the political and Christian right in the US. 2005 Bush agreed in public that their views should become part of official teaching in public schools. In Kansas, so says wikipedia, their views are taught in schools in fact, which lead to two major science associations withdrawing all their support in material and personnel from assisting public schools (which probably is exactly what creationists hoped to achieve). The American Civil Liberties Union commented on a law case they had over there, saying that they support the ruling from that case that teaching creationism in schools is violating the constitution. There were also a number of scandals concerning schools where creationists tried to enforce the teaching of their views even against valid laws and court rulings.

Laut einer Umfrage Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life (http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pew_Forum_on_Religion_and_Public_L ife&action=edit) (2005) glauben etwa 26 Prozent der US-Bevölkerung, dass sich das Leben über Jahrmillionen durch natürliche Auslese entwickelt habe. Dass ein höheres Wesen die Entwicklung der Lebewesen gesteuert hat, stimmen 18 Prozent zu. Während insgesamt 48 Prozent an eine Entwicklung der Lebewesen glauben, sind 42 Prozent der Ansicht, dass „die Lebewesen seit Anbeginn der Zeit in ihrer heutigen Form existierten“. Außerdem befürwortet die Mehrheit der US-Amerikaner, dass in den Schulen beides nebeneinander gelehrt werden soll.[6] (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kreationismus#_note-5)
Insbesondere die Faktoren Alter und Ausbildung bestimmen dabei die Einstellung der US-Amerikaner. So akzeptieren von den College-Absolventen etwa 40 Prozent die natürliche Auslese im Gegensatz zu 18 Prozent bei den Amerikanern ohne College-Ausbildung. Die Hälfte der Amerikaner mit einem Alter über 65 akzeptiert den Kreationismus, verglichen mit 37 Prozent bei den unter 30-Jährigen. This quote again is from wikipedia, saying that only 26% of Americans believe in evolutionary selection over millions of years, 18% believe in some superior entity having influenced it, 42% believe that all lifeforms have been created by someone and have exiosted in their current state since since all of time. It also says that 40% of those who finished high school, prefer the evolution theory, while amongst those not having been at high school only 18% are agreeing on evolution theory. Half of those older than 65 years, and 38% of those under the age of 30 accept creationism. - All in all this is an example that the best weapon against religiously motivated narrow-mindedness or even fanaticism is - education. That's why religious education in so many cases tries to prevent their children from being educated properly, and isolate them from everything that is not written in their holy books. such people having access to enormous financial and economical resources, even military and nuclear options, is a perspective I do not live well with.

to make it clear, I do not attack a community that is peaceful, does not mistreat or abuse it's members and children, and does not run an agenda to take over a state, a nation, foreign cultures, and does not push it's ideas by propaganda, intrigues or violence. I do not know much about them (only what was said in that famous movie, "Witness"), but the Amish for example seem to be such a group. If they are like they were depicted in that movie - no problem for me. I may be wrong, I really don't know much more about them than what the movie said. But creationists as well - and even far more aggressive - scientologists are something different. I have identified them as a thread and for that reason consider them a valid target. I attack them wherever they stroll over my way. Aggressive sectarian missionaries occasionally appeared and still appear on my doorstep. when I do not play games with them and trap them with their own rhetorical cheats and tricks (after all I got some solid training in talking techniques, body language and hypno-therapy :) ), I kick them out. I am co-owner of the property and house I live in, so I have the right to speak out a sending-off as well as an unlimited prohibition of entering our place again (they aren't invited by anyone here, so they cannot claim a right for public access).

Thankfully, there are also signs of reason:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/national/28utah.html?ex=1180670400&en=641ab215249143a6&ei=5070
In past years, their were several scandals and incidents where creationists tried to push their agenda in schools. American medias often took and take nationwide notice of it.

With economy and ecology mounting increasing problems in the foreseeable future, and by that raising existential fears amongst people, I expect political as well as religious extremism growing. The consequences from that will be felt on a global, international, intercultural level.

Damn - I ruined the fun-fun-fun-party again... :-? Wrong thread? :hmm: :88)

Thats what I was thinking. A little off topis isn't it SB?

[The Avon Lady]

Thats what I was thinking. A little off topis isn't it SB?
I believe he meant to post it on this thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=115689).

[Skybird]

Now I'm getting seriously worried:
- nightmares this night (extremely rare, only happening every couple of years),
- putting salt in my coffee this morning,
- having searched keys for half an hours,
- during a telephone call assuming for minutes that today is Friday,
- posting that wild boar story although it alreayd was there,
- and now linking the jazz quote to that thread about the creationist museum story, generating a mixed answer, and then place it in the wrong place.

Definitely not my day.
I need some holidays, I think.

I copy it over there, and delete it in this thread. Sorry, Leturm, I shouldn't have gotten out of bed today.

[FIREWALL]

[quote=Frau_Phillips]And yet millions of people will watch it. It's kind of like a car accident.

yeah and the more people complain the more will watch it and probably phone in and make them loads.

I've got rid of my telly now, (In England there's a tax on TV


How are you going to know when they triple your Internet fee and tax your Computer.:rotfl:

[Q3ark]

The Netherlands have a history of pushing TV entertainment to the limit.
John de Mol poineered pretty much every TV entertainment format that is currently running (Big Brother, all those "idol" casting shows, etc) so I'm afraid this new format is here to stay...

Hmm so he's the git responsible for the degredation of British tv. Every time i turn the thing on its bloody pop idol this or big brother that, the only thing i watch these days is top gear, worth the licence fee all by itself:up:

[TteFAboB]

What a coincidence. The Eurobarometer has just released a report of a survey done at the end of last year on organ donation.

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_272d_en.pdf

My, my, what a surprise, one of the questions is: "Have you ever discussed organ donation with your family?" Netherlands leads the "Yes" rank at 75%.

On the other questions the country is always ranked near the top. But I haven't read this, just looked at the pretty figures. I suppose Endemol was expecting a warmer welcome to the show both in the NL and in the UK.

EDIT: Another coincidence, this same month the EU's Health official will start campaining for an EU-wide donor card: http://euobserver.com/9/24153

Brussels says the more the somewhat taboo issue is discussed within a family, the higher the willingness to donate.

This comes from the survey I mentioned above, it's the question I quoted.

"The most cost-effective means of increasing public willingness to donate seems to be improving the knowledge of health professionals and the media about transplantation issues," the commission's paper states.

But the latest attempt in the Netherlands to break the taboo on the issue has been strongly criticized.

Ah, this show was the latest attempt to break the taboo...how convenient it would have been had it not backfired somewhat.

I have noticed a small problem though:

Women should have rights over their bodies. Except when it comes to organs? These should be extracted. Interesting. You have the right to have your organs extracted. Seems like they give you a right to take something away from you in return. Clever. You think you're smart and priviledged, next thing you know you're one kidney short and your "right" can't filter blood as effectively.

[CCIP]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6714063.stm


HOAX! :hmm:

[Jimbuna]

Bloody sad if you ask me :nope:

[TteFAboB]

:o Fantastic. To condense everything:

My first assumption was wrong. It was extremely naive of me to suppose that the EU would be so smart as to use a reality show as an opinion survey. That would not only be free, but perhaps even turn out a little profit! No, the EU has jobs to justify and money to spend that would otherwise be redirected to a different department.

Yesterday there was still doubt wether the declarations of intentions were a last minute excuse to cover a fiasco or sincere. After this news it pends towards sincerity. However it started (did the government seek them first or vice-versa?), the show was neatly inserted in-between a chain of coincidences.

The chronological order of my known facts is this:

1) A real survey was done in October-November last year but conveniently reported at the beginning of May.

2) Assuming the producers are sincere and not hiding behind false intentions, from the very beginning this thing was meant to be a debate kick-starter, a trigger. No doubt that given the results of the survey they were expecting a warmer welcome, especially in Holland. The announcement about this show took place later in May.

3) At the end of May the EU's health commissioner starts a push for an EU-wide donor card. If the show had received a better reception not only would the H-commissar have his project approved in a flash but the favorable atmosphere could be carried over into June, allowing the EU to pass any other law it saw fit.

Now let's wait and see if this mess increases organ donations.

[Skybird]

Oups, this time they got me. I certainly thought it was real.

[Fish]

Oups, this time they got me. I certainly thought it was real.

Not just you. :oops:

[waste gate]

The moral of the story folks; If you don't believe in something, you'll fall for anything. 'Global warming' and 'climate change' comes to mind. Marxism and socialism are other examples. Political correctness.........the list goes on and on.

Here is another kidney story:
THIS IS TRUE STORY, RING THE BOTTOM NUMBER IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT!! Medical Centre phone number at the end of this story is real. This guy went out on a Saturday night a few weeks ago to a party. He was having a good time and had a couple of beers and some girl seemed to like him and invited him to go to another party. He quickly agreed and decided to go along with her. She took him to a party in some apartment and they continued to drink, and even got involved with some drug (unknown).

The next thing he knew, he woke up completely naked in a bathtub filled with ice. He was still feeling the effects of the drugs, but looked around to see he was alone. He looked down at his chest, which had CALL 000 or YOU'LL DIE" written on it with lipstick. He saw a phone was on a stand next to the tub so he picked it up and dialled. He explained to the EMS operator what the situation was and that he didn't know where he was, what he took, or why he was really calling. She advised him to get out of the tub. He did, and he appeared normal, so she told him to check his back. He did, he found two 9 inch slits on his lower back. She told him to get back into the tub immediately, and they sent a rescue team over.

Apparently, after being examined, he found out more of what had happened. His kidneys were stolen. They were worth $10,000 each in the black market.Several guesses are in order: The second party was a sham, the people involved had to be at least medical students and it was not just recreational drugs he was given. Regardless, he is currently in the hospital on a life support, awaiting a spare kidney. The University of Sydney in conjunction with the Royal Prince Alfred hospital is conducting tissue research to match the victim with a donor.

I wish to warn you about a new crime ring that is targeting business travellers. This ring is well organized and well funded, has very skilled personnel and is currently operating in most major cities around the world and recently very active in Sydney . The crime begins when a business traveller goes to a lounge for a drink at the end of the work day. A person in the bar walks up as they sit alone and offers to buy them a drink. The last thing the traveller remembers until they wake up in a hotel room bathtub, their body submerged to their neck in ice, is sipping that drink.

There is a note taped to the wall instructing them not to move and to call 000. A phone is on the small table next to the bathtub for them to call. The business traveller calls 000 who have been quite familiar with this crime. The business traveller is instructed by the 000 operator to very slowly and carefully reach behind them and feel there i s a tube protruding from the back. The business traveller finds the tube and answers "YES". The 000 operator tells them to remain still, having already sent paramedics to help. The operator knows that both of the traveller's kidneys had been harvested.

This is not a scam or out of science fiction novel. It is real. It is documented and confirmable. If you travel or someone close to you travels, please be careful. Sadly,this is very true. My friend's husband is a Sydney EMT and they have received alerts regarding this crime ring. It is to be taken very seriously. The daughter of a friend of a fire-fighter had this happen to her.

Skilled doctors are performing these crimes! (which, by the way have been highly noted in the Brisbane area). Additionally, the military has received alerts regarding this. I REALLY WANT AS MANY PEOPLE TO SEE THIS AS POSSIBLE SO PLEASE BOUNCE THIS TO WHOEVER YOU CAN. (Person's Name) DML/Lab Administration Medical Manager Research And Development [CONTACT DETAILS REMOVED]

PLEASE forward this to everyone you know

[kurtz]

The moral of the story folks; If you don't believe in something, you'll fall for anything. 'Global warming' and 'climate change' comes to mind. Marxism and socialism are other examples. Political correctness.........the list goes on and on.

Here is another kidney story:
THIS IS TRUE STORY, RING THE BOTTOM NUMBER IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT!! Medical Centre phone number at the end of this story is real. This guy went out on a Saturday night a few weeks ago to a party. He was having a good time and had a couple of beers and some girl seemed to like him and invited him to go to another party. He quickly agreed and decided to go along with her. She took him to a party in some apartment and they continued to drink, and even got involved with some drug (unknown)

The next thing he knew, he woke up completely naked in a bathtub filled with ice. He was still feeling the effects of the drugs, but looked around to see he was alone. He looked down at his chest, which had CALL 000 or YOU'LL DIE" written on it with lipstick. He saw a phone was on a stand next to the tub so he picked it up and dialled. He explained to the EMS operator what the situation was and that he didn't know where he was, what he took, or why he was really calling. She advised him to get out of the tub. He did, and he appeared normal, so she told him to check his back. He did, he found two 9 inch slits on his lower back. She told him to get back into the tub immediately, and they sent a rescue team over.

Apparently, after being examined, he found out more of what had happened. His kidneys were stolen. They were worth $10,000 each in the black market.Several guesses are in order: The second party was a sham, the people involved had to be at least medical students and it was not just recreational drugs he was given. Regardless, he is currently in the hospital on a life support, awaiting a spare kidney. The University of Sydney in conjunction with the Royal Prince Alfred hospital is conducting tissue research to match the victim with a donor.

I wish to warn you about a new crime ring that is targeting business travellers. This ring is well organized and well funded, has very skilled personnel and is currently operating in most major cities around the world and recently very active in Sydney . The crime begins when a business traveller goes to a lounge for a drink at the end of the work day. A person in the bar walks up as they sit alone and offers to buy them a drink. The last thing the traveller remembers until they wake up in a hotel room bathtub, their body submerged to their neck in ice, is sipping that drink.

There is a note taped to the wall instructing them not to move and to call 000. A phone is on the small table next to the bathtub for them to call. The business traveller calls 000 who have been quite familiar with this crime. The business traveller is instructed by the 000 operator to very slowly and carefully reach behind them and feel there i s a tube protruding from the back. The business traveller finds the tube and answers "YES". The 000 operator tells them to remain still, having already sent paramedics to help. The operator knows that both of the traveller's kidneys had been harvested.

This is not a scam or out of science fiction novel. It is real. It is documented and confirmable. If you travel or someone close to you travels, please be careful. Sadly,this is very true. My friend's husband is a Sydney EMT and they have received alerts regarding this crime ring. It is to be taken very seriously. The daughter of a friend of a fire-fighter had this happen to her.

Skilled doctors are performing these crimes! (which, by the way have been highly noted in the Brisbane area). Additionally, the military has received alerts regarding this. I REALLY WANT AS MANY PEOPLE TO SEE THIS AS POSSIBLE SO PLEASE BOUNCE THIS TO WHOEVER YOU CAN. (Person's Name) DML/Lab Administration Medical Manager Research And Development [CONTACT DETAILS REMOVED]

PLEASE forward this to everyone you know

Oh no! the phone numbers gone, I'm sure if I'd have rung it, the story would have been confirmed by a reliable witness, despite this looking like the usuall stupid kidneys stolen internet story.

I'm sure that like all the non believers in global warming, commie plots etc that the actual facts aren't important and what is important is the general theory that a tv prog. like this could be made.

It all seems so plausible combining all the tediousness of reality TV with the tacky grabbing for attention we in England have come to expect from Channel 4/Endemol-go ahead sue me guys.

I'm more inclined to believe they were floating this as an idea to see if there would be enough sick people to watch it.

M