My Verdict

[STEED]

Well My PC died so it went in for repair and upgrades for SH4 I picked up a second hand copy from a friend who said "Good luck and within a week you will sell it or bin it." So as you can see he was not happy, I patched it will 1.2 only anyway my verdict on Sh4 and lets puts the eye candy to one side and get to the point. Some of the interface I did not like and when I get minor damage which would not technically sink me but my boat goes into a death dive and good night.

Crew management sucks what the heck dose those (I,II,III) positions means and I have to save the campaign myself or I will loose it, this looks like a rush job to me. This game should never had come out for a minimum of another six months.

PS: Please ubi fix it. This game has potential to be a good game.

[MaxT.dk]

Another one... You forgot to ask for 1.3 patch as the other dozens of threads already did :roll:

[TheBrauerHour]

Honestly I don't think people give the new crew management system a chance. I, II & III are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd watchs or shifts. See, it is broken by watch cycles so you don't have to waste your time manually rotating people in your sub due to fatigue. This also lets you put a good balance of people on each watch. If you see trouble, then call battlestations, and the entire boat shows dark grey. That means the whole crew is up out of their bunks and at stations.

The system is really a good system. I am not going to get into a comparison with SHIII because SHIII manages in a different way. Both are good as I play both.

Hope that is helpful!

[STEED]

Honestly I don't think people give the new crew management system a chance. I, II & III are your 1st, 2nd and 3rd watchs or shifts. See, it is broken by watch cycles so you don't have to waste your time manually rotating people in your sub due to fatigue.

Thanks for that bit of info, why the heck the guide book could not me that and about 20 other things I don't know.

But I am still getting sick of my boat going into a death dive to the bottom of the sea which is starting to put me off playing this game, another thing what about this patrol area business? I stopped and sat on the marker for a few days I also sailed around the marker and through it for a few days and still the patrol is incomplete. I had no trouble dropping the spy off to his location as that came up complete.

[Major Johnson]

why the heck the guide book could not me that and about 20 other things I don't know.[Quote]

It's the majority opinion that the manual is much to be desired. Thank God for everyone in this forum sharing all their tidbits.

[Quote]what about this patrol area business? I stopped and sat on the marker for a few days I also sailed around the marker and through it for a few days and still the patrol is incomplete.

I have a working theory about this too. I'm wondering if it's tied in with sending a status report?? How can the home base know where you are if you don't tell them?? In my current mission I was assigned to one patrol area, while cruising out there, I got into the habit of sending a daily status message. When I got the patrol area it immediately grayed out, then I got sent to another patrol area and it didn't go grey. But I realized that I hadn't been sending any reports like I was. Somewhere between here and there, I hit the escape key to save/end the game and it said that patrol area was complete! I'm thinking I must have sent off a message, which does report your position. A possibility??

[STEED]

I have a working theory about this too. I'm wondering if it's tied in with sending a status report??

In the case of dropping the spy off I came close to the marker near shore and I was asked to launched the boat for the spy which I said yes and indeed the marker turned gray. In the case of patrols I have sent status reports but what I will try out is to send more of them and see how this works out.

[orangenee]

I'm in the habit of sending a status report after an engagement, usually after a months game time it registers as complete if I've sunk so many ships. They either let you come home or send you to another place, I think it also depends on how many torps you have left as well.

[Powerthighs]

what about this patrol area business? I stopped and sat on the marker for a few days I also sailed around the marker and through it for a few days and still the patrol is incomplete.
Have you read this thread?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111509&highlight=Mission+Guide

I keep my radius to within 50nm though.

Note that Patrol mission requires you stay within a certain radius for 48 hrs. The Sink mission requires that you report to the area then go anywhere and sink 10,000 tons.

Following these rules I haven't ever had any problems.

[STEED]

Well more reports was a no go and I have been close to the marker for three to four days. I shall give it another go by the way the campaign dose not seem to save its self when I get back to port as I lost my first one, the only way around it is for me to save the game then all is well. :-?

[joea]

Steed, Beeery posted a "How to complete a mission" guide, very useful apparently and you actually have to send messages to HQ now. I tired SHIV briefly but my comp can't run it. Once you figure out crew and damage management I think it's better than SHIII (and once UBI fix the kinks left). TDC is cool too.

[NefariousKoel]

I actually think the crew management and interface is a huge leap over SH3.

No more having to drag the bugged guys stuck in the electric room back to diesels when surfacing. No more having to stop TC and check crew fatigue and micromanage that mess.

As for interface, I couldn't stand having to click on some dude's picture and then click on a button above him, and then yet another button in a list that pops up over that. One click on a symbol and the commands are right below. Although a couple are missing atm. :shifty: The TDC is great now that I can input all the manual inputs all while looking through the scope. No more switching to the attack screen and back all the time.

[STEED]

I cracked the patrol issue it looks like five days before the patrol star goes gray while we are on this subject I got a second one and did that after which I was down to one torp and then another patrol area popped up. :huh: No thanks with one torp left my crew done there bit, do this patrol markers just keep popping up?

Anyway I don't need to worry for my next patrol it's looks like it's snapshot time, better read the guide that was posted see how I do.

Thanks all for your help. :yep:

[codmander]

sh4 game is eye candy crud :88) sh3 is a great subsim :up: if your not happy with sh4 stick with the -knotzees- they knew how to build a better sub anyway:hmm:

[NefariousKoel]

I cracked the patrol issue it looks like five days before the patrol star goes gray while we are on this subject I got a second one and did that after which I was down to one torp and then another patrol area popped up. :huh: No thanks with one torp left my crew done there bit, do this patrol markers just keep popping up?

Anyway I don't need to worry for my next patrol it's looks like it's snapshot time, better read the guide that was posted see how I do.

Thanks all for your help. :yep:
Your patrol shouldn't have taken 5 days to complete. I always put a 60nm/90km circle around the patrol icon and stay within that for 48 hours. Completed every time!:rock:


You might be continually given further missions when you report in after completing your current one. Ultimately, it's up to you if you think it possible to complete or head back to base. If I had 1 fish left, and it was a photo mission, I'd probably pass since it's likely gonna involve getting in shallow water crawling with enemy Destroyers. Can't dive past Peri depth in a bad situation... better have plenty weapons.

I don't think you get penalized if you've finished your first mission on a patrol. After that, it's just extra Renown.:cool:

Also.. note that if you want to enable Anti-Aliasing (which I suggest you do), you'll have to manually set it in your video settings in Windows. It's not a bad idea putting some mods in either. Real Fleet Boat and Trigger Maru are the two current mod packs. Try them both and see which you like the best. They have fixes for certain things to boot. I prefer much of TM myself, since my enemy Destroyers seemed way too tame with stock.

[Reaves]

I just submerge and stop all engines once I reach the patrol zone. Time compression eventually causes mission complete.

The problem is you need to stay within a certain area for the 24 hours (i think it's 24) and if you leave that zone after 12 hours you need to start all over again. :know:

[StandingCow]

I liked the crew management system.

If they took the best parts of SH3 (with GWX) and SH4... man would that be a sweet game! :)

[Iron Budokan]

I also give SH4 a thumbs up on the crew management. It's neatly done, imo.

[Target]

I had problems completing the patrol assignment until I downloaded the Flavor to Taste mod. Now I only need to be within roughly 50-100nm of the star I've met the patrol area requirements.

[GTHammer]

I cracked the patrol issue it looks like five days before the patrol star goes gray while we are on this subject I got a second one and did that after which I was down to one torp and then another patrol area popped up. :huh: No thanks with one torp left my crew done there bit, do this patrol markers just keep popping up?

If you feel like continuing on with your missions but are out of ammo, go to a viable harbor/base(Designated with a blue anchor on your nav map) and refit. This reloads you up with everything and fixes damage. If you already knew this, my bad.

[Furia]

I do not have this Sim,and this is the first Naval Sim released since the Comodore times I have not bought but for me that Ubisoft is completely disregarding the possibility of having decent Multiplayer combats that is Subs vs escorts and give this ridiculous "Board like" game for destroyers to fight subs was the final drop.
if they think the sales are not enough they must think why a lot of people that bought SH2/DC saga started to lose interest with SH III and have not even bought SHIV

When we had real MP combats between escorts and subs the comunity was alive, we had fleets, tournaments, online activity.

SHIII Multiplayer was pathetic and SHIV MP is an offence.

I have been supporting and buying Naval games including supporting with donations Projekt Messerwetzer and other Subsim projects.

Ubisoft is not listening, not even supporting properly the customers that bought this basically handicaped single player game by not even fixing the bugs. :down:
I feel sad having made this post and I feel sad by not having a good naval sim to have interesting and exciting Naval Combats like the ones we had on the past playing SHII vs DC.
You cannot expect have succesful sales in 2007 relasing a sim with not a good MP capability.
Do not blame that the Naval market is small. The Naval "market" is enthusiastic, loyal and commited to a sim provided you listen to the comunity.

[joea]

SH2 and DC were deeply flawed games mate, plus they are making a 1.3 patch.

[Furia]

SH2 and DC were deeply flawed games mate, plus they are making a 1.3 patch.

Of course they were bugged games, this is why we had to make the mods, but besides this we had COUNTLESS hours of Multiplayer gamming human vs human. Fleet Tournament, Subsim Tournaments....................................... .....
No AI can match human behaviour on MP game.
SH IV has great graphics but this is all, have same or more bugs than SHII and DC at their release and no MP possibilities.
Of course if you just enjoy sinking dumb escorts and harmless merchies that would be just fine but if you like some realism... well..... sorry
it still does not fill my expectations

[NefariousKoel]

My multiplayer experience with SH2 & DC consisted of this:

Destroyer swerving, sub staying a periscope depth the whole time and just shooting torps at the oncoming destroyer at point blank range. :roll:

The only time it didn't was when I dove and tried to evade. That was pretty fun but I never saw anyone else doing it in a sub. Bleh.

[STEED]

Just to let everyone know my first two photo reckons went well, I hope the boss did not throw a fit after my snap shop of a passenger ship I sunk it.

While I am on the subject do you pick up extra renown for more pictures of other ships in port?

[Sailor Steve]

[SH IV has great graphics but this is all, have same or more bugs than SHII and DC at their release and no MP possibilities.
I disagree, but only because lack of a real career mode was the worst bug of all and can never be fixed. I remember two years ago when at least one member claimed that SH3 was just as bad as SH2. I gave him the same answer.

[Furia]

So no Career mode, no real MP (I would not call the avalaible MP a real MP combat)
What does this game have better other than graphics which is normal considereing how the graphic engines have changed the last years?

I welcome any Naval sim Steve, but I think it is a pity they are neglecting such basic things on new games. Must be some kind of marketing, but this marketing is not making many of us happy.
Now imagine this game, this very one, with a true and realistic career mode and a Multiplayer possibility versus a destroyer Command counterpart.
Imagine the possibilities.
I am not asking for something that have not already been done on the past.

[AVGWarhawk]

So no Career mode, no real MP (I would not call the avalaible MP a real MP combat)
What does this game have better other than graphics which is normal considereing how the graphic engines have changed the last years?

I welcome any Naval sim Steve, but I think it is a pity they are neglecting such basic things on new games. Must be some kind of marketing, but this marketing is not making many of us happy.
Now imagine this game, this very one, with a true and realistic career mode and a Multiplayer possibility versus a destroyer Command counterpart.
Imagine the possibilities.
I am not asking for something that have not already been done on the past.
I can imagine the possibilites but you have to imagine what the market is looking for as a whole. I'm thinking the market is looking for a zoom around blast them up game. Which in part SH4 is. I would say as a whole, the market is not looking for hardcore type simulations with all fronts represented. They are looking for the Sims, Warhammer online type games. This is how it looks to me at the moment.

What does this game have other than graphics? Playability and immersivness if you let it. I always felt it took some imagination to play any of the SH series. This one is no different. I also believe it is best played as single player and not MP. The action is much to slow as compared to say IL2 MP. IMHO.

[Furia]

I agree with you on most points, this is a marketing decision. The swifted the target marekt. Before such sims were intended to the hardcore comunity and adding a entry level to allow new people to get the ropes of the "naval warfare".
Now they prefer to aim for a more "general" market using more candy eyes stuff.
Well whatever the reason they have lost me as customer because I am not buying SH IV the way it is now.

And lets be honnest, SP on the Pacific is not really a challenge.
Japanese escorts did not had a decente radar if they even had any and their sonar suits suck. While the british had airplanes with radar the Japanese had not..........On real life US subs had the upper hand all the time above the Japanese Navy. Now translate this to AI escorts.

If the Allied AI escorts in SHIII that were supposed to be the best ASW platforms of the moment with the latest ASW stuff can be confortably deal with, I wonder how you do not find boring SP in the Pacific warfare.
Of course I understand our US colleagues that have the joy of driving a US boat instad a German one. but I guess they miss a real good Career mode as well.

Some people think normal to come from a patrol having sunk 25 ships, bus since I am not of this kind,I was looking forward for a good MP capability where human player can level off.
Graphic and cinematics are good and welcomed but on my case that was not enough.

Maybe I may look like the guy just bitching the "beloved sim" and giving nothing possitive but I just say that such a leading software company as Ubisoft that had previous experience on SHII vs DC should had not neglected this "extra" option.

Anyway and honnestly I wish you guys have a good time with this SP sim and the sales are good enough to make the next of the saga include a sub vs surface real MP (Although they promised the same by SHIII)

[AVGWarhawk]

I agree with you on most points, this is a marketing decision. The swifted the target marekt. Before such sims were intended to the hardcore comunity and adding a entry level to allow new people to get the ropes of the "naval warfare".
Now they prefer to aim for a more "general" market using more candy eyes stuff.
Well whatever the reason they have lost me as customer because I am not buying SH IV the way it is now.


I do not agree that before such sims were created for the hardcore but have changed over time to simplfy it for a larger market. Janes WWII Combat, CFS1,2,3, IL2, all have simplfied modes for those that want to learn it. The SH series have simple modes and more simulation like modes. It is unfortunate however that we can not have an option for kick butt AI. Just options for submarine to make it more simulation like. There is a bit more than eye candy and I would dare say if you have not purchased the game and played, I have to take your view on it with a grain of salt. It would be best to delve into the game for a better assessment of it. There is a mix of great DD and bad DD. The great DD you encounter drop DC with precision. It is a nice mixed bag but you should encounter more great DD IMHO.


And lets be honnest, SP on the Pacific is not really a challenge.
Japanese escorts did not had a decente radar if they even had any and their sonar suits suck. While the british had airplanes with radar the Japanese had not..........On real life US subs had the upper hand all the time above the Japanese Navy. Now translate this to AI escorts.


Sure, the Japanese were far behind with radar/sonar development but the ASW vessels did not all suck. Ask the 52 subs on eternal patrol. Yes, the US subs had the upper hand for sure, you asked to translate this to he AI escort, I believe they have then at this juncture. The US subs in the game have the upper hand.


If the Allied AI escorts in SHIII that were supposed to be the best ASW platforms of the moment with the latest ASW stuff can be confortably deal with, I wonder how you do not find boring SP in the Pacific warfare.
Of course I understand our US colleagues that have the joy of driving a US boat instad a German one. but I guess they miss a real good Career mode as well.


I'm not certain how you surmise that that the AI DD in SH3 are comfortable to deal with unless you are playing the vanilla version of the game. All the major mods dealt with that issue and all created nasty DD and very effective DD. When GWX showed up for SH3, there was riot over the very good DD to the point a thread was started and stickied so people could figure out how to handle them. The GWX guys were quite clever with their adjustment to the AI. The DD reaction was dead on. It was years in the making of the excellent major mods, SH4 is a babe in the woods, give it time and all the guys who dig making mods will handle SH4 in such the same way. Study the Pacific, read about it, translate it into the game.


Some people think normal to come from a patrol having sunk 25 ships, bus since I am not of this kind,I was looking forward for a good MP capability where human player can level off.
Graphic and cinematics are good and welcomed but on my case that was not enough.



Some people do believe sinking 25 vessels is normal only because they have not read the history of the subs. These are the people that the marketers target because there are more of them as paying customers who like to speed around the oceans blasting everything in sight. This is a great time for them and the explosions are great, tonnage out the wazoo, more renown and upgrades!!! Fun times and this is how they like to play it. These are also the folks that like to buy grand theft auto. Then there is you and I that prefer the realism and more realistic tonnage, AI reaction, hardcore. Currently, like the other in this series, we wait for the modders to do their work for the love of realism.



Maybe I may look like the guy just bitching the "beloved sim" and giving nothing possitive but I just say that such a leading software company as Ubisoft that had previous experience on SHII vs DC should had not neglected this "extra" option.


You are entitled to your opinion of the game but in all honesty, without playing it, your assessment is a bit biased as a result. The only thing I see negelected here is the fact that the game was released in the unfinished state. UBI has listened and implemented features that players asked for with SH3. We asked for better crew management, it was done, for example. I no longer spend time juggling crew. Better, more realistic damage control, UBI listened and created one but it needs a fix...basically a hull % damage displayed and fix the cannon/AA that does not seem to get repaired. I like the damage control configuration now, furthermore, the damage repair time is more realistic.




Anyway and honnestly I wish you guys have a good time with this SP sim and the sales are good enough to make the next of the saga include a sub vs surface real MP (Although they promised the same by SHIII)
__________________



Well, hey, thanks....I'm having a ball with the game in the vanilla version! I'm not betting on the next saga so I'm putting my efforts into SH4. As far as MP, this game has it but as a result of rushed sales, the time was not put into it. Such is life. As I stated above, my thinking is submarine MP just takes so much time and does not lend itself to fun filled action as say a flight sim of fighter aircraft. IMHO, sub sims are single player and require a good imagination for great game play. BTW, if you are wanting to have the next saga and sales are good enough for it to be considered, go out and buy the game. Be a part of the solution.