Is the contact report project worth finishing?

[Canovaro]

Ahoy there,

As some of you know, besides my testing team, I am working on a little project for collecting contact reports from every SH3 player and put them on a map.

In short:
The player sends in contact reports (for now by email or pm) and they will be put online together on a map image as icons. The icons give info about uboat, kaleun, date, type of contact, grid, heading, speed, supermod etc, any info would be possible here. It's meant as a community thing and will be updated every couple of days or so.
The purpose is to have a collection of all our contacts to look back to and basically have an alternative option for the contact reports as in game.
This might also reveal hunting grounds / sea lanes etc.
Note: it is not my intention to find out exactly which ship is exactly where at exactly what moment, this is not possible as discussed before. Read this thread for more info (posts by johan_d among others):
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114147

There will also be a printer-friendly map (you can add waypoints etc) for reference while playing. I'm also working on an offline client, as an alternative to the website.
Here's a screenshot of the main screen with test contacts as it is so far.

http://kuijperonline.nl/weblink/cccp.jpg


I am about 90% finished with the whole thing, then somebody mentioned...the Spysat Mod.
If you don't know what this is, go here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=110227
This mod displayes every ship/convoy every game hour on the F5 map with info about date, type, general heading and speed.
So this can also be used to reveal shipping lanes and hot spots, in a way.

My question:
- Is my project worth finishing and keeping updated?
- Do you think the Spy Sat mod makes my work (partly) unnecessary?
- Are you interested at all in such a thing (enough to send contact reports)?

I would like to hear your thoughts :arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

I don't use any of the options you are referring to :nope:
You might want to consider the work it'll involve for you though :yep:
If I had to choose (and I stress, I don't use any) I would go for the spysat option (my son does anyhow) :lol:

[Brag]

The way I understand it, Spy Sat is more or less a cheat , which eliminates the realism of the period.

Your project is the gathering of intelligence just like it would have been done in WWII and is the result of indidual player's efforts. Indeed, it adds realism to the sim. :up:

[GoldenRivet]

i think you have a great idea... might be easier to make a kriegsmarine grid overlay on google earth and plot your contact reports that way instead though.

just a thought.

[KeptinCranky]

whoa! seems a lot of people wanted to respond faster than me :D

yes it's worth finishing, looks real good so far besides, the spysat mod feels a lot like cheating :-? whereas this project is :

a : community based, so all the info is gathered by your co-kaleuns, gives it a genuine feeling. as well as being something that can help in maintaining said community

b: always incomplete, so no stuff like spysat where you can flawlessly home in on a particular convoy. gives a more intel/info received feeling

c: interactive, makes you feel like you're contributing to the war effort apart from sinking all those ships, good for immersion

d: gives you a reason to visit other places than the general convoy/shipping lanes to see what might be going on...always nice to detour a bit


on a side note, the GWX team seems to have noticed our little effort and it seems that they may have something to say about "tanker alley" especially, so it'd be wise to consider some of the data outdated when GWX 1.04 is released

[GoldenRivet]

The way I understand it, Spy Sat is more or less a cheat , which eliminates the realism of the period.

Your project is the gathering of intelligence just like it would have been done in WWII and is the result of indidual player's efforts. Indeed, it adds realism to the sim. :up:

thats right.... spy sat mod is a cheat IMHO

in ww2 if a ship or aircraft sent you a contact report of a "Ship sighted" you could spend hours intercepting it only to find out that it was a friendly or a neutral ship!

thats the thing - intelligence is never 100%

[Canovaro]

yes it's worth finishing, looks real good so far besides, the spysat mod feels a lot like cheating :-? whereas this project is :

a : community based, so all the info is gathered by your co-kaleuns, gives it a genuine feeling. as well as being something that can help in maintaining said community

b: always incomplete, so no stuff like spysat where you can flawlessly home in on a particular convoy. gives a more intel/info received feeling

c: interactive, makes you feel like you're contributing to the war effort apart from sinking all those ships, good for immersion

d: gives you a reason to visit other places than the general convoy/shipping lanes to see what might be going on...always nice to detour a bit

100% agreed:up:
And it's nice to see your own name between all those contact reports.


on a side note, the GWX team seems to have noticed our little effort and it seems that they may have something to say about "tanker alley" especially, so it'd be wise to consider some of the data outdated when GWX 1.04 is released

Yes I read that. Thanks for noting that anyway! Have to think about waiting for 1.04...
GWX gurus, is that necessary? Will 104 change the travelling/frequency?
I'll bet they won't tell. :lol:

[Canovaro]

...You might want to consider the work it'll involve for you though :yep:

We'll see how popular it will become.


If I had to choose (and I stress, I don't use any) I would go for the spysat option (my son does anyhow) :lol:

I suppose it depends in what you're looking for.
The spysat mod gives 100% accurate info for the patrol you're currently in, while the hunting grounds project gives general info reported by the community.

[Canovaro]

Intelligence map will be finished! :arrgh!:

Intelligence project will also accept and return Enigma coded messages! :rock:

[Brag]

Good show, Canovaro,
This will add a new dimension to SH III. A "Real" BDU department. :D

[Telgriff]

Good show, Canovaro,
This will add a new dimension to SH III. A "Real" BDU department. :D

I agree, it is far and beyond the Spysat mod. Its essentially a BDU being generated by fellow kaluens!

[Canovaro]

I think I'll make it a bit more BDU'ish then...:hmm:

Some new ideas are born :smug:

[Mueller72]

I think "SH3Gen" is a good tool to give a little bit info without being a cheat like "spysat". I only use it a start of my patrol so it is a snapshot of the current situation i could have gathered from other captains or my commander.

Plus it adds nice texts to my captains log. For me its the perfect add to GWX and SH3Cmdr.

Here is the link:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88438&highlight=sh3gen

Nevertheless your efforts might be worth cause you can give diffuse info for the whole patrol without being a cheat. Nice idea!

[GlobalExplorer]

Canovaro
This is a brilliant idea! I wonder why no one has come up with it before ..

But I also see many problems .. the biggest ones are:

how to get the info into the game ..

exiting the game is something most people only want to do under the extreme most circumstances ..

and last, it is probably too late, now that only the hardcore people play SHIII .. on the other hand, those might be the ones most willing to participate !

Good luck sir,

GE

[Canovaro]

Canovaro
This is a brilliant idea! I wonder why no one has come up with it before ..

But I also see many problems .. the biggest ones are:

how to get the info into the game ..

exiting the game is something most people only want to do under the extreme most circumstances ..


I've thought about that.
There will be (are) printable forms available for download, so every player can, if he prefers this, make notes on them and send the messages later en masse.


and last, it is probably too late, now that only the hardcore people play SHIII .. on the other hand, those might be the ones most willing to participate !

Good luck sir,

GE

Thanks. But too late?...it's never too late! The war is not over yet, we can still win! So stop making negative propaganda, and get in your u-boat! Doenitz expects contact reports asap!
:lol:
Seriously: you may be right, but there are new ppl visiting this forums every day, so I don't think it's too late. To be honoust: if only three ppl would be interested, I would still make it.


update: It's turning more into a BDU department now. Can't wait to get started, but it's a lot of work.

[KeptinCranky]

It's good to see you moving forward, I'm still gathering info here and there, mostly in the med

the downside is that some of the targets I find are ridiculously juicy, I mean, 2 Cunard Liners and one escort going 7kts :o that's just too easy.... 100k patrol right there...

will update the happy hunting grounds thread with info, I can also compile all my contact reports by date and area and whatnot in an Excel document at some point.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

Canovaro

.... exiting the game is something most people only want to do under the extreme most circumstances ....



this can be helped with playing the game in window mode instead of fullscreen...

when i play SH3 in window mode i also search the web and such... i have no problems with searching the web while looking at SH3... and if a ship is spotted i continue playing...


@ Canovaro: i wanted to PM this one but il ask it here... what if i can give some info for harbour raiders ? like i used to do in the 'happy hunting ground' thread ?

would it be put in to ?

anyway... seeing forward to the completed version.

its good to work for you :up: :rock:

[Canovaro]

Canovaro

.... exiting the game is something most people only want to do under the extreme most circumstances ....


this can be helped with playing the game in window mode instead of fullscreen...

when i play SH3 in window mode i also search the web and such... i have no problems with searching the web while looking at SH3... and if a ship is spotted i continue playing...

That's a good idea, thanks fot the tip, didn't think of the window mode.


@ Canovaro: i wanted to PM this one but il ask it here... what if i can give some info for harbour raiders ? like i used to do in the 'happy hunting ground' thread ?

would it be put in to ?

anyway... seeing forward to the completed version.

its good to work for you :up: :rock:
hah thanks

To be honest, I don't think there are so many daredevils around like you and Prien. ATM I don't see how that could be done on the map, but there may be another section like "BdU harbour intelligence department" or something in the future. :hmm:

[Canovaro]

It's good to see you moving forward, I'm still gathering info here and there, mostly in the med

the downside is that some of the targets I find are ridiculously juicy, I mean, 2 Cunard Liners and one escort going 7kts :o that's just too easy.... 100k patrol right there...

will update the happy hunting grounds thread with info, I can also compile all my contact reports by date and area and whatnot in an Excel document at some point.
I see you're having a little fun in the med.
BdU will be pleased to receive Excel sheets or txt files, but I have to warn you that the med is not included in the scope of the project. One of the reasons you mentioned yourself: too crowded there.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

hah thanks

To be honest, I don't think there are so many daredevils around like you and Prien. ATM I don't see how that could be done on the map, but there may be another section like "BdU harbour intelligence depertment" or something in the future. :hmm:


il be the first to test this department i presume :arrgh!:
and will be verry clear if i used GWX or WAC...

:hmm: mayby i could become chief of this department... but then again i have give command of U-124 on someone else and get a desk job :cry:

[GlobalExplorer]

this can be helped with playing the game in window mode instead of fullscreen...

when i play SH3 in window mode i also search the web and such... i have no problems with searching the web while looking at SH3... and if a ship is spotted i continue playing...


One lesson I learned from Sh3Gen is that in order to be 100% adopted by the community a program must install and integrate without any thinking on the users part - otherwise everybody who is wary of technical stuff will tell you something like "I like your app but I'd rather wait for a version that comes without XY" - which of course you cant deliver if XY is there by design. so my advice is to avoid anything like that while you are still in the design stages.

Conclusion => if it has to be run windowed, there will be people who use your program, but not too many. this is not to criticize your work, just an experience I have already made, so you might not need to make the same mistake.

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

this can be helped with playing the game in window mode instead of fullscreen...

when i play SH3 in window mode i also search the web and such... i have no problems with searching the web while looking at SH3... and if a ship is spotted i continue playing...


One lesson I learned from Sh3Gen is that in order to be 100% adopted by the community a program must install and integrate without any thinking on the users part - otherwise everybody who is wary of technical stuff will tell you something like "I like your app but I'd rather wait for a version that comes without XY" - which of course you cant deliver if XY is there by design. so my advice is to avoid anything like that while you are still in the design stages.

Conclusion => if it has to be run windowed, there will be people who use your program, but not too many. this is not to criticize your work, just an experience I have already made, so you might not need to make the same mistake.

dont realy understand :-?

[GlobalExplorer]

Nix verstehen?

Well dont know if I can say it any other way. Just that I personally would not write another program that requires Alt-Tab - because most people are too scared of it.

[Canovaro]

GlobalExplorer, I agree with you that it might be to much asking of some players. But imo it's still worth it. We'll see, atm BdU is getting more messages than expected, and me too am enjoying it a lot. So we'll see if it grows further.
Thanks for sharing your ideas and experience.

[JohnnyBlaze]

[Kaleu. Jochen Mohr]

when i play SH3 in window mode i also search the web and such... i have no problems with searching the web while looking at SH3... and if a ship is spotted i continue playing...





If only we could hear the game sounds when SH3 is running on the background. Had a few close calls when I've missed the "we're under attack" warning.


And this project sounds very interesting, indeed. I could take a few notes on contacts I encounter. Tho I've been sailing for a week now without a contact with the enemy..

Johnny